I, Tonya

[Winnipeg]

Carolina needs to get rid of the green unitard.

The picture of Tanya and Nancy at a Halloween party.......looks like they do not have their skate guards on.

 

[berthesghost]

I guess we’re talking in general terms, because Jill Trenary is only a year older than Midori and Nancy, so I don’t think age had much to do with their results pre and post figures.

I also think Oksana and Tara turning pro at 15 and ever Kristi not going for a 2nd Olys, vs Caro and Maria still going at 30 has a lot to do with there being opportunities in the 90s that simply don’t exist anymore.

On a surface level I get Tonya’s anger at being cut out of all that 90s pro dosh, but it’s 2018: even if she was reinstated now it’s not like dick’s inviting her to Lansing. The well done run dry.

 

[Vagabond]

However, of the ladies who were competing in the 1980s with school figures, the goal seemed to be to get triple salchow and triple toe and maybe one other triple if you were a good jumper and otherwise aim to be well-rounded in other skills especially figures.

So most skaters who were already over 20 ca. 1990-91 had no incentive to continue with two or three triples. The younger girls coming on the scene ca. 1993-95 had been training as many triples as possible since juniors or before.

Retiring at the age of about twenty or so was the norm for female figure skaters even before the elimination of Compulsories. It might have hastened the departure of a few skaters who would otherwise have stayed on until the 1992 Olympics, but it didn't fundamentally change the length of elite skaters' careers.

 

[pixie cut]

I think you mean Landover. That building was closed, then reopened, then demolished years ago. Although the idea of Tonya Harding waiting for her invite does make me laugh.

Female skaters didn't stop turning pro at 20ish because of the end of compulsory figures. They stopped because the ISU threw money at them in prize money. Those early years of the Grand Prix, there was a lot of prize money. In addition to the GP, Worlds, Europeans and 4 Continents, there were several pro-ams/opens per season.

What motivation did Kristi have to keep pounding her body, training and competing? She had a lucrative deal with Stars on Ice plus pro competitions. The ISU wanted to kill pro skating and they did. Sad. Those World Pro shows on Super Bowl weekend used to be amazing.

 

[Yazmeen]

For the uninitiated to Tank McNamara, the "Sports Jerk of the Year" award is actually done by votes of fans of the comic strip. The reigning winner is Ryan Lochte for 2016. I'm betting on LaVar Ball this year (Yes, Dr. Nasser is far worse, but they usually don't allow sport folks in who commit major crimes - a la Jerry Sandusky).

http://www.gocomics.com/tankmcnamara?ct=v&cti=1497942

 

[Yazmeen]

Oops, double post.

 

[MacMadame]

I'm betting on LaVar Ball this year.

http://www.gocomics.com/tankmcnamara?ct=v&cti=1497942

I agree with the commenter. Nassar is a shoe-in.

 

[alj5]

Carolina needs to get rid of the green unitard.

I love the idea of a green unitard for her number. However it's an odd shade of green/chartreuse and the crotch area just looks weird.

 

[Karina1974]

Nancy's looks were one of the reason she became touted as the "ice princess" and led to a lot of her endorsements. She also medalled with a lot of poor free skates (93 nats, 93 worlds, 92 Olympics (Tonya really should of got the bronze there), 92 worlds, 93 pro-am) and was given a lot of breaks because the usfs liked the way she looked. Nancy always came across as phony to me. I did see her live once (not by choice , she just happened to be on the winter coi tour that year with other pros) and Hamill was much older and skated much faster).

Tonya really was a much better skater than Nancy- too bad that wasn't all that mattered. Tonya was the better jumper, better spinner (which covers 6 of the required 8(at the time) elements in the short), had a lot more speed and power, could do the spiral without having to hold her leg, had an awesome ina bauer, and was more musical. She was inconsistent, and wasn't feminine (but that should not have mattered).

Nancy was very slow, had to hold her leg on the spiral, she did have a true lutz and was a decent jumper , her spins were poor, she came across as snooty and entitled, her footwork was so-so , her costumes were elegant but she also had a top name designer giving them to her, and the Scotvolds had more political clout with the usfsa and the judges than Rawlinson or Teachman did.

Nancy finished FIFTH at 1993 World's.

 

[alj5]

Nancy finished FIFTH at 1993 World's.

Technically she won the gold small medal for the SP..... ;-)

 

[berthesghost]

Technically she won the gold small medal for the SP..... ;-)

Correction: Vera Wang’s shocking pink costume won the sp, Nancy just happened to be there to steal what was rightfully Tonya’s

 

[jenniferlyon]

... Well, it certainly was not the PTB in US Figure Skating for Tara ... Apparently US Figure Skating basically said to Tara, "You have your gold medal. You can go now."

I wonder how much of that was because of Tara and how much was because they didn't want to deal with her mother?

 

[vesperholly]

I also think Oksana and Tara turning pro at 15 and ever Kristi not going for a 2nd Olys, vs Caro and Maria still going at 30 has a lot to do with there being opportunities in the 90s that simply don’t exist anymore.

Well all three of those who got out quickly had won the Olympics, and Kostner and Butyrskaya don't have Olympic golds. Sotnikova couldn't even keep going after winning the Olympics, though she gave it the good college try.

It used to be that skaters couldn't wait to turn pro and cash in their chips; now no one ever retires because competitive skating is where the money is.

 

[jenniferlyon]

Well all three of those who got out quickly had won the Olympics, and Kostner and Butyrskaya don't have Olympic golds. Sotnikova couldn't even keep going after winning the Olympics, though she gave it the good college try.

It used to be that skaters couldn't wait to turn pro and cash in their chips; now no one ever retires because competitive skating is where the money is.

I recently saw a photo on Twitter of Sotnikova skating in one of Evgeny Plushenko's ice shows. I assume this appearance wasn't a one-off and that she's getting work in Russia.

 

[vesperholly]

I recently saw a photo on Twitter of Sotnikova skating in one of Evgeny Plushenko's ice shows. I assume this appearance wasn't a one-off and that she's getting work in Russia.

I meant Sotnikova couldn't keep going with competitive skating. Great that she's getting pro skating work I follow Volosozhar and Trankov on Instagram and they are always doing different skating shows.

 

[Yazmeen]

I wonder how much of that was because of Tara and how much was because they didn't want to deal with her mother?

Tara skipped out on Worlds and turned pro 2 months after the Olympics. She also had a $1.2 million contract with USFS to appear in pro-am events after the Olympics and she bolted on it, refusing to do any events that were not for just pro skaters. It was believed that Team Tara wanted nothing to do with her ever competing against Michelle again, lest she lose and "tarnish" her OGM in any way. Let's just say USFS was not lacking reason to be less than thrilled with her.

 

[Inessence]

With the immense Oly pressure off Michelle would wipe the floor with Tara.

 

[VGThuy]

So I saw I, Tonya and, in short, I didn't like it and that was apart from the skating-related stuff that annoyed me. I really think there was a disconnection with the style of the film they made with its incessantly placed soundtrack and the material they actually had. If I wanted campy comedy I would watch Julie Brown's parody. If I wanted something that got into the real Tonya's psyche and events that led to the incident, I would watch that TV movie and the great documentary Sharp Edges and all other interview and analysis material out there of Tonya. Read below if you want more of my thoughts.

For those who say this movie presented a balanced portrayal, I don't agree. It really was a heavy-handed take at Tonya the innocent victim with on-the-nose dialogue and monologues in case you missed what they were going for. I know the movie is called I, Tonya so of course it'll have that aspect, I just don't think people should pretend this is supposed to be a balanced portrayal. I think I was annoyed how every scene was set up to make Tonya a victim of other people including the shoe lace incident. I also rolled my eyes when Tonya said "it was like I was abused again...by you...by all of you." Real subtle writing there totally believable that Tonya would put it in those words.

Also, for a movie that's supposed to be another look at how the media and we all treat people who feel are of a lower class than us, other than Tonya, the filmmakers here did not treat the other characters of Tonya's Portland with the same care or sensitivity that they treated her. I felt uncomfortable with the way Eckhardt was played for laughs when in this film version it's clear he had some sort of psychological disorder. I felt the film was laughing at the other characters, and after years of Connie Chung, Brennan, that FBI guy, etc. making fun of the squad who planned this attack as bumbling idiots, this film just added to that.

One thing I think the film did well, if I separate how it was only used in this film to try to explain why Tonya didn't go to the authorities after the whack (which surprisingly the film didn't do in a heavy-handed way), is show the cycle of abuse and how victims end up coming back to their abusers. The cop stop scene was very well done in that respect IMO.

Janney I felt was good for what she was going for but I think there was a better, more nuanced portrayal than the two-tone performance she gave here. I think her LaVona was a little too knowing and aware that she was a monster. I think the real LaVona is so damaged that she doesn't always quite know what a manipulative, abusive mother and person she is though I'm sure there are times when she did know. I don't think Margot Robbie did much of anything except learn how to skate and maybe had like two very good scenes. Sebastian Stan gave what I think is the best performance of the film but the writers who seemed like made the screenplay from both Tonya and Jeff's interviews really gave Tonya's POV much more weight than Jeff's (we don't see Jeff during the action saying "I never did this" the way Tonya got to). Julianne Nicholson's Diane was such a caricature (well everyone other than Tonya and Jeff to a smaller extent is).

Btw, I see why some are confused about thinking Tonya had a choice of jail time or a lifetime ban after seeing this movie. Her crying in the courtroom begging to take the jail time NEVER happened. The stipulation of the plea deal was well known in advance and Tonya knew what she was accepting before she took it. All of the terms have to be agreed-upon by the state and defendant and the judge has to approve it. She may had to give up her membership, but the lifetime ban was a wholly separate action taken by the USFS not court ordered (I doubt it had jurisdiction to do so).

 

[Tinami Amori]

[QUOTE="VIETgrlTerifa, post: 5263202, member: 4085"..... ]For those who say this movie presented a balanced portrayal, I don't agree.....[/QUOTE]
Thanks! very interesting recap. i know the real story in bits, never followed it in detail, but some portrayals seemed odd to me as well.

 

[Yazmeen]

VIETgirlTERIFA: Very much appreciate your review. I liked the film more than you did, but I think you hit a lot of key points about it that are spot on.

I wrote my review a while earlier and I didn't want to give away too much for those who hadn't seen it, but I am definitely with you on the courtroom scene. That courtroom outburst DEFINITELY didn't happen - I clearly remember seeing Tonya on TV being very meek and quiet as her sentence was handed down. Now, that's possibly what was in her head when she realized she was being banned from USFS for life prior to her sentencing, but to play it as though the judge handed that down and she was only made aware of it at that time is false, deceptive, and just plain WRONG. I realize it's a movie and they have the right to tell the story they way they want, but if skating fans here got confused about whether or not she actually had a choice between jail or the sentence given, imagine what the non-skating fans who see the movie will think?

And that part about how all of "us" abused her. too:

Here's some FACTS about what happened in the courtroom that day - note that it states that Tonya seemed very controlled and almost sheepish. And especially for the Tonya apologists who are so insistent they they just KNOW she didn't have any involvement beyond what she plead to: After the hearing, Deputy Dist. Atty. Norm Frink said there was "substantial evidence to support Ms. Harding's involvement prior to the assault. She's not going to plead guilty to it, but I think the facts speak for themselves," he said. The prosecution accepted the plea agreement because of the potentially large cost of a trial, he said."

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-03-17/news/mn-35216_1_figure-skating-team

 

[LarrySK8]

That courtroom outburst DEFINITELY didn't happen

This was an apparent plot device to simplify the "legal ramifications" and not make the audience sit through two different decisions by two different bodies (FBI/USFS) and have to explain why one was one punishment, the other a strip of titles and a ban. It was probably too confusing to write up. It simplifies her response to the punishments also. For the audience, most of whom do not know what we all know.

Other productions have melded different people into one character to advance the plot and simplify the film(s). Same here. I have no problem with it as long as people know, "IT IS ONLY A MOVIE."

 

[LarrySK8]

I love the idea of a green unitard for her number. However it's an odd shade of green/chartreuse and the crotch area just looks weird.

It screams baggy camel-toe. Ew.

 

[Sasha is DIVINE]

So I finally got to see it the day before yesterday. I was really excited because I had heard so many good things, especially from skating fans!

Suffice to say I was extremely disappointed and underwhelmed. I thought the writing and film was like bad Movie of the Week quality, because it's really hard to make something great when the writing isn't there. All of the skating sequences in the film just made me want to see the actual performances instead which I find far more dramatic and fascinating. There were so many factual inaccuracies which really bugged me. I don't think they did a good job of telling the story. The Price of Gold documentary did a much better job.

Neither the script nor Margot Robbie really did justice by Tonya, who is such a complicated and compelling character. I think there are many more shades of gray to Tonya than shown here. Tonya's fierceness has always made it hard to see her as strictly being a victim which is how I think she's portrayed in I,T. Margot's performance was pretty uneven, although I think she along with everyone did the best with what they had to work with. I'd say the most impressive part of Margot's performance was her American accent and her ability to seemingly convincingly cry on cue. (I found the aforementioned courtroom scene pretty cringeworthy until Margot started crying which made it at least sort of an exercise in acting and not quite so bad.)

Sebastian Stan gave my favorite performance (well aside from Paul Walter Hauser who played Shawn Eckardt but he had a smaller role) as he was able to make Jeff Gillooly a three-dimensional and flawed but not irredeemable person. I'm glad Allison Janney is the favorite for the BSA Oscar, but more because I've enjoyed her entire career and body of work. I don't think her performance in this film is anything especially stellar, really. But her line about how the plot of the film was no longer focusing on her character or whatever (I can't remember exactly how she put it) was probably one of the funniest moments in the film.

The real-life snippets during the credits (starting with parts of Tonya's legendary free skate at 91 Nationals) might have been my favorite thing about the whole movie, which is decidedly, um, not good. And including those just shows how more interesting the real-life people were.

So I am surprised at how well the film has been received by skating fans because I almost felt embarrassed of it as a representation of my sport . But I'm happy it's been seemingly well-received by critics and the public and hopefully it brings some attention to figure skating, especially right before the Olympics.

 

[meggonzo]

I realize it's a movie and they have the right to tell the story they way they want, but if skating fans here got confused about whether or not she actually had a choice between jail or the sentence given, imagine what the non-skating fans who see the movie will think?

Will non-skating fans really care though? There already seems to be enough backlash about Tonya being at the Golden Globes. I think people will forget in a few months, and be on to the next thing.

 

[Inessence]

Real life is far more convoluted and complicated than a two-hour movie can accurately relay. I think the movie does a good job telling the heart of the story.

 

[LarrySK8]

because it's really hard to make something great when the writing isn't there.

I referenced it in my prior post a while back - the source material was "The Tonya Tapes," which was a very poorly written book. Poor source, poor screenplay. Imagine that!

 

[berthesghost]

This was an apparent plot device to simplify the "legal ramifications" and not make the audience sit through two different decisions by two different bodies (FBI/USFS) and have to explain why one was one punishment, the other a strip of titles and a ban. It was probably too confusing to write up. It simplifies her response to the punishments also. For the audience, most of whom do not know what we all know.

Other productions have melded different people into one character to advance the plot and simplify the film(s). Same here. I have no problem with it as long as people know, "IT IS ONLY A MOVIE."

Any other scene and I would agree with you but for me this rewriting of history is important because it’s central to the whole artistic concept of the movie. In real life, Tonya willingly agreed to a plea in order to avoid jail time. In the movie she is tricked, and starts screaming that she’d rather go to prison than be banned. It’s like doing a movie about the civil war where Lincoln agrees that individual states can determine if they continue slavery or not. It’s not a plot simplification, it’s an alternative fact made in order to support a flimsy theory ie. Tonya as victim.

 

[VGThuy]

Any other scene and I would agree with you but for me this rewriting of history is important because it’s central to the whole artistic concept of the movie. In real life, Tonya willingly agreed to a plea in order to avoid jail time. In the movie she is tricked, and starts screaming that she’d rather go to prison than be banned. It’s like doing a movie about the civil war where Lincoln agrees that individual states can determine if they continue slavery or not. It’s not a plot simplification, it’s an alternative fact made in order to support a flimsy theory ie. Tonya as victim.

The movie really infantilized Tonya beyond belief.

 

[LarrySK8]

It’s not a plot simplification, it’s an alternative fact made in order to support a flimsy theory ie. Tonya as victim.

It is not an "alternative fact," because this is not a biography - it is a movie - it is BASED on a life. The character Tonya in the movie is played that way. It is not meant to be a historical biopic - IT IS ONLY A MOVIE.

 

[Wyliefan]

Tara skipped out on Worlds and turned pro 2 months after the Olympics. She also had a $1.2 million contract with USFS to appear in pro-am events after the Olympics and she bolted on it, refusing to do any events that were not for just pro skaters. It was believed that Team Tara wanted nothing to do with her ever competing against Michelle again, lest she lose and "tarnish" her OGM in any way. Let's just say USFS was not lacking reason to be less than thrilled with her.

Aren't we forgetting something? Like severe hip injuries?