I, Tonya

[NAOTMAA]

not really. Her dad was murdered by her own brother.... I wouldn't call it a comfortable like.

My mom used to say, when my sisters and I fought, that friends come and go but in the end family is the most important and your stuck with them for life so you better get along!

A blood family member doing that to another is just shocking and unbelievable no matter what class or ethnic background you have, that's not suppose to happen. It's got to be rough as hell for Nancy and all her relatives living the rest of their lives with conflicted emotions. Your father/husband/cousin is dead but the murder is your brother/son/nephew. How do you respond to that?! That's something you can never get over

 

[Jot the Dot Dot]

not really. Her dad was murdered by her own brother.... I wouldn't call it a comfortable life.

Plus, Nancy had 6 miscarriages. Not the most enviable situation.

 

[tylersf]

Compared to Tonya, Nancy's life was better. Nancy was admired by millions, whereas Tonya was hated.
Nancy lives in a big mansion, Tonya was in a trailer.
They both chose their paths. Everyone has their crosses to bear.

not really. Her dad was murdered by her own brother.... I wouldn't call it a comfortable life.

 

[bardtoob]

not really. Her dad was murdered by her own brother.... I wouldn't call it a comfortable life.

When she was 15 years old, Tonya had to burn her half brother, who was eventually arrested in her house after breaking in, with a curling iron because he was going to rape her ... Then Tonya's mother said she was exaggerating but thought Tonya's half-brother trying to kiss her was somehow closer to the truth and reasonable.

 

[NAOTMAA]

When was 15 years old, Tonya had to burn her half brother with a curling iron and call the police, who was eventually arrested him in her house, because he was going to rape her ... Then Tonya's mother said she was exaggerating but thought Tonya's half-brother trying to kiss her was somehow closer to the truth and acceptable.

all of that is HORRIBLE, and of course there is sympathy for that, but it doesn't give her an excuse to attack a complete innocent who played zero role in the misery of her personal life. I don't think many people would judge Tonya if she had her half brother wacked

 

[bardtoob]

Nancy's had a lot of things go her way after the 1994 Olympics. She married her agent, she had 3 kids, a financially comfortable life, endorsements etc..

On the other hand, Tonya's had a very bad life. I guess that's Karma. Maybe the universe feels

not really. Her dad was murdered by her own brother.... I wouldn't call it a comfortable life.

My mom used to say, when my sisters and I fought, that friends come and go but in the end family is the most important and your stuck with them for life so you better get along!

A blood family member doing that to another is just shocking and unbelievable no matter what class or ethnic background you have, that's not suppose to happen. It's got to be rough as hell for Nancy and all her relatives living the rest of their lives with conflicted emotions. Your father/husband/cousin is dead but the murder is your brother/son/nephew. How do you respond to that?! That's something you can never get over

When she was 15 years old, Tonya had to burn her half brother, who was eventually arrested in her house after breaking in, with a curling iron because he was going to rape her ... Then Tonya's mother said she was exaggerating but thought Tonya's half-brother trying to kiss her was somehow closer to the truth and reasonable.

all of that is HORRIBLE, and of course there is sympathy for that, but it doesn't give her an excuse to attack a complete innocent who played zero role in the misery of her personal life. I don't think many people would judge Tonya if she had her half brother wacked

I thought we were playing the "more uncomfortable life" game, family nut-jobs edition

 

[Japanfan]

But really, aside from a great story about "class," what about the woman who was attacked and injured? Oh, that's right, she doesn't matter anymore. Sorry, I get the kudos for this movie and I plan to see it, but trying to turn Tonya into this misunderstood seeming "hero" is getting to be a bit much.

But the movie was about Tonya, not about Nancy.

It is not Tonya's fault that a movie producer thought her story was worth telling.

And her story was worth telling because it was about a particular type of person and woman - a person from the wrong side of the tracks who does not conform or fit in and is hence an underdog to a certain degree. This was the character type the director and writers were working with.

The film happened to do much better than probably anyone could have imagined, and the character and story caught the imagination of the public. The script was strong, and strong actors were chosen who fully committed to their roles. Again, none of this is Tonya's fault.

I personally was pleased to see Tonya at the Globes! She looked so proud!

The film emphasized that her lifetime ban from the federation was tantamount to a life a sentence. She begged the judge to give her 18 months in jail like Stan got and was more than willing to do that time. Instead, she had the thing she loved the most in life and the only thing she know how to do in life taken away from her. The impact of that will extend to her lifespan. Anyone else who committed a comparable crime would do their time and then go back to their lives. Not so for Tonya. IMO she's certainly been punished enough.

Also, the perspective the film took was one of empathy - obviously, it had to. As Allison Janney said in her Globe acceptance speech, it was a film about class, and about a person whose distinctive, unique personality was not welcomed in the world she lived in (I'm paraphrasing). It strove to make a point about class - not Tonya's fault.

Tonya was so very young and under such enormous pressure was the whole thing went down - and dealing with an abusive husband that she was encouraged to return to. I thought the film presented her in this light, and focused on her as a fighter who got back up when she was knocked down. And even if she was complicit to some degree in the event, it's still possible to have empathy for her IMO.

SPOILER (sorry don't know how to do the tags): The final image of the film speaks to the notion that she was a fighter. She's been knocked down in the boxing ring, but the final close-up of her fiery eyes speaks volumes.

I get that - but Tonya Harding is being turned into a star again and celebrated as a victim, a feminist hero (or anti-hero)

I didn't see anything particularly feminist in Tonya's character. The world of figure skating isn't exactly feminist-friendly.

Look, Tonya had a past that probably made her a terrible person, and I sympathize with that. But that doesn't make her any less of a terrible person. I don't know why they're celebrating her here.

If she was/is a terrible person (I don't see her as such), that is not all she is. That is not her totality. As said above, it's not her fault that the film was made and is becoming a huge success.

 

[Inessence]

I didn't see anything particularly feminist in Tonya's character. The world of figure skating isn't exactly feminist-friendly.

Here is a good article that highlights the feminist angle:
https://www.salon.com/2017/12/26/we...symbol-of-2017-feminism/#.WlM-eiyPiss.twitter

 

[Anita18]

Here is a good article that highlights the feminist angle:
https://www.salon.com/2017/12/26/we...symbol-of-2017-feminism/#.WlM-eiyPiss.twitter

Ah, so it’s the “women are flawed people tooooo!” white feminist angle than anything actually empowering. (Given that it’s only white women allowed the privilege of being flawed and manage to illicit sympathy from the public.)

I can see that, having seen the movie. But I wouldn’t call her a “hero” (or even “anti-hero”) for the movement. That implies that there’s something more actively inspiring about Tonya than just being flawed (or just plain active, instead of whining), and I don’t think the movie takes that angle. The movie shows that a lot of s*** happened to Tonya, and her reactions, but it doesn’t really show her really taking charge of anything. Maybe when she goes to the FBI.

 

[berthesghost]

I can’t help but compare I, tonya to good movies about the struggles working class women face, like “frozen river”. Of course, there the women ultimately helped each other. I’m not sure what type of “feminist message” a story that not only trivializes a woman’s participation in the brutal attack of another woman, but then tries to excuse it because “my mom was a bitch” sends. “It’s not my fault!” Whatever I, Tonya.

 

[Yazmeen]

More from Twitter - the irony of Tonya being at the Golden Globes on a night of protest against abuse of women has not gone unnoticed; the original tweet I posted is there, scroll down:

https://twitter.com/search?q=Tonya+Harding&ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^news|twgr^search

ETA: From Amy Kaufmann: "I went up to Tonya Harding to ask some questions. She told me she can't talk to media bc she's "under contract." "I, Tonya" director tells me: "no... I think she just doesn't want to talk right *now.*" #GoldenGlobes"

I'm guessing ABC doesn't want her talking before the January 11th interview.

 

[skatesindreams]

Likely true.

 

[VGThuy]

Tonya could have received 18 months of jail time and still received the lifetime ban. It was not an either/or thing as the USFS is its own private entity that is allowed to make decisions regarding membership so long as they don't break any laws doing so. Even if one disagrees with Tonya's lifetime ban, I have no doubt USFS would have given it to her any way since she was tied up with attacking a fellow skater and USFS member and used funds given to her by the USFS via a charitable donor to help pay for it all to affect a USFS competition. I would ban her for life too.

Tonya was 23 going on 24 when all of this went down. I agree that she was relatively young, but she's of the age where she should known better than to be at least complicit in any plan at all. It's the same standard everybody in this country receives no matter what hardships they had to endure in life (heck our country even sends minors to lengthy prison sentences). She could have raised the defense that she was under duress, but it's up to people close to the facts to believe that and I'm not sure how much of that defense she raised at the time. She would say it later on, even claiming Jeff, Shawn and others raped her or did something to her in the E! True Hollywood Story from 1998, a story she never repeated again.

 

[Yazmeen]

And this comment wins the week: "Tonya Harding is at the Golden Globes and OJ Simpson was at the Bills game today. We have collectively learned nothing from the 90s."

 

[Yazmeen]

Compared to Tonya, Nancy's life was better. Nancy was admired by millions, whereas Tonya was hated.
Nancy lives in a big mansion, Tonya was in a trailer.
They both chose their paths. Everyone has their crosses to bear.

Except that Tonya always seems to want to have everyone (anyone) else "bear her cross." Because she's never, ever been responsible for any of her misfortune, you know.

 

[Erin]

Saw the movie last night. I generally liked it, although I would say don't go in expecting accuracy on the details - I think that seeing that they did a good job with the details around the costuming and hair gave me a higher expectation for accuracy than was actually delivered, so I had to try to just put that aside and enjoy the story for what it was. Some of the changes were obvious for exposition reasons (Diane telling Tonya in 1992/93 "they just decided today to put the next Olympics in 1994, you have a second chance") and some were because they made a better story, probably most blatant being Tonya not getting the marks at 1986 Skate America when she actually won the short and long program and only lost to Tiffany Chin because of figures:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJuZuqr8nXQ

The performances were all very good. Allison Janney and Margot Robbie are obvious and have been discussed a lot, but I'd like to recognize Julianne Nicholson as Diane Rawlinson, which was probably the best unexpected performance for me. The script was funny, the choice of background music was fun. I liked the comparative points of view. Jeff changing his story now kind of messed with things a lot and had me very distracted (I kept thinking "this isn't right, that's not the way it happened") but if that's what they got out of the interview, that's what they had to work with.

Bottom line - if you want something accurate, watch the TV movie, but this is still entertaining to watch (regardless of your personal feelings on Tonya).

Tonya could have received 18 months of jail time and still received the lifetime ban. It was not an either/or thing as the USFS is its own private entity that is allowed to make decisions regarding membership so long as they don't break any laws doing so.

This misconception that it's one or the other is probably not helped by another Hollywood-ization in the movie where they made it look like a judge made that decision. Which made sense from a storytelling perspective but would never happen in the real world.

She could have raised the defense that she was under duress, but it's up to people close to the facts to believe that and I'm not sure how much of that defense she raised at the time. She would say it later on, even claiming Jeff, Shawn and others raped her or did something to her in the E! True Hollywood Story from 1998, a story she never repeated again.

She repeated it in the Tonya Tapes - apparently in quite a bit of detail to the interviewer/editor, Lynda Prouse. Originally Tonya requested that it be left out entirely of the tapes, then either Lynda or her agent Michael Rosenberg convinced Tonya that she let Lynda summarize what happened and Tonya agreed to it.

Apparently she either didn't discuss it in her interview with the movie producers or wanted the episode left out of the movie.

 

[skatingguy]

And this comment wins the week: "Tonya Harding is at the Golden Globes and OJ Simpson was at the Bills game today. We have collectively learned nothing from the 90s."

We learned that celebrity status tops all - and look who's President now.

 

[Inessence]

Ah, so it’s the “women are flawed people tooooo!” white feminist angle than anything actually empowering. (Given that it’s only white women allowed the privilege of being flawed and manage to illicit sympathy from the public.)

I personally think not telling women to just sit, smile, and know your place or you won’t “liked” is part and parcel to the feminist movement. No matter if she’s white, black or green.

 

[berthesghost]

I personally think not telling women to just sit, smile, and know your place or you won’t “liked” is part and parcel to the feminist movement. No matter if she’s white, black or green.

What’s that got to do with I, Tonya?

When newbie Harding “wuz robbed” at 86 SA in favor of a nat champ and world medalist, that was unfair but how the sport worked. Just ask Ross Minor if that only happenes to women.

The imo poorly written movie proceeds to replace Chin with an unnamed generic Bradie/Gracie Disney princess clone in order to push their biased “Tonya was abused because she was poor” narrative.

89 SA which Tonya wins over nat champ, olympian and highly tiffed middle class white girl Trenary is conveniently left out of the script.

I don’t mind all of the poetic liscense they took with history as that’s the way of Hollywood, but some of them were hilarious. When circa 93 I, Tonya screams into the camera “Im landing all of my jumps and they still won’t let me win” I harder than I did at any of their intentional jokes. Girl please, we wuz there!

 

[VGThuy]

So the film white-washed Tiffany Chin?

 

[meggonzo]

So the film white-washed Tiffany Chin?

Not really. They just showed another girl on the ice but never showed who won. It was about Tonya getting bad scores and having a different style, drama with LaVona, etc.

 

[VGThuy]

Not really. They just showed another girl on the ice but never showed who won. It was about Tonya getting bad scores and having a different style, drama with LaVona, etc.

Thanks!

 

[Anita18]

I personally think not telling women to just sit, smile, and know your place or you won’t “liked” is part and parcel to the feminist movement. No matter if she’s white, black or green.

But Tonya doesn’t get anything positive out of being something the USFSA didn’t want. The movie doesn’t break her completely, but I didn’t read a positive feminist lesson in this. It’s more an observation than anything else.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

Compared to Tonya, Nancy's life was better. Nancy was admired by millions, whereas Tonya was hated.
Nancy lives in a big mansion, Tonya was in a trailer.
They both chose their paths. Everyone has their crosses to bear.

Are you ****ing serious? Nancy chose the path along which her brother killed her father, she experienced 6 miscarriages and was brutally attacked - but those are just crosses to bear that she CHOSE?

 

[berthesghost]

So the film white-washed Tiffany Chin?

Ymmv
The whole 86 SA scene only seemed to show white girls with ballet buns, especially the unnamed blond. When I, tonya throws her hissy fit about losing its right when the unnamed blond is on the ice awkwardly standing there with her mouth open as Tonya acts out. It’s done for comic effect which is one of things you’ll either love or hate about the movie.
To say they didn’t technically claim someone other than Chin won is very court-of-lawish imo. The whole scene was created to set the precedent that no matter how well Tonya skated, she still “lost” because she didn’t fit the mold. Like Tiffany and mrs Chin were so country club typical skating mold

 

[Inessence]

But Tonya doesn’t get anything positive out of being something the USFSA didn’t want. The movie doesn’t break her completely, but I didn’t read a positive feminist lesson in this. It’s more an observation than anything else.

The movie doesn’t start in my area until Friday, but in general, Tonya’s inability to portray a maiden fair was mainly why the USFSA disliked her.

 

[Japanfan]

Here is a good article that highlights the feminist angle:
https://www.salon.com/2017/12/26/we...symbol-of-2017-feminism/#.WlM-eiyPiss.twitter

This was an interesting read, and I agree with the analysis. I often take a feminist POV, but didn't think of it in this case as I'm too close to the story.

I do often think of how conservative a sport FS is in terms of how it emphasizes feminine stereotypes - i.e the baby ballerina, little girls in pretty boxes, heavy make-up on 15 year old girls, tinkly piano music. The stereotypes are so pervasive that few ladies have taken advantage of the broader program options made possible by being able to wear pants - Perkova's rousing routine to Pirates of the Caribbean and one of Mae Berenice's programs being notable exceptions. Daleman had a wonderful opportunity with 'Gladiator' but managed to 'feminize' the program but using elevator music instead of the actual soundtrack.

I can’t help but compare I, tonya to good movies about the struggles working class women face, like “frozen river”. Of course, there the women ultimately helped each other. I’m not sure what type of “feminist message” a story that not only trivializes a woman’s participation in the brutal attack of another woman, but then tries to excuse it because “my mom was a bitch” sends. “It’s not my fault!” Whatever I, Tonya.

I loved 'Frozen River', and it was similar to 'I, Tonya' in that both were about women that had been kicked around in life and came back fighting. It's not possible to deny that Tonya experienced abuse in her life, regardless of how negatively one judges her for the choices she made or didn't make, and her possible complicity in the attack. Nor is it possible to deny that FS encourages female skaters to fit the feminine mold.

And Tonya did not "participate" in the attack - the most she did was contribute to its planning.

I don't think the film trivialized that contribution. It did show the note. And it had to show Tonya's and Stan's perspective - Nancy's was not relevant to the story-line.

But the film was not about 'the incident'. I don't think non-skating fans who saw the film came away wondering how involved she was in it. Rather, they would come away thinking about the theme of class, and about the character's struggle against adversity - the final volume of Tonya down in the boxing ring with blazing eyes spoke volumes IMO.

Ultimately this film was not about Tonya at all. She was a vehicle for its larger themes.

I would think the Tonya haters might be satisfied that she was punished by being the object of constant ridicule (one of the articles linked above is about a comedian who found ample material in Tonya) and receiving a lifetime ban from the US federation. As mentioned above, the film emphasized that she would have much preferred just to spend 18 months in jail.

She's been punished more harshly than others who commit similar crimes. And as also stated above, it's not her fault that a film was made about her that happened to be an excellent film. And in terms of bring redemption, its 24 years after the incident. Tonya had to rebuild her life in its fall-out and the abuse she experienced will probably haunt her and impact her for the rest of her life. Even if you hold her responsible for ruining her own life, she still had to rebuild it. On that account, she really did the best she could, although it took her some time.

 

[jenniferlyon]

Ymmv
The whole 86 SA scene only seemed to show white girls with ballet buns, especially the unnamed blond. When I, tonya throws her hissy fit about losing its right when the unnamed blond is on the ice awkwardly standing there with her mouth open as Tonya acts out. It’s done for comic effect which is one of things you’ll either love or hate about the movie.
To say they didn’t technically claim someone other than Chin won is very court-of-lawish imo. The whole scene was created to set the precedent that no matter how well Tonya skated, she still “lost” because she didn’t fit the mold. Like Tiffany and mrs Chin were so country club typical skating mold

I haven't seen the film yet. (Been sick. I might go tomorrow.) But I'm picturing the blond as an East German (not Katarina, obviously), wondering WTF does this crazy American girl think she's doing???

 

[ssminnow]

I saw the movie. It's very entertaining and acting was terrific. However, I thought it suffered from trying to be too many things at once. It's at once a story, a character study, and a theme. There's also an "unreliable narrator" thrown in to add a meta perspective. The script would have been better to focus on a couple of these things instead of touching on them all.

 

[Inessence]

Piers Morgan challenges Tonya.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowb...ter-tonya-harding-after-fiery-on-air-bust-up/