How To Successfully Deal With Harrassment

[watchthis!!]

Looked like the Weinstein thread was no longer about Weinstein any more, so I thought I'd start a thread to deal with the topic of harrassment.

Any articles or websites or organizations that you are aware of and would suggest people refer to, please post links.

If you have any experiences involving successfully dealing with harrassment or know someone who has had success and are okay with you sharing their story, please do so if you are comfortable with that.

Any other thoughts you have about having to work through something like this that you are able to share...who knows who it might end up helping.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Here are Facts About Sexual Harassment from the USEEOC.

Sexual harassment is a form of sex discrimination that violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Title VII applies to employers with 15 or more employees, including state and local governments. It also applies to employment agencies and to labor organizations, as well as to the federal government.

Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitute sexual harassment when this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance, or creates an intimidating, hostile, or offensive work environment.

That is a pretty high bar, it seems to me. They go on to say the harasser can be a man or woman. And they say:

It is helpful for the victim to inform the harasser directly that the conduct is unwelcome and must stop. The victim should use any employer complaint mechanism or grievance system available.

The law protects you (theoretically) from being fired or penalized for lodging a complaint.

My personal like is: A slap in the face, and a very loud "Don't you dare touch my breasts...or whatever". Make sure everyone hears. Does wonders.

 

[Kasey]

And then you are the one on the hook for assault, since frequently, just like in football, it's the second person who gets penalized. Tell me AA, have you actually been in a situation where you've had to use this method, and how effective was it for you? Because you can't claim it "does wonders" if you've never actually used it (or even seen it effectively used, outside of the movies or something).

 

[overedge]

And it's not just "sexual harassment" any more. Sexual harassment has to have an element of a "sexual nature" to it. But more codes of conduct, and some laws, are recognizing harassment in general, which includes bullying and other non-sexual behaviour that could also create a hostile work environment.

 

[AxelAnnie]

And then you are the one on the hook for assault, since frequently, just like in football, it's the second person who gets penalized. Tell me AA, have you actually been in a situation where you've had to use this method, and how effective was it for you? Because you can't claim it "does wonders" if you've never actually used it (or even seen it effectively used, outside of the movies or something).

Yep! And it worked

 

[once_upon]

You are fortunate it didn't end with an assault charge.

Harassment is even more difficult to prove than rape. Often times it occurs in a setting with no witnesses and unlike rape there is rarely if ever evidence to collaborate your claim. In your scenario, without evidence - which rarely exists - you are the aggressor and 95 -99%. Hello jail time

 

[TheGirlCanSkate]

I'd love to know so I can give my daughter information. For me, when a 50+ year old high school teacher ran his hand on my 15 year old arm, I just froze. Part of me thought I must be special and the other terrified "if I don't finish this lab, I'll get a bad grade so I'll pretend it isn't happening." How do you go from being scared rabbit to doing something? How do you make your brain move so you can react better?

 

[Spun Silver]

I'd love to know so I can give my daughter information. For me, when a 50+ year old high school teacher ran his hand on my 15 year old arm, I just froze. Part of me thought I must be special and the other terrified "if I don't finish this lab, I'll get a bad grade so I'll pretend it isn't happening." How do you go from being scared rabbit to doing something? How do you make your brain move so you can react better?

I remember that feeling in subways and buses. Maybe practice role playing? Giving her the words in advance? My mother and I NEVER had that kind of conversation, nor did I with any other female mentor.

I remember when the daughter of a much older friend of mine was raped. My friend would/could not discuss what happened with either her daughter or me. It was that taboo for her generation (at least that is the explanation I came up with). Horrifying to think the daughter could not turn to her mother for support. And my friend was a doctor! (Pediatrician.)

 

[attyfan]

And it's not just "sexual harassment" any more. Sexual harassment has to have an element of a "sexual nature" to it. But more codes of conduct, and some laws, are recognizing harassment in general, which includes bullying and other non-sexual behaviour that could also create a hostile work environment.

Sexual harassment doesn't necessarily have to have a "sexual nature"; any harassment will do, as long as the victim is chosen "because of sex".

 

[Tinami Amori]

And then you are the one on the hook for assault, since frequently, just like in football, it's the second person who gets penalized. Tell me AA, have you actually been in a situation where you've had to use this method, and how effective was it for you? Because you can't claim it "does wonders" if you've never actually used it (or even seen it effectively used, outside of the movies or something).

I have been, several times, in USA, Brazil, and Russia, work related (there were also non-work related situations in Morocco, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Jamaica, and USA..). Here are few stories.

- In USA while in college i worked at a clothing store. A very nice woman owned it. She escaped Nazi Germany in 1940's when she was just a girl. Her spoiled son, 10 years old than me, often took "us girls" for beer and pizza after work, when he came to count-up the register at the end of the day; then he drove us home. Once i was the last girl to be dropped off, he drove up to Rose Gardens in Berkeley Hills, stopped the car, and leaned over me. I punched him with an elbow in the groin, jumped out of the car and ran down hill back to Berkeley. He was following me, telling me to get back in the car, he did not mean anything, and he did not know that i am such a "square" given i am such a "cool punk-rocker girl" and that I misunderstood because when "in America a boy likes a girl, he takes her to inspiration point to make out, that's the American tradition, nothing wrong about it". I told him "to go and see Night Porter and how would his mother like him acting like a violent Nazi". He kept following and i kept walking. Next day his mother called me in the store and tried to sort it out. She certainly did not disowned him, or kick him out of the house... but she did not kick me out either. So all ended well.

- In Brazil I made a mistake of drinking all night with the guys who were operations managers at a nickel mine in Mato Grosso. Our company was delivering machinery from the States. I was transportation logistics mngr. All was friendly during the day. Drinking all night gave the guys wrong ideas. Was not too bad, no injuries, took some physical resistance, including punching a few times and flipping out my switch blade, in order for me to get out of that room and to safely return to my room.

They were “executives” with reputation to consider, so it did not get far. The following morning I came in and said “so boys, did you go to town to get whores, or handled it among yourselves?”… they chuckled, were embarrassed so it seems and we went on working.


- Different forwarding company, few years later. Regional manager from Texas, 1 other executive and myself (as CIS transport logistics mngr) went on a business trip to Russia (Exxon-Mobil refinery project in the Far East, while Tillerson was still in charge..). Regional Manager (RM), fat middle-aged cowboy type, sat next to me on the plane, asking several times “if the girls are fun and friendly in Russia, and will I help him translate if he meets any.” The more he drank, the more he talked about “what he heard about Russian girls” and asked me if I know how much “they cost per night, and are they any good”. I told him “Russian girls have teeth in their vaginas, and you can’t afford them”. He laughed and went to sleep.


- Once in a hotel in Russia, few nights in a row he did find prostitutes in a bar. One night something did not work out, and he called me into his room asking to bring some paper, but instead asked me to find and call some “escort” service since he does not speak Russian. He was in his robe half reclined on the bed. I told him that I have nothing against prostitution, but in Russia it’s mafia related, I am not touching it, and don’t recommend him calling any service on his own either or as a “wealthy westerner” he may get a visit from more than just a “girl” in his room. I put down papers and headed to the door passing his bed; he reclined, opened his robe, and asked if I am interested for 2x the price he’s been paying so far… . I told him I don’t touch “used goods” and he might already have an STD from those Russian whores. Laughed and left the room. But yes, it was not pleasant to look at an old fat hick, with his tool hanging out.


I called that night my Regional Manager 2, a very nice man who worked with me in another company and brought me over to this one when he transferred, and told him “don’t be surprised if RM-1 returns home in a casket…. he is having lots of adventures with local girls and is now waving his tool at me”. RM-2 told me “hang in there, I’ll talk to him”. I don’t know if he did, but RM-1 behaved normal for the remaining 2 days. When I returned to the office, I wrote up the incident in my trip-report and sent a copy to the corporate office. I don’t know what they did with RM-1; I never crossed passes with him again and never heard a thing about it from the corporate office, good or bad.


- Russia…… and then there is “doing business in Russia in the 1990’s, with no rules or regulations, as woman, a jew and an “immigrant-traitor-capitalist” who came to pinch money from poor Russians…. I’ll skip on that as it is minimum a 3-volume novel.

Fair? No. Reality? Yes. Should there be laws against it and enforced? Yes. It is not pleasant or a joke by any means. But it is best to anticipate such situations, and be prepared to handle it. At least if you make attempt to stop it, you feel you did your best.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Australia has some great resources on workplace bullying which sexual harassment falls into that kind of category (under the term bullying and harassment). There is lots of information on the Safe Work Australia website.

https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/bullying

However as I always say it is never a straight forward situation and many times the victim is punished as per this story about a reporter who was sacked for complaining about harassment from a colleague. Apparently the harasser is still there.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-25/recording-reveals-how-channel-7-cadet-was-dismissed/8984428

 

[misskarne]

^I still think one of the more horrible parts of that Ch7 story is that they fabricated a complaint from another coworker about her as justification, and when that coworker found out he was horrified and told them he wanted nothing to do with it and they told him to butt out! I feel so bad for that guy, too.

 

[Vagabond]

My personal like is: A slap in the face, and a very loud "Don't you dare touch my breasts...or whatever". Make sure everyone hears. Does wonders.

Sexual harrassment includes many things that don't involve touching.

http://www.un.org/womenwatch/osagi/pdf/whatissh.pdf

To suggest that this is an appropriate response to being referred to as "honey" betrays a lack of understanding of what most victims of harassment face.

Furthermore, there are a bunch of sexist assumptions in what you have written. I am a man who was once sexually harassed by a female higherup at an office party. (She was a lesbian, FWIW, but sexual preference didn't seem to have anything to do with the matter.) I find the suggestion that I should have slapped her on the face disgusting.

Except in cases of outright assault, violence is not an appropriate response.

Sexual harassment in the workplace should be reported to the perpetrator's higherups or, if there aren't any, co-equals.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I am a man who was once sexually harassed by a female higherup at an office party. (She was a lesbian, FWIW, but sexual preference didn't seem to have anything to do with the matter.) I find the suggestion that I should have slapped her on the face disgusting.

May i asked what she did/say? I once slapped on the butt a co-worker (male, gay, good friend at work), he was bending over a copier in a fancy pair of pants, and i was walking past him and said "nice pants" (slap!)... He complained.. but i did not mean it "sexually" more like "we're buddies"..

 

[Aussie Willy]

May i asked what she did/say? I once slapped on the butt a co-worker (male, gay, good friend at work), he was bending over a copier in a fancy pair of pants, and i was walking past him and said "nice pants" (slap!)... He complained.. but i did not mean it "sexually" more like "we're buddies"..

Well that is totally unacceptable in a workplace. Now I understand why you don't see this stuff as a big deal if you think it is acceptable to behave like that.

 

[Vagabond]

May i asked what she did/say?

She slapped me on the butt, said, "Nice pants!", and asked inappropriate questions.

 

[Lilia A]

I've been lucky in that I've never had to deal with that at work. However, a family member has (no physical contact, but very suggestive language). She found the perfect solution, always have your cell phone with you. She got this advice from a classmate and she noticed the boss's attitude changed immediately. Suddenly their private "review meetings" were less frequent until he realized she wasn't letting go of the phone. Obviously, he knew she could easily record their conversation and report him, so he knew better and actually acted professionally.
Now, I'm not saying that this is the end all be all solution. She was lucky that it worked for her, but obviously there should be a safe and easy way to report these people without fear of any repercussions whatsoever. Not to mention, companies actually doing something about it rather than a slap on the wrist or a nonsense investigation that leads to nothing.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Sexual harrassment includes many things that don't involve touching.

http://www.un.org/womenwatch/osagi/pdf/whatissh.pdf

To suggest that this is an appropriate response to being referred to as "honey" betrays a lack of understanding of what most victims of harassment face.

Furthermore, there are a bunch of sexist assumptions in what you have written. I am a man who was once sexually harassed by a female higherup at an office party. (She was a lesbian, FWIW, but sexual preference didn't seem to have anything to do with the matter.) I find the suggestion that I should have slapped her on the face disgusting.

Except in cases of outright assault, violence is not an appropriate response.

Sexual harassment in the workplace should be reported to the perpetrator's higherups or, if there aren't any, co-equals.

I know and the information said either sex can be harassed by either sex

My response is appropriate for what I described....I thought it was obvious that the response I suggested was useful in a touch situation. A million years ago I had a manager who was really inappropriate in his comments. I talked to the big boss and the guy stopped. I know it does not always go that way
The point of the loud response is so that others can hear. Eventually either th e harassment stops or you have enough people who heard you that it adds weight to your claim.

You can't comment on a pregnant woman's body
..evem though it is good spirited...uou can't comment on anyone's body.

People say inappropriate things and couch it i...I was just kidding. If they get called out enough times they might stop.

 

[Vagabond]

My response is appropriate for what I described....I thought it was obvious that the response I suggested was useful in a touch situation.

Considering that your own post mentioned "verbal conduct . . . of a sexual nature," no, it wasn't obvious.

People say inappropriate things and couch it i...I was just kidding. If they get called out enough times they might stop.

You get called out a lot for inappropriate things you post here. It hasn't had any apparent effect on you so far.

 

[Japanfan]

I'd love to know so I can give my daughter information. For me, when a 50+ year old high school teacher ran his hand on my 15 year old arm, I just froze. Part of me thought I must be special and the other terrified "if I don't finish this lab, I'll get a bad grade so I'll pretend it isn't happening." How do you go from being scared rabbit to doing something? How do you make your brain move so you can react better?

Good questions.

 

[Karina1974]

I prefer the method of lowering the heaviest object I can lift onto the perp's head as fast as I can.

 

[AxelAnnie]

[http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...lleged-behavior-calls-a-world-harveys-1048873

Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think I would admire Michael Moore

 

[Gazpacho]

Unfortunately speaking up usually hurts more than helps.

 

[Scrufflet]

I'd love to know so I can give my daughter information. For me, when a 50+ year old high school teacher ran his hand on my 15 year old arm, I just froze. Part of me thought I must be special and the other terrified "if I don't finish this lab, I'll get a bad grade so I'll pretend it isn't happening." How do you go from being scared rabbit to doing something? How do you make your brain move so you can react better?

I'm glad you posted this. I am part of a generation that was told to do whatever adults told you to do (no exceptions), that boys hit you because they "liked you", that "boys will be boys" and will therefore be excused from bad behaviour, that what you just experienced did not happen, that you asked for it by dressing the wrong way, being in the wrong place, by being provocative, etc. The list goes on!
With this upbringing, is it any wonder that I, too, was the scared rabbit who devised her own coping skills : be as invisible as possible, avoid, stay away from males, run. They worked for a while but I finally realized that I wasn't leading any kind of life. I wanted a respectful, loving partnership with a man and worked toward that. I got it but the battle was not over.
Fast forward a few years where I was working in a large institution where my boss was a harasser. It was an "open secret". A group of 4 of us decided to report him. We did and he was removed from the company with a payoff. We were treated like troublemakers and told to never speak of it. I don't kid myself that we were powerful; it was a matter of timing in that they had introduced new harassment policies and this one was too big to ignore. Interestingly, 13 more women reported similar behaviour anonymously but said they would not sign a complaint. I don't blame them; I just figure they had their own way of dealing with it. I had reached a point where I would be sacrificing my self-respect if I didn't do something.
So, as to what to tell your daughter? I's say you are well on the way to doing it if you tell her what happened to you. Tell her the warning signs, help her establish her own boundaries, bolster her confidence, make sure she knows decent men . I guess it's kind of like defensive driving. Risks will always be there but she'll go in armed. And some women will stand by her.
I'm a senior now but I'm still getting this crap now and then. So it's not about being young and gorgeous. I use my voice. I get louder and louder until they back off. It works for me and I am well past the point of caring how I appear. And I try to lend support to other women, young and old.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Way to go Scrufflet! Great post.

 

[TheGirlCanSkate]

Thank you! That was empowering to read.

 

[cocotaffy]

My first concern is to educate my son not to be entitled when it comes to women. Teach him joking around doesn't equate with mocking/harassing people. I say this because in France in the light of the Weinstein scandal, lots of women took to Twitter to talk about their own experiences, and of course some guys are already deflating what a lot of those women are describing as everyday harassment as just " locker room jokes" they shouldn't take seriously. Well it might make those guys laugh but not the women, so what give them the right.
Teach him women are not sexual objects to dispose as he pleases. Make him understand how words can be as hurtful as gestures.
It's well and fine to prepare our daughters but society should definitely reassess how boys are being brought up. Of course I am also talking to my daughter about all of this and I'm particularly careful to do it in front of my son so he realizes what girls have to be aware of. The Weinstein case certainly opened a lot of discussions at home.

 

[Japanfan]

In Brazil I made a mistake of drinking all night with the guys who were operations managers at a nickel mine in Mato Grosso. Our company was delivering machinery from the States. I was transportation logistics mngr. All was friendly during the day. Drinking all night gave the guys wrong ideas. Was not too bad, no injuries, took some physical resistance, including punching a few times and flipping out my switch blade, in order for me to get out of that room and to safely return to my room.

They were “executives” with reputation to consider, so it did not get far.

And one of those men might have returned the punch, flipped the switchblade out of your hand and knocked you senseless - executive or not.

Punching is not the wisest strategy for one woman dealing with multiple men who are bigger and stronger than her, and drunk to boot.

 

[Tinami Amori]

She slapped me on the butt, said, "Nice pants!", and asked inappropriate questions.

Oh, good... I thought it was something serious.

Good questions.

The post you quoted as mine, to which you gave this reply, is not mine (see #20). I think you started saying something to me, but copied another poster's text. You might want to check.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Oh, good... I thought it was something serious.

Well actually it is quite serious. And that you joke about it doesn't really engender much respect towards yourself.