Has USFSA flat out ever told a skater to retire?

[aftershocks]

Regardless of your views there were many on goldenskate and here also I recall who said they would have had it the other way around. I am not neccessarily one of them but it doesnt change that it was still debated at the time. Even if Ten deserved the bronze the judges could have easily gone the other way and it wouldnt have created any controversy and they chose to go with him over a bigger name skater. They then gave him another medal and a win in the LP at the 2015 worlds, which he could have won if he didnt fall in his short program. They gave him huge scores which were close to the WR scores at the time at the 2015 Four Continent event which he won handily. There is no actual evidence of the judges being down on him post the 2013 worlds controversy talk, if anything he seemed to get marked more favorably/fairly due to that talk in the enusing years.

As for federation power, given that I was referencing a skater from Spain do you seriously think Spain is a powerful federation with political power in the sport, hardly anymore than a bottom feeder like Kazaghstan. Now when he lost worlds in 2013 to Chan, that probably was a huge factor as Skate Canada is one of the most powerful, influential, political, and corrupt federations in the sport.

I guess you didn't actually look at the programs then. It's certainly not just 'my views.' If fans on goldenskate and FSU had the last word as to who should win, there'd never be a final result; forget about a medal ceremony. Javi made too many technical errors and Denis is a superior skater to Javi artistically, as well as Denis having better technical content on the night in the fp. Javi has come more into his own artistically over the past four years, but he still does not have great range artistically. He's got a cool, lovable personality and his jumps are stellar when he's in the zone. Still most of this season, Javi has been off with errors in his programs. I think his Don Quixote fp music is a bit overdone, and the concept is a bit of over-thinking, but the choreo is good. Anyway, Sochi was four years ago, so I suppose we should get ready to gear up for endless debates about the next Olympics.

Javi trains in Canada at the prestigious Cricket Club, plus he's a huge star in Europe and internationally, more-so at this stage than Denis has ever been. Orser is an influential coach, just as Canada is powerful politically. Do not underestimate how beloved Javi is throughout the skating community. He doesn't really need a powerful fed when the ISU and the judges love him so much.

 

[DreamSkates]

Well she had her own technical issues and would have no chance under IJS. I am glad she at least medaled at 4CCs twice (gold and bronze) when it was still a B event and under 6.0. Some US champions like Rachael Flatt or Alissa Czisny or even Gracie Gold never even won a senior international championship medal.

Didn't Alissa Czisny win Skate Canada twice, and according to Wikipedia, the Grand Prix Final in 2010?
Rachel Flatt won Junior Worlds.
Gracie Gold won a Grand Prix even in Japan, and in France. Plus some other medals in Grand Prix events.

 

[skatingguy]

Didn't Alissa Czisny win Skate Canada twice, and according to Wikipedia, the Grand Prix Final in 2010?
Rachel Flatt won Junior Worlds.
Gracie Gold won a Grand Prix even in Japan, and in France. Plus some other medals in Grand Prix events.

Junior Worlds counts, but the others are not ISU Championships.

 

[DreamSkates]

Junior Worlds counts, but the others are not ISU Championships.

Oh, Championships being the key word here. ISU events include all the Grand Prix events.

 

[Lemonade20]

It’s interesting how skaters are even chosen for Worlds/Olympics. If you got to choose your country’s top skaters, would you base it on their results at nationals or would you choose on personality/skills/likability?

 

[Bellanca]

I realize this thread has been retrieved from the dusty archives, but yes, in my opinion, USFSA has engaged in the practice of (subtly and not so subtly) ”retiring” someone. I would categorize it as being ”dropped” or ”sent a messsge” via basement dwelling scores, crappy (GP) assignments or very few to none, ”go to college, get married, start a family” comments. The usual stuff.

ETA: retiring someone is not limited to USFSA, as many countries help to move along their skaters.

 

[cbd1235]

I doubt USFS ever tells some to retire directly. If a person’s results slip internationally then their marks at Nationals tend to reflect it. Contrary to others, I don’t think USFS or Nationals judges “dump” certain skaters, rather I think they promote/boost the scores of skaters that are doing well internationally and/or seen as contenders for winning a US, world, or Olympic medal.

So for example, I don’t think Ashley or Mariah Bell were really dumped at Nationals this year, I just don’t think they were seen as Olympic medal threats or shoo-ins for the team, so their scores were more or less in line with what they’d get internationally, whereas Bradie and Mirai got a boost because they were seen as the top US ladies this season and near locks for the Olympic team.

It’s all relative, but I see boosting scores for some as what goes on at Nationals versus purposefully holding them down for others. When you’re a skater on the rise or major contender for titles your scores rise internationally too.

Wagner got lower PCS at Nationals across her programs (but especially in the SP) than she had been getting Internationally in the 2017-2018 season, even despite very lackluster skates at her GP's. This was most clear in the 2018 Nats SP, where she was clearly not vintage Wagner, but she was across the board better in that performance than her two earlier skates of that SP in the season, and she STILL got lower PCS from the Nationals panel. All the while essentially every other skater in the event got a Nationals boost.

...They sent her a message loud and clear, and unfortunately that cost her the spot at the Olympics (which IMO she still did enough to earn over KChen, especially with Wagner's FS). She wouldn't have earned a medal at those Olympics, but her track record (in comeback response to poor skates or squeaking by at early events) suggests she would rebound and get her shit together by the Olympics (injury and all). It's a shame the fans didn't get a chance to see it.

(can't help but resist, even on this old thread !)

 

[bardtoob]

. . . but yes, in my opinion, USFSA has engaged in the practice of (subtly and not so subtly) ”retiring” someone. I would categorize it as being ”dropped” or ”sent a messsge” via basement dwelling scores, crappy (GP) assignments or very few to none, ”go to college, get married, start a family” comments. The usual stuff.

Don't forget:

• suddenly changing the rules or arranging competition assignments so a mainstay of Nationals suddenly has to go to Regionals and Sectionals where they somehow don't qualify to Nationals
• declaring you ineligible because you won $50 at the state fair for doing cartwheels

 

[Vagabond]

• declaring you ineligible because you won $50 at the state fair for doing cartwheels

USFS doesn't do this nearly often enough!

 

[bardtoob]

USFS doesn't do this nearly often enough!

Poor Janet Champion.

Forced to Turn Pro

Figure skating coach Janet Champion was a child star in Shipstads and Johnson Ice Follies. At 8 years old, Champion entered a California statewide contest where she performed a series of acrobatic moves and jumps. Her performance was so outstanding, that she won the contest. She received a trophy and a cash prize of $500.

At the time, her parents did not know that accepting a cash prize would end their daughter's amateur status. In those days, accepting any money for a sports-related activity meant that an individual had become a professional and was ineligible for competitive amateur athletics.

The San Diego Figure Skating Club soon informed Champion's coaches and parents that her future as a competitive skater was over.

How to Train Like an Olympic Figure Skater

From practicing and training to eating and competitions, all figure skaters can train like Olympians.

www.liveabout.com

 

[Marco]

Oh no - and her name was even more destined than "Gold".

 

[Skibean]

I think around 2003-4, USFS was trying to tell Kwan that Cohen was now the chosen one instead. They let Cohen beat a clean (but shaky) Kwan in the short program at 2004 Nationals and even gave her a 6.0 in the free after she had a fall. I would think Kwan had no choice but to accept that though because she had purposely chosen a light competitive schedule (no GPs) and deep down was incredibly injured. Still, Cohen never quite put it together at Nationals to beat Kwan though.

I agree. The judges wanted Cohen to have that title so badly, but Cohen rarely, if ever, skated 2 clean programs. She was a beautiful skater to watch, but consistency wasn’t something she was known for. Michelle, although silently battling her injury, still managed to outskate her.