Harvey Weinstein megaproducer and executive ousted over sexual harassment

cocotaffy said:
Another one bites the dust, Matt Lauer has just been sacked.
Matt Lauer: NBC sacks Today Show host over alleged 'inappropriate sexual behaviour' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42168640
Click to expand...

I was wondering the other day why the film industry (and the television industry to a lesser extent) has so many claims of harassment (as well as some in the political field), but why no (or little) information from the music industry and sports field? Kesha was unsuccessful in getting out of her music contract with Dr. Luke even though other women commented on his abusive (but non-sexual) behaviour. Kelly Clarkson even asked to have her name removed as songwriter for a song that Dr. Luke also co-wrote as she did not want to have any connection to him in any way that she could control. She mentioned once that she thought she might have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars from that decision, but it was worth it to her.

As for the sports field, we know that there have been all kinds of claims made, especially with the sport of football. I thought with this #metoo movement that the curtain would be pulled down and we'd be hearing a lot more stories about people in sports and hopefully seeing a cleaning up of many different sports similar to what we're seeing in the entertainment industry. But for music and sports, it seems change is not happening?? :(
 
The music industry has lots of harassment. But people are afraid to come forward about it because it's such a competitive and fickle industry, where you don't want to threaten even a small chance of success. There are plenty of informal ways to strike back against or to control harassers, and sometimes those get used so you wouldn't hear about the initial complaint.

And for sports, there just might have been a watershed moment with Larry Nassar and US Gymnastics.
 
I read that "MPR says it will no longer rebroadcast any Keillor-hosted editions of "A Prairie Home Companion." " I'm wondering, will they burn his books too?
 
PeterG said:
But for music and sports, it seems change is not happening?? :(
Click to expand...

With mainstream sports where the star players are all male, I would expect it to take a lot longer for the culture to change.

Some of the appeal of what they're selling is "masculinity" as defined by men within a male-centered environment, in ways that are not true for other industries. And the general value system within the industry would lean hard in that direction, not much tempered by women's or LGB or "liberal" or "politically correct" concerns.

Any women that star players might harrass are not and never can be their peers within their sport. Either they would be outsiders or else behind-the-scenes management employees.

I would expect HR issues dealing with harrassment within the mainstream sports industry to result in more/sooner firings related to one management employee harrassing another before any players being fired for that reason.

Players harrassing each other, or coaches harrassing players, would not have a male-female power dynamic or in most cases a sexual dimension and would likely be shrugged off more as "hazing."

Players being legally convicted of crimes against non-players, or each other, might be a different issue.

overedge said:
And for sports, there just might have been a watershed moment with Larry Nassar and US Gymnastics.
Click to expand...

Yes, in sports that are less professionalized and less dominated by narratives of masculinity, there's more room for concern about sexual harrassment to be taken seriously.
 
BlueRidge said:
I read that "MPR says it will no longer rebroadcast any Keillor-hosted editions of "A Prairie Home Companion." " I'm wondering, will they burn his books too?
Click to expand...

Depending on the provisions of any contract between that organization and him or his marketing arm, they may be allowed not to market them any longer. Isn't the mention of burning just a bit extreme?
 
VALuvsMKwan said:
Depending on the provisions of any contract between that organization and him or his marketing arm, they may be allowed not to market them any longer. Isn't the mention of burning just a bit extreme?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty much expecting these people whatever the accusations against them to be put on some distant island and never spoken of again.

Honestly, this is serious stuff and it is being handled in a terrible way that is heading towards disaster. And there's no way for any authority to take charge of it.

And before you accuse me of being a bit extreme, are you sure no one is going to come forward and remember something you did EVER?

I'm hardly one to defend sexual harassment but there's no guidelines for this at all. If this doesn't make people uncomfortable, I wonder what other mob actions they are up for?

And FTR not a one of the people accused of anything means a rat's ass to me and the rights of men aren't my biggest concern either. But what we're seeing is out of control and I just wonder where else this kind of accuse and punish action will turn up next.
 
BlueRidge said:
I'm pretty much expecting these people whatever the accusations against them to put on some distant island and never spoken of again.

Honestly, this is serious stuff and it is being handled in a terrible way that is heading towards disaster. And there's no way for any authority to take charge of it.

And before you accuse me of being a bit extreme, are you sure no one is going to come forward and remember something you did EVER?

I'm hardly one to defend sexual harassment but there's no guidelines for this at all. If this doesn't make people uncomfortable, I wonder what other mob actions they are up for?
Click to expand...

1. No, I am not sure. Thank you for asking.

2. By "they" in your question regarding burning of books, I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that you were referring to MPR, aka Minnesota Public Radio, as "they". Yes, I do happen to believe that suggest the burning of anyone's, much less Mr. Keillor's, books by such an entity might be considered extreme - at least in my opinion.

3. In situations which have not happened before, there are often not guidelines. This appears to be something of a cultural and societal revolution in terms of many who have not felt empowered and have felt marginalized, trampled, beaten down or worse. For better or worse, and not defending the worse, revolutions often have casualties and mob rule.

I share your concerns to a degree about how much those who have been accused may be treated as pariahs for the rest of their lives, particularly with instantaneous media coverage and sharing without regard for fact-checking or reflection. Welcome to our lives and the world of nearly 2018.

And finally, am I cynical? Indeed so, and increasingly so.
 
Is there a difference between burning books and destroying tapes? Granted MPR didn't say they would destroy the tapes of his shows, and you may be right it may not have been punitive at all and I read it that way without knowing it. But I do wonder, what happens to the art of someone accused? Where is the line drawn? Does no one ever again hear Garrison Keilor's shows because he did something his employer believes he should be fired for? I don't know but I wonder where this is going and I feel like no one knows how to sort it out.

I'm more cynical than you are. I see Donald Trump exploiting what's happening and expect it all isn't going to just go down like the revolutionaries are hoping. Revolutions result in counter-revolutions and I do wonder if the Roy Moore's of the world won't be having the last laugh when this all turns into a puritanizing anti-sex crusade that the rightwing can join right in on without having lost a bit of political power.

(Just FTR again, I've never been able to stand Garrison Keilor's faked-up, hoked-up shit)
 
I doubt that you are more cynical than I - the same thoughts have crossed my mind regarding the counter-revolutions.

As for the tapes and the shows - there is always an underground, in spite of (or because of) Fahrenheit 451.
 
Well this is only Garrison Keilor's claim but he says,

“I put my hand on a woman’s bare back,” he wrote. “I meant to pat her back after she told me about her unhappiness and her shirt was open and my hand went up it about six inches. She recoiled. I apologized. I sent her an email of apology later and she replied that she had forgiven me and not to think about it. We were friends. We continued to be friendly right up until her lawyer called.”
Click to expand...

Well surely he did it intentionally and just as surely he is the same as Harvey Weinstein. The latter really bothers me. I don't want to minimize harassment, I don't want to be touched when I haven't invited it but the headlines make it seem a hand on the back is the same as serially abusive behavior. If we say it isn't are we enabling sexual harassment? Isn't there some way to sort this out?
 
Last edited:
BlueRidge said:
Revolutions result in counter-revolutions and I do wonder if the Roy Moore's of the world won't be having the last laugh when this all turns into a puritanizing anti-sex crusade that the rightwing can join right in on without having lost a bit of political power.
Click to expand...

I don't think we will see an anti-sex push back but instead, more anti-feminism views and more men's rights activism. And two years from now, all the sexual harassers will again be sexual harassers because the same power structures will still be in play and we will have moved our frenzy to something else.
 
I'm waiting now for accusations against Mr. Rogers. Apparently just about every single famous man does stuff like this. :rolleyes:
 
“I put my hand on a woman’s bare back,” he wrote. “I meant to pat her back after she told me about her unhappiness and her shirt was open and my hand went up it about six inches. She recoiled. I apologized. I sent her an email of apology later and she replied that she had forgiven me and not to think about it. We were friends. We continued to be friendly right up until her lawyer called.”
Click to expand...

If I was a famous person, I think I'd have a "one table policy" for whenever I am in the public. I would want one table between me and anyone I came across. You can take a photo with me, but there would be no touching. And I will be on this side of the table and you will remain on that side of the table. Plus I think I might make sure I had a personal assistant with me whenever I was outside of my home and their main responsibility would be to film me at all times and to repeatedly state that anyone who gets within two meters of me must back away immediately. And they must repeat that phrase until no one is within two meters of me.
 
LilJen said:
Apparently just about every single famous man does stuff like this. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I would remove the "famous" from that.

We are supposed to believe that men can't control their "urges"; and don't know anything about appropriate behaviour.
Meanwhile, women "invite" this; or, are expected/compelled to comply, if they expect to accomplish anything in their professional lives.

UGH!
 
OMG, details of the Matt Lauer allegations:

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/362418-matt-lauer-accused-of-pattern-of-sexual-harassment-report

This is DISGUSTING. What is WRONG with these men?? They think they can just do anything, it seems. UGGHH.

And yet, today when I went to the rink, the news was on, and a woman started complaining about the John Conyers allegations (and all the current sexual harassment scandals). She was like--"Well, times were different back then," and "We sometimes make inappropriate remarks at my work too, what's the difference," and "Are they just supposed to fire all these men?" etc., etc. :rolleyes::angryfire
 
clairecloutier said:
And yet, today when I went to the rink, the news was on, and a woman started complaining about the John Conyers allegations (and all the current sexual harassment scandals). She was like--"Well, times were different back then," and "We sometimes make inappropriate remarks at my work too, what's the difference," and "Are they just supposed to fire all these men?" etc., etc. :rolleyes::angryfire
Click to expand...

Well, there's a difference between firing someone for an allegation about one incident, or even a handful of incidents, that happened in the previous century, vs. firing someone for a pattern of multiple incidents that happened recently.
 
PeterG said:
If I was a famous person, I think I'd have a "one table policy" for whenever I am in the public. I would want one table between me and anyone I came across. You can take a photo with me, but there would be no touching. And I will be on this side of the table and you will remain on that side of the table. Plus I think I might make sure I had a personal assistant with me whenever I was outside of my home and their main responsibility would be to film me at all times and to repeatedly state that anyone who gets within two meters of me must back away immediately. And they must repeat that phrase until no one is within two meters of me.
Click to expand...

I can't stand Pence, but isn't what you are stating above just taking his "no dinners alone with females" to the next degree of paranoia?
 
clairecloutier said:
"Are they just supposed to fire all these men?" etc., etc. :rolleyes::angryfire
Click to expand...

Yes.
I know of one organization (not a famous one and not one that's associated with any of the recent stories) where the supervisors concluded the harassing behaviour had become so much of a norm that it wouldn't be changed with e.g. education or training. So that's what they did. They fired everybody at and below a certain level, and made damn sure that the candidates applying for the new postings knew why those jobs were vacant.
 
clairecloutier said:
OMG, details of the Matt Lauer allegations:

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/362418-matt-lauer-accused-of-pattern-of-sexual-harassment-report

This is DISGUSTING. What is WRONG with these men?? They think they can just do anything, it seems. UGGHH.

And yet, today when I went to the rink, the news was on, and a woman started complaining about the John Conyers allegations (and all the current sexual harassment scandals). She was like--"Well, times were different back then," and "We sometimes make inappropriate remarks at my work too, what's the difference," and "Are they just supposed to fire all these men?" etc., etc. :rolleyes::angryfire
Click to expand...

Methinks that Mr. Lauer may be facing a divorce suit in which he would really, really want to settle for big $ rather than have depositions taken.
 
overedge said:
Yes.
I know of one organization (not a famous one and not one that's associated with any of the recent stories) where the supervisors concluded the harassing behaviour had become so much of a norm that it wouldn't be changed with e.g. education or training. So that's what they did. They fired everybody at and below a certain level, and made damn sure that the candidates applying for the new postings knew why those jobs were vacant.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's amazing when people say, "But we can't fire all those people." Yes, yes, you can. If folks were stealing, you'd fire all of them. I know a guy who went into a company where the adjustors were stealing and told them to quit now before charges were brought. They all resigned. Well, harassment is basically like that - preventing the victims from doing their jobs - is stealing their time and talent from the employer. It isn't that hard to connect the dots.
 
After watching the round of entertainment shows, its telling the way this is being reported. If I didn't know better, I would think the man died or something the way they are talking about him, showing retrospects of his career, everyone is so devastated, and crying. Personally, its not surprising to me. I've always thought he had a disdain for women.
 
clairecloutier said:
OMG, details of the Matt Lauer allegations:

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/362418-matt-lauer-accused-of-pattern-of-sexual-harassment-report

This is DISGUSTING. What is WRONG with these men?? They think they can just do anything, it seems. UGGHH
Click to expand...

The part that "he had a button installed under his desk that allowed him to lock the door from inside the room" is so creepy. I would be freaked out if I went to a man's office and tried to leave and realized he had locked the door from his desk - even if he wasn't going to do anything harmful. :scream:

VALuvsMKwan said:
I can't stand Pence, but isn't what you are stating above just taking his "no dinners alone with females" to the next degree of paranoia?
Click to expand...

I'm surprised we are this far along in this thread before someone brought up the "Mike Pence/Billy Graham Rule" - I have heard discussions elsewhere about the need for people to create boundaries in their professional lives.

But I agree substantially more with this point of view - this NY Times Op-Ed is from a woman who works as an editor-at-large at Christianity Today: A Christian Case Against the Pence Rule.

skatfan said:
Methinks that Mr. Lauer may be facing a divorce suit in which he would really, really want to settle for big $ rather than have depositions taken.
Click to expand...

I thought that Lauer was in a nasty divorce dispute with his second wife years ago - I knew they reconciled, but it was apparently common knowledge that Lauer regularly cheated on his wife.
 
Last edited:
PeterG said:
If I was a famous person, I think I'd have a "one table policy" for whenever I am in the public. I would want one table between me and anyone I came across. You can take a photo with me, but there would be no touching. And I will be on this side of the table and you will remain on that side of the table. Plus I think I might make sure I had a personal assistant with me whenever I was outside of my home and their main responsibility would be to film me at all times and to repeatedly state that anyone who gets within two meters of me must back away immediately. And they must repeat that phrase until no one is within two meters of me.
Click to expand...
You are assuming that tons of women are basically making shit up about innocent encounters. Even though there is ample evidence that this is not the case in pretty much of all these situations. Most of the men have admitted they did these things. Even Garrison Keillor said the encounter happened. All he disputed was his motives not that he touched someone inappropriately.

All a real man has to is not grope women, whip out his penis in front of them, lore them up to his hotel room under false pretenses in order to masturbate in front of them or otherwise force himself on them. This is not hard to do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)

Similar threads

Sylvia
Laura Lepistö's autobiography published April 2024 in Finland
Replies
6
Views
4K
Frau Muller
Frau Muller
TAHbKA
Vaytsekhovskaya's interview with Moskvina
Replies
11
Views
3K
AxelAnnie
AxelAnnie
A.H.Black
2002 Olympics - Men's Short Program
Replies
10
Views
4K
Bouffantrex
Bouffantrex
TAHbKA
Vaytsekhovskaya's interview with Pluschenko
2
Replies
32
Views
8K
Amantide
Amantide
TAHbKA
Samokhvalov's interview with Buyanova
Replies
8
Views
4K
rfisher
rfisher
Back
Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information