Gracie taking some time off to seek professional help

[chapis]

And if I were to give anyone credit for helping her to see that now is always the right time to get help, it would be Julia's announcement this week.

.

THIS, I doubt that Gracie cares about Dave, but if us as fans were shocked about Yulia´s news, I bet it caused an impression in figure skaters too, especially about Yulia publicly declaring to have a problem. Yulia had no obligation to make her condition public, but she did, and if that helps other figure skaters not to feel alone and give them courage to seek help, I'm glad she did.

 

[Aerobicidal]

Don't you kind of contribute the same thing with your pseudo-identity sometimes?

No, I don't. And if you want to discuss why or why not, you can PM me.

 

[LKR]

Dave tweeted USFS wouldn't send her to a Senior B (Nepela), but whether USFS could pull her Grand Prixs was "unclear." Before today's news broke, he never stated she was going to lose her Grand Prixs.

Also, in regards to the jacket incident, Gracie requested Frank Carroll to throw her jacket in the trash; it was not his idea. I'm not blaming Gracie for what was obviously a difficult moment for her. Preferably he shouldn't have honored her request, but who knows what their exchange was like. I would rather not place blame on Frank without knowing all the details. However, I agree more that the manner in which he fired Gracie was unfortunate.

 

[jenniferlyon]

Also, in regards to the jacket incident, Gracie requested Frank Carroll to throw her jacket in the trash; it was not his idea. I'm not blaming Gracie for what was obviously a difficult moment for her. Preferably he shouldn't have honored her request, but who knows what their exchange was like. I would rather not place blame on Frank without knowing all the details. However, I agree more that the manner in which he fired Gracie was unfortunate.

No, it wasn't Frank's idea to throw away Gracie's jacket. However, it was his idea to speak to the media about it, which I thought was petty and unnecessary.

 

[bardtoob]

Isn't this about Gracie now?

Maybe Frank should have kept the jacket and made it into a quilt for swaddling Gracie, but his opportunity was 7.5 months ago and I do not expect him to issue a public statement to us, given his coaching relationship with Gracie ended 7.5 months ago and he was never the star of Team Gracie.

 

[LKR]

Yes, it is. Regarding Gracie, mental health is no joke. I commend her for seeking help and publicly admitting that not everything is OK. An incredibly brave thing to do, and I can only hope it will encourage others who are suffering, within the sport or not. Frankly, I respect her more for this decision than for any of her (considerable) accomplishments in skating.

 

[Frau Muller]

Have any of the recent articles specified the nature of Gracie's mental issues? Is it substance abuse? Eating disorder (a la Julia L)? General depression/blues? Other? She shot up out of nowhere when she won the JrGP-Poland in fall 2011. Too much, too soon? Whatever is behind the problem, her story should make for an interesting book, many years from now.

 

[Skibean]

I just went off on Dave on Facebook because he of course had to post an article about Gracie's dad and insist this was part of her problem.

I'm a physician and medical educator. I rely on evidence for my work. And while he may be right, he has no evidence to prove any of what he's blathering about. And this isn't about Gracie, it's about him being the center of attention. I hope skaters tell him to F off when he asks for interviews in the future.

I'm not a Gracie fan, and I've watched maybe 2 TSL interviews in my lifetime, but he's pissing me off. I hope USFS yanks his credentials or he gets his nasty little ass kicked out of the skating world otherwise. No skater deserves this crap from a skanky little celebrity wannabe.

New to posting, but have lurked for years. Yazmeen- you've posted several times about Gracie being a brat and how you dislike her,yet now you suddenly care that an article was posted about her dad? Wasn't this article, or a similar one, linked on fsu recently? People in glass houses.

Lots of sour grapes about Dave in a thread that should be about Gracie. This stuff has been talked about in secret forums on boards for years. But because someone discusses it in the open suddenly he is the baddest man in figure skating.
I wish Gracie the best. Carry on

 

[Tavi]

Have any of the recent articles specified the nature of Gracie's mental issues? Is it substance abuse? Eating disorder (a la Julia L)? General depression/blues? Other? She shot up out of nowhere when she won the JrGP-Poland in fall 2011. Too much, too soon? Whatever is behind the problem, her story should make for an interesting book, many years from now.

Seriously? Why would you even speculate publicly about such a private matter?

 

[skatesindreams]

Seriously? Why would you even speculate publicly about such a private matter?

You spoke for me!

 

[VGThuy]

New to posting, but have lurked for years. Yazmeen- you've posted several times about Gracie being a brat and how you dislike her,yet now you suddenly care that an article was posted about her dad? Wasn't this article, or a similar one, linked on fsu recently? People in glass houses.

Lots of sour grapes about Dave in a thread that should be about Gracie. This stuff has been talked about in secret forums on boards for years. But because someone discusses it in the open suddenly he is the baddest man in figure skating.
I wish Gracie the best. Carry on

Interesting timing to post. Anyway, let's just say it's the totality of his behavior and how the Gracie-related tweets fit in with everything else Dave has done. And though your post is blasting others for taking attention away from Gracie, you choose to dedicate your post to defending Dave Lease under the guise of talking about Gracie. Interesting indeed.

 

[UGG]

Why do people assume "seeking professional help" means depression? She could be seeing a sports psychologist. That was the first thing I thought of considering she was quoted saying it was on the ice she did not feel like herself. Coping with pressure etc...are issues they help with.

 

[kwanatic]

I've never been Gracie's biggest fan but it was heartbreaking to watch her last season. She looked so beat down and defeated. I'm glad she's taking the time she needs to get the help she needs.

As for Dave and TSL, I've kinda tuned them out over the last season. When Jenny was there TSL was more like People Magazine; a bit gossipy but there was real substance there as well. Their brand of constructive cattiness was fun and entertaining. Since Jenny left TSL is now more like Star Magazine; very gossipy and trashy with only kernels substance. It's not exactly the nicest thing in the world but then again if it's your brand to be catty/gossipy about figure skaters, that's what you do. Ducks quack, cows moo. I don't think that makes Dave the devil incarnate...just a bit of a b*tch, really.

As fans we tend to treat some of these skaters like they are porcelain dolls; Gracie is vulnerable right now but I seriously doubt gossip from Dave Lease is going to break her. She is smarter and tougher than that. I don't know what will happen with Gracie for the rest of the season. Whatever happens I just hope she takes care of herself. Figure skating is just a sport. Gracie's health (physical or mental, she didn't specify what she's seeking help for) is much more important than a piece of metal on a ribbon.

 

[MK's Winter]

No, it wasn't Frank's idea to throw away Gracie's jacket. However, it was his idea to speak to the media about it, which I thought was petty and unnecessary.

Frank Carroll is anything but petty. He was someone involved with her everyday. He is also someone who tried to help her. Of course he is going to talk about it- as a coach he is expected to answer for her showing and behavior (Gracie throwing her jacket at him, not listening to instructions at the boards during practice, looking distracted) at Nationals. Gracie had put things out in the media prior to Nationals- not being over Worlds and public expectations on weight. When media witnesses her throwing a jacket at him- what do you want the man to do. Gracie was not ready to seek help then. Frank obviously felt frustrated and helpless. And everything he has said has been nothing but supportive since this new broke. Frank, Christine Brennan, Phil Hersh, and TSL have written things supporting her. And say what you want about Dave's tweets- he obviously received Champs Camp feedback and reported it. He gave his opinion on her Olympic season based off of that feedback. It's an opinion you don't have to like it but he is allowed to have one- just like the rest of us are. This is a sport and it should be covered like one. Gracie has done something unprecedented and courageous. I think she is putting mental clarity (whatever it may be) over anyone's tweets or opinions. And let's be real no journalist has sunk to the low of some posters in forums, twitter and Facebook trolls.

 

[Coco]

It's fascinating to me, though, that three ladies who were Senior National team members who went to Frank either quit the sport or went into huge downward spirals just before the end of their time with him. If that were happening to any other coach, the coach would be under MAJOR scrutiny, and rightly so.

 

[BittyBug]

Maybe those ladies went to Frank precisely because something was wrong and they were hoping he would be their miracle worker. Carroll hardly seems to be a coach who breaks skaters.

 

[once_upon]

Have any of the recent articles specified the nature of Gracie's mental issues? Is it substance abuse? Eating disorder (a la Julia L)? General depression/blues? Other? She shot up out of nowhere when she won the JrGP-Poland in fall 2011. Too much, too soon? Whatever is behind the problem, her story should make for an interesting book, many years from now.

Depression is NOT the Blues. Depression is a serious illness caused by the lack of the serotonin in brain chemistry. It can be and has been a deadly disease. It is not a get up and be happy cure. Unfortunately since there is no one treatment or medication (like diabetes) it get stigmatized as just a simple I'm feeling down or blue about days.

If she has MDD, then I hope she finds something that helps. The issue is not the illness or problem itself, it's people trying to do armchair psychiatry or diagnosis. I don't pay attention to TSL as it seems to be a gossip rag.

Leave Gracie alone. I don't particularly like her skating nor her personality, but we are not qualified to do armchair medicine.

 

[kwanatic]

It's fascinating to me, though, that three ladies who were Senior National team members who went to Frank either quit the sport or went into huge downward spirals just before the end of their time with him. If that were happening to any other coach, the coach would be under MAJOR scrutiny, and rightly so.

Frank has proven himself as a good coach. It all comes down to the way the skater and the coach pair together. Michelle/Frank were a great combination. She had that innate competitiveness and focus that allowed her to thrive under his method of coaching for the majority of her career.

Mirai/Frank and Gracie/Frank were not good long term combinations. Frank gained Gracie as a student the same way he gained Mirai: in an Olympic season a couple of months before nationals. He improved both of them immensely in terms of their presentation and performance and don't forget, Frank coached Mirai and Gracie to the highest point in their respective careers (thus far) with both placing 4th at the Olympics.

As they grew older, what was working for them with Frank stopped working. Both of women struggled with nerves and needed a different approach to get past it. Unfortunately Frank couldn't help them. That's not his fault and it's not theirs either.

Gracie's time with Frank was well spent. She became a more aesthetically pleasing skater and matured very well under him. After Worlds it was obvious things had changed for Gracie in a way that Frank couldn't fix. They no longer connected. Gracie needed a different kind of coaching and Frank wasn't able to provide it.

Sometimes people are seasonal; they are in your life for a specific amount of time for you to learn something or grow, and then they are gone. Frank was a seasonal person for Gracie. She learned what she needed to learn from him and now she's moved on.

Frank is not a miracle worker. He could only do so much. That's not a bad reflection on him.

 

[chapis]

Depression is NOT the Blues. Depression is a serious illness caused by the lack of the serotonin in brain chemistry. It can be and has been a deadly disease. It is not a get up and be happy cure. Unfortunately since there is no one treatment or medication (like diabetes) it get stigmatized as just a simple I'm feeling down or blue about days.

.

well, there are antidepressants.

 

[skatesindreams]

well, there are antidepressants.

We have no business speculating about Gracie's situation; or what "treatment" may be appropriate.
If, at some future time, she chooses to discuss this, we may learn more.
Until then, it's gossip; and not helpful!

 

[Alilou]

well, there are antidepressants.

Oh like they're a magic medicine with no side effects
Taking anti-depressents is not like taking aspirin for a bit of a headache. I'll just repeat what @once_upon said -Depression is a serious illness. It's not so easily fixed.

 

[chapis]

We have no business speculating about Gracie's situation; or what "treatment" may be appropriate.
If, at some future time, she chooses to discuss this, we may learn more.
Until then, it's gossip; and not helpful!

I am not speculating nothing, someone said that there is not treatment or medicine for Depression and I was just saying that exist medicine for depression, just go to FDA or DSM V, the information is there.

 

[chapis]

Oh like they're a magic medicine with no side effects
Taking anti-depressents is not like taking aspirin for a bit of a headache. I'll just repeat what @once_upon said -Depression is a serious illness. It's not so easily fixed.

Aspirin has side effects too (the amount of people who come bleeding because they think it's harmless), actually, all drugs have side effects .
And Depression is not a minor disease like a bit headache, people die from depression, and of people who do not die, many of them end up with their lives ruined, same their families, usually the more severe the disease, you need a more aggressive treatment, risk-benefit

 

[kwanfan1818]

well, there are antidepressants.

And unlike medicine for diabetes, for most people, not just outliers, some might work, and both the diagnosis and the definition of "work" are not the result of or success shown by a blood test.

The narrative at the time was that Gold had come to an impasse with her former coach, and that USFS chose Carroll for Gold partly based on timing, which isn't ideal for either coach or skater unless there's serendipity. Also people go to coaches who are not the best for either because the coaches' current students have had success, like Michigan and Montreal are the magic bullet, and to the flavor-of-the-month choreographers.

 

[bardtoob]

It's fascinating to me, though, that three ladies who were Senior National team members who went to Frank either quit the sport or went into huge downward spirals just before the end of their time with him. If that were happening to any other coach, the coach would be under MAJOR scrutiny, and rightly so.

The sport is very hard on ladies.

Thomas, Ivanova, Lipnitskaya, Lisa Ervin, Kerrigan, Harding, and Bobek had disastrous stories ... Hamill, Zayak, Chin, Kondrasova, Janet Lynn, Chen Lu, Kirk and Flatt flirted with disaster. Even Kwan, Lipinski, and Caroline Zhang ultimately had hip surgery. Trenary and Holly Cook were essentially ejected from the sport by the ISU Council cutting out figures from competition. I also would not say how Meissner left the sport was exactly fair.

Who came out okay? Fleming, Fratianne, Sumners, Yamaguchi, Kadavy, Cohen, Sarah Hughes, and Emily Hughes.

ETA: Somebody did blow up Butryskaya's car, but I don't know that it is skating related.

 

[Skibean]

Interesting timing to post. Anyway, let's just say it's the totality of his behavior and how the Gracie-related tweets fit in with everything else Dave has done. And though your post is blasting others for taking attention away from Gracie, you choose to dedicate your post to defending Dave Lease under the guise of talking about Gracie. Interesting indeed.

Pointing out the hypocrisy of certain posters and topics deemed appropriate for the private forum vs secret forums people have to pay for is hardly defending one person over another. Yazmeen has been bashing Gracie for years. Suddenly she's worried about what's appropriate to post about her, but posting nasty things about her when she was a minor was okay? Pot. Kettle. Black. Back to lurking now.

 

[Kecasyl]

The sport is very hard on ladies.

Thomas, Ivanova, Lipnitskaya, Lisa Ervin, Kerrigan, Harding, and Bobek had disastrous stories ... Hamill, Zayak, Chin, Kondrasova, Janet Lynn, Chen Lu, Kirk and Flatt flirted with disaster. Even Kwan, Lipinski, and Caroline Zhang ultimately had hip surgery. Trenary and Holly Cook were essentially ejected from the sport by the ISU Council cutting out figures from competition. I also would not say how Meissner left the sport was exactly fair.

Who came out okay? Fleming, Fratianne, Sumners, Yamaguchi, Kadavy, Cohen, Sarah Hughes, and Emily Hughes.

Don't forget Czisny, as it was unfair that the hip issues forced her to leave too soon, as well!

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

The sport is very hard on ladies.

Thomas, Ivanova, Lipnitskaya, Lisa Ervin, Kerrigan, Harding, and Bobek had disastrous stories ... Hamill, Zayak, Chin, Kondrasova, Janet Lynn, Chen Lu, Kirk and Flatt flirted with disaster. .

And who can forget Oksana Bauil. Mental health issues in ladies figure skating are certainly no joke.

 

[MK's Winter]

And who can forget Oksana Bauil. Mental health issues in ladies figure skating are certainly no joke.

Oksana had a lot happen her life. Abandonment from her father, the death of her mother, really fast success competitively. Not to mention the lure of big pro money. One of the things the USFS could do better is provide assistance to its skaters and families on how to handle these things. I think competitive stakes are higher now that there is no pro circuit. Outside of Olympic elite skating- there is not a lot of avenues for skaters to take. They have to make the money now. The USFS has performance clauses and rightly so but I think athletes deserve support services from them as well. They represent our country, the federation should represent their well being.

 

[Yazmeen]

New to posting, but have lurked for years. Yazmeen- you've posted several times about Gracie being a brat and how you dislike her,yet now you suddenly care that an article was posted about her dad? Wasn't this article, or a similar one, linked on fsu recently? People in glass houses.

Lots of sour grapes about Dave in a thread that should be about Gracie. This stuff has been talked about in secret forums on boards for years. But because someone discusses it in the open suddenly he is the baddest man in figure skating.
I wish Gracie the best. Carry on

I also find it interesting that you suddenly decide to post now. Note that I said I've never been a Gracie fan, I don't particularly care for her style. However, I find what Dave is doing very self-serving and geared toward self promotion, not necessarily being sympathetic toward Gracie. Do I think her Dad's situation is part of her issues? Yes, highly likely. Especially having written a lot on opioid abuse and having had a diagnostic imaging colleague whom I trained with years ago nearly ruining his career by helping himself to Schedule II painkillers from his hospital anesthesia dept. (As far as I know, he's turned things around and is doing fine). What really ticked me off is Dave bringing her dad into it without evidence that this is related to her decision. He's currently "all Gracie drama, all the time." And I sure as hell don't believe that this is being done in Gracie's best interest or it's "helping."

I don't have to be a fan of a skater to call a jerk a jerk. Period.