Gracie taking some time off to seek professional help

[aftershocks]

And many disagree with you. This is a fan page. Fans speculate. What's "tacky" to some is freedom to others. We care about our favorite skaters. Nothing "tacky" in caring and speculating.

^^ No matter that such stuff is done on some skating forums doesn't make it any less tacky. We're all interested to a degree in insider news and happenings surrounding skaters and the skating world, but there are lines that can be crossed into some very dodgy territory. I'm not claiming to be squeaky clean myself, but there are a few posters here who have always been quite kind and very respectful across the board. And plenty of others who have not held to such high standards.

How would you feel personally as a young person (no matter whether you are a well known athlete or not) having a family member's serious problems gossiped about in online venues combined with OTT speculation about how that family member's issues have affected your competitive career? There's plenty that has crossed the line already in discussions about Gracie. Bringing her father into it is beyond the bounds IMO. From personal experience involving loved ones, I know it can be hurtful, no matter that there seems to be a negative predilection to gossip about the misfortune of others.

 

[Jammers]

Exactly what does professional help mean?

 

[Sylvia]

Exactly what does professional help mean?

Edited - Again, this is not publicly known right now except by those who are close to Gracie.

 

[Jammers]

I feel like from the start when she burst onto the scene in 2011-12 as this powerful explosive jumper and the hype started and people were already saying she was the savior of US Ladies skating that no one gave this girl the chance to develop at her own pace in any way. Since then for 5 years she has been trying to live up to other people's expectations and put way to much pressure on herself and unfortunately she didn't have the kind of mindset of someone like Michelle or Yuna to handle it and it's come to this. The best thing for her to do is probably end her career since it's caused so many problems that she doesn't need. A sad story indeed.

 

[RD]

I feel like from the start when she burst onto the scene in 2011-12 as this powerful explosive jumper and the hype started and people were already saying she was the savior of US Ladies skating that no one gave this girl the chance to develop at her own pace in any way. Since then for 5 years she has been trying to live up to other people's expectations and put way to much pressure on herself and unfortunately she didn't have the kind of mindset of someone like Michelle or Yuna to handle it and it's come to this. The best thing for her to do is probably end her career since it's caused so many problems that she doesn't need. A sad story indeed.

I feel it's like a broken record - the skating world (as a collective entity, NOT individuals or even groups) seems to never learn from the past...someone promising breaks onto the scene, the hype goes into overdrive, the expectations pile up, said skater cracks under weight of said expectations, ends career prematurely. Skating world then wonders what happened. New promising skater appears on horizon, rinse and repeat. At some point one has to think maybe it's best to just let them develop at their own pace. Now, would it prevent something like this from happening? Of course not. But it may reduce its likelihood.

 

[leafygreens]

What has she and Marina been doing for the past half a year..... Im curious how training went and what they did accomplish besides choosing music.

Did it work, did it not work? Did Gracie like her, did she not? And what did they work on. Just a bit curious as to that.

I think if the results were promising, we would have already heard what they have been working on.

And many disagree with you. This is a fan page. Fans speculate. What's "tacky" to some is freedom to others. We care about our favorite skaters. Nothing "tacky" in caring and speculating.

And may I remind the Speculation Police that this forum is called the Great Skate DEBATE. You can't hide truth from being talked about just because you don't like it.

 

[misskarne]

Frank Carroll is anything but petty. He was someone involved with her everyday. He is also someone who tried to help her. Of course he is going to talk about it- as a coach he is expected to answer for her showing and behavior (Gracie throwing her jacket at him, not listening to instructions at the boards during practice, looking distracted) at Nationals. Gracie had put things out in the media prior to Nationals- not being over Worlds and public expectations on weight. When media witnesses her throwing a jacket at him- what do you want the man to do. Gracie was not ready to seek help then. Frank obviously felt frustrated and helpless.

Um, maybe not throw her jacket in the trash and then vent to the media about her? JFC, it's not that hard, he's supposed to be this mature respected figure, he could have very easily said to the press "Gracie has some private issues to deal with and that's all I'll be saying" instead of acting the way he did, and I will add: if any other coach had behaved that way to their student at Nationals, the roasting and lambasting would have been enormous. Why should Carroll get a pass just because he's Carroll?

And let's be real no journalist has sunk to the low of some posters in forums, twitter and Facebook trolls.

Considering Lease is a twitter/Facebook troll...

If this forum is not the appropriate place in which to speculate, then what is? This is the virtual living room of fs fans. Not a court house or a legal center that can be sued. I applaud Dave Lease for talking about possible specifics. I also applaud the Gracies and Julias of the sport for taking measures to try to improve their respective situations.

Why am I not surprised that you don't seem to understand why the speculation is inappropriate...

 

[MK's Winter]

Um, maybe not throw her jacket in the trash and then vent to the media about her? JFC, it's not that hard, he's supposed to be this mature respected figure, he could have very easily said to the press "Gracie has some private issues to deal with and that's all I'll be saying" instead of acting the way he did, and I will add: if any other coach had behaved that way to their student at Nationals, the roasting and lambasting would have been enormous. Why should Carroll get a pass just because he's Carroll?"


With Gracie's current situation I can't look back and pass judgment on her behavior. But I also extend that to Frank-who tried everything he could to help her. He had a reaction to a long string of behavior in KC. Was it malice-No. Frustration-yes. It happens. It's done.

 

[el henry]

From ice dancer Joe Johnson on Twitter:

"Friendly reminder but that your unsolicited hot take on an athlete's body/mental state will neither help them, nor reflect well on you"
and :
"This is a pretty universal concept, but one of our own is having a hard time right now and y'all better give her some peace/time to heal"

https://twitter.com/JoeJohnsonIce/st...67149785731072

 

[once_upon]

well, there are antidepressants.

Obviously you know nothing about Major Depressive Disorder, the complexity of treatment, the failure rates of using a single antidepressant or SSRI. The need for multiple drug therapies and or psychotherapy or any number of treatment that may or may not work.

We DO NOT know any reason Gracie might be taking a break, other than what she has said. We have ZERO business trying to do armchair diagnosis

 

[Coco]

And may I remind the Speculation Police that this forum is called the Great Skate DEBATE. You can't hide truth from being talked about just because you don't like it.

Your inability to acknowledge the huge difference between speculating on what music someone is skating to, or should skate to, and speculating on how close they are to a nervous breakdown or what meds they might need, makes me view all of our posts with skepticism at best.

 

[Tavi]

And many disagree with you. This is a fan page. Fans speculate. What's "tacky" to some is freedom to others. We care about our favorite skaters. Nothing "tacky" in caring and speculating.

Of course some people disagree with me. That's their right - it's your right - but I also have the right to comment on what you say. And yes, fans speculate, but as I said earlier, in my opinion, your speculation - which you laughably justify as "caring" - crossed a line. Gracie is a minor - a very minor - public figure, but she's as much entitled to her privacy as you are. If you wouldn't like someone speculating publicly that maybe you're a drug addict, then perhaps you should consider that the next time you fling those words over the Internet about a young woman that you claim to care about.

 

[aftershocks]

... And may I remind the Speculation Police that this forum is called the Great Skate DEBATE. You can't hide truth from being talked about just because you don't like it.

Yadda yadda ... speculative gossip you can call whatever you want. I'm not sure what gossip about media reports involving a skater's relative has to do with 'truth being talked about.' It has even less to do with figure skating. In any case, I'm simply stating how I feel, which doesn't affect the free will of others. To each their own karma.

Like I said, IMO gossiping about a skater's family member's troubles is hurtful and beyond the bounds. And yep, everyone can do exactly as they please, as they will. Maybe doing so beats facing one's own personal challenges.

 

[chapis]

Obviously you know nothing about Major Depressive Disorder, the complexity of treatment, the failure rates of using a single antidepressant or SSRI. The need for multiple drug therapies and or psychotherapy or any number of treatment that may or may not work.

We DO NOT know any reason Gracie might be taking a break, other than what she has said. We have ZERO business trying to do armchair diagnosis

In what moment I was trying to do armchair diagnosis?. I think my point was very clear, someone said: there is not medicine for Depression, Then I simply responded: there are medicine (antidepressants), I was not trying to do other point. You are saying that exist medicine too, if those drugs work or not, or how difficult is the treatment, is other topic that I did not touch in my post.

 

[bardtoob]

This thread is over the top now.

 

[once_upon]

In what moment I was trying to do armchair diagnosis?. I think my point was very clear, someone said: there is not medicine for Depression, Then I simply responded: there are medicine (antidepressants), I was not trying to do other point. You are saying that exist medicine too, if those drugs work or not, or how difficult is the treatment, is other topic that I did not touch in my post.

I believe you were referring to my comment about the MDD and difficulty in treating, but whatever. You think it is about a magic cure.

 

[overedge]

I feel it's like a broken record - the skating world (as a collective entity, NOT individuals or even groups) seems to never learn from the past...someone promising breaks onto the scene, the hype goes into overdrive, the expectations pile up, said skater cracks under weight of said expectations, ends career prematurely. Skating world then wonders what happened. New promising skater appears on horizon, rinse and repeat. At some point one has to think maybe it's best to just let them develop at their own pace. Now, would it prevent something like this from happening? Of course not. But it may reduce its likelihood.

It's not just people involved directly in the skating world. I remember a post on here, when Gracie was just starting to be known, criticizing the way she shaped her eyebrows

 

[ninjapirate]

I feel it's like a broken record - the skating world (as a collective entity, NOT individuals or even groups) seems to never learn from the past...someone promising breaks onto the scene, the hype goes into overdrive, the expectations pile up, said skater cracks under weight of said expectations, ends career prematurely. Skating world then wonders what happened. New promising skater appears on horizon, rinse and repeat. At some point one has to think maybe it's best to just let them develop at their own pace. Now, would it prevent something like this from happening? Of course not. But it may reduce its likelihood.

I think things will get better... there are too many pretty good skaters who can do clean 7 triple programs now to get really get hyped up about anyone.

 

[ZilphaK]

Random digested thoughts:

TSL is/has been trying to put one foot into "real" journalistic reporting while keeping another foot firmly in gossip. That's a neat trick when it can be pulled off well. I don't think TSL is pulling it off well. There are competing and conflicting ethics and levels of trust between reader and reporter in journalism and gossip. I think DL broke faith with a lot of readers and skaters with those recent Tweets. I think there was a line crossed for a lot of people, and I think it's fairly awesome that the skating community is bringing this all up for discussion and debate.

As for this most recent article, I think it could have been written in about 500 fewer words and with 80% fewer breathless adjectives and 100% fewer quotes from Frank. It's no sin to temper reporting with proportion, perspective and, dare I say, compassion.

The skating community is small, compared to other sports, and our stars in their prime are kids and very young adults. I think the rules of engagement for fans and journalists should be different and regularly come up against scrutiny. In spite of cantankerous discussion going on now, I do honestly think the FSU members and administrators do a good job of checking and balancing each other. I know it can feel like flame wars at times, but one look at a site like Reddit or the YouTube comment streams, and it's suddenly very obvious how civilized and thoughtful our arguments actually are. That kind of check and balance doesn't always happen on social media, which is why, I think, it feels like more of a kick in the teeth when people post questionable crap.

We're all part of a culture that values guys chucking around balls/pucks over any value of our sport. And because skating fans are the underdogs in sports culture, I understand the anger and concern when it feels like we (including TSL or any of the skating reporters) are cannibalizing our own figure skating sports heroes.

I mean, I guess hockey player Ovechkin feels the sting of social media taunts and conjecture when Crosby wins the Stanley Cup one more time, but I have to think that handling public critique is a little different when you're a 30yo dude in a sport where people don't question whether it's even a sport and where the 10 million a year payday offers a steady source of affirmation.

In skating, especially now with social media, I think we fans now offer a lot of the affirmation to these young athletes, maybe more directly than in other sports, and I think that's wonderful. I think they do pay attention. And I think that this more direct and personal connection is where the concern for more caution comes from.

 

[Karpenko]

No, I don't. And if you want to discuss why or why not, you can PM me.

Why bother? Didn't you fool Aljona Savchenko last season?? I'm sure she loved knowing that being "old" is such a joke that it's cool for thousands of skating fans to laugh at a parody interview with Nina Mozer.

She took it down from Facebook once she realized it wasn't real, she didn't laugh and give you a high five for it.

It's not like the other skaters haven't seen your own "journalism". I highly doubt they think you're as cool for it as the posters here do, and probably look at it as unnecesssary drama/swipes at their personal lives/weight/etc and not something humorous while they train every single day. Ivana isn't exactly respected by the skaters.

Your fat jokes as Ivana Komova have probably made the rounds with skaters as well. You just don't realize it or want to admit it to yourself.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

IJS at the international championship level is so unforgiving. One error or omission, and it's over.

I guess knowing she is up against formidable competitors like Medvedeva and shortly, Zaigitova, the ladies' division is so tough. There is tremendous depth at the moment.

I hope Gracie finds the peace she needs.

 

[DimaToe]

I think this thread so far is as good enough of an example as any as to why skaters like Gracie Gold's career as an elite skater has been so tough. We all want the freedom to say whatever the f#ck we want about a skater but the moment sh!t hits the fan we try and blame the easiest target for whatever went wrong in said skater's career. As posters we find it tough to take criticism from other posters over the smallest of details yet we find it impossible to understand how criticizing an athlete's every move might harm them down the road. When someone spends the majority of their life trying to perfect those 6 minutes 50 seconds on the ice I can only imagine that having ebcouragement from the so called fans could be a great form of support when those around you are placing such high expectations about what the results of your hard work should look like. Yes we are all free to discuss whatever we want, but I think it'd be nice to think for a moment how it would feel if someone said the things that have been said on this board about G.Gold and other skaters if those things were said about your sister/daughter/yourself. While I do enjoy the snark that happens on FSU from time to time I believe that we are a smart enough of a community to see when we should back off. This is one of those moments. Given the reactions on social media from skaters over the last couple of weeks it seems obvious that some skaters do keep an active eye on forums like these. So why not try to back off for a bit?

 

[Aerobicidal]

@Karpenko If you think my Ivana Komova posts are "just kidding" as opposed to actually just kidding, you've accused me of being homophobic, racist, anti-Semitic, anti-American, pro-Putin, fascist, and sexist.

Although I find it somewhat amusing that those accusations may mean you dislike me even more than danafan, the idea that I would engage with any of it is ludicrous.

I've always found it horrifying when FSU posters make shitty comments about skaters being overweight, and if making fun of those posts is the same as reifying them, well, I just don't get it.

But I don't get a lot of stuff.

 

[VGThuy]

I just want to say @Aerobicidal Ivana Komova's article about Elena was from a place of Aerobidical thinking how ridiculous it was that people were commenting on Elena's weight. He was one of the most vocal posters here who critiqued through humor of all the insiders who kept making comments on her weight. I don't want his intentions getting twisted.

 

[The Fly On The Wall]

Exactly what does professional help mean?

You know what I'm hoping it means? That she's getting some help from a professional financial planner, investing her earnings wisely, sets herself up for life, and gives the skating community a giant middle finger and says, "Later, SUCKERS!!!!"

I'm not holding my breath, but it would be nice.

 

[analia]

To be honest, if Gracie doesn't want people to talk about her weight, then she shouldn't have let her team plug a story to a national news outlet about body image issue. The story was bound to be picked up here and elsewhere. Weight isn't even at the bottom of the list of issues she is dealing with it appears. Her team, if they truly care about her well-being and truly want to avoid unnecessary talks wouldn't have let her do so many shows in very public places in visibly bad athletic form or announce programs that might or might not exist or sign up for early season competitions knowing she isn't capable of doing them.
All the PR stints her team pulled this summer were bizarre and contradictory to reality. There are many ways to lay low but that's not what she has been doing all summer. Until this new bizarrely worded story about her both taking time off and preparing for grand prix and seeking unspecified professional help came out, it was quite reasonable for people to wonder why she was only jumping doubles the summer before the most important season of the quad. I'm very sympathetic to Gracie's struggle, but blaming internet speculation in this case makes no sense. Gracie's struggle started way before Dave Lease. Internet prosecuting Dave Lease can't solve her problems. I knew Dave Lease from gymnastics boards way back. He was open about having a long streak of depression when he was young as well. Not saying he doesn't ask for some of them but the amount of truly nasty things people say about Lease over the years really overshadows what Gracie is ever going to face.

 

[hanca]

I just want to say @Aerobicidal Ivana Komova's article about Elena was from a place of Aerobidical thinking how ridiculous it was that people were commenting on Elena's weight. He was one of the most vocal posters here who critiqued through humor of all the insiders who kept making comments on her weight. I don't want his intentions getting twisted.

His intentions may have been good, but that doesn't change anything on the fact that it is not quite as funny for the skaters to read it about themselves. I don't think Aliona was laughing, and if I was Ilynikh, I wouldn't be laughing either.

 

[GullyGirl84]

To be honest, if Gracie doesn't want people to talk about her weight, then she shouldn't have let her team plug a story to a national news outlet about body image issue. The story was bound to be picked up here and elsewhere. Weight isn't even at the bottom of the list of issues she is dealing with it appears. Her team, if they truly care about her well-being and truly want to avoid unnecessary talks wouldn't have let her do so many shows in very public places in visibly bad athletic form or announce programs that might or might not exist or sign up for early season competitions knowing she isn't capable of doing them.
All the PR stints her team pulled this summer were bizarre and contradictory to reality. There are many ways to lay low but that's not what she has been doing all summer. Until this new bizarrely worded story about her both taking time off and preparing for grand prix and seeking unspecified professional help came out, it was quite reasonable for people to wonder why she was only jumping doubles the summer before the most important season of the quad. I'm very sympathetic to Gracie's struggle, but blaming internet speculation in this case makes no sense. Gracie's struggle started way before Dave Lease. Internet prosecuting Dave Lease can't solve her problems. I knew Dave Lease from gymnastics boards way back. He was open about having a long streak of depression when he was young as well. Not saying he doesn't ask for some of them but the amount of truly nasty things people say about Lease over the years really overshadows what Gracie is ever going to face.

To be fair, I don't think that Gracie's team "pitched" the body image quote to outlets (if you are talking about her "Gracie Gold speaks out" story that got picked up by the Today show in the last few months). I believe that Gracie was appearing at a fitness convention on behalf of her contract for Red Bull (remember, these things are hard to get out of, even if she is struggling), and was asked the standard questions about body image and the story got picked up by outlets due to her Skate America quotes. As for her statement, I think it's perfect, and I think it's funny that people are obsessing over lines about still training for the grand prix. She'll announce that decision when she's ready. The only PR thing in the past 6 months or so that I questioned a little was that ESPN W article that seemed to be a complete revisionist history of her past few seasons in order to assure everyone that she was going to be "fine", but I can hardly fault her team for that.

As for Dave Lease, I have mixed feelings on the whole thing. It seemed to have a little of a "kicking someone when they are down" feeling when he made those tweets, because he wasn't doing a whole lot of "reporting" on anyone else, and the "Gracie didn't do her short program" was so vague that it just added to the speculation. And other tweets where he was presenting an opinion were stated as if they were facts. What I want to know is, who are his sources? The skating world is small, but Champs Camp is supposed to be pretty private, and he always seems to have some tidbits each year about what went on there. In terms of the father issues, Dave didn't "break" that story-it was linked on various skating message boards for a while before he linked to them, and Christine made mention of it in the article. Dave said that if it were another sport, like something with Serena Williams' father, that it would be talked about. But again, is it really a fair comparison? More than anything, I think it's very brave of Gracie to reference seeking professional help-she could have just said that she was taking time off (or her team could have made vague reference to some injury, etc.), and they must have known that this would open them up to more uncomfortable speculation in some ways. Gracie often gets criticized for having the "media friendly" answers, but I actually think she comes across as more candid than most in her interviews. If you listen to the TSL interview that she did a few years ago (though I know people seem to really have soured on them), she is very open about even the motivation issues she went through as part of her Olympic comedown from 2014.

Also: TBH, if I were being critical, I wish that Frank could have been a little more quiet in reference to Gracie. Last year's "she was in a deep deep depression" and "she was skating like shit" all seemed a bit unnecessary. He also made reference to Mirai's "emotional problems" after they split. I wondered why Christine went to Frank for an article quote and Marina was left out of it completely.

 

[ZilphaK]

Just want to go on record as saying I love the TSL interviews. They were always fun and informative, and the skaters and coaches would often give Dave a little "bite back," letting him know that they got the humor, but kept him in check. The after-competition pbp could also be fun. I just think other social media is trickier to navigate. It feels like it's meant for off-the-cuff chit-chat, but again, as someone who is also a legit journalist, unsourced "news" posts can risk trust of readers and subjects. I get that there can be Sekret Sources, but it's also ok for readers to say, "Come off it. We're not talking about Watergate or Love Canal." (Showing my age.)

 

[Aerobicidal]

I just want to say @Aerobicidal Ivana Komova's article about Elena was from a place of Aerobidical thinking how ridiculous it was that people were commenting on Elena's weight. He was one of the most vocal posters here who critiqued through humor of all the insiders who kept making comments on her weight. I don't want his intentions getting twisted.

Thank you for trying to defend me, but I was actually being serious about Ilinykh's weight.

When I saw her at Skate America last year and commented that she looked "morbidly obese," I was one hundred percent serious. She looked like she weighed at least 500 pounds, probably closer to 700 pounds.

I also think that Aljona should be forced to retire. In fact, I think that any skater over the age of 18 should be sent to Siberia and forced into hard labor making couture accessories for Tutberidze. For female single skaters, that age should be even younger: as soon as they hit puberty, send them away. No secondary sex characteristics because Polymer Bob would be horrified.

Also, all godless homosexual men of skating should be forced to compete in the ladies division. Wearing dresses or skorts or catsuits. And with the make-up gun set to Tammy Faye.

Moreover, the ISU should create a separate branch for skaters who aren't white. Those people wouldn't be allowed to compete at Worlds or the Olympics, but we'd give them fried chicken or fortune cookies if they can do a nice spin and land a couple of jumps.

Back on topic, it's clear to me that Gracie Gold is suffering from a combination of satanic possession and multiple personality disorder. The "professional help" is obviously a combination exorcism/series of appointments with the same therapist who discovered Sybil. May she be brought back to the path of holiness and singularity!!!