Gracie taking some time off to seek professional help

Jeschke said:
Now I was too curious and started reading. Should not have. :yikes:
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I did not find this thread unusual...:EVILLE: .. simply, the Russians have not peed in anyone's soup in the last few days, and the weekly exercise in couch dialectics leeched on to Gracie.

Geesss.. all the girl said is that she is taking few months off to take care of personal matters...
 
@Tinami Amori She's not even taking a few months off. From what I understood she is still training towards her grand prix assignments.

It's great that she's getting help and that she announced she was, but I don't think it's a huge deal as far as her skating goes. She's still going to work hard on the ice to try to get to the Olympics - it's not that different from what she was doing. The only big change she made to her season is the Japan Open - and I don't think that competition matters in the grand scheme of the Olympic season with all the Senior B's and GPs going on.
 
I can't believe we haven't discussed...who is going to Japan Open in GG's place for the US?
 
Edited for better clarity -

Seeking professional help often means mental therapy (to which there should never be negative connotations).

As someone that has tried meds and talk therapy, I found meds to have too many side effects, but the alterations of my mood for the better were immediate. I just couldn't stand the changes to my body so I stopped taking them. I decided to pursue talk therapy on its own: It was / is a long and hard row to hoe but there was an immediate effect even there: After a few sessions, I realized that I was not alone and abnormal. I'm still working on myself 1.5 decades later.

Finding the right professional takes time. If one so chooses, finding medication that agrees with your lifestyle is also not easy, but maybe Gracie will experience some form of immediate relief for this season because she is taking that first step which might just help her find satisfaction on the ice: She has decided that something is wrong and she needs to fix it. If it does not help her skating, I still wish her the best on her journey
 
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Willin said:
@Tinami Amori She's not even taking a few months off. From what I understood she is still training towards her grand prix assignments.

It's great that she's getting help and that she announced she was, but I don't think it's a huge deal as far as her skating goes. She's still going to work hard on the ice to try to get to the Olympics - it's not that different from what she was doing. The only big change she made to her season is the Japan Open - and I don't think that competition matters in the grand scheme of the Olympic season with all the Senior B's and GPs going on.
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If she were ready to compete, no, it wouldn't be. Japan Open is meaningless. But Gracie hasn't shown, at least publicly, anything more difficult than a double salchow since January. That's not a sign of someone who is even going to compete this season. USFS's rules for international selection pool athletes also require them to show both their short and long programs at Champs Camp or another summer competition (such as Broadmoor Open, Skate Detroit, Glacier Falls), prior to competing internationally. Gracie hasn't fulfilled this, as she didn't show her short at Champs Camp.

From the 2017-2018 Competition Readiness Overview:

Program Performance. I, the skater, agree that I will perform my completed competition programs at a minimum of one eligible or “otherwise approved” event at least 35 days prior to departure for my first international competition of the season. Eligible events include Pairs Camp, Chesapeake Open (Dance), Broadmoor Open, Skate Detroit, Glacier Falls, Lake Placid Ice Dance Championships, Philadelphia Summer Championships, and Champs Camp.
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http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/2017-18 Competition Readiness Overview.pdf
 
olympic said:
Seeking professional help often means mental therapy (to which there should never be negative connotations).

As someone that has tried meds and talk therapy, I found meds to have too many side effects but the alterations of my mood for the better were immediate. I just couldn't stand the changes to my body. I pursued talk therapy on its own: Long and hard row to hoe but there was an immediate effect even there: I realized that I was not alone and abnormal. I'm still working on myself 1.5 decades later.

Finding the right professional takes time. Finding medication that agrees with your lifestyle is also not easy but maybe Gracie will experience some form of relief for this season by taking that first step, enough to help her find satisfaction on the ice: Something is wrong and I need to fix it. If not, I wish her the best on her journey
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Side effects of antidepressors : weight gain... Not what she would want at this point...
 
Man, when I finally check back on skating news, 2 promising talents are leaving the sport in an Olympic year (temporarily or otherwise). It's certainly surprising, but I think both Gracie and Julia are incredibly brave for making this decision for themselves.

I come from a culture where you do not quit things. It's just not done. Especially when the ultimate goal is so close. It isn't even an option on the damn table. You keep at it (or are trapped, depending on your viewpoint) until you get the job done. Period.

It was only in my late-20's that I finally internalized that quitting was okay. I didn't have to bring absolutely everything I did to the bitter end. I could quit if it was negatively impacting my health or the work.

(And this was only after I met my now-husband, who wasn't raised as strictly as I was. And has an independent streak a mile wide!)

The fact that Gracie put her foot down and essentially said, "No, I will not let other people's expectations of me dictate my well-being and future any longer" is commendable. Especially when you consider how much of a figure skating bubble she likely has lived in since she was a kid. Everything revolves around skating at the Olympics. (My sister hasn't dated someone like my husband, so she still has a hard time quitting things, to the detriment of her health...) That Gracie stopped that rat race on her own is so brave.

I hope this has imbued her with a sense of freedom. Life doesn't have to be all about training anymore. I wish her well, no matter what she decides to do.
 
Greetings from Spain y,all. Just checking FSU from brekkie at my hotel. :).

Where in bcn has the GPF been the past few years... maybe I go see where it was.....
 
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Anita18 said:
Man, when I finally check back on skating news, 2 promising talents are leaving the sport in an Olympic year (temporarily or otherwise). It's certainly surprising, but I think both Gracie and Julia are incredibly brave for making this decision for themselves.

I come from a culture where you do not quit things. It's just not done. Especially when the ultimate goal is so close. It isn't even an option on the damn table. You keep at it (or are trapped, depending on your viewpoint) until you get the job done. Period.

It was only in my late-20's that I finally internalized that quitting was okay. I didn't have to bring absolutely everything I did to the bitter end. I could quit if it was negatively impacting my health or the work.

(And this was only after I met my now-husband, who wasn't raised as strictly as I was. And has an independent streak a mile wide!)

The fact that Gracie put her foot down and essentially said, "No, I will not let other people's expectations of me dictate my well-being and future any longer" is commendable. Especially when you consider how much of a figure skating bubble she likely has lived in since she was a kid. Everything revolves around skating at the Olympics. (My sister hasn't dated someone like my husband, so she still has a hard time quitting things, to the detriment of her health...) That Gracie stopped that rat race on her own is so brave.

I hope this has imbued her with a sense of freedom. Life doesn't have to be all about training anymore. I wish her well, no matter what she decides to do.
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The fat lady hasn't sung yet, only time will tell.

But assuming for a moment you are right, as I read your post as believing Gracie has quit the sport: who's to say what the finish line was? One can only quit if the finish line is fixed, like a degree after study, etc

She's a two time nat champ who's already an Olympian and technically an oly medalist. What the goal she's quitting on? A second olympics? An attempt at a second olympics? An individual oly medal? A world title? Who's to say? At what point do Kwan and Cohen then become quitters too? It's all rather fuzzy and open to interpretation.

I know what you mean as I think many of us struggle with this same issue. But determining what the goal is helps imo. Is divorce for example always "quitting" or is trying your best and still not succeeding completing the task?
 
berthesghost said:
The fat lady hasn't sung yet, only time will tell.

But assuming for a moment you are right, as I read your post as believing Gracie has quit the sport: who's to say what the finish line was? One can only quit if the finish line is fixed, like a degree after study, etc

She's a two time nat champ who's already an Olympian and technically an oly medalist. What the goal she's quitting on? A second olympics? An attempt at a second olympics? An individual oly medal? A world title? Who's to say? At what point do Kwan and Cohen then become quitters too? It's all rather fuzzy and open to interpretation.

I know what you mean as I think many of us struggle with this same issue. But determining what the goal is helps imo. Is divorce for example always "quitting" or is trying your best and still not succeeding completing the task?
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Respectfully quit simply means to stop doing something. Has nothing to do with goals met or achievements made.
 
Ever since Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen retired, the USA has been searching for their Next One, almost to the point of it being an obsession. Any young skater who showed glimpses of star quality was hyped up, but none have lived up to it. Caroline Zhang, Mirai Nagasu, Etc. Ashley Wagner, who didn't receive as much hype has been the most consistent. When Gracie appeared, she got touted almost immediately. An athletic jumper with the name "Gold". She never had a chance to develop. Ladies' figure skating can be unforgiving and fans can be fickle and even cruel. I remember people writing her off in 2013-14 because she wasn't as consistent as Lipnitskaya.

Whatever she does, Gracie needs to do whatever is best for her.
 
coppertop1 said:
Any young skater who showed glimpses of star quality was hyped up, but none have lived up to it. Caroline Zhang, Mirai Nagasu, Etc. Ashley Wagner, who didn't receive as much hype has been the most consistent
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To be fair, Rachel Flatt was either 1st or 2nd at US Nationals from 2008-2011 and was National Champion in 2010, immediately prior to the Olympics, Rachel must be mentioned. Also, Rachel had the 3-3s and was more consistent with less underrotations and edge calls than Ashley.

ETA: Meh . . . I forgot and entered this thread.
 
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berthesghost said:
The fat lady hasn't sung yet, only time will tell.

But assuming for a moment you are right, as I read your post as believing Gracie has quit the sport: who's to say what the finish line was? One can only quit if the finish line is fixed, like a degree after study, etc

She's a two time nat champ who's already an Olympian and technically an oly medalist. What the goal she's quitting on? A second olympics? An attempt at a second olympics? An individual oly medal? A world title? Who's to say? At what point do Kwan and Cohen then become quitters too? It's all rather fuzzy and open to interpretation.

I know what you mean as I think many of us struggle with this same issue. But determining what the goal is helps imo. Is divorce for example always "quitting" or is trying your best and still not succeeding completing the task?
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I'm not saying that she's permanently retired, only time will tell. But IMO even getting off the racetrack barreling toward the Olympics for a break is still a big first step.

And only Gracie knows what the finish line was supposed to be. Maybe it was making the next Olympics, maybe it was medalling there, maybe it was finally "fulfilling her potential" whatever that means. We don't know what any of it might be, but "taking a break 5 months before the Olympics" certainly does not go anywhere in that direction for an elite figure skater.

I don't think anyone should be shamed for quitting. Everyone has their own reasons, even if they aren't elite athletes. If someone is flakey and gives up too early on everything they do, shaming them for it doesn't help.

And yeah, quitting and failing can be seen as the same things depending on how one is raised. :shuffle: My aforementioned sister who can't quit anything, she was in an unhappy relationship for 3 years (out of 5) because breaking up felt like failure. She finally got it into her head that her happiness was more important than her pride, but that's a long time to be unhappy.
 
Anita18 said:
I come from a culture where you do not quit things. It's just not done. Especially when the ultimate goal is so close. It isn't even an option on the damn table. You keep at it (or are trapped, depending on your viewpoint) until you get the job done. Period.
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I like your "culture"!... :D... one must ALWAYS get the job done if one took on a task of this "job" (job = work?)

Anita18 said:
It was only in my late-20's that I finally internalized that quitting was okay. I didn't have to bring absolutely everything I did to the bitter end. I could quit if it was negatively impacting my health or the work.
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:lol: since Work and Health are few of the key and essential elements in life, everything else that hinders them MUST be eliminated. Trying to break through a brick wall with your forehead, for example, is simply stupid and unproductive... it hurts work and health....;)
 
olympic said:
As someone that has tried meds and talk therapy, I found meds to have too many side effects, but the alterations of my mood for the better were immediate. I just couldn't stand the changes to my body so I stopped taking them. I decided to pursue talk therapy on its own: It was / is a long and hard row to hoe but there was an immediate effect even there: After a few sessions, I realized that I was not alone and abnormal. I'm still working on myself 1.5 decades later.
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:respec:

I find it perplexing that there isn't more of a balance for humans in regards to ongoing physical upkeep and ongoing mental upkeep. We don't acheive a physical goal and then just stop exercising. It's a lifelong thing. So should be whatever works for us in regards to ongoing mental health. :) As for Gracie, I wish nothing but the best for her. She's more of a role model now that she's publicly stating that taking some time for one's well-being is of utmost importance.
 
coppertop1 said:
Ever since Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen retired, the USA has been searching for their Next One, almost to the point of it being an obsession. Any young skater who showed glimpses of star quality was hyped up, but none have lived up to it. Caroline Zhang, Mirai Nagasu, Etc. Ashley Wagner, who didn't receive as much hype has been the most consistent. When Gracie appeared, she got touted almost immediately. An athletic jumper with the name "Gold". She never had a chance to develop. Ladies' figure skating can be unforgiving and fans can be fickle and even cruel. I remember people writing her off in 2013-14 because she wasn't as consistent as Lipnitskaya.
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Agreed. I think USFS saw Gracie with a good 3-3, big jumps and potential, and they immediately latched onto her. FFS, they sent her to the World Team Trophy before she ever competed as a senior. Plus, NBC slobbered all over Gracie from the very beginning. Too much, too fast.
 
Well for decades the USFSA didn't have to lift a finger because the next big thing always came at the tail end of the previous "Next one" and seemed to live up to expectations without second thought. And sometimes there was more then one at the same time. Even the ones who were kind of a disappointment and didn't reach the top step were still contenders and sometimes had a moment in the sun.

Since Sasha it dried up. Kimmie (remember her!), was suppose to be the "Next one," but she had a rough time post puberty and had injuries. But even then, in her short career, she was able to had a moment in the sun and put it all together. To date remains the last US lady to win a world title.

I remember when they were hyping Mirai and Caroline. It was clear but it didn't feel desperate. For a moment it looked like all was going to go as planned (Mirai on the surface seem to be handling things well and Rachel was proving very solid) but then it fell apart. Since then it seems the USFSA have been pushing harder and trying to force it because its not happening naturally. Their likely perplexed at all of it after decades of effortless success and Gracie's the victim of that. Their hyping of her before she did anything looked desperate. With her talent it should have been like a guarantee but they ended up destroying it
 
NAOTMAA said:
Well for decades the USFSA didn't have to lift a finger because the next big thing always came at the tail end of the previous "Next one" and seemed to live up to expectations without second thought. And sometimes there was more then one at the same time. Even the ones who were kind of a disappointment and didn't reach the top step were still contenders and sometimes had a moment in the sun.

Since Sasha it dried up. Kimmie (remember her!), was suppose to be the "Next one," but she had a rough time post puberty and had injuries. But even then, in her short career, she was able to had a moment in the sun and put it all together. To date remains the last US lady to win a world title.

I remember when they were hyping Mirai and Caroline. It was clear but it didn't feel desperate. For a moment it looked like all was going to go as planned (Mirai on the surface seem to be handling things well and Rachel was proving very solid) but then it fell apart. Since then it seems the USFSA have been pushing harder and trying to force it because its not happening naturally. Their likely perplexed at all of it after decades of effortless success and Gracie's the victim of that. Their hyping of her before she did anything looked desperate. With her talent it should have been like a guarantee but they ended up destroying it
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Peggy - Janet / Julie Holmes - Dorothy - Linda - Elaine / Roz / Tiffany - Debi / Jill / Caryn - Kristi / Nancy / Tonya - Nicole / Kween / Tara - Sarah - Sasha: Every year, there was at least one medal threat on the world stage. Kimmie had a moment, but after that, it has been all downhill. But I think it is a combo of US problems and the emergence of Yu Na, Mao and a bevy of Japanese ladies who embraced the then-new IJS, while the US clung too long to the concept of the next flutzy ice princess
 
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I don't think it can all be blamed on the failure to embrace IJS. I think it also has a lot to do with the emergence of social media and the resulting increase in the speed of news/information. The ladies cited in @olympic 's post had a couple of years to be the "one in waiting" who got less attention while someone else was the more dominant presence. But now, because everybody wants to grab eyeballs and clicks as often and as fast as possible, the pressure is more intense for the new contenders to ascend the ranks that much more quickly.
 
I agree that U.S. skating coaching for ladies is behind the world in terms of really emphasizing the qualities skaters need to have to be a Yuna Kim/Kostner (2011-2014)/Mao (2007-2014)/Med type of competitive skater and were maybe holding on to a 6.0 type of holistic package when they should have been more focusing on individual elements to minimize deductions and negative GOE and adopt a Eteri style maximize to the code coaching method and encouraging speed and power over anything else.

However, although the Americans may not have it as good as when we'd have an American lady world title contender, the field has changed and competition has become more difficult and have come from many more countries and outside of Yuna Kim, and now Med, almost every lady skater in the world in the past 5 or so seasons have struggled with consistency and managing consistent top 2-3 finishes at the biggest competitons of the season, including Mao and the Japanese women who are considered more successful than the Americans. Even as a whole, the American women have been able to do better than Japan at times (2014 Olympics; 2016 Worlds; 2017 Worlds).

I'm also going to say that the "flutzy ice princesses" didn't do THAT badly honestly...especially considering how all three of our current world medalists all flutz. Not to be too much of a snowflake, but I do think that's sort of disrespectful to the ladies who medaled at Nationals and represented the U.S. in those years. They all had some pretty good years with respectable results. For one thing, the American women dominated the junior Worlds scene from 2007-2009 meaning they were doing pretty well with IJS there. Things were slower in the senior level but at least one American woman has managed to be in the top 5 and within striking distance of a medal every year at Worlds since 2011. Some of them have medaled or even won ISU championships, even the ones that are less celebrated like Polina Edmunds winning 4CC in 2015.

Regarding the point about the USFS promoting ice princesses over anyone else, I mean Rachael Flatt did have really solid jumping technique (from what I remember) and people complained when she won over the better packaged Mirai, who also had speed, the best spins in the world at the time, and big jumps that would have scored well when she didn't UR. Alissa Czisny may cause some people to roll their eyes because I guess she is the example of a ice princess type with iffy jump technique (I'm thinking 2009 Nationals), but in 2010-2011, she managed to win the GPF over the likes of Carolina Kostner (who medaled every year at Worlds that Olympic cycle, won Worlds the next season, and won Olympic bronze), Akiko Suzuki (who would also go on win a World medal), and the eventual world champion that season Miki Ando who was already a world champion. She was also so close to medaling at Worlds that season as well. She's still the last American woman to win a GPF. Gracie Gold, as we all know, definitely had the technical goods to win titles. So I don't think there was a time the USFS were really promoting the "wrong" skaters. I mean Caroline Zhang was never sent to Worlds despite all of her junior success and there have been times where she was close because the U.S. judges marked her down for her real technical deficiencies.
 
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