skatesindreams
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 30,696
Let's wait to see what Gracie does before making predictions or judgments.
I wish her whatever she wishes for herself.
.
I wish her whatever she wishes for herself.
.
(((((Gracie)))))In Gracie's case I feel that being so very pretty has worked against her.
Did anyone say she is NOT a person?
I don't think it was a blanket statement. Karen and Mirai were huge cry babies at the Olympics. One didn't have hot water and the other didn't have her mom. To me, that is embarrassing. You never heard Michelle Kwan or Sasha Cohen complaining about water temperature, or dissing other competitors to explain their performance at the Olympics. And they were both younger than 2018 Mirai in both their Olympic appearances. It was so lame. Gracie had personal issues she had to overcome, but she isn't a whiner. Bradie reminds m of Rachel Flatt. Best we have by default. I will be happy to see Gracie back.
Why not? Are there rules in place that dictate why skaters are allowed to return to competiton? I have no idea why Gracie is returning to competition and as far as I know, neither does anyone else posting in this thread.
To suggest that Gracie’s “return should have nothing to do ...” (that is what you actually posted, so yes, you did say that) is a bit much. Gracie may return for any reason she likes and she is also not required to share that reason with anyone.
Nothing to do with being blonde or skating styles other than they are both kind of bland to watch. They are reliable skaters who are placing well nationally because their more talented US competitors can't get it together....which is not their fault and good for them for being able to step up to the plate. Being able to skate under pressure is also a talent, it is a shame Karen and the others really don't have that quality.
I just personally think it's not a good idea to decide to return based on how other U.S. ladies fared at Worlds and Olympics. Had any of the U.S. ladies medaled in singles at either of those events, would that mean Gracie would have or should have decided not to return.
For funsies...
Base Value from 2018 US Figure Skating Championships (Senior Ladies Free Skate)
1 - Mirai Nagasu 65.08
2 - Bradie Tennell 62.22
3 - Mariah Bell 59.15
4 - Starr Andrews 58.16
5 - Ashley Wagner 54.96
6 - Courtney Hicks 53.93
7 - Angela Wang 53.45
8 - Karen Chen 52.44
9 - Kaitlyn Nguyen 51.75
10 - Brynne McIsaac 51.10
Sample Base Value (using 2018-2019 values)
Spins & Steps
L4 Layback 2.7
L4 flying sit 3.0
L4 combo 3.2
ChSeq 2.0
L2 Steps 2.6
13.5
Jump List - 7 triples, 2 double axels
3t3t 4.2+4.2=8.4
3z 5.9
3f 5.3
2a-1/2l-3sal 3.3+.5+4.3=8.1
**
3l 4.9*1.1=5.39
3sal2t (4.3+1.3)*1.1=6.16
2a 3.3*1.1=3.63
42.88
Total Base Value 56.38 (virtual tie for 5th in base value)
Alternate Jump List - 6 triples, 1 double axel
3z2t 5.9+1.3=7.2
3f 5.3
2z3toe 2.1+4.2=6.3
3l 4.9
**
2a2t2l [3.3+1.3+1.7]*1.1=6.93
3z 5.9*1.1=6.49
3sal 4.3*1.1=4.73
41.85
Total Base Value 55.35 (5th in base value)
When you consider that the Base Value has been decreased for 3z (-.1), combo spins (-.3), 3l (BOOOOO -.2), it's fair to knock .5 off of the 2018 Free Skate base value totals.
Either your memory is failing or you are not a diehard Kwan fan.IDK if we want to open up the can of “skating is too snobby” worms, we’ll be here all day! but at any rate, if fans and judges alike were pro-Disney programs I’d imagine we’d see more of them. Off the top of my head the only two I can think of were malinina’s aladin lp that got bad presentation marks even when skated well and kerrigan’s b&tb which got good presentation marks despite never being skated well. To be fair, it was a pretty standard Kerrigan 90s soundtrack lp and not very “Disney” ( too corny!) anyway, if Bradie wants things done her way vs doing what has to be done to score higher, then she can be the next recipient of the Surya trophy.
And I don’t get what’s so “princessy” about Kwan, Frank, Lori or Gracie. Salome, taj, red violin, tangos and firebird are too Princess?
NeitherEither your memory is failing or you are not a diehard Kwan fan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZxBmhbw7Gs
Yes, but I don't consider an exhibition while you’re being paid millions by Disney/ABC to be the same as choosing to do a Disney competitive FS for free. But that’s just me.didn’t she do a Pocahontas exhibition back in like 96?
... if Bradie wants things done her way vs doing what has to be done to score higher, then she can be the next recipient of the Surya trophy.
For some reason I thought he took a season or two off. And I thought of his last Olympics as a come-back because he brought back his 1994 FP, ostensibly to reinvent the program (which unfortunately did not happen).
WRT Gracie, I would really like to see her find a style that works for her. IMO she has always been cast in the ice princess mold. This in part because she's so fair and pretty. And Frank has not helped with that - he's not the most imaginative coach when it comes to encouraging skaters to explore different styles, genres and music choices.
In Gracie's case I feel that being so very pretty has worked against her.
I want to see "new Gracie" as a tomboy or as "little rascal", Charlie Chaplin, or Peter Pan, or something spunky (not Wagner-sassy) and nothing dramatic....
I applaud Gracie for coming back. What she is doing is extremely courageous and brave. As someone who suffers from both anxiety and depression. She is truly inspirational. Just admitting she was in treatment is not only courageous for herself but helps many others such as myself.
I was at 2016 Worlds in Boston and saw her from a distance with Frank was right before the long program. I didn’t know what was going through her head but I could recognize her symptoms.
That being said I posted on another board that I find it incredible that 5 out of the top 7 ladies at 2016 Worlds didn’t make it to the Olympics. Neither did the top 3 at 2016 US Nationals. Sometimes I feel this sport is moving way to fast.
Not that I’m going to drag Sasha into it but remember “drill team” comment at 2003 Worlds?, the stalker at 2003 Nationals, the shingles, the spider bites.. However I do agree by the time Torino came along she handled the defeat graciously.
Tara is a great example of someone who could sell a program like she’s got a sales quota to fill. Bradie is not, as their Olympic results show. Bringing up great champions of the past who defied the odds doesn’t exactly help your argument that today’s crop isn’t a bunch of duds by comparison.
Calling Anastasia a Disney film is like calling Diet Coke a Pepsi product but otherwise your point stands, she won overall even though her sp music was dissed. Tara is a great example of someone who could sell a program like she’s got a sales quota to fill. Bradie is not, as their Olympic results show. Bringing up great champions of the past who defied the odds doesn’t exactly help your argument that today’s crop isn’t a bunch of duds by comparison.
Gracie has the ability to sell a program, as we’ve seen from time to time. Unfortunately she was like a tv with a bad antenna. One minute the picture could be crystal clear, the next it was all static and wavy lines.
Well, we all know that Tara's choice, while not full of depth, was music Tara memorably skated the life out of.
They were at different stages in their careers, and Lipinski had much more international experience than Tennell did (and does).
so... in order to score well at the 2018 Olys one needed a lot of prior international experience? Someone better tell Zag!Lipinski went into the Olympics as world champion, 2-time GPF champion, and two-time US medalist. Tennell went into the Olympics as US champion with 2 GP bronze medals. Comparing their Olympic results doesn't really prove anything about their respective abilities to sell. They were at different stages in their careers, and Lipinski had much more international experience than Tennell did (and does).
you were comparing two of their program musics that they were both warned not to use. Tara sold Anastasia in a way Bradie never sold Cinderella. Speaking strictly about their presentation skills: Tara was a phenom that generated a tremendous buzz even before she turned senior. Bradie skated two entire seasons with little to no attention paid to her, and in her 3rd year was suddenly “discovered” like she appeared out of nowhere. It’s easier to sell “bad” programs when you have an it factor. Just because Tara sold her music choice doesn’t make Sandra wrong.Hmmm, I wasn't attempting to directly compare Tara vs Bradie re their skating.
Don't forget about the Ultimate 4 Challenge where Michelle competed against Kristi.Yes, but I don't consider an exhibition while you’re being paid millions by Disney/ABC to be the same as choosing to do a Disney competitive FS for free. But that’s just me.