Vagabond
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@skatepixie When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging!
I'm not accusing her of lying. Not by a long shot. But I do think she's playing a strategic game, and I don't think its especially brave.
None of us know Gracie well enough to speculate about her reasoning, but I don't think it's mutually exclusive that she wanted to be honest and forthright while also wanting to make it clear to her supporters that she has serious and compelling reasons to WD from her events. Withdrawing due to mental health issues should be seen as no different than withdrawing for any other health-related reasons. Anything less forthright would have only led to more speculation while also signalling that she was ashamed of what she was dealing with.Other posters praise Gracie’s honesty, because in their view she is doing society and skating community a favor, teaching them that such issues exist and setting an example how they should be brought into the open.
Well, I don’t think she is listing her issues to do an expose and to do “skating community a favor”, or that she has a “strategy”. I have another "theory for her reasons".
I think she stated all her issues as an “apology to her fans and federation”: I am not withdrawing on a whim, please don’t think that I had a choice and chose to abandon skating! Here is what I am dealing with! Please understand, it is serious!”
None of us know Gracie well enough to speculate about her reasoning, but I don't think it's mutually exclusive that she wanted to be honest and forthright while also wanting to make it clear to her supporters that she has serious and compelling reasons to WD from her events. Withdrawing due to mental health issues should be seen as no different than withdrawing for any other health-related reasons. Anything less forthright would have only led to more speculation while also signalling that she was ashamed of what she was dealing with.
I think she stated all her issues as an “apology to her fans and federation”: I am not withdrawing on a whim, please don’t think that I had a choice and chose to abandon skating! Here is what I am dealing with! Please understand, it is serious!”
Ah, so "frank discussion" means somebody insisting "it's naive to think the announcement was anything other than a money focused move" even though they admit they "don't know how bad her situation is" because it isn't their business really.
I agree with the last part 100%, but the first part feels less like "frank discussion" and more like "somebody is being a bit of a jerk and talking out of their ass and trying to paint it as being a brave truth-teller with superior insight into a situation they admitted they don't really know about." While exhibiting some sympathy or goodwill is "being naive" and people like that should stay out of the discussion, of course, because internet is only for the jaded and the cynical jerks who want to spread that kind of negativity around.
What's naive is thinking no one will disagree with you, and thinking that a celebrity won't make announcements in such a way as will be to her greatest benefit. Which includes making sure she is seen in the best light possible -- and, to many here, that means motives can't even be questioned, which is strange to me. Apparently, I have stumbled upon FSU's one and only sacred cow.
The way in which a skater who has no realistic chance of competing and competing well, and hasn't for a while, decides to announce that she won't be competing is a major strategic decision. And it's trendy now to be rather open about mental health issues and other difficult things -- a bit more open than I personally find tasteful, though others have the right to disagree. With physical injuries it makes a bit more sense to disclose because things are a bit more cut and dried -- "I have XYZ tendon issue, can return to the ice in X weeks, and hope to be at Nationals, thank you all."
Maybe it is cultural values and differences between me and other posters. However, I do think that if it's made public, the nature of the announcement becomes up for public discussion as a natural and inevitable consequence.
I don't think anyone should stay out of the conversation, unless they have a mental illness that would be negatively impacted or something similar. That was my response to the whole "we've had members with these problems" issue.
What's naive is thinking no one will disagree with you, and thinking that a celebrity won't make announcements in such a way as will be to her greatest benefit.
The way in which a skater who has no realistic chance of competing and competing well, and hasn't for a while, decides to announce that she won't be competing is a major strategic decision.
And it's trendy now to be rather open about mental health issues and other difficult things -- a bit more open than I personally find tasteful, though others have the right to disagree.
With physical injuries it makes a bit more sense to disclose because things are a bit more cut and dried -- "I have XYZ tendon issue, can return to the ice in X weeks, and hope to be at Nationals, thank you all."
Not really -- I don't care if you (or anyone) agrees with me -- I don't like being insulted, called names, etc. It seems like a childish way to deal with dissent, but then FSU can get childish at times. However, one thing I always thought was part of the FSU culture was frank discussion that can seem brutal at times -- apparently this is the one untouchable topic.No, what you have stumbled into is a big mess of your own making. You seem to be the one who has trouble with dissenting opinions.
Never said mental illness is trendy. Talking about it, though? Oh yes, big time.Mental illness is not "trendy" and it can be just as damaging to someone's ability to function as physical injuries can be. It can be even more damaging because of attitudes like yours that treat it as shameful.
It's not like I'm sitting here thinking it's great she's suffering or anything -- I just don't see anything amazingly praiseworthy nor do I want to go on and on about how amazing she is. Of course I wish her well in her recovery. Goes without saying -- or perhaps not. I didn't feel the need to parrot the same things said in the thread about her situation.Sympathy for someone in distress is a cultural value you seem to be lacking.
Your response is wrong. Mental illness has had an effect on many FSU members, directly or indirectly, in very serious ways. You seem to think it's no more than somebody reading a mean post and getting their feelings hurt, and you couldn't be more wrong.
Too true. I would think clinical depression and clinical anxiety are not easy to fix if what you do for a career is difficult manoeuvres on a slippery surface with two thin edges....and all the while knowing every move is being judged and analyzed by millions of people who expect you to live up to your last name. This must have been a nightmare for her.THIS^^^^^
Mental health issues can be permanently debilitating. Sometimes "getting help" doesn't help. I know people with mental illnesses who are barely able to leave their homes. And yes, they do take their meds every day. The meds help them enough to keep them out of the psych ward, but not much beyond that. I know someone else who "got better" to the point where you can't tell there's anything "wrong" with her. But maintaining this level of health takes up a tremendous amount of this individual's time and energy. Since Gracie has an eating disorder, it's possible that she will struggle with it for the rest of her life. This is not something that goes away after six weeks of counseling and a daily dose of Prozac.
Never said mental illness is trendy. Talking about it, though? Oh yes, big time.
This discussion is getting ugly and people wonder why mental health isn't discussed more? Gee, I wonder. How about putting yourself in her skate boots?
It's a particularly horrific kind of eating disorder.Feeding her only encourages her to continue with her trash talking.
Should we be equally accepting if a poster were to argue for, say, female genital mutilation?If skatpixie grew up in a society where conditions like ED, anorexia, mental problems, depression, etc., are not openly discussed in public, and people rather hide the fact than disclose them in such details, then she has every reason to presume that the one who is disclosing them must have strategic reasons for "degrading oneself in public view".
It is a cultural difference. If you don't like it, state your objections, instead of attacking her. seems like "diversity" for those who insist on "diversity" only works when it suites them....
We did have such a discussion in PI about half a year ago, and i started it. It was a civil conversation, with main question "what to do to stop it and do we have the right to interfere with cultural/religious traditions" and involved many mentions of cultural, religious and social issues from "pro" and "con" points of view.Should we be equally accepting if a poster were to argue for, say, female genital mutilation?
Then use your "culture" to debate and argue your position if you don't "accept" hers, not shut her up. Also "empathy and kindness" is very subjective... and often "cultural".I can accept that some people like Ed Sheeran, Davis/White, mangoes, dogs, and conservative politics. Skatepixie is welcome to question the motives of a skater sharing her mental health challenges, but I don't feel like I should have to accept this as appropriate. I guess the culture I grew up in leads me to believe that empathy and kindness are a better response in such situations.
If skatpixie grew up in a society where conditions like ED, anorexia, mental problems, depression, etc., are not openly discussed in public, and people rather hide the fact than disclose them in such details, then she has every reason to presume that the one who is disclosing them must have strategic reasons for "degrading oneself in public view".
It is a cultural difference. If you don't like it, state your objections, instead of attacking her. seems like "diversity" for those who insist on "diversity" only works when it suites them....
Most of the posts responding to skatepixie have called her statements insensitive and mean-spirited, and explained why. There is no way to interpret "playing the mental health card" as a "money-focused move" that should be written off because "talking about mental health is trendy" as either kind or empathetic. Not even if you believe in tough love. Saying this is not shutting anyone up.We did have such a discussion in PI about half a year ago, and i started it. It was a civil conversation, with main question "what to do to stop it and do we have the right to interfere with cultural/religious traditions" and involved many mentions of cultural, religious and social issues from "pro" and "con" points of view.
Then use your "culture" to debate and argue your position if you don't "accept" hers, not shut her up. Also "empathy and kindness" is very subjective... and often "cultural".
Many countries/cultures.... with various political and economic structures.... and some are considered "first world/advanced"... Like France, Japan, etc..It is nice that the cultural difference is explained. I have no idea from what culture skatpixie comes. However, I now imagine skatpixie comes from a culture where political power is more important than economic power, so everything is done strategically.
Yes, some did.... while some called her names, and some wanted the topic to be closed.Most of the posts responding to skatepixie have called her statements insensitive and mean-spirited, and explained why.