NYT: Gracie Gold’s Battle for Olympic Glory Ended in a Fight to Save Herself

[Willin]

Where is Ashley named as the person that helped Gracie here? Either way I'm very impressed that she helped. Prior to 2016 they were known to pretty much hate being around each other. A few of the skaters I knew that trained in LA said they could hardly skate on the same ice because they were the same level of perfectionist in practice and that caused them to have trouble when around each other. It's good that Ashley could put off what she felt on the ice to help someone off the ice.

Reading this article I hope it can shed a light on the fact that elite skaters need extra help and need to be watched out for. I hope Gracie continues to feel better about herself.

 

[Rukia]

Where is Ashley named as the person that helped Gracie here?

This is the part:

Gold was depressed, and her deteriorating relationship with food now involved binge-purge cycles. Her private struggles became immediately clear to Wagner, her rival, who said recently, “There was just no one home, and that was a scary thing to see.”

Wagner alerted a skating official that Gold seemed unwell and needed help. Sam Auxier, the president of U.S. Figure Skating at the time, said the association, which makes licensed psychologists and other specialists available to athletes dealing with mental health problems, had acted promptly. But attempts to assist Gold, he said, went nowhere.

 

[Spun Silver]

I just hope telling her story to the New York Times, ergo the world, was a wise move for Gracie herself as well as a service to any who might be suffering from (or be close to athletes suffering from) similar problems. To me, broadcasting your struggles through the world's biggest megaphone when they are still unresolved seems like a very high-risk move, not unlike competing in Russia. But I hope I'm wrong and it helps in some way. I'm glad her new coach is watching out for her.

And I'm glad she still has her sense of humor. I love this bit:

She gives skating lessons to young children and adults, trains alongside teenagers and wonders what they must be thinking.

“When I was their age,” Gold said, “I never had a semiretired, mentally ill Olympian come to my rink.”

Go, Gracie.

 

[Vagabond]

I kept waiting for one question to be answered: Where the eff was Marina during all of Gracie’s time in Michigan?

I also wondered about her parents and her twin sister.

It's not as if any of them could reasonably claim they had no idea. Frank Carroll had already stated publicly that Gracie Gold was suffering from depression.

 

[floskate]

I read this earlier today and honestly, for me it was a painful read because I am currently going through a rough period of my own. She's so brave and for me right now she is a role model.

My reading of this is the weight issue seemed to start in the run up to Sochi. Go watch Gracie from 2013 then switch to Olympics 2014 and the weight loss is really startling. I remember a lot of concern around US Nationals of that season; we hadn't seen her for a while and the difference was pretty sudden and shocking. Plus her jumps got a LOT smaller. But as she said it was getting her so much positive attention that she couldn't stop.

I hope she can continue to recover and find peace and fulfilment in whatever she does. Eternal

 

[Yazmeen]

I was out of free articles from NYT for the month on my computer, but was able to read the article on my phone. Couple of other key things from it:

• It appears that after the stinging remark about her weight, Gracie stumbled onto some extreme weight loss sites online populated by young women advocating extreme weight control. I'm guessing these may have been what are called the "Pro-Ana"/anorexia diet weight loss diets. Her natural competitive drive kicked in and she cut her calorie intake to only a few hundred calories per day. She felt she was skating faster and better, and people kept telling her she looked great, so she kept it up. And for the record, her mother attempted to intervene.
• The loss of a medal at 2016 Worlds simply crushed her, and within months she deteriorated mentally and physically. She showed up at what appeared to be Champs Camp with the noticeable weight gain and she always seemed angry ("a glower almost perpetually on her face"). This is when Ashley became alarmed and intervened. As an aside, my respect for Ash has now gone through the roof; what she did was difficult, but it shows the strength of her character.
• Gracie became estranged from her parents around the time that her father went through his medical license suspension, but therapy in the treatment center brought them back together.
• And importantly, for all those here who have been criticizing Vincent Restencourt. He gained her trust by insisting she lose the extra weight gradually. He insists on dining with her at least once a week and was the one who got her back to eating more regularly, emphasizing she should not starve herself to lose the weight. She has dropped more than 30 pounds since this summer through a healthy diet. And one other thing: Restencourt did NOT want her to compete in Russia, but she insisted on going.

It was very brave of Gracie to do this interview, not just for herself, but for what others can learn from her experiences. I wish her the best of luck and hope we see her back in competition soon, but only if that is what she decides is right for her.

 

[Yazmeen]

One other thing for those who seem shocked that she actually put on 50 pounds because she "didn't look like it": As a doc who was in Ob/GYN for 5 years before switching specialties, several times I encountered damn near babbling and incoherent parents trying to explain how they never knew their princess was pregnant until she came down the stairs in tears (and in labor). A young woman who wants to hide a pregnancy or weight gain can become very adept in how she layers clothes or adjusts her posture to try and camouflage a thicker torso or a growing belly. And I'm not trying to slam Gracie in any way here; she was obviously in pain and was doing her best to make things look less severe to the outside world until she couldn't hold it in anymore. And in skating, that was harder to do than when you make the adjustments just to get out the door and go to school without your parents noticing what was happening to your body.

 

[GreatLakesGal]

Gracie's story is the most public of what comes from heaping crazy expectations on young teens who might not reach them. But no one is going to learn from this. Not the press, not the fans, and not USFSA.

I agree with your post except for one thing: You left out the most important group that needs to learn from Gracie's experience: The parents/families of these athletic prodigies.

I wish the writer of this article would have asked Gracie's mother if she and her husband had any regrets now about making so many sacrifices for their child's skating. Just think how Gracie likely internalized that--the family was spilt up so that she could pursue her skating with the best coaches--well then, she damn well better be perfect and win that OGM.

Is Alyssa Liu's father now doing the same thing? How personally invested is he in her success? From an article I just read about them, Frank Carroll was taken out of retirement to spend time with Alyssa and they also went to Orser in Toronto to spend a week with him. Why?? And US Figure Skating apparently subsidized a trip for them to go to the Grand Prix Final so that she could have that experience. Again, why?? I doubt doing any of this made a difference in how Alyssa performed last night.

 

[Willin]

@GreatLakesGal As I've said in a previous thread Alyssa's father is really, really chill as far as skating parents go. Admittedly I was only at that rink one day a week, but her dad wasn't even driving her there most weeks. He has a full time job and four other kids. Alyssa herself, despite her skills, is like any other skating kid who loves the sport: she hops around and is excited to do anything with skating. At the rink she has a lot of friends and the adult skaters/coaches/club leaders help to support and encourage her as they do for any other young skater. I don't think she has any concept of how good she is and her father certainly isn't pushing her to be better. I was pretty shocked seeing it because I assumed she had a crazy skating parent with how good she was.
Where have you heard anything about Frank Carroll or Orser or the GPF? I've never heard anything of the sort - she can't travel a lot because she has a single parent and four siblings. If she goes somewhere they have to arrange for someone to go with her or to babysit her siblings. In fact when Rohene did choreography for her he actually came to her because she couldn't take a trip to see him.

But I also don't think she's anything like Gracie. From the time she was a Junior you could tell Gracie was a perfectionist. I'd say Alyssa more reminds me of a young Mirai: happy, energetic, and enamored with skating. If she does struggle I would suspect it would be due to injury, a growth spurt, or losing her love for the sport as she gets older.

 

[Wyliefan]

I also wondered about her parents and her twin sister.

It's not as if any of them could reasonably claim they had no idea. Frank Carroll had already stated publicly that Gracie Gold was suffering from depression.

When someone's in a spiral, there's only so much a sister can do, even the most loving sister. Take it from one who has good reason to know. And the same is true of parents.

 

[Vagabond]

When someone's in a spiral, there's only so much a sister can do, even the most loving sister. Take it from one who has good reason to know. And the same is true of parents.

I know that. And her parents and sister at least (if not Zoueva!) had a lot of other things to deal with.

Still, I have to wonder whether the people in question did that "only so much." Here's what the Mayo Clinic suggests doing when a family member is suffering from depression:

• Explain that depression is a medical condition, not a personal flaw or weakness — and that it usually gets better with treatment.
• Suggest seeking help from a professional — a medical doctor or a mental health provider, such as a licensed counselor or psychologist.
• Offer to help prepare a list of questions to discuss in an initial appointment with a doctor or mental health provider.
• Express your willingness to help by setting up appointments, going along to them and attending family therapy sessions.

And if the parents would have had to drive there from Chicago to Detroit to do, they should have done so.

 

[Coco]

@Vagabond , her father might have been prohibited from leaving the state.

Let's just say we don't know everything and show some compassion.

 

[MacMadame]

Is Alyssa Liu's father now doing the same thing? How personally invested is he in her success? From an article I just read about them, Frank Carroll was taken out of retirement to spend time with Alyssa and they also went to Orser in Toronto to spend a week with him. Why?? And US Figure Skating apparently subsidized a trip for them to go to the Grand Prix Final so that she could have that experience. Again, why?? I doubt doing any of this made a difference in how Alyssa performed last night.

She is visiting other coaches because her coach wants the input. Laura Lepinsky is a relatively young coach and I think it's very smart to involve the input of more experienced coaches who have more experience coaching a skater at this level. And I'm sure those visits did contribute to how she performed last night.

The trip to the GPF is not unprecedented and I don't think USFS would sponsor athletes like this if they didn't see a payback. It definitely helps to be familiar with a venue and an event before you actually have to compete there. (I know this from personal experience in another sport.)

But I also don't think she's anything like Gracie. From the time she was a Junior you could tell Gracie was a perfectionist. I'd say Alyssa more reminds me of a young Mirai: happy, energetic, and enamored with skating. If she does struggle I would suspect it would be due to injury, a growth spurt, or losing her love for the sport as she gets older.

She reminds me more of Michelle Kwan. She definitely has better competition nerves than Nagasu.

 

[MacMadame]

Let's just say we don't know everything and show some compassion.

Yes! My sister is mentally ill and I can say from experience that it's hard enough to get them to do what they need to do when they are minors. When they are adults, it can be nearly impossible if they are in denial of the problem.

 

[Yazmeen]

Yes! My sister is mentally ill and I can say from experience that it's hard enough to get them to do what they need to do when they are minors. When they are adults, it can be nearly impossible if they are in denial of the problem.

Completely agree. I have a SIL who blew out her short term memory on drugs and alcohol and is only now out of a nursing home into a group home situation. All of us are very concerned about how she will handle it because she refuses to admit she has a drinking problem. Add to that the fact that she is also very clever and manipulative (she could talk your ear off and make you think she's the sweetest thing since candy apples), and that's a potent recipe for disaster. She's positive she can handle anything. We all know better and just have to deal with her as best we can.

 

[MacMadame]

At least my kids are not in denial and have let us help them. But even then it's hard. You can't force another person to do something they don't want to unless you are willing to use force. And even then it doesn't always work.

 

[Vagabond]

Who said anything about forcing? I was suggesting that her parents could have suggested she get professional help. One would think that if they had, there would be some mention of it in the article, but there isn't.

And if anyone deserves compassion in this, it's Gracie Gold, not anyone else., at least not without more information than is in that article -- information that we really shouldn't expect or want, unless people involved have some need or desire to share it. That doesn't stop me from wondering.

 

[MacMadame]

I was suggesting that her parents could have suggested she get professional help.

We don't know what that they didn't. We know Gracie's coach told her not to do her GP and she did it anyway. At the time people (including me) were saying he was at fault for thinking she was ready and now we find out he didn't think she was ready but she overruled him -- which as an adult she is entitled to do.

I wasn't responding specifically to you anyway. I was pointing out how easy it is for outsiders to say other adults (including parents) should have done this or that as if all it takes is to demand it. There were even people in this thread saying about people who did try that they should have tried harder. As if Gracie didn't get help sooner because those people didn't really care and not because Gracie is an adult with her own agency.

The system won't let you commit adults against their will until they are pretty far gone. And even then it can be tough to get the system to listen and act.

And if anyone deserves compassion in this, it's Gracie Gold, not anyone else.

Who said Gracie shouldn't get compassion?

 

[Vagabond]

Who said Gracie shouldn't get compassion?

No one, but in Post #42, Coco seems to suggest that we should be feeling compassion for her parents.

 

[Carolla5501]

@Vagabond , her father might have been prohibited from leaving the state.

Let's just say we don't know everything and show some compassion.

AMEN!


Posters on here need to quit assuming that they know more than anyone else and quit appointing themselves judges.

 

[Ena Grins]

I am inclined to believe that nobody was sufficiently empowered to intervene and Gracie denied having a plan to injure herself or others. Maybe USFSA should contract with a licensed psychotherapist in ever state that can enact 72 hour evaluations and such.

FWIW, I don't think this would ever be feasible. Every state has different laws around who (licensed clinicians, medical doctors, family and friends) can force involuntary mental health evaluations, and what those evaluations actually involve. In my current state, Washington, people can only be detained in the most extreme circumstances.

This isn't to say USFS and others couldn't have done more. It's always a very tricky balance between providing lots of guidance and support one on hand and respecting the person's free will on the other.

 

[CantALoop]

There were even people in this thread saying about people who did try that they should have tried harder. As if Gracie didn't get help sooner because those people didn't really care and not because Gracie is an adult with her own agency.

The system won't let you commit adults against their will until they are pretty far gone. And even then it can be tough to get the system to listen and act.

Trying harder does not necessarily mean being more forceful or committing someone. Trying harder could also mean persistence, finding other ways to suggest they need help, checking up to see if they followed through, anything to make sure that someone with depression isn't trying to handle it by themselves.

 

[MacMadame]

No one, but in Post #42, Coco seems to suggest that we should be feeling compassion for her parents.

And why not? Everyone was stuck in a bad situation and her Dad apparently has addiction issues. I always have compassion for people fighting addiction.

Trying harder does not necessarily mean being more forceful or committing someone. Trying harder could also mean persistence, finding other ways to suggest they need help, checking up to see if they followed through, anything to make sure that someone with depression isn't trying to handle it by themselves.

(1) We don't know people didn't do that.
(2) It doesn't always work.

 

[peibeck]

It's easy for we, the arm-chair analysts, to say "coulda, shoulda, woulda," but it is in the past and does not change what has transpired.

The best news is that Gracie has gotten help and is taking the long journey toward better health.

I'd prefer people remember that, and that this thread doesn't devolve into the messy speculation and accusatory tones of the John Coughlin threads.

 

[VGThuy]

I don't think Gracie did this piece intending to make people put some blame on her parents or for people to not feel for them as well. I think the last thing she wants is for people attacking her family that way.

 

[CantALoop]

The best news is that Gracie has gotten help and is taking the long journey toward better health.

I'd prefer people remember that, and that this thread doesn't devolve into the messy speculation and accusatory tones of the John Coughlin threads.

ITA, and it’s great she’s bringing awareness to the issue. It takes a lot of bravery to share such a dark period in her life so publicly, and even more so because she’s still in the process of healing.

 

[avivadawn]

She is visiting other coaches because her coach wants the input. Laura Lepinsky is a relatively young coach and I think it's very smart to involve the input of more experienced coaches who have more experience coaching a skater at this level. And I'm sure those visits did contribute to how she performed last night.

The trip to the GPF is not unprecedented and I don't think USFS would sponsor athletes like this if they didn't see a payback. It definitely helps to be familiar with a venue and an event before you actually have to compete there. (I know this from personal experience in another sport.)


She reminds me more of Michelle Kwan. She definitely has better competition nerves than Nagasu.

Reminds me of Boitano’s journey in many ways too.

 

[Japanfan]

Every state has different laws around who (licensed clinicians, medical doctors, family and friends) can force involuntary mental health evaluations, and what those evaluations actually involve. In my current state, Washington, people can only be detained in the most extreme circumstances.

In my province a person needs to be assessed as at risk of harming himself/herself, or as posing a threat to others. Probably being in a delusional state could also lead a person to be hospitalized, but in that case there might be the threat of harm to self/others.

 

[screech]

Just a reminder/heads up to people that January 30 is the annual Bell Let's Talk day, the world's largest conversation about mental health.
On that day, for every applicable call, tweet, text, social media video view, and use of the foundations facebook frame or snapchat filter, 5 cents is donated to mental health initiatives. Since its inauguration in 2011, the initiative has raised over $93 million for mental health across Canada.
Even if you're not in Canada, on January 30 please tweet using the hashtag #BellLetsTalk, use the facebook frame or snapchat filter, and watch the Bell Let's Talk Day video on social media (twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat), and if you're a Bell customer, send lots of texts and make lots of phone calls (mobile or long distance).

 

[overedge]

Just a reminder/heads up to people that January 30 is the annual Bell Let's Talk day, the world's largest conversation about mental health.
On that day, for every applicable call, tweet, text, social media video view, and use of the foundations facebook frame or snapchat filter, 5 cents is donated to mental health initiatives. Since its inauguration in 2011, the initiative has raised over $93 million for mental health across Canada.
Even if you're not in Canada, on January 30 please tweet using the hashtag #BellLetsTalk, use the facebook frame or snapchat filter, and watch the Bell Let's Talk Day video on social media (twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat), and if you're a Bell customer, send lots of texts and make lots of phone calls (mobile or long distance).

I'll participate in this after Bell cleans up its own house first.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/bell-employees-stressed-by-sales-targets-1.4418876