From Russia with love [#28]: Autumn to Winter 2017

znhurston said:
I agree but I think they're improving and have one of the better lines in the sport.
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Yeah, I'm not arguing the strengths of both Z/E and T/M. I just think that given the strong tradition of excellence of the country they come from, that there would be more of an effort to actually get some authentic interpretation out of both teams instead of playing it by the numbers and just giving both teams random underwhelming programs.
 
Perky Shae Lynn said:
This is what I want to see from T/M on the ice. Classic. Clean. With a bit of an edge. Sexy. Refined. https://www.instagram.com/p/BYIh6QagQTN/?hl=en&taken-by=tarasova_morozov. Is it too much to ask?
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Apparently it is. At least to date. :drama:

What I saw of Medvedeva's new programs, they are much better choreographed without the excessive histrionics. Although, I'm not sure what Med intended at the end of her sp with her facial expressions, as if she was exaggeratedly gasping for air. :huh: I wish she would lose the arm overhead feature, which is distracting when she does it. It's more of an arm wrap or skimpy port de bras, just thrown in for effect and points. Both sp and fp seem to be in the same style, with same opening position. Her new costumes are still in the works apparently.

She seems to be growing into physical maturity nicely, but she's not yet a bravura performer artistically, as her PCS marks always indicate she is. I totally agree with @Marco's observations and some others who have commented. Medvedeva is a practiced skater who is passionately determined, but there's no authenticity of creative expression in her movements. She's more studied and technically precise, than truly feeling and expressing the music.
 
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I liked the Sinkats free dance alot Choreography by whom?

Their SD was good too. God I hope they win Russian Nationals and beat out Bob/sol this season. I know its a pipe dream but I hope it happens.

Stepanova/Bukin using Sia's Chandellier for their sd...lol. Do they know the song is about alcoholism, partying and suicide?

Bob/Sol - The SD dress is simply fabulous. The SD has potential.
 
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Tinami Amori said:
Thanks! Do you have by chance a link to their LP? I think Topaz was referring to their LP when she said "Stepanova/Bukin using Sia's Chandellier"
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No that's their SD. Sia is in the middle. Someone had the flu and they did not skate their long. We have no idea what it is only that Peter T. choreographed it.
 
DobrinFan said:
No that's their SD. Sia is in the middle. Someone had the flu and they did not skate their long. We have no idea what it is only that Peter T. choreographed it.
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Thanks.... Oy! That is part of their Latin SD?..... holly cow! The girl from Dance Moms in the music video is a much better dancer.... :lol:
 
aftershocks said:
Apparently it is. At least to date. :drama:

What I saw of Medvedeva's new programs, they are much better choreographed without the excessive histrionics. Although, I'm not sure what Med intended at the end of her sp with her facial expressions, as if she was exaggeratedly gasping for air. :huh: I wish she would lose the arm overhead feature, which is distracting when she does it. It's more of an arm wrap or skimpy port de bras, just thrown in for effect and points. Both sp and fp seem to be in the same style, with same opening position. Her new costumes are still in the works apparently.

She seems to be growing into bodily maturity nicely, but she's not yet a bravura performer artistically, as her PCS marks always indicate she is. I totally agree with @Marco's observations and some others who have commented. Medvedeva is a practiced skater who is passionately determined, but there's no authenticity of creative expression in her movements. She's more studied and technically precise, than truly feeling and expressing the music.
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You do realize that you are judging a 17 year old girl who turned senior just two years ago?
 
Vash01 said:
You do realize that you are judging a 17 year old girl who turned senior just two years ago?
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Ummm yep. She's also a two-time World champion who knows how to take no prisoners! I seriously doubt that Evgenia Medvedeva pays much attention to skating fan critiques. I think she has plenty of fans and plenty of supporters and plenty of judges who have fallen prey to her precocious talents. I'm not going to suddenly decide not to discuss or to soft pedal my opinions of skaters' strengths and weaknesses. I'm not tearing her down personally as a 17-year-old high school student. I am offering my opinion of her new skating programs in an Olympic season. And I did point out positive aspects that I see, along with my critical comments. Medvedeva is an elite athlete who is in the public eye. Whether you get that or not, I'm sure she gets it. As an athlete, you either roll with criticism, take what you can use and discard the rest, or crumble.

Just because she's one of your favorite skaters doesn't mean everyone else has to bow down and genuflect. I'm not sure what you're suggesting. I must have missed the memo about suddenly needing to bend over backward to say only sweet things about Medvedeva or else, and to avoid at all costs critiquing the minor or major program and performance-related shortcomings of all teen-aged skaters! :drama:

As far as my comment about her facial expressions at the end of her sp, I was confused what she intended, as it looked like she was still in the character of whatever she was attempting to portray. It seemed like another OTT display of some mysterious emotion at the tail end, after she had completed a more straightforward performance than she usually gives. I certainly was not trying to ridicule her for any kind of normal heavy breathing after a performance.
 
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Vash01 said:
You do realize that you are judging a 17 year old girl who turned senior just two years ago?
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I also think that the Med comments are a bit harsh. I've seen her in exhibitions and such and actually think compared to a lot of skaters she's got really good feel for music. If we want to talk about 'practiced' with zero feel for music let's talk Zagitova....
 
zoe111 said:
I also think that the Med comments are a bit harsh. I've seen her in exhibitions and such and actually think compared to a lot of skaters she's got really good feel for music. If we want to talk about 'practiced' with zero feel for music let's talk Zagitova....
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I have to see more of Zagitova before making a definitive judgment about her musicality or lack thereof in comparison to Medvedeva. As a junior just entering the senior ranks, Zagitova surely has a lot of room for growth aesthetically. OTOH, I've seen more of Marin Honda, and I think she's quite gifted aesthetically (and technically), and so it will be exciting to see how much further Marin can develop as an artist.

Like a number of top senior skaters, Med is not horrible in terms of musicality, but she doesn't have a great feel right now for expressing the music with authenticity, as has been discussed by several posters. That her team prefers to present her as seeming more mature by camouflaging her aesthetic weaknesses with OTT kitschy drama and histrionics, is their choice.

As far as what moves each of us differently as persnickety skating fans: whatever floats your boat. :D As has been said by someone here: we really do not consciously decide who to uber. Some skaters just grab us by the heartstrings. And others don't. Or we can start out not liking a skater, and then grow into big fans of them eventually, sometimes for reasons that are obvious, but often the reasons why are not that easy to pinpoint. There are also cases where we may be initially captured by a skater's potential, and then lose interest when the something special we may have thought we detected doesn't go anywhere. It is what it is. And sometimes it ain't what it could be. :COP: :lol: :drama:
 
Are the critiques Medvedeva gets any different than what Yuna Kim, Mao, Michelle, or Tara got at the same age? I think people are being very specific in their critiques and not tearing her down personally. Medvedeva is not a regular 17 year old skater. She's a two time world champion so of course she's going to be held to a higher standard.
 
jenny12 said:
Are the critiques Medvedeva gets any different than what Yuna Kim, Mao, Michelle, or Tara got at the same age? I think people are being very specific in their critiques and not tearing her down personally. Medvedeva is not a regular 17 year old skater. She's a two time world champion so of course she's going to be held to a higher standard.
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Since you mentioned specific skaters-

Yu na was a natural artist, even at a very young age. At age 17 she was highly praised. She had not yet won a world title, I think.

Mao at 17- she was criticized for her jump technique but not for her artistry, as I recall. She was a naturally lyrical skater but she was winning because of her jumps. I don't remember people speaking harshly about her artistry. She became a great artist later in her career.

Not everyone is a born artist. Michelle had to work on her artistry and at age 17 she was considered a great artist. However, she didn't have to land 3-3 jumps, so she had time to devote to artistic development. There is much more pressure on skaters to land the jumps, particularly in Russia, so it is not a surprise that there is not a lot of artistic development there. Still, Zhenya is very good for her age. I loved her exhibitions for their artistry. Her competition programs are not just jumps. There is artistic expression, though she is limited in the type of artistry right now. She needs time to develop and it will come with the years.

Tara at age 17 was a retiree. She retired from competition after winning the OGM at age 15. She developed some artistry, skating as a pro but I don't recall anyone saying she was an artist. Her strength was in her jump consistency.

Oksana Baiul, who you didn't mention was a born artist. Like Yu na and Mao.

The bottom line is it takes years to develop artistry. Carolina, who you didn't mention, is a prime example. At 17 she was nowhere close to what Medvedeva is. What a great artist she is now!
 
Every one of those skaters faced similar critiques that Medvedeva is receiving now, and yes though the jumping standard is higher now, Kwan faced pressure to do 7 clean triples and was criticized for not doing a 3/3 in the LP after her Nagano loss. In the case of Tara, who was 15 and also two years into her senior career at the beginning of the Olympic season, she may have received worse critiques. I think it's fair if people want to talk about Med's skating as it exists now and why it does not resonate with them so long as they're not overly harsh or petty because nobody can judge on who she can become once she matures.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
Every one of those skaters faced similar critiques that Medvedeva is receiving now, and yes though the jumping standard is higher now, Kwan faced pressure to do 7 clean triples and was criticized for not doing a 3/3 in the LP after her Nagano loss. In the case of Tara, who was 15 and also two years into her senior career at the beginning of the Olympic season, she may have received worse critiques. I think it's fair if people want to talk about Med's skating as it exists now and why it does not resonate with them so long as they're not overly harsh or petty because nobody can judge on who she can become once she matures.
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I agree. My qualms with Medvedeva have little to do with her skating, which I find more and more aesthetically pleasing. It's her jump placement and overhead arm(s) on her jumps that annoy me. I understand she does this to increase her TES but I also think this undermines the aesthetics of her overall performance. Thus, I tend to have the opposite experience watching her compete as I did watching Plushenko who front-loaded his programs with jumps and then pretty much coasted through the rest of the program. Now I think Medvedeva's choreography is much better than Plushenko's but I still have a tendency to feel a bit cheated during the first half of her programs as I wait for her to start jumping.
 
znhurston said:
Now I think Medvedeva's choreography is much better than Plushenko's .
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Totally... Plushenko had charisma, a feeling for his music, but his choreography was more than often painful to watch, lots of center-ice posing, flirting with the judges instead of real skating. Medvedeva does have a good choreographed programs, she still has room to improve the feeling of her music.
 
Maofan7 said:
Alina Zagitova documentary with English subtitles
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I wish there were more Zagitova's youtube interviews translated. She is so sweet...... and lonely, living without the whole family at such a young age. She goes back home only once a year. Recently her grand-mother moved to Moscow to keep her company.

There are 2 very nice ones, in one she tells a story how she was gifted a pet-chinchilla, and one day found a little baby chinchilla, and could not figure out "how" it happened, then learned "it came this way". In the same interview she says Etri is a big role model for her, she wants to look, talk, behave like her because she is classy/cool. It's in Russian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kcFUPQhHc8

Just FYI: Alina has a younger sister who is also up and coming skater.... :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_pApj_I4xs
 
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She is really cute. And I think is adorable that she keeps her instagram profile picture with Yuzuru for so long.
 
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