Evgenia Medvedeva out of 2018 Worlds

[Tinami Amori]

Oh, I understand...

But I do think it's a bit silly to hold athletes up as role models when it comes to choices like college.

And i think it is silly not to... people may not want to admit it, but with a college degree and education, one not only gains knowledge and profession, but also it puts one into a different social class. Classes exist even if liberal media tells you otherwise, or at least "people in a certain class" may not announce it openly, but will look at one's back ground before letting one in. like it or not. I want Med to go to the top.

 

[skatepixie]

And i think it is silly not to... people may not want to admit it, but with a college degree and education, one not only gains knowledge and profession, but also it puts one into a different social class. Classes exist even if liberal media tells you otherwise, or at least "people in a certain class" may not announce it openly, but will look at one's back ground before letting one in. like it or not. I want Med to go to the top.

And yet, art, entertainment, and sport are something entirely separate from the usual strata. If she still wanted college, then she can do it at any age. The college experience of going at 18 and experiencing that sort of social scene is overrated and, frankly, often destructive, full of terrible choices and drunken mistakes. Older students often get more of what matters out of their college years.

Evgenia is already at the top (she is the best at what she does, is famous, is wealthy) -- a thousand degrees won't make her of a higher status than she already is. Pretty much the only thing that could would be marriage to an aristocrat or oligarch. Because she has already achieved the highest things possible in terms of "status by merit." The only thing she lacks, from a sociological point of view, is the sort of status that comes from inherited wealth and power.

University gets you upper middle class professional status -- something much below a famous athlete. There are a million doctors for every multi-Olympic medalist, after all.

Note -- I am not saying that she should marry for status -- not at all, just that college won't do anything to change her status. From the point of sociology, it isn't even needed for a woman (as she would take the status of her husband, if she married). If she had some professional goal that requires a degree, fine, great, but in the eyes of most, it's a postscript at best, and certainly not as high status as World and Olympic prizes.

 

[skatepixie]

Truthfully, it is a moot point anyway, as she will be given a degree in sport science (or however they term it) as all top Russian athletes are. It's good for coaching, if needed, and qualifies as a degree. My understanding is she is already enrolled/working toward one, though they tend to take the "slow road" and not get caught up in University life -- not that I think that's bad, at all. So she will have the piece of paper, either way.

 

[jenniferlyon]

I would like to see Evgenia get an education at some point because she seems like an intelligent young lady who would get a lot out of the experience. I'm talking about learning for its own sake, not for making more money or gaining social status. But if she wants to keep skating, then that's what she should do. College can wait.

 

[skatepixie]

I would like to see Evgenia get an education at some point because she seems like an intelligent young lady who would get a lot out of the experience. I'm talking about learning for its own sake, not for making more money or gaining social status. But if she wants to keep skating, then that's what she should do. College can wait.

Oh yeah, if she wants to, that's great. Seems like she's doing undergrad currently, through the sports university, so she will have a degree no matter what, which is nice.

A lot of times, intelligent, driven people struggle with the busy-work involved in undergrad, as well as the lax party atmosphere -- though my understanding is that Russia has less busy-work than US universities. I don't see her temperament working well with the typical US undergrad culture.

There's a lot of learning to be done both inside and outside the university structure -- and I'm sure she will find those opportunities, degree or not.

 

[paskatefan]

Wishing Evgenia a full recovery!

 

[skatesindreams]

Wishing Med a full recovery.

As do I.

 

[mjb52]

This thread has made me really curious about how college in Russia compares to college in the US both socially and logistically.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I would like to see Evgenia get an education at some point because she seems like an intelligent young lady who would get a lot out of the experience. I'm talking about learning for its own sake, not for making more money or gaining social status. But if she wants to keep skating, then that's what she should do. College can wait.

IMO, US undergrad is simply an expensive socialization process. I think Evgenia is getting lots of great education, and on a rather grand scale. If she needs a specific set of credentials for something specific (i.e. engineering) then she will, I am sure, turn her attention and determination to that matter.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Evgenia is already at the top (she is the best at what she does, is famous, is wealthy) -- a thousand degrees won't make her of a higher status than she already is. Pretty much the only thing that could would be marriage to an aristocrat or oligarch.

oh, my... status has nothing to do with marriage. Between "being an athlete with status" and "married to an oligarch" there are MANY!!! options, such as being completely independent of all, including "mystical husband", and a well educated, highly paid professional with access to the high level intelligencia, professional and business circles of a given society, which are not too accessable for "entertainers" (actors, athletes, singers, etc). but, i'll leave it at that, we have different opinions and hopes for Med, and that's fine.

 

[jenniferlyon]

IMO, US undergrad is simply an expensive socialization process.

I didn't have the typical college experience, so it wasn't like that for me. I went to a commuter school near downtown Detroit at a time when the surrounding neighborhoods were a no-go zone. Only a handful of foreign students and artsy types lived on or near the campus. Most of my fellow students were ten or more years older than myself. They were nice people, but they were in a different phase of life. They had homes, jobs, spouses, kids, etc. If I wanted to party, I had to do it off campus with my old friends from high school. I didn't have much of a social life at school, but I did get an education. I got even more of an education riding the bus every day. That was a major area of study in and of itself.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I didn't have the typical college experience, so it wasn't like that for me. I went to a commuter school near downtown Detroit at a time when the surrounding neighborhoods were a no-go zone. Only a handful of foreign students and artsy types lived on or near the campus. Most of my fellow students were ten or more years older than myself. They were nice people, but they were in a different phase of life. They had homes, jobs, spouses, kids, etc. If I wanted to party, I had to do it off campus with my old friends from high school. I didn't have much of a social life at school, but I did get an education. I got even more of an education riding the bus every day. That was a major area of study in and of itself.

IMO..commuter school students are much more focused. I started at UC Santa Barbara. Everyone was trying to find themselves. I didn't have time to even look...I was working two jobs. I transferred to a State school and whizzed through in 3 1/2 years. I have a degree in English......totally useless unless you want to explore Wordsworth's spots of time.

As an employer I do look for employees who have a college degree....not for what they studied but because they finished something hard and optional. Says a lot about their character and commitment.

 

[mag]

As an employer I do look for employees who have a college degree....not for what they studied but because they finished something hard and optional. Says a lot about their character and commitment.

That is why, IMHO, an English degree is not useless. It is an education, helps you learn how to think, how to write, how to coherently argue a point. All skills needed in many jobs.

 

[Simone411]

Keeping Evgenia in my prayers for a complete recovery from her foot injury. IMO, having an English degree is a very wise and useful decision. I didn't go to College. I went to a vocational school for Accounting. Of course, I was around 20 years old when I attended Vo-tech. One of the required courses for Accounting was English which also helped me to get a job at a property mgt. corporation. I worked there 15 years.

I had to communicate with the USDA Rural Development each day transmitting information in Industry Interface. I was thankful that I took the English course because of being in contact with them every day. Grammar was very important because of the communication I had with the USDA. The information I had to transmit through Industry Interface dealt with rental assistance, Applications, Recertification, Move-ins and Move-outs. The corporation I worked for owned and managed 152 apartment complexes throughout Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

 

[giselle23]

And i think it is silly not to... people may not want to admit it, but with a college degree and education, one not only gains knowledge and profession, but also it puts one into a different social class. Classes exist even if liberal media tells you otherwise, or at least "people in a certain class" may not announce it openly, but will look at one's back ground before letting one in. like it or not. I want Med to go to the top.

Well, yes and no. Many people in the entertainment and sports industries in the US do not have college degrees. Athletes often have some college because they played college sports. But the best are recruited by professional teams before graduation. For most top athletes, as well as actors, singers and others whose careers allow success without college, getting a degree becomes a personal choice. I know Michael Jordan went back to finish his degree when he was injured. It didn't make any difference in his success or ability to make a lot of money. So-called social class in America is a nebulous concept that isn't totally defined by education. Fame and money have social power, too.

 

[Rock2]

As an employer I do look for employees who have a college degree....not for what they studied but because they finished something hard and optional. Says a lot about their character and commitment.

Sidebar convo but a big area of focus in my career -- career development and recruiting.

Big picture is, I look at how people spend their time. Period.
With their time, what do they accomplish, what skills do they build? Some of it is evident but much of it leaves the onus on the student/job candidate to explain how what they are doing with their time has helped them prepare for the role.

And I'm open minded. I hire for business/management type stuff. You being in a band may not seem relevant but can signal ability to collaborate.
People ask me if they should join clubs etc at school and it's not just about that. It's what you do once in the club? Do you take on and lead big projects or events? Do you fundraise and hit goals? That's what matters.

I separate people pretty quickly into types that are just killing time waiting for their ship to come in vs those who are using their time on earth to actually 'do' or 'cause' something. Anything. That doesn't mean being an over-achiever. Bar isn't all that high but that's where I start with resumes when I recruit.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I separate people pretty quickly into types that are just killing time waiting for their ship to come in vs those who are using their time on earth to actually 'do' or 'cause' something.

As we say in Russia - these are Golden words!

 

[Japanfan]

Well, the arm over the head is going away next season.

Why? Is there a new rule that doesn't allow it, or has Med herself said she will no longer do it?

 

[Tinami Amori]

Medvedeva's interview (in English): Olympics review and miscl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNZs6TGd4pY

 

[IceAlisa]

Why? Is there a new rule that doesn't allow it, or has Med herself said she will no longer do it?

They allow it but also they will be able to ding an ugly arm position. Which is the one rule I totally support.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Why? Is there a new rule that doesn't allow it, or has Med herself said she will no longer do it?

There is no such rule. That other comment is bull..hit. There is a switch to -5/+5 points for tech element (instead of -3/+3).

 

[Japanfan]

Well, yes and no. Many people in the entertainment and sports industries in the US do not have college degrees. Athletes often have some college because they played college sports. But the best are recruited by professional teams before graduation. For most top athletes, as well as actors, singers and others whose careers allow success without college, getting a degree becomes a personal choice. I know Michael Jordan went back to finish his degree when he was injured. It didn't make any difference in his success or ability to make a lot of money. So-called social class in America is a nebulous concept that isn't totally defined by education. Fame and money have social power, too.

Yes, but in the absence of fame and wealth, education makes a big difference in terms of both status and perspective.

My first husband came from a working class family, whereas I came from a professional family (on both my parents' sides, including an aunt who worked as a teacher and another aunt who served in the war among the Wrens).

It posed a real gap between us (all the more so because I was female and he wanted me to be a housewife my entire life) and was one of the early indicators that the relationship was doomed to fail.

 

[Japanfan]

There is no such rule. That other comment is bull..hit. There is a switch to -5/+5 points for tech element (instead of -3/+3).

I am yet to be convinced that this will lead to any improvement in the scoring.

The plus 5 will however allow new world records to be made. I wonder if that is one of the reasons the GOE range was increased, given that TPTB love new world records.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I am yet to be convinced that this will lead to any improvement in the scoring.

Oh, i agree. but there is another discussion about this, so we can jump there if you like.

 

[PRlady]

Yes, but in the absence of fame and wealth, education makes a big difference in terms of both status and perspective.

My first husband came from a working class family, whereas I came from a professional family (on both my parents' sides, including an aunt who worked as a teacher and another aunt who served in the war among the Wrens).

It posed a real gap between us (all the more so because I was female and he wanted me to be a housewife my entire life) and was one of the early indicators that the relationship was doomed to fail.

That's me as well. My husband didn't want a housewife but he did want me home by 6, and I was getting started in a demanding field with crazy hours. But the key fact that I went to college and some grad school, and he was put on a bus by his parents with $100 at age 17 to come to DC for a job as a GS-2 keypuncher, was going to get us at some point. And it did.

I know enough Russians here and in the US to understand the value placed on education and professional credentials. The ones I know are Jewish for the most part but Tinami's emphasis on culture and class and coming from a good family is very typical. I think Americans have some of the same metrics but it's more subliminal since we're supposed to be so democratic and all....