Discussing Tuberidze's latest interview

[muffinplus]

Muffuinplus GTFO with this. Agnostic team weigh-ins if the coaches aren't pushing athletes to cut weight down to unhealthy levels for their natural weight may not trigger disordered eating, but if a coach is monitoring every increase in weight and favor is doled out based on those numbers then OF COURSE athletes will start monitoring themselves daily as well and trying make the number on the scale go down on a daily basis. There's going to be a huge amount of anxiety for them around trying to control exact numbers on a scale daily.

I've stopped reading after gtfo with this. If you cannot respond with something factual as opposed to hurling insults... And making assumptions.. Not interested back to the ignore list

 

[tony]

Tony this is not the same thing at all and you can't be actually arguing this in good faith. There are studies that if someone has suffered from an eating disorder in the past, and they have been in the recovery process for a long time, and are working under professional guidance in the recovery process, then once a day (and only once a day) weigh-ins once they have reached their healthy target weight established by a medical team may help them feel more in control and less apt to starve or binge. That is not the same thing as daily pressure to maintain a weight well below what's healthy for their bodies.

And what about the athlete that gets weighed weekly and A) knows they've eaten like shit for the week and is scared of what's going to happen or B) doesn't know they've eaten like shit and suddenly weigh 3-4 more pounds? IMO, that's where the more severe risk is going to come in young people because of the bigger numbers, and where the more drastic measures would occur.

The skaters and athletes in general can't really win. If they aren't monitoring the stuff themselves (or via their coaches), then they might show up to a competition not in optimal shape and fans in comments elsewhere (even some here in PBP threads are guilty) will comment how they are 'out of shape' or even 'fat'.

I would say the only way to avoid all of this is to give proper nutrition training from a young age not only as athletes but for overall health, but even then, it certainly doesn't guarantee everyone will adhere.

 

[muffinplus]

I wasn't aware I did that....

Fair enough but some definitely are. I didn't know anything about the subject for the record. I did want to Google to find out more and to see if there was basically a study that said this definitively.

 

[muffinplus]

I downloaded the article and read the entire article (rather than just the abstract). One issue I have with the study is that participants were not asked how often the team weigh-ins were. Were they daily? Weekly?



This is what the article had to say about the frequency of weighing:

Self-weighing, particularly 3 or more times per
week, was related to more dietary restraint and higher
levels of bulimic symptoms. Restricting caloric intake
and purging (e.g., excessive exercising, vomiting) are
behavioral means through which athletes may try to
lose weight and bring their bodies closer to their desired
weight. Self-weighing provides immediate verification of
success or failure, and orients female athletes toward their
bodies and reminds them of their actual weight. The more
constant the reminder that their weight is discrepant from
their ideal, the stronger their motivation to calorically
restrict or purge in hopes of eventually changing the numbers
on the scale. Regardless of the weight outcome, the
athletes’ self-weighing behaviors are reinforced because
the scale provides them with self-evaluative information.

Were the team weigh-ins more or less often than three times a week? The study does not specify. Since they seem critical of athletes who self-weigh more than three times a week, it might be possible that the team weigh ins were less often than that. It seems that's a pretty important variable that they neglected to collect.



Perhaps in one of the below citations?

Greenleaf, C.A., Petrie, T.A., Carter, J., & Reel, J.J. (2009).
Female collegiate athletes: Prevalence of eating disorders
and disordered eating behaviors. Journal of American
College Health, 57, 489–495. PubMed doi:10.3200/
JACH.57.5.489-496

Kerr, G., Berman, E., & De Souza, M.J. (2006). Disordered
eating in women’s gymnastics: Perspectives of athletes,
coaches, parents, and judges. Journal of Applied Sport
Psychology, 18, 28–43. doi:10.1080/10413200500471301

Martinsen, M., & Sundgot-Borgen, J. (2013). Higher
prevalence of eating disorders among adolescent elite
athletes than controls. Medicine and Science in Sports
and Exercise, 45(6), 1188–1197. PubMed doi:10.1249/
MSS.0b013e318281a939

Petrie, T.A., & Greenleaf, C.A. (2012a). Eating disorders in
sport. In Murphy, S. M. (Ed), The Oxford Handbook of
Sport and Performance Psychology (635-659). New York,
NY, USA: Oxford University Press. http://dx.doi.org/
doi:10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199731763.013.0034

Reel, J. J. & Gill, D. L. (2001). Slim enough to swim? Weight
pressures for competitive swimmers and coaching implications.
The Sport Journal, 4.

Reel, J. J., Petrie, T. A., SooHoo, S., & Anderson, C. M. (2013).
Weight pressures in sport: Examining the factor structure
and incremental validity of the weight pressures in sport
– Females. Eating Behaviors, 14, 137–144. PubMed
doi:10.1016/j.eatbeh.2013.01.003

Sundgot-Borgen, J., & Torstveit, M.K. (2004). Prevalence of
eating disorders in elite athletes is higher than in the general
population. Clinical Journal of Sport Medicine, 14,
25–32. PubMed doi:10.1097/00042752-200401000-00005

Why did they find this for self weigh ins but not for team weigh ins?

 

[Impromptu]

Why did they find this for self weigh ins but not for team weigh ins?

They did not come up with a definitive answer. One of their theories was that the team weigh-ins were "done appropriately by medical personnel."

I'm not satisfied with the validity because they didn't collect data on the frequency of the team weigh-ins.

 

[marbri]

Reading some of the posts in this thread, particularly those in defence of this method of weigh ins, I think a vital piece of information is missing. Who determines, and how is it determined, what the goal weight is for each of Eteri's girls? Because if it's closer to those charts canbelto posted then arguments about teaching good nutrition and healthy weight management for an elite athlete probably don't apply....

 

[MacMadame]

If one was to get weighed once a week and noticed they'd put on 3 or 4 pounds, don't you think there would be a more desperate effort to lose that weight quickly?

To gain 3-4 pounds of fat (not water), you'd have to eat 10,500 to 14,000 calories more than you burned in exercise. (So around 2000 calories more a day). I'm sorry but no one can do that without realizing they are doing it. Having some extra treats even if you do it every day is not going to lead to that kind of weight gain.

 

[tony]

To gain 3-4 pounds of fat (not water), you'd have to eat 10,500 to 14,000 calories more than you burned in exercise. (So around 2000 calories more a day). I'm sorry but no one can do that without realizing they are doing it. Having some extra treats even if you do it every day is not going to lead to that kind of weight gain.

Who is talking about fat specifically? They are being weighed. Not measured for body fat as far as I see. What we don't know is what they are or are not drinking the night before, before the weigh-in, etc. unless I've skipped over the specific practice being done.

I realize what calorie surplus and deficit it takes to gain and lose weight, and I know what water does. You think everyone else does? If you weigh someone once a week but don't talk about intake/output and they see the 3-4 pound gain, it's not going to matter where that extra weight came from if the athlete has no knowledge of nutrition. They will most likely panic, no?

 

[Kateri]

Weighing daily is pointless in anyone menstruating, as variation is totally expected. And assuming we are talking about teenage girls, they are SUPPOSED to be gaining weight. They are growing! That anyone can defend this kind of scrutiny as harmless is amazing.

 

[bladesofgorey]

I love these completely made up scenarios where Tuberidzes is actually helping athletes have normal healthy attitudes toward weight and food, keep going it's amazing.

 

[tony]

Weighing daily is pointless in anyone menstruating, as variation is totally expected. And assuming we are talking about teenage girls, they are SUPPOSED to be gaining weight. They are growing! That anyone can defend this kind of scrutiny as harmless is amazing.

I don't think it's necessarily always harmless, but are you arguing that weekly maintenance checks are better, or that it shouldn't happen at all? If it doesn't happen at all and they are subject to the scrutiny of friends and social media when they aren't maintaining optimal shape, then what is the answer to the problem as a whole? Is there one? And rather than the pathetic 'keep going it's amazing' @bladesofgorey gives, what is the correct way to do it? Take a look around FSU and some of the comments that come out here from the always politically correct crew regarding weight. Take a look around any time Daleman posts a completely FaceTuned pic on social media and A) see how many people like it or B) they trash it with comments here or elsewhere about how it's fake. You think it's any different outside of here? Yeah, it is. It's worse.

I remember being in high school and having first period class with several wrestlers who would have to basically starve the day before because they had to be under a certain weight by the check-in early in the morning or they were forfeiting their matches. I always thought that was a little bit crazy, and my teacher always used to let them go to the cafeteria to get a snack once that was done because it was obvious some were struggling. Should weight classes in wrestling be abolished too? That goes all the way up to adult levels with boxing, wrestling, UFC as pros, too.

I don't know that there's a 'best way' answer, but if someone else thinks there is, go ahead.

 

[BittyBug]

If one was to get weighed once a week and noticed they'd put on 3 or 4 pounds, don't you think there would be a more desperate effort to lose that weight quickly? These younger people aren't as knowledgable in nutrition but a sudden big gain that was only tracked once a week would, IMO, make things a lot more dangerous if they aren't taught the right thing.

Someone as physically active as these young girls and women are is simply not going to gain 3 to 4 pounds in a week. And of course they should be receiving sound nutritional guidance as part of their overall training plan, but not drinking water and eating one shrimp is not sound nutritional guidance.

And yes, of course there are other sports and activities that are obsessive about weight, like wrestling, jockeying, ballet, etc. And they all have rampant issues with eating disorders, especially bulimia. Wrestlers are known to abuse diuretics to make their cutoff, jockeys purge by vomiting or laxatives, ballet dancers engage in all of the above - and guess what? - all of that still doesn't make Tutberidze's, or any other coach's, daily weigh ins acceptable.

 

[giselle23]

There should be no weigh-ins by coaches/coaching team, period. Skaters can monitor their own weight if they want to. Coaches are there to teach and help improve skills and performance, not to make sure their skaters are a certain body-type (ie, thin). There can be nutritionists on the staff or available for consultation to help their skaters eat healthy. That should be it.

 

[MacMadame]

I realize what calorie surplus and deficit it takes to gain and lose weight, and I know what water does. You think everyone else does? If you weigh someone once a week but don't talk about intake/output and they see the 3-4 pound gain, it's not going to matter where that extra weight came from if the athlete has no knowledge of nutrition. They will most likely panic, no?

They need to be educated about proper nutrition. Several have said that here. That is more important than this focus on weight.

I would submit that weight is the wrong measurement to be collecting anyway. Athletes should concentrate on body composition more than weight IMO. Gaining muscle often improves performance so not all weight gain is bad.

I agree with @BittyBug that athletes can't really gain 3-4 pounds in one week even with water weight either. Most people's weight fluctuates about 1-2 pounds all the time and even gaining 1-2 pounds of fat in a week (to get up to 3-4 lb difference) would involve more eating than anyone can do accidentally.

I find that if I weigh myself every week at the same time under the same circumstances, that my weight fluctuates fractions of a pound most of the time. But if I weigh myself every day, I see way more fluctuations and it sometimes does cause panic. Which is why I no longer do it. In fact, during periods where my weight is stable, I don't weigh at all unless how my clothes fit changes. I'm only weighing now because the pandem-ic threw off my normal schedule and that caused a weight gain -- which I was very aware was happening even without weighing myself.

 

[Willin]

@MacMadame Not to mention weight varies by time of day, activity level that day, bladder and stomach status (full/empty), and a lot more. For healthy people that can be 1-2 lbs (up to 1kg).

 

[Hedwig]

when they aren't maintaining optimal shape

this in a nutshell is the problem. People that think only very thin people are in optimal shape and are forcing children to starve. Did you read about the gymnasts smuggling food into their luggage? Not treat like chocolate but just actual food so that they would not starve during training camps?

I think it is not so much the emphasize in thinness per se (because we have great examples of skaters who are not anorexidly thin but healthy and full of functioning muscles) as that you have a way to control athlets and make them desperate and focus on the one thing in life - food. People like Eteri either wilfully use this to control their athlets or they have been raised with the same principles and never thought about how stupid and dangerous it is.

This has never been about maintaining optimal shape. Or are you arguing that someone like Sherbakova has optimal shape? Maybe instead of raising the age limit a minimum BMI should be established.

 

[tony]

This has never been about maintaining optimal shape. Or are you arguing that someone like Sherbakova has optimal shape? Maybe instead of raising the age limit a minimum BMI should be established.

BMI is worthless as it is, especially for athletes on both ends of spectrum. Everyone has a different body type so optimal isn’t going to be one size fits all, and you can see that amongst the Russian women as a starter. Unless you’re arguing that all of them have Anna’s slender build? Valieva and Trusova are much different in stature and those two are leading the way into the Olympics.

 

[Hedwig]

Anna is not slender. She is starved.

I don't think BMI is worthless but very hard to set a good range. What is very certain is that this kind of behaviour against children - not just in Russia but also in other countries - is a travesty and we need ways to stop it.

 

[Willin]

The thing too is this: they are promoting wholly disordered eating and saying any little break spells the end. Did they not see the incredibly popular McDonald's in the Olympic village? Plenty of medal winners eat there at the Olympics. Or how many athletes drink alcohol on occasion? As long as you're healthy most of the time, treating yourself in moderation is okay.

 

[Hedwig]

this is not about treating yourself. This is about getting the absolute bare minimum of food and going hungry the whole time. This is being weak from not enough nourishment and blaming everything that goes wrong on your food intake and then poisoning food for life for you.

 

[canbelto]

Fwiw I weigh myself every day bc Noom says to ...

 

[muffinplus]

Anna is not slender. She is starved.

I don't think BMI is worthless but very hard to set a good range. What is very certain is that this kind of behaviour against children - not just in Russia but also in other countries - is a travesty and we need ways to stop it.

Body shaming teenagers now? Disgusting comment with no basis for it. she has actually filled out quite a bit to the way she was pre puberty… ie. in terms of curves. This is her body type for all we know. Some people are naturally slender/ thin looking.

 

[canbelto]

Who can forget Yulia Lipnitskaya calling Nathan Chen "fat"?

 

[tony]

Who can forget Yulia Lipnitskaya calling Nathan Chen "fat"?

Wasn’t that a misinterpretation or someone being overdramatic?

 

[Hedwig]

Body shaming teenagers now? Disgusting comment with no basis for it. she has actually filled out quite a bit to the way she was pre puberty… ie. in terms of curves. This is her body type for all we know. Some people are naturally slender/ thin looking.

I think your comments in this thread have made it very clear that you have no understanding about what abuse means and what a devastating impact the starvation and eating treatment this athlets suffer from has on children, teenagers and adults.
This is not about preference for a skater or a coach. This is about destroying people.

 

[taz'smum]

d..

 

[Wyliefan]

Who can forget Yulia Lipnitskaya calling Nathan Chen "fat"?

She didn't.

To be fair to her, she said something like his skating was a little heavy (as in laboured) that day, but it's funnier to run with this.

 

[Vagabond]

She didn't.

The source for this is this, in a play-by-play thread:

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/2018-pyeongchang-olympics-men-fs-the-im-pooh-sible-dream.103387/post-5295999

Lipnitskaya called Chen "fat".

IINM, @Andrey aka Pushkin is a native speaker of Russian, and he was listening to the live commentary.

Unless someone can find a recording of Lipnitskaya's commentary and demonstrate Andrey was mistaken, I will believe that Lipnitskaya did say it.

 

[jeffisjeff]

I fail to see any connection between adults choosing to weigh themselves everyday and children (and especially pre-teen and teen girls) being required to weigh themselves everyday. Even if one believes both are just fine, they aren't similar situations AT ALL, so why mention the former when discussing the latter?

 

[skateboy]

Am I the only one who has weighed myself almost every day for most of my life? When I was skating it helped me and it still helps me to keep fit. I have never had an eating disorder.

If I gain more than 5 pounds I just don't feel right.