Dick Button's lament

[Tinami Amori]

Dick Button fawning over Rodnina and Zaitsev
Dick Button in rapt wonder over Gordeeva and Grinkov
Dick Button enjoying wee Elena Vodorezova
Dick Button impressed with Vladimir Kotin
Dick Button loving Irina Slutskaya's technique, energy, and speed, if not her style

He lurves his Russians when they have good technique. Woe unto them, though, if they don't!

Ha.... . None were "threats" to the Americans....
- US pairs where not in gold medal contention, or medal(?) contention at that time. Russians were beyond reach, might as well praise them.
- Vodorezova and Kotin were not a threat to Americans for Gold, and unlikely to medal in most competitions.
- Irina Slutskaya in 1998 (as per video) could not displace Kwan even with perfect FS due to SP placement.
He could very well be generous with comments. It all changed by per, during, and after Olys 2002, when Slutskaya went head to head with Kwan, and Plushenko (with Yagudin) were fighting to place on the podium against Goebel.

Well, now he says good things about Med and Zag, because they are beyond reach.... I'd like to hear him if an American lady was a Gold medal contender..... or rather, not like to hear him..

For the record, i found few links (ref. to what i said above):
http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jan/07/sports/sp-20905
- said about Irina “that position is ugly”

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2014...unfiltered-voice-of-figure-skating-sounds-off
ridiculed Irina for blowing her nose before warm-up and progrmme, saying it does not make the right impression with the judges and audience. pathetic comment, as most skaters blow their nose before they skate.

"Button: I do let a lot of that out. The chapters in the book are all different subjects. One of them is called "Entrances and Exits" -- what do skaters do when they enter the ice? Irina Slutskaya, for example, the first thing she does is blow her nose. And that's showing it to 18,000 people [in attendance] and how many million people off stage?"

https://www.teamusa.org/News/2018/F...Years-Later-And-State-Of-Figure-Skating-Today
“He once said that Russian skater Evgeni Plushenko was spinning with “his head leaning forward like it was about to fall off like a cannonball rolling ...”

 

[Vagabond]

Breaking news: Slutskaya had some ugly positions!

In other news, objects are pulled downwards by the force of gravity.

 

[Wyliefan]

Dick Button fawning over Rodnina and Zaitsev
Dick Button in rapt wonder over Gordeeva and Grinkov
Dick Button enjoying wee Elena Vodorezova
Dick Button impressed with Vladimir Kotin
Dick Button loving Irina Slutskaya's technique, energy, and speed, if not her style

He lurves his Russians when they have good technique. Woe unto them, though, if they don't!

Or when they had cute rosy cheeks he could pinch!

 

[Vagabond]

 

[Tinami Amori]

Breaking news: Slutskaya had some ugly positions!

And i thought Kwan's spiral was ugly and lump sided, and her smile with all the teeth showing up to the gums looked idiotic.... but that is us, fans, talking and such terms are suited for private discussions and opinions on fan sites.

"ugly" is such a word, suited for a personal opinion. For a professional sports-caster the proper language is "not a correct position", "wrong form", "any adjective which describes a given element and what's wrong" are perfectly fine. But not "ugly"; it is not an acceptable language for a major network who has exclusive rights to the Olympics hosted in its own country.

When Tarasova said, on a local strictly Russian pod-cast that "Megan and Eric don't have that man-woman chemistry", or "balletic style programme is not a perfect choice for Osmond" all hell broke loose with North American fans .... and yet she did not use any derogatory terms, and where describing issue common to a skating programme discussion.

I am glad Button is no longer a sports-caster, and we see him less, and less, and less.... and eventually not at all.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

PML at the band playing music on the ice

Rumour has it Sonja wanted to skate to Aerosmith, but the string quartet only had sheet music available for a nice Strauss waltz.

 

[Vagabond]

The band on the ice is the best part. Any number of more recent programs would have been immensely enriched by a live band (and possibly a vocalist). Rodnina & Zaitsev's 1973 Free Skate is a particularly good example.

 

[Japanfan]

When Tarasova said, on a local strictly Russian pod-cast that "Megan and Eric don't have that man-woman chemistry", or "balletic style programme is not a perfect choice for Osmond" all hell broke loose with North American fans .... and yet she did not use any derogatory terms, and where describing issue common to a skating programme discussion.

I guess I missed all that hell breaking loose.

North American fans are well aware that Megan and Eric don't have man-woman chemistry. They themselves have stated this exactly, and pointed out that they created a style unique to them that works. I don't think it's possible to disagree that it works, given that they have two world titles (one earned in a field where they were not the favorites), an Olympic bronze, and quite a few national titles.

Also, do you mean that she said 'program to a ballet', rather than 'balletic style program'? When a skater has a balletic style, it doesn't mean they are skating to ballet.

Kaetlyn's 'Swan Lake' is not my favorite program of hers (love her SP this season!), but that's more because the music is over-used, not because of how Kaetlyn interpreted it. I thought her interpretation was bold and fierce, and matire - and therefore quite refreshing in comparison to 'baby ballerina' routines to the same music. She sold the heck out of that program!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Button's comments about top Russians (in 2000's) were simply vile and reeked of "cold war mentality". His comments were particularly inappropriate (for a national sports caster vs. private sports fan) towards Slutskaya, Sokolova and Plushenko. I can't quote him word for word, it was 15+ years ago, but the following is fairly accurate...
Irina: he constantly called her positions "ugly", and ridiculed her for "blowing her nose before a skate while millions watched her on TV and in the arena" (he considered it not classy).
Elena: he constantly called her a "cream-puff" in her younger days, suggesting she is "plump".
Plush: he made many uncalled for comments, one i remember was kind of like this.. "he uses his head like a bomb rolling into the enemy camp".

If you will insist, i can do a google search and see if i can find some links maybe.. But i will tell you one fact. Many Russian/USSR-American immigrants, including me, sent messages to the Network, stating that if he is not removed or modifies his commentary to more objective and less "anti-Russian", we, being one of the biggest audience segment for figure skating events on US, will turn off TV every time he is commentating, as we will not stand for our country of birth being unjustly insulted.

I have not followed him much into the early 2010's, but his 2018 Oly figure skating commentary, about Russians, is not negative or vile, even when he critiques. He did gave Russians critique, but it was constructive, not insulting... just as it should be: constructive.

[B]Dick Button[/B]‏Verified account @[B]PushDicksButton[/B] Feb 22
Zagitova is a Ballerina on the ice. Same quality as Ludmillia Protopopov

[B]Dick Button[/B]‏Verified account @[B]PushDicksButton[/B] Feb 22
A right decision, Medvedeva not elegant , technically strong, little performance...

[B]Dick Button[/B]‏Verified account @[B]PushDicksButton[/B] Feb 22
Medvedeva beautiful jumps, security good edging, steady curve in and out...

[B]Dick Button[/B]‏Verified account @[B]PushDicksButton[/B] Feb 22
Zagitova Beautiful jumps, little height, wildly secure....

Elena: I do remember the creampuff but I dont think it was malicious.... I remember the story the most of when she on a plane and something fell on her head from the overhead compartment.

With Irina: Negatives were her unneccesasy "flailing" of her arms.. but thats just commentary to me. It for SURE seemed like Dick had affinity for Irina and liked her a lot. I liked the story that Irina once told Dick "Sure, old men like to pinch my cheeks." Thats what Dick heard.. "old" but the later found out thats not what she said... But she had said "ALL" not "OLD". They seemed to have a genuine respect for each other...

 

[Tinami Amori]

I guess I missed all that hell breaking loose.

North American fans are well aware that Megan and Eric don't have man-woman chemistry. They themselves have stated this exactly, and pointed out that they created a style unique to them that works. I don't think it's possible to disagree that it works, given that they have two world titles (one earned in a field where they were not the favorites), an Olympic bronze, and quite a few national titles.

Also, do you mean that she said 'program to a ballet', rather than 'balletic style program'? When a skater has a balletic style, it doesn't mean they are skating to ballet.

Kaetlyn's 'Swan Lake' is not my favorite program of hers (love her SP this season!), but that's more because the music is over-used, not because of how Kaetlyn interpreted it. I thought her interpretation was bold and fierce, and matire - and therefore quite refreshing in comparison to 'baby ballerina' routines to the same music. She sold the heck out of that program!

The point is TAT is cirtiqued for using "unfavorable yet skating related descriptions" and Dick Button used purely insulting terms such as "ugly", "cream-puff", "head like a cannon ball".

 

[meggonzo]

I thought Sokolova was cupcake, not cream puff.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I thought Sokolova was cupcake, not cream puff.

oops..... that's right! cupcake! (cupcakes were not too well known in russia then in late 90's).... it's the same to me, a fluffy pastry one should not eat.

 

[DreamSkates]

I can see that. It's kind of similar to singers and dancers. Many of today's performers may sing/dance more correctly and have much better technique but some times there is something really special about not being so technically perfect or sounding "correct". On Broadway, a lot of up-and-coming talent really do sound similar. They are impressive sopranos and mezzos but they sort of run together while in the past there were lesser singers in range and technique but boy were they distinct and you certainly did remember them and they really knew how to sell a performance.

Reminds me of Alicia Keys' comments to auditioners on The Voice - the ones she praises most , are those who sing with their soul (can express emotions), not the ones who are technically perfect. Those who sing from their souls (depth of their emotions), you can feel the music - it communicates as genuine. It is the same with skating, those who can express the emotion of the music, not just skate with technical prowess, are the ones I enjoy the most.

 

[DreamSkates]

The past often shows up through rose-colored glasses . . .

People also are often uncomfortable with change, so may see any change as a negative.

 

[manhn]

When exactly was ladies ever original? I want years. I like Kristi too, but daring, original programs ain't one of those reasons.

Rodnina and Aliona share a lot of commonalities and stories. Anyways, weird skater to bring up when one of the things people remember from Rodnina is her ability to perform when her music was turned off.

I do not like the men right now, either, but oh well. It was still the best skated men's event since 2002. Not everyone is going to be Timothy Goebel.

Dance was glorious and I will hang out with the Rat at GPF!!!!

Anyways, seems unfair to compare skaters from this year to all the skaters from 1900 to 2010.

 

[giselle23]

And i thought Kwan's spiral was ugly and lump sided, and her smile with all the teeth showing up to the gums looked idiotic.... but that is us, fans, talking and such terms are suited for private discussions and opinions on fan sites.

"ugly" is such a word, suited for a personal opinion. For a professional sports-caster the proper language is "not a correct position", "wrong form", "any adjective which describes a given element and what's wrong" are perfectly fine. But not "ugly"; it is not an acceptable language for a major network who has exclusive rights to the Olympics hosted in its own country.

When Tarasova said, on a local strictly Russian pod-cast that "Megan and Eric don't have that man-woman chemistry", or "balletic style programme is not a perfect choice for Osmond" all hell broke loose with North American fans .... and yet she did not use any derogatory terms, and where describing issue common to a skating programme discussion.

I am glad Button is no longer a sports-caster, and we see him less, and less, and less.... and eventually not at all.

Dick Button never said a skater was ugly, unlike you.

 

[Vagabond]

When exactly was ladies ever original? I want years.

Click on the link in Post #19. That was when Free Skating was truly free skating.

Or how about 1971?

 

[Spun Silver]

When exactly was ladies ever original? I want years. .

Here's original for you -- young Tenley Albright winning her second of five national titles in 1953.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjYF8ThHkuA
And her last (1956 -- the year she won the Olympics):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGKcapad5hE

 

[bardtoob]

When exactly was ladies ever original?

Dorothy Hamill 1975-76 SP (Hard to believe! . . . But the SP was relatively new and the short spiral steps actually inspired the introduction of the required spiral sequence.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WlmA-fakMk&t=171s

Debbie Thomas 1987-88 SP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX_cSCm115U

Holly Cook 1989-90 SP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9vOwgre7CA

Tonya Harding 1990-91 SP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsPS1bhAj6c

Nicole Bobek 1997-98 SP
https://youtu.be/0j5MWIAog_s?t=202

Michelle Kwan had some interesting programs between 1998 and 2002 that the judges hated.

 

[Vagabond]

How could I forget?

1999

 

[soogar]

Dick Button never said a skater was ugly, unlike you.

Dick's negative commentary was just a more erudite way of his calling a skater ugly. He referred to Nikodinov as a "fridge break" and he was so obsessed over layback positions and flexibility. I always thought it was just a shroud to make comments on young girls' bodies because older skaters don't hit the same positions.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Dick Button never said a skater was ugly, unlike you.

check previous post....
http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jan/07/sports/sp-20905
- said about Irina “that position is ugly”

Dick's negative commentary was just a more erudite way of his calling a skater ugly. He referred to Nikodinov as a "fridge break" and he was so obsessed over layback positions and flexibility. I always thought it was just a shroud to make comments on young girls' bodies because older skaters don't hit the same positions.

That's the thing! many fans/viewers like flexibility in a layback. As a national sports-caster Button should have said just that: not enough flexibility in a layback, or similar. But he said "fridge break", insulting and unproductive.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

He referred to Nikodinov as a "fridge break"

SAY WHAT NOW?????????????????????????

he said she was "liquid gold."

Fridge break? Maybe you meant someone else????

 

[skatesindreams]

Because he grasps figure skating's beautiful potential and history and is worried about its direction going forward.

Technical innovation isn't a bad thing whatsoever... but skating is about so much more than jumps. It has become almost taboo to criticize the road the sport is going down. The system's not a terrible one, but it certainly needs some serious tweaks.

You speak for me, Ryan!

 

[Spun Silver]

check previous post....
http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jan/07/sports/sp-20905
- said about Irina “that position is ugly”


That's the thing! many fans/viewers like flexibility in a layback. As a national sports-caster Button should have said just that: not enough flexibility in a layback, or similar. But he said "fridge break", insulting and unproductive.

Calling a position ugly is NOT the same thing as calling a skater ugly. And although he was pro-American (after all, he worked for US TV, that's all they cared about) you haven't convinced me he was anti-Russian. He criticized US skaters' positions too.

You seem rather obsessed with Uncle Dick. How do you think Russian commentators would come across to Americans if we could understand them? Sotnikova for example (much as I love her skating) couldn't stop laughing through the Olympic events. What on earth was she laughing about? If it had nothing to do with the skaters, she was rude to talk over them, if it did she was rude to laugh at them.

 

[Spun Silver]

SAY WHAT NOW?????????????????????????

he said she was "liquid gold."

Fridge break? Maybe you meant someone else????

Sorry.
http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jan/07/sports/sp-20905

 

[nubka]

I personally don't mind the state of figure skating programs now... but I think it will decline quite a bit with retirements this year.

While CoP programs often seem too calculating, when I look back at 6.0 programs I notice they seem to have nice poise and projection but underneath the programs seem quite empty.

ITA !!

 

[Tinami Amori]

And although he was pro-American (after all, he worked for US TV, that's all they cared about) you haven't convinced me he was anti-Russian. He criticized US skaters' positions too.

He can do to his own American skaters whatever he wants. You're an American and you don't see offense when Button attack others. he devoted a whole speech to "anti-russian" issues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMoRf-RPssQ

How do you think Russian commentators would come across to Americans if we could understand them? Sotnikova for example (much as I love her skating) couldn't stop laughing through the Olympic events.

But Russian is a not an official international language. English is. Plus American networks hag all the rights to int'l broadcasts, while Russian TV is local, and you would not see it if we, Russian speakers, did not provide you with youtube links...

Sotnikova's laughter is inconvenient, but not insulting... [/QUOTE]

 

[Vagabond]

But Russian is a not an official international language.

Of course it is: http://www.un.org/en/sections/about-un/official-languages/

 

[Spun Silver]

He can do to his own American skaters whatever he wants. You're an American and you don't see offense when Button attack others. he devoted a whole speech to "anti-russian" issues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMoRf-RPssQ



But Russian is a not an official international language. English is. Plus American networks hag all the rights to int'l broadcasts, while Russian TV is local, and you would not see it if we, Russian speakers, did not provide you with youtube links...

Sotnikova's laughter is inconvenient, but not insulting...

To paraphrase: you're a Russian and you don't see offense when Sotnikova (ridicules? ignores? attacks? others. (You didn't say) It wasn't just the American,skaters I was offended for.

I will listen to Uncle Dick's speech later.