Ashley Wagner Cheer Thread #3: The Subject of Tonight's Lecture...

Do you really think they had no intention of sending her if she was on the podium? Not so sure about that. Karen hasn’t had a good season either.
 
I think USFSA would have sent Ashley this year if she had finished on the podium. She didn't have a great season and dropped out of her 2nd Grand Prix event, but if she got it together at Nationals, skated well, and finished on the podium, I think she would have been a lock for the team.

Ashley was sent over Nagasu amid a lot of controversy in 2014. Nagasu almost made the Olympic podium in 2010 and had the Olympic experience under her belt. In 2014, Ashley didn't skate well at Nationals either and finished off the podium, but she got the Olympic berth based on her BOW. Back then, it was said that Ashley could have finished as low as 10th and they would have put her on the team no matter what.

In 2018, BOW, especially in the most recent months before Nationals wasn't quite there. Nagasu and Chen, especially Nagasu was a question mark all season, and she had to prove herself at Nationals to earn a spot. A 2nd place/Silver Medal plus 2 good 3Axel attempts gave Nagasu the edge over Ashley who singled a 3 jump and 2 footed jumps in her LP. Karen managed to have 2 decent skates, was 2017 National Champion, and finished 4th in 2017 Worlds, giving the US 3 spots for the Olympics.

Giving Ashley a second Olympic berth after another 4th place finish, plus a weaker BOW would have made USFSA and Ashley look really bad. Imagine the bad press Ashley would have received with a 2nd Olympic team even though her Nationals performance wasn't up to her usual results for the second time. US Nationals is watched around the world and during the Olympics, the international fan base would have said nasty things about Ashley. Judges might have been harsh on Ashley at the Olympics AND after.

Leaving Ashley off the team actually gave her A LOT of sympathy and fuel to keep her in the limelight. The Today Show even gave her an exclusive interview after not making the team. Mirai didn't get an exclusive interview on TV in 2014 like Ashley did.

I think Ashley made the right move in voicing her opinion. It keeps her in the limelight and gains the attention of a lot of the media. She has enough likeability and marketability despite being left off the 2018 Olympic team. Ashley's team knows this and she has made the most of the situation. She is on her way to more success in life.

Yay for Ashley who knew how to make lemonade when life gave her lemons!

aml78 said:
Do you really think they had no intention of sending her if she was on the podium? Not so sure about that. Karen hasn’t had a good season either.
Click to expand...
 
I haven't had a chance to look at the specific protocols of Ashley's PCS/GOEs v. Karen's PCS/GOEs, but I read that it was the currently certified international judges at Nationals that marked Ashley the harshest. Joe Inman was a former certified international judge before he aged out but apparently he was the harshest on Karen in PCS. My question is whether there was an actual concerted effort to mark Ashley lower on PCS than she received internationally or if it was a mixed bag of judges (some higher and some lower) and the numbers just ended up the way they did due to chance. I do think there was some discrepancy between the judges and the tech panel (same with Vincent) that may have been correct objectively, but is still rare to see in this sport.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
I haven't had a chance to look at the specific protocols of Ashley's PCS/GOEs v. Karen's PCS/GOEs, but I read that it was the currently certified international judges at Nationals that marked Ashley the harshest. Joe Inman was a former certified international judge before he aged out but apparently he was the harshest on Karen in PCS. My question is whether there was an actual concerted effort to mark Ashley lower on PCS than she received internationally or if it was a mixed bag of judges (some higher and some lower) and the numbers just ended up the way they did due to chance. I do think there was some discrepancy between the judges and the tech panel (same with Vincent) that may have been correct objectively, but is still rare to see in this sport.
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In the SP Joe Inman and Kathleen McBride gave her the lowest PCS. In the LP Kevin Rosenstein and Todd Bromley gave her the lowest PCS. I believe only Bromley is the only certified international judge (Inman also, formerly).

What Ashley and others are questioning is a less than 1 point difference in factored PCS. Although, Ashley skated worse at Skate America (under rotated the 3Lo and was overall slower).

Ashley's SP at Skate America
Skating Skills 8.75 8.50 8.00 8.75 8.25 7.50 8.00 8.00 7.75 8.18
Transitions 8.50 8.25 8.00 8.75 8.25 7.50 8.00 8.50 7.50 8.14
Performance 9.00 9.25 8.25 9.00 8.50 7.75 8.50 9.00 8.00 8.61
Composition 8.75 8.75 8.50 9.00 8.50 8.00 8.25 8.75 8.00 8.50
Interpretation of the Music 8.75 9.00 8.25 9.25 8.75 8.25 8.50 9.00 8.50 8.68

Judges Total Program Component Score (factored) 33.68

Ashley's SP at Nationals
Skating skills 7.75 8.25 8.25 8.00 8.25 8.50 9.00 8.00 8.00 8.18
Transitions 7.00 7.75 8.00 6.50 8.00 8.50 8.50 7.75 7.50 7.79
Performance 8.25 8.50 8.25 8.00 8.75 9.00 9.25 8.00 8.00 8.39
Composition 8.00 8.50 8.00 7.50 8.25 9.00 8.75 8.25 8.00 8.25
Interpretation of the Music 8.50 8.50 8.50 7.75 8.50 9.00 9.00 8.50 8.50 8.57

Judges Total Program Component Score (factored) 32.94
 
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BittyBug said:
Yes, but usually PCS is inflated at Nationals so I can see why she would have expected it to be higher than SA, not lower.
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Nothing is guaranteed, but I understand why she would think that. It's true that Karen got a PCS boost and Ashley did not. Karen went from 30.43 at Skate Canada and 30.93 at Skate America to 33.80 at US Nationals.
 
NinjaTurtles said:
Nothing is guaranteed, but I understand why she would think that. It's true that Karen got a PCS boost and Ashley did not. Karen went from 30.43 at Skate Canada and 30.93 at Skate America to 33.80 at US Nationals.
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So over six judges isn’t that a .5 increase per judge or 1/2 % increase? I know three points seem like a lot, and it is a lot, but with the way PCS is scored I can see it happening. I defy anyone to find me a judge who can consistently judge within .75 of point in PCS. There are what, 40 possible scores for each component? That is beyond crazy.
 
@mag putting aside whether the scores were justified, I think the issue is expectation. Nationals scores typically inflate PCS, especially for a 3-time national champion, and in this case it seems like everyone else got a boost but not Ashley. That may have been entirely valid based on the way she skated in San Jose, but I can see why it could also be interpreted as the judges being harsh in a way that was inconsistent with her scoring history.

And Ashley only missed the podium by less than 3 points, so in the end PCS did matter. (TES of course mattered an awful lot, too, and I'm not saying that Ashley was necessarily robbed, but she certainly wasn't given any favors.)
 
I believe Ashley's question was that everyone in the top four got customary Nationals PCS inflation but her. If the judges wanted to be realistic about their PCS, they should at least keep everyone's PCS in check, not just hers. It made her comparatively weaker (like they were judging National Karen and Bradie and Mirai against international Ashley).

Jeremy was also subjected to this in 2011 and that's basically how he got edged out of the World Team.
 
I'm so sorry for Ashley. :( It's so heartbreaking to lose a beloved pet especially that way.
 
She confirmed on her insta story she’s packing for Korea. Has anyone heard what she might be doing there?
 
aml78 said:
She confirmed on her insta story she’s packing for Korea. Has anyone heard what she might be doing there?
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I think there was an article a few days ago saying that she was going to be involved in some media activities in Korea.

Also, isn’t she the first alternate? Aren’t first alternates supposed to be present at the Games anyway, just in case?
 
She's been confirming the past couple days on instagram stories that she is in fact going to the Korea Olympics for something media-related, and will be filming some segments there. But beyond that she says she still has to be tight-lipped about it.

Girl has had a tough month. I hope she at least enjoys the Olympics in this capacity
 
AdWeek's Ad of the day today features Ashley. It's her Toyota ad which hasn't previously been seen, and will be airing over the Olympics.

It's a stunning ad, it talks about being on thin ice, and being on the "edge of your blade". It's really fitting in how she narrowly missed the Olympic team, and has themes around falling down / feeling under the ice but getting back up again.

http://www.adweek.com/brand-marketi...eam-but-did-make-this-breathtaking-toyota-ad/

I'm really happy to see that the people who believe in her are standing by her through this. Check it out.
 
That ad is absolutely stunning. Ashley is a true actress. I think while she’s had an incredible career as an athlete and competitor, she was born to be in front of cameras telling a story. It comes so naturally to her.
 
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