2025 Cup of China Rhythm Dance PBP - Rhythm is a Danger

[Marta24]

Low 9s in PCS. I was too generous last week when I thought Chock & Bates would be slotted back to mid-9s PCS.

I was a bit surprised that their PCS weren't closer or above 38, but the skate was very shaky today.

 

[Bunny Hop]

Stopped commenting for a bit to have dinner (yes, I know, I'm the only person here to like this time zone).

Lopareva/Brissaud - I like that they always do something a little different (well, as much as this theme allows). Did take me back to I'm Blue being played relentlessly on the weekend morning Video Hits show on TV. And as much as I hate to say it, I'm giving definite side-eye to their scores. Agree they had less of a spark than usual.

I would like to start with I know part of the problem here is that I don't care much for Lenny Kravitz music, but these cuts are terrible. Like it's giving me flashbacks to last seasons RD in a bad way.

This. Not a fan of the music or how many cuts there are. Did not grab me at all. Technically I don't think it was all that either. A couple of flashy moves but that was it.

I'd have had the scores for the top three a lot closer together.

 

[Tinycities]

Love some of these teams but god I hate this rd theme. It’s a shame. Love 90s music too. The requirements have butchered this being a good RD season.

 

[Bunny Hop]

Did they change the tempo on some of the songs? They just didn't sound right.

There was a lot of that going on across a number of teams.

Was coming back to comment on Chock/Bates twizzles but I see the point has already been made by others.

I was giving it a couple of comps before casting judgement but now definitely agreeing the 90s theme seems to be a bit of a dud.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I missed the fall of s/d. What had happened..

 

[skatingguy]

Rhythm Dance Protocols

 

[skatingguy]

I missed the fall of s/d. What had happened..

In their pattern type step sequence they were in the far right corner from the judges. Tim with his back to the judges, and Olivia does a knee slide as he holds on to her hands, and she loses her balance and ends up on both knees.

 

[Skaterbob]

I missed the fall of s/d. What had happened..

Slipped on her knee on a slide turn I guess. It was very obvious fall didn't know what the element was supposed to look like.

 

[tony]

Bla bla I'm so mean to C/B, I must hate them...I've heard it all.

But those twizzles got mostly +4. For an element that is DONE IN PLACE. It is not explainable. By anybody. Enough is enough. Lift exit comes out visibly clunky and still some +4. This is not reality-based scoring at all.

 

[Skaterbob]

I don't know what to say about Chock and Bates' program. Like I was all ready to watch it and then it was over. Ho Hum. Okay, not great. Not bad. They have work to do which I am sure they know.

 

[skatingguy]

Xiao/He were announced by IAM as having joined their school in July - surprising the CFSA trusted sending another team there after the Liu issues.

All 3 Chinese teams seem to be at least connected to IAM as Ren/Xing have choreography from Kaitlin Hawayek (RD), and Pascal Denis (FD), and Romain Haguenauer was in the kiss & cry with them.

 

[Bunny Hop]

But those twizzles got mostly +4. For an element that is DONE IN PLACE. It is not explainable. By anybody. Enough is enough. Lift exit comes out visibly clunky and still some +4. This is not reality-based scoring at all.

The marks for the twizzles were particularly egregious.

I'm reluctantly prepared to accept the placement of the top 3 (wanted Lopareva/Brissaud higher), given no team was particularly stand out here, but the scores should be much tighter between them.

 

[thvu]

I was a bit surprised that their PCS weren't closer or above 38, but the skate was very shaky today.

But the truth is, it should have been in the 8s today. Chock & Bates have had so many shaky skates the last few seasons and got benefit of the doubt PCS from the judges, even PCS defying the scoring rules. It took FB&C coming back to end that. Even with a Criterion Referenced scoring system, it's still all relative.

 

[tony]

But the truth is, it should have been in the 8s today. Chock & Bates have had so many shaky skates the last few seasons and got benefit of the doubt PCS from the judges, even PCS defying the scoring rules. It took FB&C coming back to end that. Even with a Criterion Referenced scoring system, it's still all relative.

Yeah, for all the people proclaiming "BUT Guignard and Fabbri's skills did drop" based on just GP France, I don't know how one can watch Chock and Bates crawl around the ice (there's no other word), show relatively shallow edges when it matters, stumble a few times along the way, and people make any kind of opposite argument in C/B's favor. Because whether or not this is the level they will be at all season, the PCS are also way too outrageous today. Thankfully the women's short is starting because I'd probably write a dissertation otherwise.

 

[victorskid]

I have a local volunteer commitment today and tomorrow that prevented me from choosing to get up in the middle of the night to watch this. I am watching a bit while getting organized for a very early start to the day but am choosing to skip all the comments here after reading just a few I will have to catch up on results & videos later.

 

[Private Citizen]

Chock and Bates's rhythm dance has all the same problems as the others - too many music cuts, artificial beats added to get the music to an acceptable tempo, etc. I liked the first minute, but then it went nowhere.

I didn't think the twizzles or the lift were as bad as people are making them out to be. They do slow up into the twizzles, but have better unison and higher difficulty. It's a trade-off. Should it get +4 GOE in addition to L4? Probably not, but all ice dance scoring is wacky and judges across disciplines have never been able to separate GOE from difficulty.

The step sequence, though, was really rough. They looked exhausted at the end of the problem. Is this OGM material? I'm not convinced. But the level of bashing they get is out of proportion. They skate close together, have good unison, and move naturally together.

The PCS is not where they want to it be, clearly, but 1) they didn't skate all that well, and 2) there's no one else pushing the scores up in this field.

Poor Lopareva and Brissaud. I'm sorry the fix is in for them. At least it's looking like they're in an OK position to make the French Olympic team, which is not something I was taking for granted given their level of dumpage.

 

[tony]

I didn't think the twizzles or the lift were as bad as people are making them out to be. They do slow up into the twizzles, but have better unison and higher difficulty. It's a trade-off. Should it get +4 GOE in addition to L4? Probably not, but all ice dance scoring is wacky and judges across disciplines have never been able to separate GOE from difficulty.

There's a scoring rubric as we all know. In order to get above a +3, there cannot be any negative features in an element. Regardless of how one feels about the difficulty within, there is zero ice coverage. Zero. By far the smallest coverage of any team in this event as I said, and you have low-ranked Chinese teams here as it is.

One of the negative criteria:
8. Lacking or reducing speed of rotation and/or speed across the ice = 1 – 2 negative features criteria.

For the lift with the OBVIOUS rough exit:
3. Poor entry / Poor exit (per each) = 1 negative features criteria.

For both instances, how can a +4 be achieved?

I've said it over and over and over regarding the twizzles. The criteria is there. If people (including judges) want to selectively ignore it, it's not my problem (or anyone else's) when the comes up.

 

[honey]

One thing I will say that the Chock and Bates RD has going for it than so many others do not is that it is staying away from the cheesy, bubblegum pop era. It has potential to have a cool factor. And at least she doesn’t look like she got her costume at Spirit Halloween at the mall.

But very slow and sloppy today. Sloppy in a way I’m surprised at for the start of at Olympic season.

 

[Lanie]

Haven't watched yet (Mini wants to watch with me when he gets home from school) but so bummed to see L/B dumped like that. I really enjoy them. Also bummed Olivia had a fall! ZingKol doing well makes me happy. Madi and Evan always have a rough first outing.

I thought I'd like this 90s RD but it's so far just, as 90s kid,

 

[Wyliefan]

That was one heck of an event. Poor Caroline and Michael.

 

[Private Citizen]

There's a scoring rubric as we all know. In order to get above a +3, there cannot be any negative features in an element. Regardless of how one feels about the difficulty within, there is zero ice coverage. Zero.

You're hyperbolic with this team (but not with others). There was not "zero" ice coverage. You can argue less than others (although I'd like to see measurements, which are possible iwth AI), but it was not zero.

One of the negative criteria:
8. Lacking or reducing speed of rotation and/or speed across the ice = 1 – 2 negative features criteria.

Subjective, and I believe was not met here.

For the lift with the OBVIOUS rough exit:
3. Poor entry / Poor exit (per each) = 1 negative features criteria.

Also subjective and not met. I had to watch three times before I saw what I think you're referring to?

For both instances, how can a +4 be achieved?

I wouldn't have given +4, but I do not agree these that these elements had "negative features." You can argue it, sure, but I'm sure the judges who gave the +4s can argue otherwise. Which is part of the problem with the ice dance code.

I've said it over and over and over regarding the twizzles. The criteria is there. If people (including judges) want to selectively ignore it, it's not my problem (or anyone else's) when the comes up.

These criteria are squishy and subjective at best. It's different than giving high PCS with falls or other areas of the Code that are more "open and shut."

I'm long past the point where I think ice dance is highly political, about as legitimate as Landover World Pros, and should be banned from the Olympics. COP provides more precision but no more accuracy.

I have no desire to strong defend Chock and Bates, but I don't think their scoring is any more inflated than anyone else's.

 

[thvu]

I have no desire to strong defend Chock and Bates, but I don't think their scoring is any more inflated than anyone else's.

You watched their RD today and you really believe this?

 

[Private Citizen]

You watched their RD today and you really believe this?

Yes. It wasn't a great program, but it was better than anything I saw in Angers last weekend.

I also saw Chock and Bates live at the GPF last year and thought they were clearly the best of the six teams there even if they weren't lighting the world on fire.

They've become FSU's favorite team to bash after Fear & Gibson (who I also like) went on a PR campaign .

 

[tony]

You're hyperbolic with this team (but not with others). There was not "zero" ice coverage. You can argue less than others (although I'd like to see measurements, which are possible iwth AI), but it was not zero.

What other teams? I always tell people to pull out the rulebook so we can discuss but instead we have people like you claiming a team like FB/C is getting GOE (and maybe PCS?) too high but no explanation why- just feelings I guess. Fear and Gibson of all people have more ice coverage and even more difficulty nuance in their twizzles

Also subjective and not met. I had to watch three times before I saw what I think you're referring to?

She was set down off balance.

As far as PCS, I saw posts that started off "real talk" and had bullet points of supposed opinions over Guignard and Fabbri absolutely having PCS that has regressed down from mid 9s to low 8s and again we saw Chock and Bates clunk around the ice yet the explanation seems to be 'they always start the season slow, no one else was at a high level here so there was no reason to pull them down" or "yeah but later in the season they will be better so it's okay".

The skate was rough yet they got handed up to 9.75 (including 3x 9.50 for skating skills). Of course the PCS are a joke.

 

[Debbie S]

Low 9s in PCS. I was too generous last week when I thought Chock & Bates would be slotted back to mid-9s PCS.

Their PCS are in the same range.- actually a little higher - than the PCS they've gotten for their (clean) RDs on the GP the past couple of seasons. I haven't seen the performance yet but it sounds like a typical season debut and i'm sure they know what they need to improve.

The levels are more concerning, but I also chalk that up to a season debut.

 

[BittyBug]

Theory - is the 120bpm requirement part of what's making all these teams look soooooo slow across the ice?

Exactly this. All the music sounds off.

 

[marbri]

I don't understand some of the music choices this year if Lenny Kravitz is considered an upbeat dance party or whatever the hell other teams who have had to change their music were told. Not that I don't appreciate a bit of Lenny Kravitz and am thankful for the inclusion because I do and I am! Unfortunately for C/B I found myself thinking that V/M would really make this RD pop in a way that they can't, which isn't a good thing and probably not what they were aiming for.

Final thought, it's good to be an American team in ice dance these days. Reminds me of the days it was good to be a Russian team in ice dance.

 

[PRlady]

Well, watching after the fact, I’m really sad for Smart, GrePar and Lop/Bri. Especially the latter, she in particular seems lifeless relative to other skates.

As a Z/K fan I’m happy with their scores. One person’s Glee is another’s enthusiasm and brio. As for C/B, I’ve learned to never judge their early-season performance as indicative of anything.

 

[4rkidz]

Just catching up on the dance, I think this must be the weakest field so far based on the rhythm dance in comparison to last week. I am quite shocked at how slow Chock and Bates were, I actually thought at one point they were stopping? Did they just learn it or are one of them injured? I guess it is early in the season. I was pleasantly surprised though by the leading American team.

 

[4rkidz]

Well, watching after the fact, I’m really sad for Smart, GrePar and Lop/Bri. Especially the latter, she in particular seems lifeless relative to other skates.

As a Z/K fan I’m happy with their scores. One person’s Glee is another’s enthusiasm and brio. As for C/B, I’ve learned to never judge their early-season performance as indicative of anything.

Yes now I’m recalling that with C/B too, not to judge too quickly based on how I felt last year too.