2025 Cup of China Free Dance PBP - Grabbing The Bull By The Scores

[MacMadame]

She does come to a stop on those twizzles in that she's not moving outward AT ALL!

2nd set, yes.

Do you literally think I meant she stopped rotating and stood at center ice? Come on.

They didn't do the twizzles at center ice so...

 

[tony]

2nd set, yes.

First set the last rotation is done in place. Look how far over Evan moves to get back closer to her because he's actually still moving across the ice. It's like a wind-up doll that is just about out of string.

This is the same thing for ever and ever with her, and you are acknowledging it for the first time today [on the 2nd twizzles]?

People are going to see what they want to see, but "iN pErSoN" it's super apparent that it doesn't move.

 

[MacMadame]

This is the same thing for ever and ever with her, and you are acknowledging it for the first time today [on the 2nd twizzles]?

I rarely comment on their twizzles. In fact, this may be the very first I have as there are plenty of other people to do it for me. That doesn't mean I haven't "acknowledged" that they suck in oh so many ways.

 

[marbri]

I don't mind the concept of the bull/matador doing a flamenco to Paint it Black. I like Evan's bull costume.
I just think this will change a lot before the Olympics because to me it just seems like she got so caught up in her design career with her costume that it hinders everything they are trying to do with the program at this point and it isn't working.

But this is the team that started out one season with some romantic schlock and by Worlds she slapped on a colourful costume and told us she was fire and he was wind so I expect similar to happen this season. I just would have expected them to come out stronger this week because they are close friends with FB/C and have to know what they have been doing to get ready for this season. But she was defeated by her skirt and we were robbed of the bull not tossing her into the air with those horns in a way that.

C/B aside my other thoughts were that:
1. I don't think CarPoms are securely US #2 the way some people have thought based on the scoring Z/K got.
2. Dune 2 was pleasant enough.
3. And does Karine Arribert employ dancing and acting coaches at her training camp? Because what really struck me, aside from her displeasure in the K&C, is how stiff and miserable Loicia always looks. She makes Zach Lagha look like an excited puppy. For all the whining some people do about IAM politics I look at a team like D/leM and think they could really benefit from regular dance and acting classes to take them to the next level because while there are technical aspects of their skating to admire it just falls flat because it just comes across as them doing the choreography and not feeling the choreography. And when there are sooooo many teams that are on par with each other on the TES you really need something else to make you stand out and get that love from the judges .

 

[cholla]

You said they came to a complete stop in the first two sets of twizzles. Slowing down is not a "complete stop." You also said you didn't care what we think about your opinion on their twizzles.

You bitch about how other people don't apply the written criteria when complaining about performances, but then you say things about this couple that just aren't true. If you had said that their twizzles sucked because they slowed down too much on the first set and stopped forward rotation on the second, that would have been true and educational.

The one being pedantic here is not Tony

 

[MacMadame]

The one being pedantic here is not Tony

Oh, we are both being pedantic.

 

[cholla]

3. And does Karine Arribert employ dancing and acting coaches at her training camp?

Not on a regular basis and she should but it's a matter of money she/her club don't have.

Because what really struck me, aside from her displeasure in the K&C, is how stiff and miserable Loicia always looks.

She looked miserable today because they made mistakes but she doesn't always look this way to me. She is a not an effusive girl but compared to her younger years she is almost exuberant now She's been totally inexpressive for years, she is "warmer" now but she'll never be an extrovert, it's not in her nature. Off ice she talks as much as Théo who is quite chattery. Before she was the perfect sound of silence. What surprises me with their FD this season is that they chose it according to their personal tastes and interests in life, and still they don't seem into it.

And when there are sooooo many teams that are on par with each other on the TES you really need something else to make you stand out and get that love from the judges .

That. They are stagnating in what I'd call the "soft belly" of ranking (literal translation of "ventre mou"). But Villard de Lans dancers have never been good at getting love from the judges despite Arribert does her best to take their remarks into account.

 

[Debbie S]

Looking at the protocols, I would say C/B lost about 5 points on the TES between the L2 twizzles, L2 lift, and choreo jumps. Their PCS are pretty much exactly where they have been in GP events the past 2 seasons.

I'm sure they know what they need to work on and I'm sure the program will be revised and improved as the season goes on. They have never been a team to dig in their heels and not take feedback.

Agree that Madi needs a completely different dress.

 

[Jammers]

I know it's not C/B's style to do Challengers but in this Olympic year they should have done one just to get a early start and know what they need to work on for the rest of the season. Not only that with no 4CC to compete in this season that just means one less competition for them to get things right before the Olympics.

 

[Coco]

Any update on Michael's health?

 

[PRlady]

Well, watching on replay, I thought C/B were their usual early-season sloppy (remember when they lost the FD to Haw/Bak?) But the concept is good for them, they’re best at dramatic character-play - and it is a strength vs Cizeron who couldn’t play a character other than himself. Skirt does need to be shortened and the bull needs more bullishness, somehow.

Z/K, wow, she is going through the Christina C transformation process and he is just marvelous, my favorite male dancer. I’m delighted for them. And sorry for the cynicism but Igor knows how to protect them on the politiks end which unfortunately is necessary.

Smart/Dieck will be just fine when they skate a decent RD, Lop-Bri are still good when not at their best and I really wish Ren/Xing were going to Milan, in addition to Liu’s sins, R/X are better.

 

[cholla]

But the concept is good for them, they’re best at dramatic character-play - and it is a strength vs Cizeron who couldn’t play a character other than himself.

But face it, what character could be worth playing besides his very important and talented self?

Skirt does need to be shortened and the bull needs more bullishness, somehow.

Much more. I want her to slaughter him, I want blood (although I absolutely loath corrida). She can do it. She must or this FD will keep on looking a bit too classical and bland. I want the heavy thingies on her shoulders to go too. She looks crushed under their weight even if she is not. The rest of the outfit is okay to me, even the skirt. I just hope none of them will ever trip over it.

 

[Karen-W]

Much more. I want her to slaughter him, I want blood (although I absolutely loath corrida). She can do it. She must or this FD will keep on looking a bit too classical and bland. I want the heavy thingies on her shoulders to go too. She looks crushed under their weight even if she is not. The rest of the outfit is okay to me, even the skirt. I just hope none of them will ever trip over it.

See, now, a costume change where she rips some panels from his shirt to reveal red blood at the end would be perfect! I love this and all of us need to find a way to get them on board with this idea!

 

[TanithandBenFan]

Z/K were glorious. I love every single moment of that FD.

 

[kwanette]

Z/K were glorious. I love every single moment of that FD.

As do I!!

 

[my little pony]

it is interesting to me that the former front runner is so covered up I dont know where her legs are and the new front runner literally has no pants.

 

[clairecloutier]

Just so many different ideas and motifs in the C/B free dance package and it doesn’t add up to anything right now, imo. I’m a bit . The actual skating was pretty subpar compared to their usual too. This is going to need a lot of work, and fast. I am kinda surprised that this is what they wanted for their big Olympic moment, but hopefully the vision comes together as the season goes on.

I really liked Zingas/Kolesnik’s FD at Kinoshita, and enjoyed it even more here. A brilliant choice for them by Benoit. It gives Z/K a maturity and gravitas they’ve lacked to this point, while still taking great advantage of their natural dynamism and charisma. And it’s the kind of package the judges are going to like a lot. Also, they’re just skating really well!

Sad to see Caroline/Michael WD, but I think it was the right decision, if his physical condition was going to interfere with their performance level. Better to WD than skate poorly again and have that negative impression out there. They have time to regroup from this (assuming Michael’s injury isn’t serious ), but they need to be strategic.

I like Evgenia/Geoffrey’s Bjork but agree it needs more development and expression. Geoffrey does kind of stand out in it for some reason—some nice moments in his partnering. Maybe Evgenia just needs to find her entry point, if you will, into this music and mood.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Maybe Evgenia just needs to find her entry point, if you will, into this music and mood.

The pretty dress needs to go. It’s like she’s trying to skate Rachmaninov v2.

 

[Lanie]

Madi and Evan must have a strong idea for the FD but it's not coming across at all. I was surprised they were so rough, moreso than usual for their season debut. I think they'll get it together, they always do. I think the concept could be great but the skirt even in photos and clips made me super nervous.

I'm really enjoying Z/K. Okay, time to watch more, I followed PBP half-awake because I have a cold and couldn't sleep but wasn't watching.

 

[peibeck]

Z/K's diagonal step sequence was my favorite part of all these dances, and overall I liked their program except for the final movement. But just remember all you loving it, it is a B E N O I T program the next time you are grousing about him.

I think there's potential in C/B's program, and they seemingly change their programs more than any other teams during the season. I actually don't mind the top as much as I did just from the photos from practice, but the skirt is too, too heavy, like a thin satin back crepe, and the way it moves is distracting.

Lopareva and my hot snack, Geoff, look fine and skated well, but the music is a big no for me.

"Dune 2" is so much like "Dune 1," i.e. all about the highlight moves you don't notice there's little in between... which might work if they hadn't just done "Dune 1" last season and we remember it more fondly.

A thousand lashes to IAM for mixing the sublime "Adagio for Steings" (Matt Savoie once used it brilliantly for a SP) and blending it into the dreadful vocals that are most of Lim/Quan's FD.

Loicia and Theo's program was just head scratching. I saw no mummies, happy or sad... at least I don't think I did, because honestly I got zero story, emotion, or even a concept from that dance. It looks like random moves spliced together; honestly, G/F robot program bad. Sigh.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

Z/K's diagonal step sequence was my favorite part of all these dances, and overall I liked their program except for the final movement. But just remember all you loving it, it is a B E N O I T program the next time you are grousing about him.

I think there's potential in C/B's program, and they seemingly change their programs more than any other teams during the season. I actually don't mind the top as much as I did just from the photos from practice, but the skirt is too, too heavy, like a thin satin back crepe, and the way it moves is distracting.

Lopareva and my hot snack, Geoff, look fine and skated well, but the music is a big no for me.

"Dune 2" is so much like "Dune 1," i.e. all about the highlight moves you don't notice there's little in between... which might work if they hadn't just done "Dune 1" last season and we remember it more fondly.

A thousand lashes to IAM for mixing the sublime "Adagio for Steings" (Matt Savoie once used it brilliantly for a SP) and blending it into the dreadful vocals that are most of Lim/Quan's FD.

Loicia and Theo's program was just head scratching. I saw no mummies, happy or sad... at least I don't think I did, because honestly I got zero story, emotion, or even a concept from that dance. It looks like random moves spliced together; honestly, G/F robot program bad. Sigh.

I enjoy most of Benoit’s choreo except Adam laying on the ice last year lol. I’d like to see him do more dance choreo. I think he brings unique movement. Z/K look their best with his influence.

 

[peibeck]

I enjoy most of Benoit’s choreo except Adam laying on the ice last year lol. I’d like to see him do more dance choreo. I think he brings unique movement. Z/K look their best with his influence.

Doesn't Adam start his FS lying on the ice again this year?

 

[TanithandBenFan]

Doesn't Adam start his FS lying on the ice again this year?

No he’s creeping along the boards lol.

 

[jenny12]

Z/K were glorious. I love every single moment of that FD.

Agreed. I totally loved that and Kolesnik is a dream

 

[jennysk8oboe]

Scissors!!! Do they have any in China? I would use them on Madi’s skirt, and Vadim’s hair—pronto! It was worse than Shaidorov’s.

 

[kwanette]

Scissors!!! Do they have any in China? I would use them on Madi’s skirt, and Vadim’s hair—pronto! It was worse than Shaidorov’s

Scissors!!! Do they have any in China? I would use them on Madi’s skirt, and Vadim’s hair—pronto! It was worse than Shaidorov’s.

No one's hair is worse than Shaidorov's..

 

[Sally1214]

I thought, in my rush to catch up before the Jays game tonight, I would just watch a few of the free dance performances but got caught up in it and watched the whole thing.

Some thoughts:

Wang/Liu - Wonderful lifts with innovative transitions in and out of them. Good ice coverage (as much as you can tell from a screen). Easily the best of the Chinese teams for me.

Smart/Dieck - I loved parts of it ... like the beginning (superb) and that lift where she curls up his back and over his shoulders (outstanding). Didn't like the part with her drooped over his back - very unattractive positions for her (for anyone viewing from the back). I think the program is good but not nearly as mesmerizing as Dune 1.

Lim/Quan - Poor Chris ... if he'd just dropped the word "People's" from the country's name, he would have been just fine. I enjoyed this program way more than I expected I was going to. And, I didn't even mind the vocals at all.

Lopareva/Brissaud - They are favorites of mine and I thought they did a really good job. Agree that he was more into the program at times; but, overall, it was a great effort by both of them. Her dress was beautiful. I know some of you didn't think it went with the program but, as a couple, they looked well-dressed. She really is quite stunning.

Chock/Bates - In 100% agreement that the skirt has to go. It's just wrong on so many levels. It was a rough skate for them and the program didn't do a thing for me .... YET. As we all are quite aware, they can improve a LOT as the season goes on ... but, my gosh, they are going to HAVE to! It's not like the rest of the field is not going to be improving as well.

As usual, reading through the comments at FSU was entertaining ... lots of snark and "disagreements" among members. Ice dance will do that to ya!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

No one's hair is worse than Shaidorov

Vlad….

 

[PRlady]

Scissors!!! Do they have any in China? I would use them on Madi’s skirt, and Vadim’s hair—pronto! It was worse than Shaidorov’s.

You leave Vadym’s hair alone! It’s sexy and it suits him.

Shaidorov’s hair looks like a toadstool.

 

[Tinycities]

I’m listening to the NBC recap and I find it very surprising how negative gabi was about Zingas/kolesnik, called them simple and unoriginal multiple times. Yet was over the top positive about chock/bates. Said how difficult their free dance is, and how great they’re doing it already.