2023-24 US Pairs Discussion - Chan you count Howe many teams we have?

[Sylvia]

March 3rd video about Chan/Howe’s Recovery day : https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4Dr9LNLMA2/

 

[Sylvia]

Kam/O'Shea’s pre-Worlds prep. highlights video, posted by Ellie: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4b3DqcID2Y/

 

[Sylvia]

Plazas/Fernandez’s latest practice clips before their Worlds debut:

3twist: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4Whk_0rsum/
Choreo section in SP: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4ZGatrrbGv/
Forward inside edge death spiral: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4eP82sLFBh/

 

[happycamper2554]

Ashley Fletcher/ Aaron Felberbaum (Jr Pairs) Split. He is on IPS as of today

Aaron Felberbaum - Ice Partner Search

Male from Park Ridge, IL, United States: My short term goals are to compete internationally at the junior level this season for the US. My long term goals are to compete in senior at the highest level.

www.icepartnersearch.com

Michael Chapa is also listed as of 03/14/24

Michael Chapa - Ice Partner Search

Male from Lake Forest, Illinios, United States: My short term goals are to compete at US Nationals this season, compete at international competitions and be on Team USA. To continue developing stronger pairs skills like triple twist and triple throws element. My long term goal is to make the...

www.icepartnersearch.com

 

[Sylvia]

Ashley Fletcher turns 19 in May so their split is not that surprising.

I was informed that Gracie & Sam will compete at the Junior level:

New partnership of Gracie Gottschalk and Sam Herbert training in Michigan with Jim Peterson & Amanda Evora.

Jim Peterson on Instagram: "Congratulations to Gracie Gottschalk and Sam Herbert on their new partnership! Welcome to the Arctic family 🇺🇸💪🏼 (a couple nice throws from their tryout.)"

jpcoach01 on March 1, 2024: "Congratulations to Gracie Gottschalk and Sam Herbert on their new partnership! Welcome to the Arctic family 🇺🇸💪🏼 (a couple ni..."

www.instagram.com

Earlier update (before Aaron Felberbaum and Jared McPike appeared on IPS):

U.S. pair skaters listed on IPS as of today (March 9) who competed Novice or higher this season:
-Michael Chapa, 21 (Novice Pairs silver medalist at 2024 Nationals; based in Chicago area)
-Nathan Rensing, 26 (based in Irvine, CA)
-Taisiya Shapovalova, 13 (7th in Novice at the U.S. Pairs Final last November; based in Irvine, CA)
-Tallulah Tanner, 14 in June (8th in Novice at the U.S. Pairs Final)

Competed at 2023 Nationals in Junior:
William Church, 20
Lilianna Murray, 18

 

[Karen-W]

Ashley Fletcher/ Aaron Felberbaum (Jr Pairs) Split. He is on IPS as of today

Aaron Felberbaum - Ice Partner Search

Male from Park Ridge, IL, United States: My short term goals are to compete internationally at the junior level this season for the US. My long term goals are to compete in senior at the highest level.

www.icepartnersearch.com

Michael Chapa is also listed as of 03/14/24

Michael Chapa - Ice Partner Search

Male from Lake Forest, Illinios, United States: My short term goals are to compete at US Nationals this season, compete at international competitions and be on Team USA. To continue developing stronger pairs skills like triple twist and triple throws element. My long term goal is to make the...

www.icepartnersearch.com

Well, I don't know that I think Fletcher/Felberbaum splitting is a huge loss - they struck me as more of a developmental pairing than anything else.

Chapa has been listed for awhile so he must have updated his bio again this week.

 

[Sylvia]

I was able to read this paywalled Boston Globe article by clicking on the link in this tweet (Spencer Howe’s surgery to repair the torn labrum in his shoulder took place on May 12, 2023):

https://twitter.com/x/status/1769691732902326274

Excerpts:

Behind the scenes, recovery was slow. Howe’s range of motion was not rebounding as quickly as hoped.
To improve Howe’s overhead position, David Merson [director of performance and recovery at Westwood’s Accelerated Performance Rehabilitation] focused his therapy on mobility and stability in the shoulder.
“He’s very thoughtful, he’s very intuitive, and he listens to his body very well,” said Merson. “He’s very aware of what goes on.”

Since then, Howe’s recovery has been on the upswing. In late February, the pair performed an exhibition at the US Synchronized Skating Championships in Las Vegas, difficult lifts included, confirming their world team spot.
Having the most important competition be their first of the season isn’t ideal, but Chan and Howe hope their return is successful and they can equal or better their performance of last year. It would set them up well for next season, which concludes with a World Championships in Boston.
“Even from the little exposure that we’ve gotten out this year, we’ve taken every opportunity to learn and grow from it and become a stronger team,” said Howe. “We’re really excited to be able to go out there, just deliver and see what we can do with our two performances.”

 

[A.H.Black]

I was able to read this paywalled Boston Globe article by clicking on the link in this tweet (Spencer Howe’s surgery to repair the torn labrum in his shoulder took place on May 12, 2023):

I have found recently that the address bar on my computer will often have a little "page" icon (toggle reader view) on it for these kinds of articles. When I click on it I can read the article. You have probably already found it but just in case.

 

[2sk8]

I'm shocked to read in this article that someone seems to have told him recovery time would be 3-9 months. Having been very close to a high level athlete who went through this, and knowing a few other pairs skaters that had surgeries for labral tears as well, the idea that anyone - elite athletes included - would be recovered enough to safely do overhead lifts in 3 months is borderline absurd. It simply is a surgery and rehab that takes quite a bit longer to get back to "normal" or the new normal - not just strength but especially full range of motion. Spencer is right on track and I hope they rock it!

 

[marshallpond]

Well, I don't know that I think Fletcher/Felberbaum splitting is a huge loss - they struck me as more of a developmental pairing than anything else.

I am still perplexed how they made it to the International Selection Pool when not one in any of their competitions did they manage to reach the qualifying scores. Oh well ... pairs is the only discipline you can get to the ISP by submitting a video (while the rest of the disciplines must get their qualifying scores via competition)

 

[Karen-W]

I am still perplexed how they made it to the International Selection Pool when not one in any of their competitions did they manage to reach the qualifying scores. Oh well ... pairs is the only discipline you can get to the ISP by submitting a video (while the rest of the disciplines must get their qualifying scores via competition)

Well, we were pretty thin on junior age-eligible pairs teams last season so I can understand how they wound up on the ISP. Hopefully it will be a higher bar this coming season.

 

[Sylvia]

Re-posting here from the Practice Reports thread yesterday in the 2024 Worlds subforum in Kiss & Cry:

30-second clip of Chan/Howe’s throw 3S & choreo moves in their Muse FS: https://x.com/abbylckharts/status/1769882714897858914
This person also commented [after being worried about their lifts/his shoulder] before the clip that they did “the most insane lift.”

 

[mtnskater]

Dismal showing from all three U.S. pairs in Montreal. Last night was a bummer for me P&F…she still cannot land her jumps. Lifts are good. Kam and O’Shea…I am thinking she will never master throw triples after 2 years. Still just crashing to the ice. Too bad. Hope I am wrong. I didn’t have high expectations for Chan and Howe after his surgery (and I love them) but she was the one missing things last night. Are the U.S. pairs down to one team for Boston?

 

[Evgeniafan]

Dismal showing from all three U.S. pairs in Montreal. Last night was a bummer for me P&F…she still cannot land her jumps. Lifts are good. Kam and O’Shea…I am thinking she will never master throw triples after 2 years. Still just crashing to the ice. Too bad. Hope I am wrong. I didn’t have high expectations for Chan and Howe after his surgery (and I love them) but she was the one missing things last night. Are the U.S. pairs down to one team for Boston?

2 teams, they lost one spot

 

[mtnskater]

Thanks! My group thought US was down to one.

 

[Karen-W]

Dismal showing from all three U.S. pairs in Montreal. Last night was a bummer for me P&F…she still cannot land her jumps. Lifts are good. Kam and O’Shea…I am thinking she will never master throw triples after 2 years. Still just crashing to the ice. Too bad. Hope I am wrong. I didn’t have high expectations for Chan and Howe after his surgery (and I love them) but she was the one missing things last night. Are the U.S. pairs down to one team for Boston?

I'm willing to give Chan/Howe a pass - they (especially Emily) were much stronger last season at 4CCs and Worlds after having had the chance to compete for the full season. Spencer told GoldenSkate after the FS that he's finally pain-free and I got the impression that their training has only gotten up to full gear in the past 6-8 weeks. Emily was landing all her stuff in the practice clips that surfaced so I really think it's just a matter of the programs just not having enough competition mileage yet. FWIW, I hate Exogenesis as skating music but I liked what I saw from their program and think they should keep it for next season. They need to ditch the Elvis SP though - or maybe rework the last minute, especially the step sequence - it just doesn't really build to a punchy, satisfying conclusion.

Plazas/Fernandez and Kam/O'Shea - I'm in agreement with those in the FS pbp thread who think both could benefit from a change in coaching/training center. Ellie desperately needs help with her throw triples and, for whatever reason, it's not coming together at WASA. I'd probably send them to SCoB or the Cains to get help on those throws. PlaFern need something to help get them past the mental block they've got on the jumps in competition, plus I'm not super-sold on Peterson's choreo. I'd send PlaFern to Oakton to work with Timothy LeDuc on choreography and Alexa Knierim on pairs girl-bossing.

 

[Karen-W]

Thanks! My group thought US was down to one.

because you don't know how to do basic math or recall the very simple formula for how Worlds spots are calculated?

 

[Sylvia]

because you don't know how to do basic math or recall the very simple formula for how Worlds spots are calculated?

Was that really necessary to post?

 

[Sylvia]

Mixed zone photos & quotes after the FS (Golden Skate):

Kam/O’Shea: https://www.instagram.com/p/C4zCAACuG_j/

Chan/Howe: https://www.instagram.com/p/C4zDsFEO8t1/

Plazas/Fernandez: https://www.instagram.com/p/C4y4qUZOcFD/

 

[Sarah]

P/F skated about how I expected them to. Honestly, other than the side by side jumps, they had a decent free skate. They may have been better off attempting less difficult jumps, but it wasn’t a bad effort. The second half of the program was really strong. I’d like to see them make some changes because I really like them as a team.

C/H looked like a team that has had minimal training. This looked like an early season effort which isn’t surprising. I suspect they’ll be stronger next year. Yes Emily has never been the most consistent but I’m not surprised that the lack of training alongside Spencer resulted in mistakes. Training alone is different than training together and timing is different. I wouldn’t be surprised if they come back significantly stronger next year.

K/O’S: the throws are a struggle. If they aren’t hitting them consistently in training, I’m not surprised they’re not hitting them in competition. I don’t have answers, but I hope they find something that works (different technique, coaching change, something). Otherwise, I’d rather see the doubles than the falls. Their falls are worse to me than P/F on jumps because yes P/F struggle but they occasionally land something. And they don’t collapse on the landings. These falls are just kind of scary to watch. Regardless, I just hope they do what’s best for Ellie.

Pairs are stronger than last year and the US does have some strong teams in the wings (I hope). I also hope Audrey Shin finds a partner soon! Either way, too early for doom and gloom.

 

[Karen-W]

Was that really necessary to post?

Perhaps not but this poster also posted in the Worlds KnC threads so they have access to the Multiple Entries thread there and could have easily found the answer before asking a pretty dumb question. This isn't like the Estonian men Euros situation.

Beyond that, I'm a little salty about how people are crapping all over the US pairs situation, acting like it's any more dire than it was, say, 3 years ago. We had a nice run there with KniFraz but things seem to have reverted back to the old status quo of "lots of teams that, on a good day, could finish in the 7-10 range at Worlds and on an average day will finish 10-16 and on a really bad day are at risk of not making the FS." It would be nice if these teams had done better this week however none of this was unexpected based on the seasons they have had. We'll just have to sit tight and see how it goes in the off-season.

Also, I want to make it clear - I'm happy that Ellie Kam is at least attempting throw triples this season. I prefer she at least makes the attempt at that level of content and I do see improvements from her on the jumping front. Last season, she was routinely getting a q on her SBS triples and she has cleaned that up. We've seen clips of her landing throw triples in practices so perhaps it is just a matter of time/more competitive experience with the adrenaline/psychological aspects of the throw triple. I'm not writing her off yet given her relative inexperience competitively. I haven't put her in the same "hopeless" class yet as, say Chelsea Liu - who I really don't think will ever get a reliable 3 for her SBSs.

 

[Tesla]

Beyond that, I'm a little salty about how people are crapping all over the US pairs situation, acting like it's any more dire than it was, say, 3 years ago. We had a nice run there with KniFraz but things seem to have reverted back to the old status quo of "lots of teams that, on a good day, could finish in the 7-10 range at Worlds and on an average day will finish 10-16 and on a really bad day are at risk of not making the FS." It would be nice if these teams had done better this week however none of this was unexpected based on the seasons they have had. We'll just have to sit tight and see how it goes in the off-season.

I hate how the US pairs get crap for the jumps when teams worldwide are having the same issue but don't get near as much criticism.

 

[Wyliefan]

I often ask our IT guy at work very dumb questions, because that stuff does not come naturally to me at all. (I just did it again a few minutes ago.) He could snap at me and tell me I'm being dumb, but instead he's always incredibly patient and kind.

Just saying.

 

[Spiralgraph]

To be slightly positive about US pairs (and I was a little down yesterday after their programs) the lifts of all the American pairs were outstanding. I love the lift of P/F where he's supporting her by holding her on her thigh. I've loved that lift ever since I saw Amanda and Mark perform it 15 years ago! Our pair guys are super strong and are are pretty good jumpers as a whole.

Agree with @Karen-W, the usual ranking of the top American pair hovers around the 7-10 range and the other pairs within striking distance of the top 12. But I do see hope on the horizon for next year and beyond. I'm not giving up on American pairs at all.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I kind of hope for a whole new podium at US nationals next year

Katie and Daniil
MarBed
Liu and Nagy
Efimova And Mitro

I’m very much over the three US teams at worlds and have been

 

[Karen-W]

I kind of hope for a whole new podium at US nationals next year

Katie and Daniil
MarBed
Liu and Nagy
Efimova And Mitro

I’m very much over the three US teams at worlds and have been

Sweetie... You do realize that two of those teams were on the podium this year, right?

I do think, though, that we're going to see a different podium than this season. Chan/Howe will be back, McBeath/Parkman will (knock on wood) not have any boot/blade mishaps during Nats, Efimova/Mitrofanov will (like McBPark) have had a lot more time to gel plus international competitive experience. I'm not sure, beyond those three, who will slide into 4th. Martins/Bedard have a lot of ground to cover if they want to surpass Kam/O'Shea, Plazas/Fernandez and Liu/Nagy - their lifts and death spiral need significant improvement.

 

[Trillian]

To be slightly positive about US pairs (and I was a little down yesterday after their programs) the lifts of all the American pairs were outstanding. I love the lift of P/F where he's supporting her by holding her on her thigh. I've loved that lift ever since I saw Amanda and Mark perform it 15 years ago! Our pair guys are super strong and are are pretty good jumpers as a whole.

I could watch P/F’s lifts all. day. long. On top of that, I have to say, their pairs spin is always a real highlight for me. It’s one of my least favorite elements in general because it’s so rarely done that well, but theirs is easily one of the best in the world IMO.

I hope K/O can figure out the throws somehow, because I’m in the camp that finds those falls really hard to watch. I’ve seen the successful ones on social media, and even those look like she’s barely hanging on. I’m genuinely worried she’s going to end up injured. But they’re such a great match in a lot of other ways that I’m still crossing my fingers it will happen.

C/H looked like a team that was barely back from injury. I wouldn’t make any future predictions based on Worlds alone.

With some of the other promising teams that debuted this season in the mix, I have a feeling next year’s nationals will be a lot more interesting than anything we saw this year. It’s just a rough patch.

Agree with @Karen-W, the usual ranking of the top American pair hovers around the 7-10 range and the other pairs within striking distance of the top 12. But I do see hope on the horizon for next year and beyond. I'm not giving up on American pairs at all.

I think people are disappointed because theoretically with the gap left at the top by the Russian and Chinese teams, there should be room for the Americans to move up a bit from the previous status quo. But we’re just looking at a lot of new partnerships at once right now. It’s going to take time to see which ones gel.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

You do realize that two of those teams were on the podium this year, right?

Efimova and Mitro and who else? Refresh my screwdriver?

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

their lifts and death spiral need significant improvement.

But they got the jumps and the throws babyyyyyyyyy



Name any US team at worlds the season that had those.

 

[mtnskater]

because you don't know how to do basic math or recall the very simple formula for how Worlds spots are calculated?

Please excuse my complete ignorance My Liege, and my lack of good internet connection in the Bell Center and not to mention lack of time with late nights and early mornings at a live event to scour all posts on the internet before I ask a simple question that several of us were not sure of

Thanks to those who kindly responded without rancor or shame