2023-24 US Pairs Discussion - Chan you count Howe many teams we have?

[barbk]

My perception (just from anecdotes) is that pairs is the discipline with the greatest chance of brain, spinal or facial injuries.

 

[marshallpond]

Amanda Evora was good at telling her how an element felt, doing it.

Having a woman as a coach in the team who knows what its like to be a pairs skater, like Amanda, is very useful. I've talked with some pair teams who lament not having a woman coach who can tell them what it's like and how to do a specific element from a woman's perspective.

fairly few high-level training centers for ice dance—yet the US, at least, has plenty of very competitive young dance teams.

I know ice dancers will hate me for this -- as they always say that people have the misconception that ice dancing is easy -- but a lot of single skaters who can't land their double axels or can't progress much in terms of jumps and spins find ice dancing is a better fit for them. Hence, there's an abundance of ice dancers around, so much so that we now have solo ice dance, shadow ice dance, and other ice dancing variants. Abundance of skaters mean availability of more coaches, even if the top tier still prefers the teams of Igor, MIDA, WISA, etc.

Pairs, however, require jumps, spins, and all the derring-do pair elements. So you have fewer skaters going into pairs skating because it is much tougher. The best fit for pairs, in my opinion, are good single skaters. We're lamenting pair teams who can't do a decent triple SBS but can do wonderful lifts, throws, and twists. But when you have good single skaters like Olivia and Luke who can jump and do pair elements, then you've got a strong team

 

[flyingsit]

Not discounting what you say in any way, but wouldn’t all those factors also apply when a young skater chooses ice dance? There are fairly few high-level training centers for ice dance—yet the US, at least, has plenty of very competitive young dance teams.

Yes, but… you can learn dance and compete at low levels in many places. It’s rare to find a rink that has coaches you’d trust to teach your kid overhead lifts, plus the fact that a lot of rinks don’t allow pairs to skate on regular freestyle sessions.

Even as an adult pair skater I ran into that; some rinks in the area wanted us to skate on dance sessions which made no sense at all.

 

[kalamalka]

Agree with several of the commen

Yes, but… you can learn dance and compete at low levels in many places. It’s rare to find a rink that has coaches you’d trust to teach your kid overhead lifts, plus the fact that a lot of rinks don’t allow pairs to skate on regular freestyle sessions.

Even as an adult pair skater I ran into that; some rinks in the area wanted us to skate on dance sessions which made no sense at all.

Agree with this and @marshallpond above. The pool of potential dancers is much larger, the skill set of pairs is much more varied, and there are a lot more opportunities to get to a reasonable level in dance at a large number of rinks than pairs. I was very impressed with the story about Kemp/Elizarov (Canadian, 2nd at JGPF this year) and their coach - starting from a rink in a province with no pair skaters, coach with no pair experience, but a coach and skaters who wanted to do pairs and a lot of dedication from all of them. They had a lot of support and mentorship, and short training opportunities for both coach and skaters in a pairs school to enable them to get to the point of JGP success before moving to a pairs school.

 

[happycamper2554]

Taich/Chapa (1st at Novice pair final/2nd at Novice Nationals) have split. She is searching for a new partner per Chris Knierim's IG stories. Not unsurprising given the age difference.

 

[marshallpond]

Taich/Chapa (1st at Novice pair final/2nd at Novice Nationals) have split. She is searching for a new partner per Chris Knierim's IG stories. Not unsurprising given the age difference.

I mentioned this in a different thread last Feb 2 https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...oin-the-sbs-double-salchow-club.110748/page-6

Taich has been actively searching for potential partners for months now, reaching out to Junior Men competitors like Elano, Maravilla, etc. Elano does not want to do pairs, while Maravilla (whom Taich previously tried out with when Maravilla and Carpenter split after their intermediate season) is sticking it out with Carpenter. Taich is a very spunky girl and I hope she finds a great partner.

 

[Karen-W]

Taich is quite young so there is time for her to find a partner closer to her own age. Crossing my fingers for her if not this next season then in the next couple years.

 

[Sarah]

The Taich/Chapa split makes sense. To be perfectly honest, that’s the type of split that should be encouraged after novice. There really isn’t any long term potential due to the age difference and eligibility rules.

I know we talk about teams not sticking together, but not every team should stay together (even if they’re well matched). She’s very young and I believe will be in juniors forever. Might as well find a partner with whom she can compete. Hopefully she’ll find a partner.

 

[Karen-W]

Looks like Chan/Howe and Liu/Nagy are in Las Vegas for the US Synchro Championships.

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I know Chan/Howe also spent some time at Great Parks after Nats, but were back in Boston last week.

 

[marshallpond]

Good article on how tough it was for Luke Wang and Jon Maravilla to compete in both singles and pairs at the Nationals

How Luke Wang and Jon Maravilla navigate elite competition in both singles and pairs
 – Figure Skaters Online

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Shout out to Isabelle and Ryan who we get to see compete one more time this weekend

️

 

[Karen-W]

Couple of brief clips of Chan/Howe during the pairs exhibition on Team Excel's IG story.

Looks like they performed their FS (costumes definitely aren't the ones they wore in the SP at Nats, lol). Warm-up with SBS jumps; 3tw - bit low and crashy; and one of their lifts - good speed but he's still using both hands/arms which will lower the level, but there is still 4 weeks until Worlds so hopefully it will improve.

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[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Isabelle and Ryan short program today where they earned their short program minimums

Isabelle Martins/ Ryan Bedard 2024 Challenge Cup SP

www.youtube.com

 

[Sylvia]

Cayla Smith, 15, is listed on IPS as of today (Feb. 25): https://icepartnersearch.com/showbio.php?i=7319

I had assumed that she and Jared McPike (will be 17 on March 2) teamed up specifically to participate in the Youth Olympic Games — it was only their second competition together. A local Fort Wayne, Indiana news station interviewed them and coach Alena Lunin before they left for YOG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx5t9WS8DlQ

 

[Wyliefan]

I'm not surprised. Hope she finds someone good.

 

[Karen-W]

I'm not surprised. Hope she finds someone good.

Neither am I. She is such a talent and that's a rarity in US pairs these days. She won't be senior age-eligible until the 2026-27 so hopefully she can find someone who is junior age-eligible for a couple of seasons.

 

[marshallpond]

The location certainly was a challenge for them, with Cayla staying put in Indiana, and Jared in Colorado Springs. How many back and forth trips can do you every week until you say my wallet's not having it LOL ... though the team up really was just for YOG. I heard before she said no to him when he requested a tryout before the YOG thing was announced

 

[Frau Muller]

Cayla Smith, 15, is listed on IPS as of today (Feb. 25): https://icepartnersearch.com/showbio.php?i=7319

I had assumed that she and Jared McPike (will be 17 on March 2) teamed up specifically to participate in the Youth Olympic Games — it was only their second competition together. A local Fort Wayne, Indiana news station interviewed them and coach Alena Lunin before they left for YOG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx5t9WS8DlQ

Not surprised. McPike seemed too shy but he helped her attain the Youth Olympics silver medal.

 

[Sylvia]

Before Flores/Wang make their debut at Junior Worlds, here's an article by Lynn Rutherford that includes quotes from Drew Meekins (Feb. 26):

The force is with Flores and Wang in Taipei – Figure Skaters Online

figureskatersonline.com

Also, Luke, together with his podcasting partner Lindsay Wang, 2-time U.S. national senior competitor (they're not related) are featured in today's episode of the "This Week in Skating" podcast:

This Week in Skating / Interview with Lindsay Wang & Luke Wang of Off(ice) Hours Podcast

Listen to This Week in Skating Podcast on RedCircle

redcircle.com

ETA:

Junior Worlds SP Group 2:
11:28:00 - 11:34:00 6 Adele ZHENG / Andy DENG USA [Wed. 10:28 pm Eastern start time]
11:34:00 - 11:40:00 7 Naomi WILLIAMS / Lachlan LEWER USA
Group 3:
12:04:30 - 12:10:30 11 Olivia FLORES / Luke WANG USA [11:04 pm ET]

 

[Sylvia]

What an unexpected pleasure to see Flores/Wang (silver) AND Williams/Lewer (bronze) on the Junior Worlds podium today!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1763204703033217156

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

What an unexpected pleasure to see Flores/Wang (silver) AND Williams/Lewer (bronze) on the Junior Worlds podium today!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1763204703033217156

is the goddess of pairs figure skating Natalia, not on the gram?

 

[ice coverage]

What an unexpected pleasure to see Flores/Wang (silver) AND Williams/Lewer (bronze) on the Junior Worlds podium today! ...

Congratulations to Flores/Wang and Williams/Lewer

Also to F/W for having highest FS TES.

As an aside, it was nice that Luke spoke some Mandarin in the SP press conference:

" And I do want to say something in Mandarin for the Taiwanese federation & fans. [He proceeded to summarize what he said in Mandarin] I just said thank you to the Taiwanese skating union, thank you to the Taiwanese fans who came and watched today. We took so much energy from them and we couldn't do it without the help and the support from the federation and from the fans. "​

(FS press conference highlights have not been published yet.)

is the goddess of pairs figure skating Natalia, not on the gram?

If you're wondering why Natalia was not tagged on X (formerly Twitter), she does not seem to have an X account.
Today when Luke gave thanks on X to Natalia, he (like Sylvia) did not tag Natalia on X.

https://twitter.com/lukeawang/status/1763087930846036238

 

[Karen-W]

is the goddess of pairs figure skating Natalia, not on the gram?

She does have an IG and is regularly tagged by her teams on there.

ETA - https://www.instagram.com/p/C375NhtLJ32/?igsh=ZTJsaXhhNDhsYW9t

 

[Karen-W]

It was a great competition by all three of the US Pairs teams at Jr Worlds! Not only did Flores/Wang and Williams/Lewer finish in 2nd & 3rd respectively but Adele Zheng/Andy Deng came in 10th - once again next season, the USA will have 3 entries for Jr Worlds and we'll have 3 entries at all 4 JGPs - and we need those since we have several promising teams (who hopefully stick together).

Per GoldSk8, Williams/Lewer plan on moving up to seniors next year. I do wonder if that will change if the age max for juniors is raised, but for now, presuming they do stick with that plan to move up to seniors both domestically and internationally, that leaves us with the following junior teams internationally:

Flores/Wang (age-ineligible for seniors - plan to compete senior domestically)
Zheng/Deng
Moss/Galbavy
Carpenter/Maravilla
Park/Griffin
Fletcher/Felberbaum
Jarmoc/Witkowski
Kovar/Apter

That's 8 teams plus any new ones that form (Baylen Taich and Cayla Smith are both looking for partners and one must think Jared McPike is as well). We're going to have some decent teams that might not even get a JGP assignment because there are only 12 spots total!

 

[ice coverage]

... Per GoldSk8, Williams/Lewer plan on moving up to seniors next year. I do wonder if that will change if the age max for juniors is raised, but for now, presuming they do stick with that plan to move up to seniors both domestically and internationally, that leaves us with the following junior teams internationally:

Flores/Wang (age-ineligible for seniors - plan to compete senior domestically)
Zheng/Deng
Moss/Galbavy
Carpenter/Maravilla
Park/Griffin
Fletcher/Felberbaum
Jarmoc/Witkowski
Kovar/Apter

If(???) USFS proposal to "freeze" senior pair minimum age requirement at 16 were to go thru, then Flores/Wang would be age-eligible for senior internationals.

From Junior Worlds FS press conference highlights, thoughts re competing junior and/or senior next season:

Luke Wang:​

(on your future plans if the ISU pairs age rule changes) We have one (more) year regardless of any age change. We actually don't know about the Grand Prix season. I mean it heavily relies on world rankings so we will see. Junior Worlds is always fun and this is our first one so I'd love to come back. We'd love to dabble in senior as well, so definitely something we're going to work for.​

​

Lachlan Lewer:​

(on your future plans if the ISU pairs age rule changes) So I think hopefully our plan for next season is to move up to Senior, hopefully get maybe a Senior Grand Prix if we train hard enough and get the elements that we need to get. But if they change the rules (note: he turned 21 in January) maybe Junior Worlds once again? I mean this is such a fun event – the atmosphere, the skaters, the crowd, I mean it’s fantastic! But I think we’re going to go up to senior next year and work our butts off to get there.​

Re Fletcher/Felberbaum: She will not be age-eligible next season for junior internationals, per their Nats bio.

ETA:​

Forgot to say that I learned from FS presser that Luke grew up as a musical theater kid. ​

 

[Karen-W]

If(???) USFS proposal to "freeze" senior pair minimum age requirement at 16 were to go thru, then Flores/Wang would be age-eligible for senior internationals.

I can't see any proposal to "freeze" the senior pair minimum age requirement passing. The ISU was very intentional two years ago and after the Valieva situation I don't see any proposal to lower the senior age minimum from 17 getting the support necessary at the ISU Congress.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Congratulations to Flores/Wang and Williams/Lewer

Also to F/W for having highest FS TES.

As an aside, it was nice that Luke spoke some Mandarin in the SP press conference:

" And I do want to say something in Mandarin for the Taiwanese federation & fans. [He proceeded to summarize what he said in Mandarin] I just said thank you to the Taiwanese skating union, thank you to the Taiwanese fans who came and watched today. We took so much energy from them and we couldn't do it without the help and the support from the federation and from the fans. "​

(FS press conference highlights have not been published yet.)



If you're wondering why Natalia was not tagged on X (formerly Twitter), she does not seem to have an X account.
Today when Luke gave thanks on X to Natalia, he (like Sylvia) did not tag Natalia on X.

https://twitter.com/lukeawang/status/1763087930846036238

Oh, that was X, I thought it was the gram. OK

 

[Panja]

And I don't wish for a freeze. No 22-year old men throwing around small girls of 16. Please no!

 

[Karen-W]

New partnership of Gracie Gottschalk and Sam Herbert training in Michigan with Jim Peterson & Amanda Evora.

Jim Peterson on Instagram: "Congratulations to Gracie Gottschalk and Sam Herbert on their new partnership! Welcome to the Arctic family 🇺🇸💪🏼 (a couple nice throws from their tryout.)"

jpcoach01 on March 1, 2024: "Congratulations to Gracie Gottschalk and Sam Herbert on their new partnership! Welcome to the Arctic family 🇺🇸💪🏼 (a couple ni..."

www.instagram.com

 

[Sylvia]

Cayla Smith has removed her profile from IPS - new article on her & Jared McPike and their YOG experience:

How Cayla Smith and Jared McPike won Winter Youth Olympic silver after only five months together – Figure Skaters Online