2023-24 US Pairs Discussion - Chan you count Howe many teams we have?

[Karen-W]

Efimova and Mitro and who else? Refresh my screwdriver?

Podium was Kam/O'Shea, Efimova/Mitrofanov, Plazas/Fernandez and Liu/Nagy.

 

[marshallpond]

PlaFern need something to help get them past the mental block they've got on the jumps in competition, plus I'm not super-sold on Peterson's choreo.

Unfortunately, it's not a mental block. The skill is just not there. She only started learning triple jumps a couple or so years ago, and she has never been able to land jumps consistently, if at all. Jumping skills are much, much harder to learn.

The problem is that they don't have a good jump coach in Canton (the only good jumping coach retired in 2022, and even then, Val did not work with her). Though I'm not sure if they'd consider moving elsewhere: Max especially is joined to the hips with Peterson/Evora, having been his coach since his Florida days.

The approach USFS seems to be taking is finding good single skaters who can jump and turn them into pair skaters. I have always heard that it is much easier to learn pair elements, but it is not easy to learn jumps. If you can do triple jumps, triple throws are just a breeze to learn. Hence, you have the problem that plaques pair skaters (not just US), where they can do absolutely stunning pair elements but cannot jump.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Podium was Kam/O'Shea, Efimova/Mitrofanov, Plazas/Fernandez and Liu/Nagy.

Oh dear, I never count the pewter. No way Jose.

 

[Karen-W]

Oh dear, I never count the pewter. No way Jose.

But you just named 4 teams you expect to podium next year...

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

But you just named 4 teams you expect to podium next year...

I know I added in Efimova and mitro as a wild horse, they’re not my cup of tea yet, but still wouldn’t have mind seeing them at worlds instead of these three

We’re only going to have two teams next year I’d like them to be two completely different teams if possible

 

[Tesla]

But they got the jumps and the throws babyyyyyyyyy



Name any US team at worlds the season that had those.

Because it's not all about the damn jumps!

 

[Tesla]

We’re only going to have two teams next year I’d like them to be two completely different teams if possible

I'd like to give Chan/Howe a chance because they were injured this year.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Because it's not all about the damn jumps!

ummmmm For USA pairs it is, it’s so refreshing to see a team that can do them, since absolutely none outside of Alexa and Brandon can.

Jumps have forever been USA Pairs elephant in the room, so how cool to see a team that doesn’t usually have issues with them.

Ellie and Danny can put my gosh the throws.

 

[Tesla]

ummmmm For USA pairs it is, it’s so refreshing to see a team that can do them, since absolutely none outside of Alexa and Brandon can.

Jumps have forever been USA Pairs elephant in the room, so how cool to see a team that doesn’t usually have issues with them.

Ellie and Danny can put my gosh the throws.

For a lot of pairs worldwide it is. Not just the US pairs yet they seem to get picked on the most.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

the US pairs yet they seem to get picked on the most.

Because it’s been a tradition. Some traditions are meant to be broken.

 

[Karen-W]

ummmmm For USA pairs it is, it’s so refreshing to see a team that can do them, since absolutely none outside of Alexa and Brandon can.

Ellie and Danny can put my gosh the throws.

Listen... Your faves have some areas of significant weakness - lifts in particular. Ryan is probably the least stable looking of the top 10 US teams (C/H, K/O'S, E/M, L/N, P/F, McB/P, M/B, Korytek/Chapman, Digerness/Sadusky, Fitzpatrick/Bearinger) and that's without Siianytsia in the mix. Ryan has a lot of work to do to catch up. He's also very young still and needs to continue to build his upper body strength and I think that will come with time. But right now? In a discipline where lifts (both overhead and twist) and death spirals are also required elements, your team isn't going to be on top simply because of good SBS jumps and throws.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Listen... Your faves have some areas of significant weakness - lifts in particular. Ryan is probably the least stable looking of the top 10 US teams (C/H, K/O'S, L/N, P/F, McB/P, M/B, Korytek/Chapman, Digerness/Sadusky, Fitzpatrick/Bearinger) and that's without Siianytsia in the mix. Ryan has a lot of work to do to catch up. He's also very young still and needs to continue to build his upper body strength and I think that will come with time. But right now? In a discipline where lifts (both overhead and twist) and death spirals are also required elements, your team isn't going to be on top simply because of good SBS jumps and throws.

Lol I’m trying to watch ice dance y’all not comment on the gold medalists MarBed

I’m just saying it’s so great to have a US team that can do the elements that most US teams have not been able to do it since I can’t remember.

And they are also a team that looks so happy on the ice and thoroughly enjoy what they’re doing.

MarBed might not have the best lifts and twists but they stay vertical. None of the US teams at worlds and there were three of them could stay vertical.

 

[Tesla]

Lol I’m trying to watch ice dance y’all not comment on the gold medalists MarBed

I’m just saying it’s so great to have a US team that can do the elements that most US teams have not been able to do it since I can’t remember.

And they are also a team that looks so happy on the ice and thoroughly enjoy what they’re doing.

MarBed might not have the best lifts and twists but they stay vertical. None of the US teams at worlds and there were three of them could stay vertical.

So if a team doesn't have good lifts or twists (hallmarks of pairs skating) but good jumps, that's ok?! Pairs is not all about the jumps. A hell of a lot more damage can be done to someone in a lift than a jump.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

So if a team doesn't have good lifts or twists (hallmarks of pairs skating) but good jumps, that's ok?

For the first time in forever, yes

 

[Sylvia]

We like what we like. I personally don't see the point of arguing or pointing out the flaws -- that all pair teams have -- in a negative, unconstructive way.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

We like what we like. I personally don't see the point of arguing or pointing out the flaws -- that all pair teams have -- in a negative, unconstructive way.

Totes. I’m engaged in ice dance right now.

 

[nylynnr]

FWIW, Kam & O'Shea regularly travel to Canada to work with Bruno Marcotte on their throws.

 

[Sylvia]

FWIW, Kam & O'Shea regularly travel to Canada to work with Bruno Marcotte on their throws.

But not their twist?

 

[Sylvia]

SO glad to see NBC posted clips of these impressive final lifts in the FS yesterday:

Kam/O'Shea: https://twitter.com/NBCOlympics/status/1770973101175500955

Plazas/Fernandez: https://twitter.com/NBCOlympics/status/1770959343556382789

 

[nylynnr]

But not their twist?

Not sure what you mean, Sylvia.

 

[Karen-W]

But not their twist?

Let's hope not! Drew & Natalia seem to teach a pretty good twist technique for their teams at WASA. Unlike a certain Canadian out of Oakville...

 

[Sylvia]

Not sure what you mean, Sylvia.

Never mind (bad “insider” joke, sorry!). ETA: See above.

 

[Sylvia]

Valentina Plazas’ gratitude post today: https://www.instagram.com/p/C40nBQQrP2h/

She included a pic (#4) with Ondrej Hotarek :
"... + total fangirl moment getting a picture with Ondrej, I fell in love with pairs watching him and Valentina in 2018"

Photo #5 is of /with their roommates, Emily & Spencer (eta - 4th & final post in this mixed zone thread): https://x.com/anythinggoe/status/1770959322652008582

 

[nylynnr]

I know I added in Efimova and mitro as a wild horse, they’re not my cup of tea yet, but still wouldn’t have mind seeing them at worlds instead of these three

They are a dark card, to be sure.

 

[Spiralgraph]

Well next season our new Junior Champions will compete senior domestically. Olivia Flores/Luke Wang They completed triples and a sbs double axel combo in their LP at nationals and won the silver medal at junior worlds. There is hope out there, really!

 

[Karen-W]

Well next season our new Junior Champions will compete senior domestically. Olivia Flores/Luke Wang They completed triples and a sbs double axel combo in their LP at nationals and won the silver medal at junior worlds. There is hope out there, really!

Sadly, they're not eligible for senior internationally until 2025-26.

 

[skatingguy]

I kind of hope for a whole new podium at US nationals next year

Katie and Daniil
MarBed
Liu and Nagy
Efimova And Mitro

I’m very much over the three US teams at worlds and have been

With regards to Martins/Bedard

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[Willin]

Honestly I don't think US pairs have gotten worse. I think they're getting better.

A huge part of the problem is just that the rest of the world has gotten a lot better. Pair that with a slightly worse than normal skate from K/O and a very subpar skate from C/H (likely due to injury and lack of training time) and this result is just a blip.

 

[Yuri]

I must admit that I thought the USA would have only a single pairs entry in Boston next year when no couple placed in the top 10, as I didn't realize the rule was that any country with 2 or 3 entries needed the top two to score 28 placements or better to keep two. As frustrating as it was to watch all of the mistakes this week, the big picture is that only the USA and Canada placed THREE pairs in the top 15 at Worlds. And that's without the fabulous Knieriem and Frazier competing this year after their gold and silver placements at the past two Worlds. So there is some depth there. Plus I agree that all three USA couples have amazing, innovative, and difficult lifts. I think the USA pairs situation is still OK despite the disappointment in Montreal.

 

[Karen-W]

I must admit that I thought the USA would have only a single pairs entry in Boston next year when no couple placed in the top 10, as I didn't realize the rule was that any country with 2 or 3 entries needed the top two to score 28 placements or better to keep two. As frustrating as it was to watch all of the mistakes this week, the big picture is that only the USA and Canada placed THREE pairs in the top 15 at Worlds. And that's without the fabulous Knieriem and Frazier competing this year after their gold and silver placements at the past two Worlds. So there is some depth there. Plus I agree that all three USA couples have amazing, innovative, and difficult lifts. I think the USA pairs situation is still OK despite the disappointment in Montreal.

Well, they were also the only countries with three entries in Montreal. And even if Italy had been able to send a 3rd team, I'm quite sure that all three of those countries would have placed all three of their teams in the Top 15. Now, Germany, next year... I have my doubts that RoSchu will finish in the top 15, so I guess there is that.