2022-23 Pairs General Discussion - You Get a GP! You Get a GP! All of You Get a GP!

RoseRed

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Here are some new teams on the Nebelhorn entry list:
FRA - Coline Keriven/Tom Bouvart
FRA - Aurelie Faula/Theo Belle (S)
JPN - Miyu Yunoki/Shoya Ichihashi

And Canada has entered Kelly Ann Laurin/Loucas Ethier to compete at US Classic the week after the John Nicks Pairs Challenge.

Spain has assigned both of their new junior teams to the JGP. There is also a new junior team from the Netherlands - Giulia Papa/Grigory Kornienko scheduled to debut at JGP POL 1.
Laurin/Ethier have been competing together for a while, so not a newly formed or released team for @Sylvia 's list (though I do think they have a good chance of getting one of the SC TBD spots). There are Tilda Alteryd and Gabriel Farand, who competed together at the Skate Ontario August event. I'm not really expecting them to compete international this year though based on the score.
 

Karen-W

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Laurin/Ethier have been competing together for a while, so not a newly formed or released team for @Sylvia 's list (though I do think they have a good chance of getting one of the SC TBD spots). There are Tilda Alteryd and Gabriel Farand, who competed together at the Skate Ontario August event. I'm not really expecting them to compete international this year though based on the score.
Yeah, I didn't include them when Sylvia asked because I knew their score wasn't likely to put them in the mix for any internationals. Same with all the new US teams who aren't even in the USFS' ISP yet. It's like "what's the point?" because the chances of them competing internationally are really low to begin with if they can't even clear 145+ domestically.
 

Belsornia

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I like the sentiment of this but what is the ISU's purpose? On one hand, there are people on this forum who are dismayed that the ISU made the decision to devalue quad elements in favor of pairs performing elements and maintaining safety. The argument is that pairs lagged behind if with quad throws and quad twists devalued. This Olympics was one of the best skated Olympics in pairs. I personally never felt comfortable with the way some pairs, particularly the Chinese, would push the envelope with the quad throws with some incredibly painful looking falls. I'm also glad that they stopped pairs from doing these horrible lifts that they were doing at the inception of COP where there was a change of direction in the middle of the lift without setting the partner down. Pairs lifts are still becoming incredibly acrobatic with some of the dismounts. To be able to do difficult, more gymnastics like elements well, girls have to do these skills at a young age. I think that the goal of ISU events for juniors is to prepare competitors for senior ISU events. The female partner in the pair is the one doing all the acrobatic like elements in the air. There isn't as much need for a guy to start young but females have to be very comfortable doing this stuff and this happens from a young age. So I'm not sure that simplifying juniors to allow similarly aged/sized teens to skate together is going to really prepare these competitors for a world stage in which spectator interest is heavily focused on risk.
Belatedly:

I certainly don't have all the answers. But I do think the ISU as the governing body has a responsibility to promote safe and healthy (in all aspects) international competition. It also has a responsibility to progress the sport, and to promote competition - and I guess, related to this, to bring in audiences (and :bribe:). And part of this is to develop the athletes who will compete in those competitions.

At the junior level, I'd say the balance swings towards development. People who tune into the JGP are largely hardcore fans or people involved in skating themselves. And having rules and requirements that can bring more skaters into pairs at that level will help to build stronger fields and better competition at senior level down the line.

It's true that the high risk elements draw casual fans to pairs at Olympics, Worlds etc. And I agree that well done triples and smooth lifts showcase the sport better than painful crashy quads and scary lifts. But I don't really agree that girls have to start at a young age if they're going to compete at a high level in pairs, though it can certainly help. Several competitors at senior championships last season did not: Miriam Ziegler was an Olympian in singles; Vanessa James, Katie McBeath and Anastasia Vaipan-Law competed internationally in singles and switched in their late teens; Zoe Jones and Deanna Stellato took up pairs in their thirties. Hopefully there can be more than one path to the top.
 

Sylvia

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Re-posting an excerpt from @Karen-W's post here from the U.S. Pairs thread :):
Next week is going to be huge and it will be really interesting to see which teams are entered in the John Nicks Pairs Challenge on both the junior and senior sides.

Smith/Deng [silver in Ostrava] will have their 2nd JGP assignment in Riga next week and will, hopefully, come home with another medal. On paper, of the teams with competition experience, they are the strongest team in the field. The two Canadian teams scored around 104-105 at different Canadian summer comps and the Uzbeki team's ISU PB is around 99 from last season on the JGP. The Spanish and German teams are new, I believe.
ETA that I originally thought it was strange that USFS didn't also assign Baram/Tioumentsev to JGP Riga (and have them avoid meeting Golubeva/Giotopoulos Moore until the JGP Final) but now, after Ostrava, I think it looks like a very smart move! :D
 
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Sylvia

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For those without access to the Kiss & Cry section and the 2022 John Nicks Pairs Challenge competition thread, I've tweeted the results link (includes a screenshot of the 10 Senior pairs entries): https://twitter.com/SylviaUnseen/status/1567897769381093379

Posted earlier in this thread - Alteryd/Farand are also entered in the John Nicks Challenge representing Canada (ETA that they have since been listed as disqualified in the SP results):
Austria has 2 new pairs: Sophia Schaller (new to pairs) & Livo Mayr and Italy's Giorgia Ghedini (competed as a junior internationally last season) & Luc Maierhofer
ETA that Schaller/Mayr have since been listed as WD from John Nicks.
There are Tilda Alteryd and Gabriel Farand, who competed together at the Skate Ontario August event. I'm not really expecting them to compete international this year though based on the score.
ETA: Italy's Ghilardi/Ambrosini and 4 of the U.S. pairs -- Chan/Howe, Plazas/Fernandez, Mokhova/Mokhov and Wessenberg/Eisenach -- are competing at John Nicks today & tomorrow and then at next week's U.S. Classic in Lake Placid.
 
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Karen-W

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Vaipan-Law/Digby are now withdrawn from US Classic. They are, however, entered in Finlandia Trophy, so there is still a chance they can earn the total score minimum necessary to become alternates for the GP since they're on the SB Top 75 list.

Exciting to FINALLY see Gamez/Korovin entered in a competition! Smirnova/Siianytsia are the only team confirmed on the USFS Int'l Assignments page. My guess is that the other two teams won't be confirmed until after the decision for the SkAm TBD spot is made.

1 Brooke MCINTOSH / Benjamin MIMAR CAN 1
2 Anastasia VAIPAN-LAW / Luke DIGBY GBR 2
3 Anastasiia METELKINA / Daniil PARKMAN GEO 3
4 Alisa EFIMOVA / Ruben BLOMMAERT GER 4
5 Annika HOCKE / Robert KUNKEL GER 4
6 Letizia ROSCHER / Luis SCHUSTER GER 4
7 Daria DANILOVA / Michel TSIBA NED 5
8 Nika OSIPOVA / Dmitry EPSTEIN NED 5
9 Isabella GAMEZ / Aleksandr KOROVIN PHI 6
10 Maria MOKHOVA / Ivan MOKHOV USA 7
11 Valentina PLAZAS / Maximiliano FERNANDEZ USA 7
12 Anastasiia SMIRNOVA / Danylo SIIANYTSIA USA 7
Megan WESSENBERG / Blake EISENACH USA 7 S
 

miffy

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@Karen-W Your post makes me happy and sad - sad about Anna and Luke but so happy we will see Korovin! And Efimova. That must be a bit weird but hopefully it was a friendly split :)
 

Andrea82

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Matteo Guarise is working with Lucrezia Beccari. He talked about it during the livestream of Lombardia Trophy. They are working to be ready for Italian Nationals.

Osipova/Epstein achieved the FS TES minimum for Worlds at Lombardia Trophy (not parte of Challenger Series, but had requirements for International status). They already had the SP minimum from 2022 Bavarian Open. So Netherlands can use both their spots at 2023 Worlds.
 
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Wyliefan

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Matteo Guarise is working with Lucrezia Beccari. He talked about it during the livestream of Lombardia Trophy. They are working to be ready for Italian Nationals.
Oh wow! I really hope pairs works out for Lucrezia!
 

Karen-W

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Osipova/Epstein achieved the FS TES minimum for Worlds at Lombardia Trophy (not parte of Challenger Series, but had requirements for International status). They already had the SP minimum from 2022 Bavarian Open. So Netherlands can use both their spots at 2023 Worlds.
Yes, hopefully they can match their total score from this weekend at Nebelhorn so that they can be added to the GP Pairs alternate list. Teams that are on the SB Top 75 but need the total minimum score are allowed to be added to the alternates list if they earn the total minimum score at a Challenger this season.

Vaipan-Law/Digby are listed for Finlandia, so hopefully they'll compete there and earn the total minimum score so they can also be added to the GP Pairs alternate list.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Any news about when Alexa and Brandon will start their season? It seems from her Instagram she’s been traveling I think she was in Rome last week. They’re not at Neblehorn. Wonder when they will start
 

Karen-W

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Any news about when Alexa and Brandon will start their season? It seems from her Instagram she’s been traveling I think she was in Rome last week. They’re not at Neblehorn. Wonder when they will start
Probably Skate America. They don't need to worry too hard about the depth of the field on either of their GPs, lol.
 

Spiralgraph

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I was wondering about that too! I know he's coaching at WASA, but I didn't realize he had a new partner.

Danny O'Shea has a new partner? I'm happy about that. Can someone confirm this please? Enquiring minds like mine want to know!
 

Karen-W

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Why are E/B medal contenders and H/K who had the better SP not? There is a bunch of pairs in Europe that could win a medal or not.
H/K have had a rough go of it the past couple seasons and today was a big step up for them in terms of delivering on their potential. If E/B and H/K both skate like this (or better) at Euros, then I firmly believe they'll be on the podium ahead of pretty much every other team save Safina/Berulava. Elements and skating skills put them ahead of teams from pretty much every other country except the Georgians.
There's also Metelkina/Parkman who could be competitive with them, since since Georgia has 2 spots for Euros.
Yes, I think, sans the Russians, there are 5 teams contending for the Euros podium - Safina/Berulava, Hocke/Kunkel, Metelkina/Parkman, Efimova/Blommaert, and Ghilardi/Ambrosini. Presuming they all go clean, I think they probably score in the same 69-71 point range in the SP. I think G/A are a bit behind the other four, just on pure skating skills and technique, but it's going to be really interesting to see play out at Euros with the podium wide open.

We're going to have to wait until the GP to see the leading 4CCs teams (Knierim/Frazier, Peng/Jin, and Miura/Kihara) make their debut, which is a shame, because I'd love to see how these leading Euros teams stack up. It does feel like the Worlds top 10 is going to consist of these 8 teams plus Stellato-Dudek/Deschamps and who gets that lucky #10 spot (McIntosh/Mimar, Chan/Howe, or Smirnova/Siianystia would be my guess - especially since Italy can only send 1 team to Worlds this season).
 

Hedwig

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Maybe Baquero/Zandron are allowed to skate as well? They would be possible for Euro medal as well.
I have not been able to find out for how long they are disqualified
 

Karen-W

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Maybe Baquero/Zandron are allowed to skate as well? They would be possible for Euro medal as well.
I have not been able to find out for how long they are disqualified
My guess is that Barquero's suspension is probably a year, which would mean they won't be back until Worlds.

Conti/Macii definitely stepped it up today and have put themselves in the mix for Euros Top 5.
 

PRlady

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The Russian pairs are going to discover what retired politicians and Hollywood has-been already know. You think you’re the best and irreplaceable and suddenly the world goes on without you. Particularly the Russian juniors who have done so many partner switches, I already have no idea who their new stars could be.
 

Karen-W

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S-D/D face off against Knierim / Frazier at Skate America. K/F are WORLD Champions. Does being Canadian champion get a bigger bump than WC?
I didn't say that S-D/D would beat K/F. And I didn't say that S-D/D would hit 200+ total score at SkAm, but that I expect their scores will rise as the season progresses. Furthermore, I said that the pairs podium at 4CCs is not as clear cut as one might think - meaning, it isn't a given that it will be KniFraz, PengJin and MiuKih in some order. If one or more of those teams falter, what I'm seeing from SDDes at this point in the season, is an ability to contend with those other three teams by the time 4CCs rolls around in another 4.5 months.

I like KniFraz as much as the next US pairs fan and they are certainly talented, but Worlds was the exception to the rule when it comes to their consistency on SBS jumps. Same with PengJin, and MiuKih are coming back from her ankle injury earlier this summer. All in all, it's fair to anticipate SDDes will get a PCS/GOE bump as the top Canadian team, especially if they're Canadian champs by the time 4CCs rolls around. That bump should be enough, I believe, to make them competitive with the other three teams and able to capitalize should any of those teams falter.

Frankly, this weekend has made me feel a lot better about the condition of the discipline, worldwide, than I was feeling a couple weeks ago. We have five teams who weren't even at Worlds last year who have scored 180+ and a sixth team that isn't that far off with nearly 178 in the first two Challengers (SDDes, GhiAmb, EfiBlom, HocKun, ChanHowe, ConMac), without appearances yet from KniFraz, MiuKih, SafBeru, and Barquero/Zandron out indefinitely (hopefully back by Worlds). Just for reference - sixth place at Worlds last year scored 176.02 - and SDDes' score today would have been good enough for FOURTH at Worlds last March.

Additionally, the 8th place team at Worlds last year (Kovalevs) scored 153.73 and there are three more teams that have scored higher than that already between US Classic & Nebelhorn, by a considerable margin (PlazFer, MetPark, & Mokhovs). Even with the improvement already for the Kovs (nearly 4 points better today than in Montpellier), they're going to have to keep improving if they hope to make top 10 in Saitama next March.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Holy moly

I’d like to invoke the Angela Nikodinov transformation award to Deanna and Maxime

I mean, holy moly. They look so different. And that last lift in the free program was gangbusters, And so many elements in that last lift they threw the kitchen sink into that last lift. It reminded me of the Japanese team, reminded me of Caitlin and John reminded me of Isabelle and Lloyd, there were so many elements inside that last lift even Megan and Eric.

I can’t believe they were Canada’s like fourth ranked team last year, they were phenomenal
 

skatfan

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Holy moly

I’d like to invoke the Angela Nikodinov transformation award to Deanna and Maxime

I mean, holy moly. They look so different. And that last lift in the free program was gangbusters, And so many elements in that last lift they threw the kitchen sink into that last lift. It reminded me of the Japanese team, reminded me of Caitlin and John reminded me of Isabelle and Lloyd, there were so many elements inside that last lift even Megan and Eric.

I can’t believe they were Canada’s like fourth ranked team last year, they were phenomenal
The last big lift was jaw dropping, then the lift that turns into a pair spin I havent seen before. Terrific ending!
 

Karen-W

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Looks like Schaller/Mayr are training in Salzburg with Severin Kiefer. The rink had special guests training with them for the week - junior pairs team of Linda De Nardin/Patrizio Romano Rossi.


@Sylvia - got any info on the new junior pairs team?
 

antmanb

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The last big lift was jaw dropping, then the lift that turns into a pair spin I havent seen before. Terrific ending!
And finishing the pair spin in the non dominant direction is unusual, the pairs usually do the non dominant spin first.
 

Sylvia

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Any news about when Alexa and Brandon will start their season?
Brandon Frazier recently posted a clip from their SP to Journey's "Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)" and a throw 3Lo (captioned "With exactly a month away from our season opener we have been hard at work… can’t wait to get it all started at Skate America 🇺🇸 #notdoneyet"): https://www.instagram.com/p/Ci2nSDfOsPt/
... The rink had special guests training with them for the week - junior pairs team of Linda De Nardin/Patrizio Romano Rossi.

@Sylvia - got any info on the new junior pairs team?
Here's an ISU bio for Spain's Patrizio Romano ROSSI LOPEZ, now 19: http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00107650.htm
I found Italy's Linda De Nardin's date of birth online - Dec. 16, 2008 - so she is 13.
Since "young.goose.academy.official" and l "hieloespanol" were both tagged in the photo, looks like they train in Egna, Italy and plan to represent Spain?
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Brandon Frazier recently posted a clip from their SP to Journey's "Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)" and a throw 3Lo (captioned "With exactly a month away from our season opener we have been hard at work… can’t wait to get it all started at Skate America 🇺🇸 #notdoneyet"):

I saw this the other day and I could not be more pleased with this music choice. This is my favorite song by Journey
 

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