ISU to evaluate feasibility of 2020-21 skating season
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MacMadame
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I remember when the GPF came into being. It was during the era of the Pro Cheesefest and for a while the GPF was more cheesy than a "real" comp. I definitely poo-poohed it and thought it was stupid. And it seemed like skaters definitely treated it as optional.
But there isn't a professional competition circuit anymore, the ISU has stopped playing with the format so that it's a straight competition and skaters take it seriously now.
So I think canceling it would be a big deal but if the first 2-3 GP events get canceled, I'm not sure the ISU will have much of a choice. I guess we'll see.
But there isn't a professional competition circuit anymore, the ISU has stopped playing with the format so that it's a straight competition and skaters take it seriously now.
So I think canceling it would be a big deal but if the first 2-3 GP events get canceled, I'm not sure the ISU will have much of a choice. I guess we'll see.
Orm Irian
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Mate, do you remember the days of the AIDS epidemic and the 'million beds' ad campaign? When there's disease involved, no choice you make affects only you. Essentially, you're demanding that others accept being forcibly exposed to risk for your own convenience. It's going to work about as well for you as it did for Gladys Berejiklian a couple of days ago.
Quite apart from the arrant snobbery of that 'any other civilisation' comment - which Pacific Island nations do you believe count as 'uncivilised'? - you keep harping on this idea that distance protects even when all the evidence is that you're wrong. Restricting the flow of new people and therefore new cases into an area early, and maintaining it for as long as necessary, is effective in preventing the spread of the virus. Early intervention via social distancing and promotion of basic hygiene is effective. Testing, tracking and isolating cases is effective. Ensuring a stable and adequate health system is in place is effective.
With the exception of the last thanks to the impact of their many years of austerity - in fact, because they knew they didn't have the last - Greece did all of those things and has had an amazing success rate against the same virus raging through the rest of Western Europe. While right next door to them.
DO NOT demand that the people who have done the hard yards, followed the science, and got things under control in their local areas take on an unnecessary extra burden of risk just because your government was either too incompetent, too lazy or too arrogant to do likewise and you lack the self-discipline do what you can do to help on your own.
Lack of planning on your part does, in this case, constitute an emergency on my part unless you get your act together and control yourself.
I know all this will go in one of your ears and out the other, so this is the last time I'll engage with anything you say, but I had to say it once. In the words of the recent Tumblr meme, I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people.
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Miezekatze
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The "skaters should decide for themselves" idea is quite a childish thought, especially coming from someone who tends to think so much in economical ways usually.
Skaters can't attend international competitions that don't exist. And organizations can't hold events, if they have no certainty of financial planing at all. Some cities here have already cancelled christmas markets and the biggest carnival federation in Germany has suggested all their members to cancel the 2020/2021 season (outdoor parades and indoor events) completely (which runs from November 2020 till March 2021) for the reason that all the invest would be lost if the events can't be hold. I think for most events trying it and losing the money is financially much worse than sitting out one season completely.
The only sport that is already running competitions withouth spectators again and having some plans for one larger local event in November is equestrian show jumping events, but I think there's tons more money behind that sport in Germany than in skating. And they are also FAR from anyone doing something that's international.
So I think any international season will be very shortened and I don't see much happening in fall.
Skaters can't attend international competitions that don't exist. And organizations can't hold events, if they have no certainty of financial planing at all. Some cities here have already cancelled christmas markets and the biggest carnival federation in Germany has suggested all their members to cancel the 2020/2021 season (outdoor parades and indoor events) completely (which runs from November 2020 till March 2021) for the reason that all the invest would be lost if the events can't be hold. I think for most events trying it and losing the money is financially much worse than sitting out one season completely.
The only sport that is already running competitions withouth spectators again and having some plans for one larger local event in November is equestrian show jumping events, but I think there's tons more money behind that sport in Germany than in skating. And they are also FAR from anyone doing something that's international.
So I think any international season will be very shortened and I don't see much happening in fall.
J
Jeschke
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Well, Bundesliga is on again in soccer and Basketball Bundesliga got it 'go' yesterday.
Little tennis tournament was running already weeks ago (indoors).
Miezekatze
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Yeah but the major league players are practically "quarantined" in a hotel until the end of this season and running constant tests on all players regularily, afaik for Basketball they're going to use the same system.
I don't see that as a solution for any league/sport for a new season that runs from like September 2020 till March 2021 unlike all athletes and coaches would agree to never see their family, friends, kids for 8 months in a row AND it's also not really workable for combination with international travel. It's obviously an emergency solution to finish the seasons that were already nearly finished, but I'm sure the Bundesliga will come up with new solutions for 2020/2021. Plus again there's a little bit
more money behind that sport than behind skating.I singled out equestrian, because it's started competitions that don't require athletes to get tested or quarantine in order to attend those competitions.
J
Jeschke
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I got the point and of course equestrian makes more sense to compare with FS than the ones mentioned by me (and I agree on the fact that still this might be totally different to FS based on the money in equestrian.)
I just wanted to state the correct facts. Teacher habit
D
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The same is true of flu, of driving a car, of getting on an airplane, etc., etc.
And they've opened their borders to all of Europe and even the USA.
The only one demanding things are the "cower in place" crowd, who are following fear and not science or data. How about you make your personal choices, allow others to make theirs, and stop advocating that everything be cancelled for everyone because you or your country doesn't feel comfortable?
I'm sure my message will also go in one ear and out the other, but I ask those who continue this "shut everything down because of ME" to look in the mirror and ask themselves if they care about other people. In my opinion, you do not.
missing
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It's a good thing for all concerned that I have more than 2 ears.
It could well be there are people who feel "shut everything down because of ME" just as there could well be people who feel "open everything up because of ME." Because of ME is a very powerful force in just about everyone's lives. Even secular and sectarian saints must feel that way on occasion.
But my guess is most people feel like they're part of a greater society, whether it's family or friends or religion or political identification or sports fandom or school affiliation or local, state or national citizenship. ME can easily become US and US can include wide swaths of THEM.
I don't want to be murdered by a serial killer. Catch and imprison serial killers for ME. But I'm also aware while I'm not in the serial killer victim demographic, other people are, and I don't want them to be murdered even if I've never met them. Catch and imprison serial killers for THEM, and I'll help pay the cost with my taxes.
The reason things are so difficult now is because of the uncertainty. I think school is immensely important for children. Open the schools for THEM and I'll absorb the risks. But it turns out children can get CV19 and be very ill and possibly die from it. Keep the schools closed for THEM, because they shouldn't absorb the risks.
As best I can tell, we're all being offered lots and lots of options and we have little way of knowing if they're good or bad choices. So every argument is right and every argument is wrong and we have to define for ourselves what is ME and what is US/THEM.
You are welcome to a couple of my extra ears. The lower right one by my chin is especially cute.
overedge
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You keep saying that the "cower in place crowd" are not following science. This is simply not true. Science is very clear that people with compromised immune systems are more vulnerable to infections and v*r*ses, as are the elderly, people regularly exposed to unsafe/unclean environments, and people already experiencing chronic stress. If someone is more likely to catch the v*r*s, they are making a science-informed decision to stay home.
Also, fear is not a weakness. It's a sensible response to danger. It's smart to be afraid of a v*r*s that can be transmitted by someone showing no symptoms, can be transmitted not only by direct contact but through being airborne, and that can kill you in extremely nasty and very painful ways. Being afraid of that is not being stupid.
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vesperholly
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The language for Regionals sounded very positive to me. October is a ways away.
"For those planning to compete within the qualifying structure, the traditional registration is scheduled to open on July 15 for the Regional challenges in October and the respective Finals in November. We look forward to seeing you this fall and are focused on doing everything in our power to ensure the qualifying competition season events will be ready for you to compete!"
2021 U.S. Figure Skating Qualifying Season Update | U.S. Figure Skating
www.usfigureskating.org
I read that, too. I hope it will be safe and feasible to have a qual season, but given that most skaters aren't back on the ice yet and may not be for several more months (depending on state), and with all the uncertainties of what October will look like, it may not be possible. We'll have to see how things unfold. Right now, USFS has no choice but to be optimistic, just like they've been in each update and just like my club was when we were still hoping our comp in June could be held.
Around here we don't expect most of the arenas to put ice back in until hockey has started back up yet. Figure skating ice time won't pay the bills.. at least not outside of a figure skating training centre
misskarne
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Actually, the ones demanding things are the same group of people that literally murder security guards, attempt coups at government buildings with armed terrorists, and literally don't care how many people die, all in the name of FREEDUMB!
You say we're "cowering in place" (did you say the same of those who had to shelter in place while the bushfires raged over them, too?), and yet you're cooped up in your nice little apartment with your well-paying job that can be done from home, all stayed up, while you squeal about FREEDUMB!
Filthy hypocrite.
Aussie Willy
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But it is not about YOU. And YOU seem to be in the minority.
It is about everyone else around YOU and showing consideration for OTHERS.
And those of US who are doing the right thing has nothing to do with fear but practising commonsense and realising that restrictions may prevent OTHERS from getting sick or US getting sick.
I would much rather our sport be put on hold than risking spreading a nasty little bug that doesn't care about YOU and ME and OTHERS because the consequences are pretty horrible.
shutterbug
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I expect this will largely be the case across Canada as well.Around here we don't expect most of the arenas to put ice back in until hockey has started back up yet. Figure skating ice time won't pay the bills.. at least not outside of a figure skating training centre
DreamSkates
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Equestrian jumping is an individual event, so it would be easy to keep riders away from each other. Horses are stabled with distance between stalls, and some event places have many extra stalls so can space things out. Will these events be televised?I got the point and of course equestrian makes more sense to compare with FS than the ones mentioned by me (and I agree on the fact that still this might be totally different to FS based on the money in equestrian.)
I just wanted to state the correct facts. Teacher habit
DreamSkates
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Following science, we have been well-informed by many reliable sources that this v.... is highly contagious through droplets that we expel when we breathe, talk, cough, etc. So when a person makes "a personal choice" to say, not wear a mask in public, this person could be asymptomatic (also based on science) and infect others who could become very ill or die. So, whose freedom is being taken by those who demand freedom rather than respecting the health of others?
Vagabond
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Is anyone actually expecting to persuade Louis by arguing with him? 
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aftershocks
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That's an optimistic timeline from what I read in a recent New York Times news summary. More human trials are needed, which takes time. From past experience, medical researchers and health professionals do not want to rush a vaccine that could end up doing more harm than good.
More Coronavirus Vaccines and Treatments Move Toward Human Trials (Published 2020)
Just three months after the start of the coronavirus pandemic, several biotech companies are beginning trials of promising vaccines and treatments.
The Danger of Rushing Through Clinical Trials During the Coronavirus Pandemic
An epidemiologist and expert on clinical trials discusses what makes a good trial, why a pandemic is not the time to speed up the drug-approval process, and the most important fixes for our health-care system.
MacMadame
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It's still a timeline and not "no vaccine ever"
I see Louis' side in his arguments, and I see a lot of the same opinion here in Miami. People are simply tired of having their typically extroverted lives 'taken away' and feel like they've done their duty long enough. I think a lot of the US is starting to feel that way. There are people who were preaching non-stop on social media to stay home and/or wear a mask everywhere, but in the last few weeks they've gotten tired of it and are in IG stories partying on boats or in houses with others. Or just simply not caring anymore.
Working in the business that I do, which is dealing with hundreds of people a night in very, very close quarters- I personally don't want things to be opened yet. I don't want to return to work to be at 50% capacity with people still acting like idiots and generally disregarding any rules. And that's probably the same view for the majority of people who have been acting responsibly during these stay-at-home orders and would have to go back to that kind of environment.
One of my co-workers has been on Facebook posting almost the exact opposite of what I've been saying, repeatedly talking about freedoms being taken away and since he's so healthy and fit he's not at risk, etc. I've said this a million times regarding other topics, but I think it applies just as well here- some people just do not comprehend or allow themselves to take in any information outside what they 'know' in their own bubble. The bubble here is that they haven't been infected and think they won't be, or they know they can be but still don't see how it's not worth the risk, even if it puts other high-risk individuals in danger.
But going back to my work and the work of a lot of people who are currently out of a job-- said bubble people are not only asking for their own 'freedoms' back or whatever they want to call it, but they are also assuming that everyone else is going to make wise decisions and act responsibly if some leeway is given to get back to normal life. But sorry to tell you, MANY people are flat-out idiots.
Working in the business that I do, which is dealing with hundreds of people a night in very, very close quarters- I personally don't want things to be opened yet. I don't want to return to work to be at 50% capacity with people still acting like idiots and generally disregarding any rules. And that's probably the same view for the majority of people who have been acting responsibly during these stay-at-home orders and would have to go back to that kind of environment.
One of my co-workers has been on Facebook posting almost the exact opposite of what I've been saying, repeatedly talking about freedoms being taken away and since he's so healthy and fit he's not at risk, etc. I've said this a million times regarding other topics, but I think it applies just as well here- some people just do not comprehend or allow themselves to take in any information outside what they 'know' in their own bubble. The bubble here is that they haven't been infected and think they won't be, or they know they can be but still don't see how it's not worth the risk, even if it puts other high-risk individuals in danger.
But going back to my work and the work of a lot of people who are currently out of a job-- said bubble people are not only asking for their own 'freedoms' back or whatever they want to call it, but they are also assuming that everyone else is going to make wise decisions and act responsibly if some leeway is given to get back to normal life. But sorry to tell you, MANY people are flat-out idiots.
aftershocks
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Right. I was just passing on what I read for more specifics. Of course researchers and medical professionals would like to foster optimism, but obviously with precaution. It pays to at least try to understand some of the complexities involved, which might help to temper blanket statements on all sides.
MacMadame
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I saw a meme that pointed out that people poop in dressing rooms and these are the same peopel we expect to wear masks.
Japanfan
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The shutdowns have aimed to protect society at large. They are for the collective good, not any particular individual. We are already seeing plants shutdown after reopening due to COVID.
greenapple
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People whining that their rights and freedoms have been trampled on by being forced to/asked to stay home are just plain stupid. What about the rights and freedoms of the innocent people who have been infected by the dumb ones that no longer have a voice?
misskarne
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Is anyone actually expecting to persuade Louis by arguing with him?
No, but I have read that it is always best to speak out against ignorance, because even though the ignorant person you speak against might be too pigheaded to accept what you're saying, those silently observing the argument may yet be persuaded to listen, rather than just letting the ignorant person bray loudly at them.
Yuri
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All the sheep bleating "Four Legs Good, Louis Bad" are drowning out any hope of a rational discussion of the 2020-21 ISU season. Some of you guys make Winston Smith look like Oceania's most eternal optimist...that's undoubleplusgood!
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D
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Is anyone actually expecting to persuade Louis by arguing with him?
I am persuadable, but not with the name-calling, foul language, and ridiculousness on this thread. (Those accusing others of being pigheaded, etc. should look in the mirror.) If we saw huge outbreaks in places that have reopened or never closed, maybe I'd think differently. If air travel weren't already returning in Europe, maybe I'd think differently. If professional sports leagues in the U.S. weren't making plans to resume, maybe I'd think differently. We have every reason to believe a skating season could happen in some form. It may require modifications. International competitions may not include every country, as some will decide not to participate. But I don't believe we have to cancel everything.
The nightclub industry is going to be the last to return pretty much everywhere in the world. I'm not aware of anyone in the "open up" camp who thinks otherwise. I think you're absolutely right that this environment presents unique risks that would be very hard to control, though I'm open to ideas. With strict crowd control, bottle service at tables spaced far apart, etc., maybe it could be done and be a more premium experience while ensuring safety of the staff.
Skating is the opposite of that. One skater on the ice, or two who are in a clear "bubble." We can leave hockey glass up. For years, people have argued that judges should sit at different points of the rink - great, now's our chance to try! We can quarantine skaters in hotels, maybe even skaters from the same country on a specific floor. The risk is manageable. This is so easy compared to other sports. I'm not sure why people are so defeatist about a skating season.
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