U.S. Ice Dance 2019-20 season news & updates

[Frau Muller]

Another article about Hawayek/Baker.

Hawayek and Baker Embrace New Season with “Winning Mentality” - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

Last season, U.S. ice dancers Kaitlin Hawayek and Jean-Luc Baker posted the best results of their senior career. They won their first gold medal at a Grand Prix

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

They may have the "winning mentality" but that crazy FD of Marie Antoinette doing flamenco with 'the commoner" has got to go! Who dreamt up with that loco concept...or does it come from some Monty Python movie? From the article, it sounds as if they tested it out at Champs Camp and Nebelhorn ahead of time.

Newsflash! Marie Antoinette did not live in the Victorian era! Even Tanith, in her TV commentary, mentioned something about "Victorian" style. Huh???

On the other hand, the Saturday Night Fever RD is a winner.

 

[Wyliefan]

And Beethoven was not a Victorian!

 

[I❤️Marina&Sergai]

They may have the "winning mentality" but that crazy FD of Marie Antoinette doing flamenco with 'the commoner" has got to go! Who dreamt up with that loco concept...or does it come from some Monty Python movie? From the article, it sounds as if they tested it out at Champs Camp and Nebelhorn ahead of time.

Newsflash! Marie Antoinette did not live in the Victorian era! Even Tanith, in her TV commentary, mentioned something about "Victorian" style. Huh???

On the other hand, the Saturday Night Fever RD is a winner.

I agree I think the RD is really enjoyable and showcases each of them. I find the FD, mainly because of the score really hard to engage with. I feel if it was lightened up a bit (am not sure how maybe a little more humour) the concept would be easier to get.

 

[Frau Muller]

I agree I think the RD is really enjoyable and showcases each of them. I find the FD, mainly because of the score really hard to engage with. I feel if it was lightened up a bit (am not sure how maybe a little more humour) the concept would be easier to get.

Right...and I should have mentioned that the costumes aren’t particularly flattering. Flamenco skirts are tricky to design for skating (heavy quality usually). And the little bows.

 

[Dobre]

H/D are getting so much flack for not doing a warm up event but this isn't an unprecedented choice for a non-P/C team. Shibs didn't for their last 2 seasons, and it didn't turn out to be a problem. Now if the Shibs had skipped the previous season, they might have been in a lot trouble because they lost to both Gilles/Poirier and Coomes/Buckland at Nepala and then revamped their FD. But even after that they still decided to skip the warm ups the following seasons.

H&D aren't the Shibs.

Plenty of us were worried about the Shibs taking off those CS seasons too, as one will definitely see if they go digging through the Shibs' fan thread archives.

H&D had two back-to-back GP events scheduled which meant no time to respond to the feedback they received in their first event. This is quite unusual. (Though when you are #3, you often get a tough draw in one form or another).

I do think it was a mistake to skip the CS series. H&D almost always get tough feedback at the U.S. Classic, and despite the fact that people are usually bemoaning the low scores there, the top teams there usually respond to that feedback well.

I still think it is smart to do a CS (and not everyone has dibs on a home one).

Several years ago (2015-16), I argued that skipping the preseason was a major flaw in the Russian ice-dance strategy at the time. The following season that strategy changed, and the Russian dance results since then have greatly improved.

Everyone has to decide what strategy works best for them. But I do think there is a LOT of value in getting one's program out there and learning from the experience.

I don't see any point in "flack;" but I also think it's a good idea for dance teams in general to note when another strategy serves a lot of teams well.

H&D responded to feedback every time they skated last season. I assume it is exactly what they plan to do now.

 

[jmtfti]

And Beethoven was not a Victorian!

To be honest, every one of these anachronistic program explanations has been a personal struggle for me.

 

[laviemn]

H&D aren't the Shibs.

The Shibs had enough programs that weren't immediately embraced by the judges that skipping was as much of a risk for them as it is for H/D this season. It doesn't seem like a bad decision now because of the medals they won at the end of those seasons. If things had gone a different way? Bad decision.

H/D should have reconsidered when they found out they had a back to back, but that can't be helped now. We'll see if they can scrap their way back from this setback.

 

[Dobre]

So I discovered that the Wheaton Ice Skating Academy (WISA) has a new website:

https://new.wisa.us/

Thank you, Sylvia.

Jordan Lin is listed as a solo skater, and Morgan Sletten is off the list.

 

[mollymgr]

They may have the "winning mentality" but that crazy FD of Marie Antoinette doing flamenco with 'the commoner" has got to go! Who dreamt up with that loco concept...or does it come from some Monty Python movie? From the article, it sounds as if they tested it out at Champs Camp and Nebelhorn ahead of time.

Newsflash! Marie Antoinette did not live in the Victorian era! Even Tanith, in her TV commentary, mentioned something about "Victorian" style. Huh???

Seriously!!! Flamenco, Marie Antoinette, Victorian and Beethoven- None of these things have anything in common. It looks like Beethoven went to Hollywood or a tour around Europe.

 

[layman]

I don't really care that the concept may be full of anachronisms (aren't most skating programs full of anachronisms?), but I do think the reason that the Free is not scoring above lesser teams (with much simpler content) comes down to a lack of speed. Hawayek and Baker need speed, speed and more speed (then I think their scores will rise).

 

[layman]

I think Hubbell and Donahue are in trouble. The judges are trying to dump them, the same way they tried to dump the Shibutanis (or Bourne/Kraatz for that matter). The Shibs went through many seasons in the wilderness but they persevered.

One thing that the Shibs had going for them is that they were almost always perfect...always in unison...always skating with matching lines and close connections (hip to hip), with great speed and precision (they rarely made technical errors) even when the judges were being stingy with their scores.

These are things that Hubbell and Donahue need to work on. They tend to make silly errors and can appear ragged and out of unison sometimes. They give away too many points (in a sport where every point matters).

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Magical..

Madison CHOCK & Evan BATES USA Free Dance 2019 Internationaux de France

Madison CHOCK & Evan BATES USA Free Dance 2019 Internationaux de France

www.youtube.com

 

[Sylvia]

The Wheaton Ice Arena in Maryland is organizing a fundraising event at Rockville (Maryland) Ice Arena on Saturday, November 2, 2019 from 12:30 to 2 pm with all proceeds given to the Shalin family. WISA skaters & guests will perform to support Nick’s Fight. You can buy tickets online or at door (poster PDF): https://new.wisa.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Skate-For-Nicka-Fight-2019_web.pdf

Local TV news story featuring Lorraine McNamara speaking on camera and brief clips of the WISA teams performing on the ice: https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/...ancer/65-4059b541-4f0f-40a7-9e0b-f3b05da531c0

 

[Sylvia]

NBC has uploaded Chock/Bates' 2nd place FD (124.15 is their ISU SB score) from Grenoble with no commentary:

Chock and Bates sizzle to second place with Grenoble free dance | NBC Sports

Evan Chock and Madison Bates glide their way through a memorable free dance en route to the silver medal in Grenoble, France #NBCSports #EvanChock #MadisonBa...

www.youtube.com

Carreira/Ponomarenko won the CS Asian Open FS Trophy gold medal this past weekend with an ISU SB total score of 191.55 (78.40 in RD also ISU SB; 113.15 in FD) - 3 photos on Christina's IG: https://www.instagram.com/p/B4ajiJyphkb/
Their RD video:

Christina CARREIRA & Anthony PONOMARENKO USA RD Asian Open Trophy

Christina CARREIRA & Anthony PONOMARENKO USA RD Asian Open Trophy

www.youtube.com

 

[blancanieves]

H/D made a big mistake not competing before the GP. If they had they perhaps would have known before SA and certainly SC what tweaks needed to be done with their programs. They aren't as accomplished as P/C that they could just wait until the GP season to start competing they needed some miles on their programs.

As a team becomes more successful there is a learning curve that needs to be worked out as you're experiencing it. Outside expectations shoot up, more pressure sets in, your season becomes longer.

Last year post Olympics and post World medal they hurried back to compete at US Classic with uninspired music and underdeveloped programs, and all the talk was about how much work those needed.

This year they had another long season, with post World WTT and SOI commitments. I don't think there was a win win choice to be made. Skip your home challenger and spend the time you have working on programs, or compete in mid September with less developed programs. Haguenauer was frank in saying it's bad form to debut a program if it isn't sufficiently far along, especially for top teams.

Well, IAM is compounding the problem too with their inability to vet the material adequately. After the music and storytelling problems with the R&J FD, why repeat the same approach this season? Film soundtrack? Check. Love story? Check. My understanding is that the FD music was Dubreuil's suggestion. Who is paying attention here?

 

[RoseRed]

Well, IAM is compounding the problem too with their inability to vet the material adequately. After the music and storytelling problems with the R&J FD, why repeat the same approach this season? Film soundtrack? Check. Love story? Check. My understanding is that the FD music was Dubreuil's suggestion. Who is paying attention here?

I thought Marie-France was skeptical about the music choice, saying it was "very American". I doubt she's the one who suggested it. I think it was Madi and Zach's idea.

 

[PRlady]

On the one hand I'm a big proponent of grownup skaters choosing their own music and story: if it doesn't work for them, it won't for the audience. V/M took a lot of crap for Moulin Rouge but they were committed to it and their FD at the Olys will live forever, it was that good.

But then you get H/D's lack of taste or discernment and P/C skating to really, really bad poetry. (I am not kidding, on Sunday I ordered a book of TS Eliot poems from Amazon to replace an old copy that got ruined in a fire. I don't think this is a coincidence.) And I don't know who picks SinKats' FDs but they are a blur of mediocrity. So maybe letting even the mature skaters have their way isn't such a good idea, I don't know....

 

[Rukia]

I thought Marie-France was skeptical about the music choice, saying it was "very American". I doubt she's the one who suggested it. I think it was Madi and Zach's idea.

This makes me laugh really hard, but also Tanith said something to the same effect (although I think she very diplomatically said it was very North American) during Skam. I guess we'll see if that really matters.

 

[blancanieves]

I thought Marie-France was skeptical about the music choice, saying it was "very American". I doubt she's the one who suggested it. I think it was Madi and Zach's idea.

Team USA article

They had seen the 2018 film starring Bradley Cooper and Lady Gaga, but had not considered it for free dance music; they typically prefer music that is more obscure than mainstream.

But then coach and choreographer Marie-France Dubreuil brought it to them.

“We were looking at all different options and she had a moment, saying, ‘I know you weren’t thinking of this, but for me this is music that you and Zach can embody so well; I don’t want to do just the ballad, I think you guys could pull off that kind of dance, Southern rock vibe, and if there’s a year to do it, it’s only this year,’” Hubbell recalled.

 

[aftershocks]

We'll see if they can scrap their way back from this setback.

DL of TSL has suggested that Dubreuil give Renee Roca a call to see if she can stop by Gadbois and consult with Madi & Evan.

 

[aftershocks]

... First, the costumes are gorgeous, but they are too glamorous for who the characters were. And second, they need to finish with 'I'll Never Love Again'. Telling the story without finishing it is anticlimactic. This would not only bring the audience closer to the dance, but it would also complete the story. Just my humble opinion. I would be willing to be that they change both come GPF.

These sound like good ideas. The observation regarding the costumes is particularly resonant if they are truly wanting to portray a flavor of those characters.

 

[clairecloutier]

Team USA article

Hubbell/Donohue also said at a Skate America press conference that Marie-France encouraged them to use this music & felt that the Southern rock style would suit them.

 

[manhn]

Maybe instead of the country song, they use the guitar solo where Gaga and her friend are being taken to the concert. Then Shallow. Then I Will Never Love Again, the Gaga version.

I don’t want to spoil the movie but there is a chance for Zachary to portray a character that not many male dancers or male pairs skaters get to display on ice.

 

[blancanieves]

Hubbell/Donohue also said at a Skate America press conference that Marie-France encouraged them to use this music & felt that the Southern rock style would suit them.

And I think the Southern rock style is not a bad idea. I question the choice to use another soundtrack, which inherently carries expectations of storytelling. There's millions of songs in that genre that they could have used to create freely without trying to shoehorn a story. Something that MF already knows was problematic last season.

They haven't been able to mix two tracks in a coherent way, adding additional ones will likely worsen the situation.

 

[Colonel Green]

I don't see what the issue with storytelling is. A Star is Born's story isn't anymore complicated than various other dance programs, and it was a popular film (based on several previous popular films that have been unofficially remade a bunch of other times).

Now, whether the current version of the FD is optimized for telling the story to the audience is a different matter. But the basics of the program suit Hubbell/Donohue perfectly fine, unlike, in my opinion the Romeo and Juliet concept.

 

[Sylvia]

Donohue stresses that the program doesn't aim to simply retell the film's story.

"We're not really trying to recreate a shorter version of the movie," he said. "It's more about taking certain aspects we feel are authentic to who we are and that really stand out strongest, and wrapping the program around that."

The above quote was from this H/D article that was published before Skate America: https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/news/2019/10/19/rinkside-hubbell-and-donohue-hope-to-win-hearts-at-skate-america.aspx

This article was published after Skate Canada:

With a Spot Secured in December’s Grand Prix Final, Hubbell and Donohue Take a Break… Before Jumping Back In - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

It's week three of the Grand Prix season and two-time and reigning U.S. ice dance champions Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue are right where they want to be:

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

 

[Dobre]

A Star is Born is not more North American than Joni Mitchell, Justin Timberlake, Madonna, or Arthur Hamilton.

And what the blank is wrong with North American music? Music happens to be something the USA does very well. It is one of our most international & successful exports. Tanith's point, I believe, was a concern that the average audience from another country might not come to the music & story with the same background as a North American audience. But that is OK. It is just the skaters' & choreographer's job to tell that story in universal way, without relying on the audience's previous knowledge. (And of course, you do not have to literally tell the whole story--just its essence. Enough to make the audience feel something).

I personally don't love the story, but I think the story should work quite well for an ice dance program. It is . . .

A. A tragic & doomed love story, which has been the impetus of a plethora of winning ice dance programs, a multitude of them from Eastern Europe and many of them used by skaters in all three other disciplines from all around the World.

B. A classic that has stood the test of time. It has been made into four films. In 1937, 1954, 1976, and today. Starring some of the most powerful voices in the history of film: Judy Garland, Barbra Streisand, and now Lady Gaga.

C. It has been nominated for Academy Awards in three different decades, won Academy Awards, and won even more Golden Globes. (Which has been more than a good enough reason for quite a number of figure skating programs over--say--just the last year, much less the history of the sport).

As far as I can see, this story has all the ingredients required to appeal to a universal audience. The question is how to share it in a way that taps into that universality.

And it's a pretty huge challenge. I mean look who Hollywood has tapped to do it.

 

[blancanieves]

I don't see what the issue with storytelling is. A Star is Born's story isn't anymore complicated than various other dance programs, and it was a popular film (based on several previous popular films that have been unofficially remade a bunch of other times).

Now, whether the current version of the FD is optimized for telling the story to the audience is a different matter. But the basics of the program suit Hubbell/Donohue perfectly fine, unlike, in my opinion the Romeo and Juliet concept.

I take issue with using any approach, choosing soundtrack music in this case, that didn't work out well for you as recently as last season. I am not debating whether this film or storytelling in general can make good vehicles for skating programs.

Using a soundtrack didn't serve H/D well. They struggled with finding the right mix of songs and what to do with the story. So far this season they're in the same hole. The concept that Zach mentions, when watching the actual program, comes through as very scattered and confusing.

As a coach I would have suggested "regular" music (standalone pieces) to avoid any potential struggles like last season's.

 

[Blossom on Ice]

Kaitlin Hawayek/Jean-Luc Baker: “It’s not fun to be competitive in a negative way”

Kaitlin Hawayek/Jean-Luc Baker: “It’s not fun to be competitive in a negative way”

Photo by David W. Carmichael The ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating continues this Friday with the Shiseido Cup of China. The 2018 Four Continents champions, 2018 NHK Trophy champions, and 2019 U.S. …

www.blossomonice.com

 

[Colonel Green]

I take issue with using any approach, choosing soundtrack music in this case, that didn't work out well for you as recently as last season.

I don't think anybody thought the problem with R+J was that it was soundtrack music.