I, Tonya

[berthesghost]

He compared the "hit" to going hunting.

"At the time, you're not humanizing the person," he said. "You're just like, 'OK, this is kind of a job in what you're doing."

i never imagined I'd ever type these words, but thank you Shane Stant.

 

[Japanfan]

i never imagined I'd ever type these words, but thank you Shane Stant.

And good for him for speaking out so honestly, and taking accountability. $6000 plus was a lot of money in the 90s (still a lot today, in fact).

 

[LarrySK8]

My Holy Grail of videos would be Tonya at 1993 NHK - SP (7) and LP (4). Surya has her performances up on her YouTube channel, and there is a bit of Chen Lu, but no Tonya. A Japanese broadcast may have it somewhere - TH is wearing her 93 Nationals dress

 

[berthesghost]

I’d rather have lu chen’s 96-97 LP, but that’s just me

 

[meggonzo]

I had the Today show on this morning to see if Tonya would be on, but Tara was there to preview the Olympics. I'm assuming Tonya's appearances must have been cancelled after Rosenberg terminated the relationship. I don't care about interviews, i just wanted to see her skate! I had to go to work, so I missed Tara's segment.

 

[VGThuy]

For the skating performance they probably wanted to do a brief interview as well, and quite possibly The Today Show wouldn't budge about having "questions about the past" because that's really the only reason why Tonya is visible right now.

 

[Yazmeen]

For the skating performance they probably wanted to do a brief interview as well, and quite possibly The Today Show wouldn't budge about having "questions about the past" because that's really the only reason why Tonya is visible right now.

If Tonya insisted on her current demands, I can just imagine how quickly the TODAY show pulled the plug on having her appear.

I wonder how soon it will take her to realize that she's shot herself in the foot yet again. Or if she'll ever realize it. The word "stubborn" in Webster should have a picture of Tonya next to it. Good or bad, she defines it.

ETA: this article contain's Robbie's Critic's Choice speech, which was rather low key. She thanked the critics for "understanding our movie" and gave a shout-out to her costars/movie folks as "Team Tonya," but no mention of the real Tonya. Nor was Harding there. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...g/news-story/98dd87e4ad9576bb339155e1944a8365

 

[berthesghost]

She thanked the critics for "understanding our movie"

Good for them. I still don’t get the whole concept of a comedy about abuse. At one point tonya’s childhood full of abuse is summed up by a fast paced montage of lavona hitting, slapping, pushing and knocking over Tonya at various ages as a succession of growing actresses go “ow, ow, ouch, ow” like a sort of best-of slide show. It was far less “Mary Jane Harper cried last night” and far more “America’s funniest home videos”. Ew. This is what gets Oscar buzz these days?

 

[gkelly]

Good for them. I still don’t get the whole concept of a comedy about abuse.

Not the same thing at all, but there is a long history of comedy based on physical abuse going back at least to Roman times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slapstick
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch_and_Judy

We do also see movie comedies that play violence and injury for laughs.

None of that is what I, Tonya is doing.

It's more disturbing when the character being abused is sympathetic and/or the violence is portrayed realistically but still carries references to the violence-as-comedy tradition. Perhaps that kind of discomfort is what I, Tonya was aiming for.

 

[HSCluv]

My Holy Grail of videos would be Tonya at 1993 NHK - SP (7) and LP (4). Surya has her performances up on her YouTube channel, and there is a bit of Chen Lu, but no Tonya. A Japanese broadcast may have it somewhere - TH is wearing her 93 Nationals dress

Yes, I want to see that video! I think her 93 Skate America short program is one of the best ladies` shorts ever. Wish she had used that dress all season. Also, I would like to see even just a written record of her skating as a junior or novice. Seems like she could have easily been a junior national medalist and/or champion. Did she not ever compete in a regionals or sectionals on any level? I have never heard or seen any of this mentioned anywhere.

 

[casken]

ETA: this article contain's Robbie's Critic's Choice speech, which was rather low key. She thanked the critics for "understanding our movie" and gave a shout-out to her costars/movie folks as "Team Tonya," but no mention of the real Tonya. Nor was Harding there. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...g/news-story/98dd87e4ad9576bb339155e1944a8365

I've been kind of getting the impression, as the appearances and interviews along side Harding went further along, that Robbie was getting a bit of buyers remorse with Tonya. The most recent interview I saw with Robbie, she seemed to be backing off the "Tonya as victim" angle, for more of a "Tonya as a complex personality" angle, and a "Who knows what really happened?" take on it. Just my impression, though.

 

[skatesindreams]

Perhaps, Robbie is beginning to feel that she has been "used" to elicit sympathy.

I hope that Tonya's latest "15 minutes" will soon be ending.
I don't expect it to happen until after the Academy Awards.

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe she's downplaying it because she's trying to win an Oscar and the mainstream reaction to Tonya has been mixed-to-negative to say the least since the Golden Globes all the way to that two hour ABC special. Allison Janney has had some things written about her for her GG speech where some thought she was praising Tonya as an American hero, and I think Robbie is learning from it. Had people been wholly receptive of Tonya and their attempted redemption arc, then she for sure would be touting Tonya up.

 

[Yazmeen]

Maybe she's downplaying it because she's trying to win an Oscar and the mainstream reaction to Tonya has been mixed-to-negative to say the least since the Golden Globes all the way to that two hour ABC special. Allison Janney has had some things written about her for her GG speech where some thought she was praising Tonya as an American hero, and I think Robbie is learning from it. Had people been wholly receptive of Tonya and their attempted redemption arc, then she for sure would be touting Tonya up.

And Tonya hasn't helped the situation with her sudden admission of knowing something beforehand, which doesn't jive with her previous statements. Or the movie.

Spoiler: Again, "The Incident"

And now the movie which claimed that Shawn engineered the "whack" without telling Jeff and Tonya now has been further complicated by the new interviews with Shane Stant saying Jeff was part of the plot to injure her as has always been believed.

I think the cast and crew, while defending their story, are beginning to see that holding Tonya up as a victim and showing her off at award shows may not be the best move. Negativity affects people's perceptions, even with a really good film. Um, anyone remember Eddie Murphy and "Norbit" when he appeared absolutely on his way to an Oscar for "Dreamgirls" after winning the Globe and SAG among other awards? You don't put negativity in the minds of Oscar voters before they mark those ballots. "Norbit" handed Alan Arkin an Oscar.

 

[Inessence]

Shane also said the movie was pretty "accurate" which stunned me. You'd think he would be screaming from the rooftops that Gillooly wanted Kerrigan "hit" not just "threatened". Unless he meant it was him, Shawn, and Derrick only at the meeting? I'll have to take another listen.

Robbie already learned early on of a potential backlash when she said she was "behind Tonya 100%" and got called out on GMA. So I don't think she's backing down. The main criticism of TH at the GG is the#metoo movement, which I think is being stretched a bit thin to include "The Incident." I thought it was about "Rape Culture" and sexual harassment in the workplace? Whatever.

 

[berthesghost]

Not the same thing at all, but there is a long history of comedy based on physical abuse going back at least to Roman times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slapstick
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch_and_Judy

We do also see movie comedies that play violence and injury for laughs.

None of that is what I, Tonya is doing.

It's more disturbing when the character being abused is sympathetic and/or the violence is portrayed realistically but still carries references to the violence-as-comedy tradition. Perhaps that kind of discomfort is what I, Tonya was aiming for.

i think there are comedies like “shameless” that take a funny but sympathetic look at life’s hardships but those farces are generally about fictional characters. It’s rare to see a celebrity biopic that’s a comedy. That little girl we see being slapped for laughs is a depiction of a real life person we’ve “known” for years. It’s all so weird.

 

[VGThuy]

People laugh at child abuse as portrayed in Mommie Dearest. I’m sure I, Tonya was partially inspired by that one.

 

[Aerobicidal]

People laugh at child abuse as portrayed in Mommie Dearest. I’m sure I, Tonya was partially inspired by that one.

Mommie Dearest is so over-the-top camp throughout the whole movie, though, and while I think there are elements of I, Tonya that are intended to be camp (raising the point whether intentional camp can ever work, which is a valid question I'll leave to others), it is clearly intended to be a good "straight" movie as well. That's why I agree with @berthesghost and, when I was watching the movie, thought a lot about whether it's okay (whatever that means) for a movie to try to be a slapstick comedy and a serious, "meaningful" movie with realistic depictions of abuse.

My answer: I don't know, but it sure didn't work for me in I, Tonya. And the more I think about it, the sadder it is that Tonya herself is trying to capitalize on a movie that portrays her as a giant punchline, especially because that's pretty much what she was in mainstream culture.

 

[VGThuy]

It sounds like there's a real issue with the consistency of the tone of the film. I think mood dissonance can be really effective, but often times it fails.

 

[casken]

Maybe she's downplaying it because she's trying to win an Oscar and the mainstream reaction to Tonya has been mixed-to-negative to say the least since the Golden Globes all the way to that two hour ABC special.

I think the cast and crew, while defending their story, are beginning to see that holding Tonya up as a victim and showing her off at award shows may not be the best move. Negativity affects people's perceptions, even with a really good film. Um, anyone remember Eddie Murphy and "Norbit" when he appeared absolutely on his way to an Oscar for "Dreamgirls" after winning the Globe and SAG among other awards? You don't put negativity in the minds of Oscar voters before they mark those ballots. "Norbit" handed Alan Arkin an Oscar.

Yes. Basically what I was trying to say with "Buyer's remorse".

 

[berthesghost]

People laugh at child abuse as portrayed in Mommie Dearest. I’m sure I, Tonya was partially inspired by that one.

Interesting comparison.

Iirc MD was made as a serious film and only became a camp classic because it was so OTT melodramatic. IT is a self-professed comedy.

But the book did seem to spawn a whole revenge memoire genre, which IT definitely follows as based on tonya’s version of events only and the film makers couldn’t even be arsed to look lavona up in the phone book. The lack of character prep actually sullies janey’s portrayal a bit imo. Although lavana’s not a celebrity so no one’s rushing to her defense like they did Crawford. It’s a bit sad, as Robbie eat al are just more people screwing lavona over for personal gain, even if she was horrible.

 

[Inessence]

They took Tonya and Jeff's perception of Lavonna, plus whatever interviews she (Lavona) gave that's available publicly. Same with her coach, Diane.

 

[MR-FAN]

saw the movie, loved it

It was funny, uncomfortable, sad and hopeful, and featured incredible performances all-around. I've always loved Margot, but DAMN!! and Allison is a Queen, but DAMN!!!

I wish there was more skating though , and would it have killed them to mention Midori Ito even once?!?

 

[bardtoob]

The Oscar and Olympic seasons will be over soon enough.

Besides, if they wrap up the story of Tonya too much then they won't be able to use her again in four years.

 

[Japanfan]

I wish there was more skating though , and would it have killed them to mention Midori Ito even once?!?

The movie was about Tonya the person, not Tonya the skater, and emphasized the issue of class and the struggle faced by a person who didn't fit the norms and ideals of the world she lived in.

If the movie had more of a focus on skating, it would have had more narrow appeal to the public audience at large. There was no need to mention Midori Ito IMO, though I can see how a mention could have been made - it would not have detracted from the film.

I liked that they showed an entire performance at the end of the movie - people could watch the whole thing, or not. When I saw the movie, most of the people in the audience left while it was still going on (including me). Nonetheless, a very nice piece of punctuation to end the film.

 

[LarrySK8]

If the movie had more of a focus on skating, it would have had more narrow appeal to the public audience at large. There was no need to mention Midori Ito IMO, though I can see how a mention could have been made - it would not have detracted from the film.

RIGHT! Like 1990 NHK where Midori did a fantastic 3 axel in the LP; and Tonya did not. This is close to 1991 US Nationals when Tonya did hers. BTW - Midori's was MUCH better at NHK than TH ever did.

BTW - Tonya Harding is stupid. Truly stupid.

 

[MR-FAN]

If the movie had more of a focus on skating, it would have had more narrow appeal to the public audience at large. There was no need to mention Midori Ito IMO, though I can see how a mention could have been made - it would not have detracted from the film.

Well, it didn’t even need to be triple axel related they mentioned Kristi, Lu Chen, Bonaly, Oksana, but no Ito

It was weird hearing random voices commentate on her skating, using the exact commentary and words of Button, Peggy and Scott... I guess they couldn’t use their actual voices due to copy rights

 

[Japanfan]

Well, it didn’t even need to be triple axel related they mentioned Kristi, Lu Chen, Bonaly, Oksana, but no Ito

Again, to the average viewer who has never heard of Midori Ito, that omission would not have been noticed. Even casual/Olympics-only fans who knew Ito's name back in the day will likely have long since forgotten it.

 

[SmallFairy]

On of my friends husband's friend (I know) is working for the Norwegian distributors, and is giving our entire adult skating group a private showing, before the movies hits cinemas on Feb 2nd. Yay, can't wait!!!

 

[Inessence]

The Oscar and Olympic seasons will be over soon enough.

Besides, if they wrap up the story of Tonya too much then they won't be able to use her again in four years.

Don’t for next year. The big 25th “Silver” Anniversary.