I, Tonya

[Japanfan]

Nancy was not an innocent sweatheart either- she did break up her agent's marriage

So her agent played no part in the break-up himself?

 

[Simone411]

She did not plan the attack on Nancy. Her hubby and his friends did that behind her back. She only plead guily to the cover-up (which is knowing after, not before). The attack didn't need to happen- Tonya was perfectly capable of beating Nancy on the ice = Tonya was actually the far superior skater. I am ok with her getting paid for her life rights- its her story from beginning to the boxing career. It might also give her enough to give her 6 year old son a better start in life than she got.
The girl playing Nancy only has one line in the entire movie. Nancy was not an innocent sweatheart either- she did break up her agent's marriage, said nasty things, and had a bad attitude in her first year of pro comps (not training for them and finishing behind skaters like Rory Flack and Charlene Wong for example, or jus t acting like she didn't want to be there.
I disagree with the usfsa stripping her of the 94 title because it gives people the greivously erroneus impression that Nancy would of won if she had competed. Tonya skated very well at 94 nationals and if you only judge the skating, Tonya would have won over Nancy anyway. I also disagreed with the ban from pro comps- Scott Hamilton blackballed the wrong skater in my opinion- jefferson-pilot ladies pros should of been both the first and the last competition of Nancy's pro career.

Wow. My post brought you out of the woodwork. I must have really riled you up especially with your defensive side.

Here's a little information regarding the whole melodrama scenario. It's from Oregon Live.

Tonya Harding - Nancy Kerrigan 20 years Later/The Highlights in a timeline

Jan. 27, 1994: Harding meets the press and reads a statement admitting she failed to report things she knew about the assault on Kerrigan. "Despite my mistakes and rough edges," she says, "I have done nothing to violate the standards of excellence in sportsmanship that are expected in an Olympic athlete." The U.S. Olympic Committee hisses and boos but does nothing.

Jan. 31, 1994: Gillooly says Harding approved the attack on Kerrigan. Nike pledges $25,000 to help keep Harding in the Olympics.

Feb. 1, 1994: Gillooly pleads guilty to racketeering in exchange for a 24-month sentence. A restaurant owner in Northwest Portland finds Gillooly and Harding's trash in his trash bin and turns it over to the FBI. Gillooly's attorney, Ron Hoevet, accuses Harding of conspiracy and is roundly criticized by other attorneys.

Feb. 2, 1994: Harding falls during practice. Her pickup won't start. The networks and national press go gaga.

Feb. 3, 1994: The trash found in the container reveals notes apparently written by Harding, including the telephone number of Kerrigan's practice arena.

Feb. 5, 1994: The U.S. Figure Skating Association meets to discuss allegations against Harding. The group schedules a disciplinary hearing and gives Harding 30 days to respond to charges that she did something detrimental to the welfare of figure skating.

Feb. 10, 1994: Harding sues the U.S. Olympic Committee to stop it from a planned hearing to discuss whether she should participate in the Olympics.

Feb. 11, 1994: A Clackamas County judge asks attorneys for the USOC and Harding to try to work out a compromise.

Feb. 12, 1994: Harding drops her lawsuit, and the Olympic committee decides to cancel its hearing. Harding will skate in the Olympics.

You can read the rest yourself. I find it interesting that you've hardly posted since November of 2002, and with everything that's been posted in these 26 pages of this thread, you decide to respond to something I posted.

One question. Do you know Tonya personally and did she tell you they did it behind her back ... and if she did tell you that, you took her word for it? Just curious, and I imagine other curious minds would like to know, too.

Edited to correct the number of pages.

 

[cmk]

Wow. My post brought you out of the woodwork. I must have really riled you up especially with your defensive side.

Here's a little information regarding the whole melodrama scenario. It's from Oregon Live.

Tonya Harding - Nancy Kerrigan 20 years Later/The Highlights in a timeline



You can read the rest yourself. I find it interesting that you've hardly posted since November of 2002, and with everything that's been posted in these 26 pages of this thread, you decide to respond to something I posted.

One question. Do you know Tonya personally and did she tell you they did it behind her back ... and if she did tell you that, you took her word for it? Just curious, and I imagine other curious minds would like to know, too.

Edited to correct the number of pages.

I don't know Tonya personally. I have always preferred her skating style over Nancy's and thought Tonya should of had the bronze in 92, with Surya over Nancy as well. Tonya and Surya did more technically than Nancy did in France. Kristi and Midori weren't perfect either, but clearly the top 2. It was also bs that Tonya was left off the world team (Lisa Ervin didn't have the technical difficulty for senior worlds imo even though her program was good) in 93. I still think Tonya would of won Nationals over Nancy in 94 anyway due to being a better jumper, better spinner, able to do spiral without holding leg, more speed and power, and better connection with the music.
I also disagree with the Canadian judge from 94 olympics that said Tonya had no chance of medalling even with no whack and skating her absolute best which is bs. Tonya's absolute best would include a 3 axel which no other woman at the olympics could do (Midori was professional at the time), and she had the best 3 lutz in the field. There are things people forget like Tonya was the only woman in the top 8 in Norway to land the Triple Flip cleanly (Nancy doubled, Oksana two-footed ). Two clean skates would have put her ahead of both Germans on the tech mark alone, over Surya (who I also like and would have no problem placing over Nancy), and if only skating is considered, Nancy too. She might even had beat Oksana on the technical mark, but Oksana might of still won on presentation.
As for my post count dropping, my mom died in 2016 and I had to work a lot of overtime because probate took forever and I couldn't sell her car right away so I was relying on 1 paycheck to pay my bills and the ones she had to ( loan on house, utitlies, etc). It also took forever for my new mortgage to close (to cover her mortgage, my brother's share (will was 50/50), and my cc debt (so the mortgage would go though). Unfortunately, as a result of working all that overtime I developed heel spurs in both feet (left was worse)- which meant doctor visits, physical therapy, lab work, prescriptions , extremely painful shots, and the boot for ankle tendonitis. I do have good insurance, but the copays, deductible, and meds weren't exactly expenses I had planned for. Fortunately I have a good foot doctor who was able to get the pain down to a tolerable level so I could keep working.

 

[Simone411]

Thanks for answering my question, @cmk. I'm also sorry to hear about your mom passing away and the hardships it caused. Keeping you in my prayers regarding that. I can understand that very well.

You are definitely entitled to your opinions about Tonya's skating and otherwise. I appreciate you taking the time to explain.

 

[bardtoob]

As for my post count dropping, my mom died in 2016 and I had to work a lot of overtime because probate took forever and I couldn't sell her car right away so I was relying on 1 paycheck to pay my bills and the ones she had to ( loan on house, utitlies, etc). It also took forever for my new mortgage to close (to cover her mortgage, my brother's share (will was 50/50), and my cc debt (so the mortgage would go though). Unfortunately, as a result of working all that overtime I developed heel spurs in both feet (left was worse)- which meant doctor visits, physical therapy, lab work, prescriptions , extremely painful shots, and the boot for ankle tendonitis. I do have good insurance, but the copays, deductible, and meds weren't exactly expenses I had planned for. Fortunately I have a good foot doctor who was able to get the pain down to a tolerable level so I could keep working.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I hope they are squared away or at least well managed soon.

 

[cmk]

Things did get better financially- I eventually did get permission to sell the car (for the same amount I could of got 6 months earlier but probate took their sweet old time which meant I had to carry full insurance on her car (it was thankfully paid for) in addition to the insurance on mine- and since we had 2 different companies, I couldn't just bring it over to mine until a few months later. I was able to cut back on the overtime (it was also doctor's orders as well) but I had to work some. I was able to Everdry the basement and while they fixed the problem -no more water in the basement , they also covered up a foundation issue (house is old and foundation is rock) before letting me know - so I have a warped wall that is the very first thing you see when you go down there. I just have the mortgage (with taxes and insurance escrowed), car payment and insurance, everdry payment , and the normal utility and cable payments. I'm not that fond of the way sprectrum jacked up their prices after buying out time warner but my brother and sisterinlaw switched to uverse and now they can't get fox in english (but they can get spanish fox).
I did upgrade my car from a 2011 fusion to a 2017 fusion (leased , and I fully intend on buying it at the end of the lease term. I kept the house because I didn't want the stress of a move when I was dealing with the estate (it was like a 2nd fulltime job even though all she had was house, car, and checking accounts. I had to get her doll collection apprasied but the appraiser did buy $125 worth of dolls and waived his fee. I still have most of them- they ask occasionally if I sold anymore and I told my sister in law she was free to take half of them and sell them herself- she didn't take any (no room in their house. I also have a shih tzu mix named Angel who barks a lot so going back to apartment living is out of the question. I was able to upgrade the electrical and got new basement bilco doors as well. The house still needs more work ( the windows are actually fine but the siding probably needs redone which will be the next big project after everdry is paid off- someone told me that if I did siding, I had to replace the windows before but I can hold offf on that for the moment.

 

[bardtoob]

@jenniferlyon here is an important message from Tonya Harding

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRyltjDoE3I&feature=youtu.be&t=1112

 

[cmk]

@jenniferlyon here is an important message from Tonya Harding

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRyltjDoE3I&feature=youtu.be&t=1112

World's Dumbest was totally scripted however. Tonya did not write her own lines on that show- she read a script, as did Danny, Todd, and Leif. I did use to watch the show until they dumped all the original cast ( I think Todd lasted the longest on the show) and added Gilbert Gotfried (sp). Half the cast filmed in la, half in ny ( which explains why Judy Gold said she never met Tonya in an interview once). Loni is now on the real talk show (sort of like the view with slightly nicer hosts).

 

[skatesindreams]

Your efforts as Tonya's "apologist" are not convincing, IMO.

 

[skatesindreams]

This podcast may interest some, here:
https://www.newyorker.com/podcast/t...a-harding-and-the-robots-angling-for-your-job

 

[Inessence]

Christine Brennan is back, talking about “I, Tonya” on the latest The Skating Lesson episode uploaded today.

 

[jenniferlyon]

@jenniferlyon here is an important message from Tonya Harding

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRyltjDoE3I&feature=youtu.be&t=1112

That was a good show!

 

[Sylvia]

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/enterta...ding-olympic-judge-audrey-williams-interview/

Audrey Williams, the Canadian judge at the 1994 Winter Olympics, didn't see Tonya Harding's broken lace with her own eyes, but she was at the table when Tonya tearfully glided over to tell the ref it had given out. "I just couldn’t believe that she would do it," Williams says over the phone. At the time, many saw Harding's meltdown as karma: She was competing at the Olympics despite having maybe, possibly helped her ex-husband (Jeff Gillooly) and bodyguard (Shawn Eckhardt) plan an attack on Nancy Kerrigan. This is what she gets.
...
Williams, who turns 85 today, hasn't seen the movie yet (she says she'll likely go around Christmas), but she's aware that it's once again sparked public interest in the "incident." Here, she shares her memories of the 1994 Winter Olympics, which marked her first time as an Olympic judge, and gives her thoughts on Harding.

 

[vesperholly]

In the kiss and cry after the FS at 1991 Skate America, where she did a 3axel in both programs and won, you can hear her talking about a broken lace to her coach.

Maybe it's a thing that happened to her.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

In the kiss and cry after the FS at 1991 Skate America, where she did a 3axel in both programs and won, you can hear her talking about a broken lace to her coach.

Maybe it's a thing that happened to her.

I think the top eyelet on her skate broke after the triple salchow, which also caused her to pop the final double axel.

I am surprised boot failure isn't far more common. They probably take quite a beating with the amount of force and torque experienced from jumping and spinning.

Look at how Nathan Chen's free skating performance was affected at the 2017 World Championships, when his skates allegedly broke down. Mirai Nagasu's skates needed to be rebuilt at the World Championships in Boston, too.

 

[Jun Y]

I wish the movie was more apparently "Rashomon" than it actually is. It's pretty obvious where the filmmaker's sympathy lies and seems to lean a little too far toward one version of the story than other possible versions.

 

[Inessence]

I wish the movie was more apparently "Rashomon" than it actually is. It's pretty obvious where the filmmaker's sympathy lies and seems to lean a little too far toward one version of the story than other possible versions.

So did the media’s depiction in 1994.

 

[Japanfan]

I wish the movie was more apparently "Rashomon" than it actually is. It's pretty obvious where the filmmaker's sympathy lies and seems to lean a little too far toward one version of the story than other possible versions.

Well, it's not a documentary.

And Tonya is an interesting, compelling character for a film to explore. I'm sure some find the idea that she is can be viewed as an anti-heroine offensive, and believe that making a film about Tonya is legitimizing what she did. In that case, I guess you don't go to the film.

I for one am really looking forward to it - especially Alison Janney's performance, which is supposed to be phenomenal.

 

[Jun Y]

And Tonya is an interesting, compelling character for a film to explore. I'm sure some find that idea that she is can be viewed as an anti-heroine offensive, and believe that making a film about Tonya is legitimizing what she did. In that case, I guess you don't go to the film.

I for one am really looking forward to it - especially Alison Janney's performance, which is supposed to be phenomenal.

I don't find it offensive that a movie is made on Harding. Actually there is not a lot of depth in the movie's portrayal of Harding herself.

The movie presents itself from the start that it's showing contradictory and none-too-credible versions offered by Tonya and Jeff. That's the conceit of the piece. But then it doesn't quite carry it through the end.

It's often funny but pretty superficial. Alison Janney's performance is showy and funny. I don't know how hard it is though.

 

[skatingguy]

I haven't seen the movie yet, but just even from title - I, Tonya - it's clear that the movie is from Tonya's perspective and as such is going to show things from her perspective and present a version of her story.

 

[skatesindreams]

The difficulty is that the "average viewer" who doesn't have sufficient "background information" is apt to be overly influenced by their interpretation.

 

[berthesghost]

^ so basically just like every Hollywood movie based on historic events then.

 

[binbinwinwin]

I haven't seen the movie yet, but just even from title - I, Tonya - it's clear that the movie is from Tonya's perspective and as such is going to show things from her perspective and present a version of her story.

I, Tonya is a homage to I, Claudius, a book with an unreliable narrator written from the perspective of a "loser"

Anyway the Cosmopolitan interview with the judge was really interesting, thanks @Sylvia for sharing. I agree with the judge in the interview that no judge probably would've have told her to her face that they don't want her image representing the country. From my experience it's more coded language that wears you down a lot and makes you feel inadequate. Smile more, stand up straighter, your movements here should be more feminine, don't mention your family etc etc but I guess within the time constraints they couldn't have really have shown that so they took a shortcut. I was very taken aback by that scene in the theatre so I guess it worked? Lol

 

[berthesghost]

^ which is all well and good until she, Tonya starts claiming she was the only one who got subjected to that crap.

I get that this particular movie is about she, Tonya and not they, Tonya&Nancy, so I’m assuming they don’t spend time on Nancy being dragged kicking and screaming into “usfs approved feminity”. No scenes of her whining about “itchy” Wang costumes, or capped teeth, etc.

I have no problem with Harding blasting her “I did it my way” music, but I do eye roll at her “the people who made up the rules refused to reward me for refusing to follow them. Ain’t life so unfair to me.” routine.

 

[MacMadame]

In the kiss and cry after the FS at 1991 Skate America, where she did a 3axel in both programs and won, you can hear her talking about a broken lace to her coach.

Maybe it's a thing that happened to her.

Tonya was known for having equipment breakdowns. It was a combination of things that caused it. Cheap costumes, not having the money to replace skates as often as maybe needed, showing up at competitions not 100% prepared have been named as causes over the years.

 

[Aussie Willy]

The difficulty is that the "average viewer" who doesn't have sufficient "background information" is apt to be overly influenced by their interpretation.

And no-one apart from diehard skating fans are going to give two hoots about it or care about the interpretation. Most people will go and see the movie, enjoy it for what it is as a movie and walk away without a second thought.

And I don't know why skating fans should worry about what the "average viewer" thinks. It is part of history and I think most people have moved on from then.

 

[skatesindreams]

Tonya still hopes for some revised history; much as most of us might wish the story would fade.

 

[MacMadame]

Tonya still hopes for some revised history

And?

 

[skatesindreams]

The "general public" may give Tonya the sympathy she is after.
I suspect it has already happened; since the film was made, and she will gain even more attention, if it wins awards.

I don't believe this is a positive development.

 

[bardtoob]

The "general public" may give Tonya the sympathy she is after.
I suspect it has already happened; since the film was made, and she will gain even more attention, if it wins awards.

I don't believe this is a positive development.

I want the publicity for skating so there is general viewership. I think Tonya will then be forgotten again by them.

As for skating fans, we know the fact is that Tonya wrote down where Nancy would be and gave it to Jeff, regardless of her intentions, stated or otherwise.