2026 4CC - Men Free Skate

[Matryeshka]

I had to bail--I was falling asleep and writing nonsense, even by my admittedly low standards. But since I started a theme, I will go with it, no matter how Cha skates, we all know he is the #1 King Leader of the Flowing White Shirt Cabal. All bow down to your Lord and Master, hear his Cry of Juliet Far and Wide. Somewhere, there is a timeline where there is justice in the world. And what I mean by justice, is Cha has multiple World titles and is the clear Olympic favorite.

I'll be the contrarian. I like Jin. I do see maturity and improvement in his skating and find him kind of delightful, and he's clearly enjoying skating more than in a long time. I think he does feel this music and he is performing to the crowd. He makes me, and crowds inside and outside of China happy, and that's worth something. I like him more this year than I've ever in the past. It's called ice skating, not ice skating skills. That being said, I do agree his PCS are too high, but I don't think it's the biggest travesty in skating I've ever seen. I'd argue Sui/Han's scores were more of a crime, and I really loved Sui/Han. While we're being contrary, I like Chris's commentary, if only because I could only find the E! feed for Pairs and Boitano on a Bike, I'd rather listen to Scott Hamilton.

Shaidorov's free is just...bad. Again, I'm in the minority, but I'm OK with him being behind Jin on PCS. I liked Shaidorov last year and his bizarre Take on Nutso Musical Mashups Me and I find this program nearly unwatchable. It feels like something you'd see at the top of the second group of Euros.

I find Yamamoto boring. Really good, deserving of every point he gets, but if he's not absolutely perfect, I find him a little dull this year. There's something about his programs this year that's very paint-by-numbers artistic skater. I think he'd be better if he skated to real classical music. I'd like to see what he could do with something like Polovtsian Dances.

Oh Kazuki Sacrifices however must be made in the Name of the Flowing Shirt. The Cabal thanks him for his services.

I love Kao, if not this performance. More beast than beauty today. But he's forgiven because I looooove Umbrellas. I'd love it more without the vocals. Jeeee t'aiiiiiimmmmmeeeee. At least he doesn't use the duet, so half a point for that.

I know people are saying the SP propped Kao up, but it's equally true that if Cha had done better in the long program and had not made the stupid mistake with the combo, Cha would have won, so I'm OK with the winners. And had I known both Kao and Cha would medal, I'd have said sleep be damned.

Now to finally watch the ice dance free!

 

[SidelineSkater]

ive never seen so many men in overly complicated white blouses in one place

You’ve never seen pics from @AngieNikodinovLove (ANL) ’s annual white party at the harem cottage.

 

[PRlady]

Uh, is a white party just for white people or for people dressed in white? Uncool old lady wants to know.

And I don’t think Miura is god’s gift to artistry either and vastly prefer Cha, but one thing about Kao, he’s fast. Both in person and on TV he’s faster than the other guys and they (Kazuki, Cha, Shaidorov) are not slow. So that’s something.

 

[skatfan]

Uh, is a white party just for white people or for people dressed in white? Uncool old lady wants to know.

And I don’t think Miura is god’s gift to artistry either and vastly prefer Cha, but one thing about Kao, he’s fast. Both in person and on TV he’s faster than the other guys and they (Kazuki, Cha, Shaidorov) are not slow. So that’s something

Miura can be artistic - I still remember 2023 when he won both 4CCs and Junior Worlds. This Umbrellas program can be wonderful, but the glitches meant he was thinking way too hard through it here.

 

[Sylvia]

Americans: SOS on quads. Practically everyone is attempting at least one quad, and the US sent two quad-less men? <snip>

Just curious which 2 U.S. men would you have sent instead @her grace?

Liam once landed a clean 4S internationally but it was a while ago: https://x.com/SylviaUnseen/status/1591554656890949633

 

[her grace]

Just curious which 2 U.S. men would you have sent instead @her grace?

Liam once landed a clean 4S internationally but it was a while ago: https://x.com/SylviaUnseen/status/1591554656890949633

I would have sent the team that was selected. You omitted my next sentence when quoting me, which was directed toward USFS’ development approach. You have to send the best you have. Hopefully, USFS is also considering how to encourage quad development because otherwise, the team’s scoring ceiling is lower. And adding quads “late” often turns into not adding a quad at all.

 

[SidelineSkater]

Uh, is a white party just for white people or for people dressed in white? Uncool old lady wants to know.

Fair question. It’s where attendees wear all white. It’s popular in some circles of black culture or LGBT culture or just any group wanting to do a theme party. Not sure if it’s still a thing.

 

[Aceon6]

I slogged through the whole thing, just as I do for Euros and 4CCs every quad. I figure that this is the last time I’ll see many of these skaters. Bitter sweet.

 

[kwanette]

Miura can be artistic - I still remember 2023 when he won both 4CCs and Junior Worlds. This Umbrellas program can be wonderful, but the glitches meant he was thinking way too hard through it here.

Artistic..eh..His BATB FS from 22=23..I liked a lot..From among his 52 program changes this season..that is the one I would have brought back. But..I do not give advice to Japanese skaters whose last names are not Tomono.

 

[MacMadame]

I think most people on this thread and in each competition seem to agree?

This is known as the Bandwagon Fallacy.

I like Jin. I think he has an "it" factor where he draws me (and others) into his skating. When I first noticed him earlier in his career, he was very fast and exciting with his jumps at a time when not as many were throwing out quads like candy. Then, he went through a period where he was very inconsistent in all of it, the performance and the jumping. So it was nice to see him enjoying himself, really perform and also land his jumps. This is what I was expecting to see from him when he first came on the scene as primarily a jumper and continued to develop.

Fair question. It’s where attendees wear all white. It’s popular in some circles of black culture or LGBT culture or just any group wanting to do a theme party. Not sure if it’s still a thing.

I've heard of White & Gold party somewhat recently but even that is gone now.

 

[tony]

This is known as the Bandwagon Fallacy.

I like Jin. I think he has an "it" factor where he draws me (and others) into his skating. When I first noticed him earlier in his career, he was very fast and exciting with his jumps at a time when not as many were throwing out quads like candy. Then, he went through a period where he was very inconsistent in all of it, the performance and the jumping. So it was nice to see him enjoying himself, really perform and also land his jumps. This is what I was expecting to see from him when he first came on the scene as primarily a jumper and continued to develop.

If it’s a “fallacy” then any and everyone can explain where he fulfills 8+ PCS to show that I (or anyone else, for that matter) is wrong, no?

It’s interesting when I get quoted with comments about ‘the judges not seeming to think so’, because if this were a Russian skater or Grassl or select any of the disliked skaters getting big PCS via jumps, the comments about the inflated scores would generally be accepted as truth.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I've watched Miura's FS a few times. I usually like him a lot and have been rooting for him to make a comeback after injury.

However, while in the past he's shown subtlety and musicality, to me he looked like he was bombing through this FS.

Sigh.

 

[LilJen]

I've heard of White & Gold party somewhat recently but even that is gone now.

White and gold? Or blue and black?

 

[Bunny Hop]

Shaidorov: His hair looks like a young Ambassador Londo Mollari from Babylon 5, not much of a program here

And now I won't be able to un-see this.

I'll be the contrarian. I like Jin. I do see maturity and improvement in his skating and find him kind of delightful, and he's clearly enjoying skating more than in a long time.

I like Jin too, but that doesn't stop me thinking the judges are scoring him on past achievements, or wishful thinking. I can like skaters but still not agree with their scores. I don't even necessarily want my favourite skaters to win if I just enjoy watching them.

When he first came on the scene Jin was all jumps and nothing else and pretty much everyone was scandalised by a complete lack of skating skills or artistry. But the following year he came back very obviously having worked on his PCS. Was it great? No, but it was there at a reasonable level, and I respect the fact he/his team took feedback on board and did something about it. But both tech and PCS have regressed since then, which is a shame.

 

[MacMadame]

White and gold? Or blue and black?

White and gold. I was not looking forward to it but then they changed it to an 80s party and that was a lot of fun.

If it’s a “fallacy” then any and everyone can explain where he fulfills 8+ PCS to show that I (or anyone else, for that matter) is wrong, no?

The fallacy is to argue by saying "lots of people agree with me" rather than arguing with talking points.

It’s interesting when I get quoted with comments about ‘the judges not seeming to think so’,

That would be the Appeal to Authority logical fallacy. Something many of us have done, including myself.

because if this were a Russian skater or Grassl or select any of the disliked skaters getting big PCS via jumps, the comments about the inflated scores would generally be accepted as truth.

What those of us who think Jin has something other than jumps are trying to say to you is not that it's okay for PCS to be high only because of jumps for Jin but not for Grassl. We are saying that Jin has more than jumps and that his skating skills aren't as bad as you say.

But also, I don't think anyone has defended his PCS. They just disagree with your overall assessment of his skating. So you are arguing against something that isn't being said. Also known as the Strawman fallacy, now that I think of it.

 

[tony]

The fallacy is to argue by saying "lots of people agree with me" rather than arguing with talking points.

No, I actually did give exact talking points earlier in the thread. In fact, since you brought it up, I really don’t see people ever give talking points from the actual rulebook.

What those of us who think Jin has something other than jumps are trying to say to you is not that it's okay for PCS to be high only because of jumps for Jin but not for Grassl. We are saying that Jin has more than jumps and that his skating skills aren't as bad as you say.

And if the skating skills aren’t that bad, any of you could also get into talking points about the actual criteria for which all three PCS revolve. Anyone can say ‘they aren’t as bad’ and that be their only opinion on the subject.

If you think Grassl has worse skating skills than Jin, where? What specific bullet points? Because I completely disagree.

But also, I don't think anyone has defended his PCS. They just disagree with your overall assessment of his skating. So you are arguing against something that isn't being said. Also known as the Strawman fallacy, now that I think of it.

I see one person who disagreed, and then you chimed in. And actually another poster said he was getting benefit of the doubt PCS because it’s a home nation skater.

 

[Karen-W]

I'm the person who said I thought Jin was getting the benefit of the doubt on his PCS because the CFSA has been willing to host major events for the ISU during the past few seasons (4CCs two years ago, GPF last year, Skate to Milano & 4CCs again this year).

I also don't think his PCS is nearly as over-inflated as some folks in this thread who trash him all day long. I actually enjoy his skating & programs this season more than Grassl or Shaidorov. I think he does a fine job of expressing & presenting the music for his FS in spite of it being one of the weirdest duets of "Perfect" I've ever heard - I quite like the original version with just Ed Sheeran.

Was his PCS inflated? Sure... I can't really justify Jin having higher PCS than either Sanchez or Sadovsky, but that's probably more a function of Jin being in the last group for the FS than anything else and the only skater in that final group with lower PCS was Shaidorov and Jin's PCS was 2.5-3 points lower than Tomono & Yamamoto, 4 points lower than Miura and nearly 7 points lower than Cha.

 

[Sally1214]

This is known as the Bandwagon Fallacy.

I like Jin. I think he has an "it" factor where he draws me (and others) into his skating. When I first noticed him earlier in his career, he was very fast and exciting with his jumps at a time when not as many were throwing out quads like candy. Then, he went through a period where he was very inconsistent in all of it, the performance and the jumping. So it was nice to see him enjoying himself, really perform and also land his jumps. This is what I was expecting to see from him when he first came on the scene as primarily a jumper and continued to develop.

Great post. I agree with you 100%.

 

[MacMadame]

No, I actually did give exact talking points earlier in the thread. In fact, since you brought it up, I really don’t see people ever give talking points from the actual rulebook.

Some of us said his skating has more flow than you think. That's a talking point from the rule book. (He also has more than Grassl and better carriage too, now that you ask.)

I see one person who disagreed, and then you chimed in. And actually another poster said he was getting benefit of the doubt PCS because it’s a home nation skater.

So 3 of us thought his PCS were inflated that you remember. But who said they were deserved? I said no one was defending them and you respond with people who said they were inflated.

 

[tony]

Some of us said his skating has more flow than you think. That's a talking point from the rule book. (He also has more than Grassl and better carriage too, now that you ask.)

So why are you telling me I didn’t discuss any criteria when the literal post that I was quoted on (ie. The judges must see something that I don’t see) had some reasons why it should be lower? Riddle me confused. I’ve done it in this thread and several other threads when it comes to him.

I also, FWIW, gave reasons why the CO and PR marks are too high but… carriage.

So 3 of us thought his PCS were inflated that you remember. But who said they were deserved? I said no one was defending them and you respond with people who said they were inflated.

I don’t even know what you’re saying here.

 

[Sally1214]

I also don't think his PCS is nearly as over-inflated as some folks in this thread who trash him all day long. I actually enjoy his skating & programs this season more than Grassl or Shaidorov. I think he does a fine job of expressing & presenting the music for his FS in spite of it being one of the weirdest duets of "Perfect" I've ever heard - I quite like the original version with just Ed Sheeran.

I agree with you, Karen. I also thought he presented the music very well in both his SP and FS ... much better than he has in the past and you actually could feel his joy of skating, which always makes me feel good and connected with a skater. That might be the "it" factor that @MacMadame referred to.

 

[Sally1214]

Anyone can say ‘they aren’t as bad’ and that be their only opinion on the sub

Tony,, you've hit the nail on the head. It absolutely is their opinion. ... and other peoples' opinions matter just as much as yours. Personally, I totally respect your opinion and there's no way I'm going to shoot you down for it. You clearly are not a fan of Boyang Jin and that's just fine but he does have a large fan base and the judges mark him quite well. So...maybe you could respect other people' s opinions and just agree to disagree? Maybe just let it go? Sometimes, that's what works best in the long run.

 

[tony]

Tony,, you've hit the nail on the head. It absolutely is their opinion. ... and other peoples' opinions matter just as much as yours. Personally, I totally respect your opinion and there's no way I'm going to shoot you down for it. You clearly are not a fan of Boyang Jin and that's just fine but he does have a large fan base and the judges mark him quite well. So...maybe you could respect other people' s opinions and just agree to disagree? Maybe just let it go? Sometimes, that's what works best in the long run.

I hear you. My opinion was quoted several pages and many hours after the event ended, told the judges don’t agree, and I replied to said quote.

If the judges agreed with every single opinion here, we wouldn’t have anything to talk about. We all know how ice dance has gone this year.

 

[Sally1214]

I hear you. My opinion was quoted several pages and many hours after the event ended, told the judges don’t agree, and I replied to said quote.

Oh, I'm aware of all of that. I wasn't able to watch Four Continents live and had to catch up by videos and then surf through all the comments on FSU after the fact (as I finished watching each event). What I noticed was that you did not agree with Boyang's PCS in the SP. Fair enough. I enjoyed his SP but wasn't disturbed by your initial criticisms at all. That was how you felt and you had every right to say it. It was the repeated references to Jin (by comparison) as subsequent skaters performed that started to get to me. I started feeling like it was over the top. Just say what you liked about a skater and please leave Jin's name out of it. Judging from the comments by some people who spoke out about their admiration for Jin (after the FS was over), I think others felt the same as I did. Everyone's opinions and feelings are valid. What's really important here is that we all love this wonderful sport and that we support it to the maximum of our ability. As long as we respect each other's opinions, it's okay to agree to disagree.

 

[terisa]

Fair question. It’s where attendees wear all white. It’s popular in some circles of black culture or LGBT culture or just any group wanting to do a theme party. Not sure if it’s still a thing.

Definitely still a thing among older women, especially sorority women.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

You’ve never seen pics from @AngieNikodinovLove (ANL) ’s annual white party at the harem cottage.

I’m going through this while I am skiing in Utah. Good talking to you today, hon.

Well, the list of the Atlantis Cruise events was released today. You should see all of the themed parties there’s going to be next week, oh my gosh.

 

[MacMadame]

So why are you telling me I didn’t discuss any criteria when the literal post that I was quoted on (ie. The judges must see something that I don’t see) had some reasons why it should be lower? Riddle me confused. I’ve done it in this thread and several other threads when it comes to him.

Good lord, Tony. Can no one tease you about anything?

I don’t even know what you’re saying here.

I'm saying no one here is defending his PCS even those of us who think they aren't as bad as you do.