U.S. Men 2022-23 news & updates

[Firedancer]

Looks like Jason plans to compete at nationals:
https://twitter.com/jasonbskates/status/1587979012114190338?s=46&t=NMWfwdI4KRz5cSJYRg0Z1A

 

[misskarne]

I was just coming in here to post that according to instagram, Jason is back at TCC.

Looks like Jason plans to compete at nationals:
https://twitter.com/jasonbskates/status/1587979012114190338?s=46&t=NMWfwdI4KRz5cSJYRg0Z1A

HOORAY!

 

[sk9tingfan]

I was just coming in here to post that according to instagram, Jason is back at TCC.

HOORAY!

I just saw that too and said, "Wow!"

 

[AYS]

Wow. Shocked and thrilled. And hoping my fan nerves can take it once again.

 

[Debbie S]

Yay! I'm hoping he'll do his Sinnerman SP. And I can finally see it live in comp!

 

[Trillian]

Wow. Shocked and thrilled. And hoping my fan nerves can take it once again.

Watching him chase the Olympic spot was nerve-wracking as a fan because it was obvious how much he wanted it, and so many things were outside his control. At this point I would imagine great performances are the main goal for him, and he knows how to make those happen. I think it will be fun to watch regardless of the result. I bet he’ll get a great crowd response.

 

[Lacey]

YAY TEAM, Go Jason, so excited to see him at US Nationals!

 

[VGThuy]

I always feel safer when Jason is on the team.

 

[skatfan]

So glad I’ll get to see him live again!

 

[Karen-W]

I always feel safer when Jason is on the team.

Isn't this a bit presumptuous? I mean, sure, the only confirmed skater for Nationals that has demonstrated the ability to score as high as Jason internationally is Ilia, but it's not as though clean programs from Max Naumov or Camden wouldn't score equally well.

 

[tony]

Isn't this a bit presumptuous? I mean, sure, the only confirmed skater for Nationals that has demonstrated the ability to score as high as Jason internationally is Ilia, but it's not as though clean programs from Max Naumov or Camden wouldn't score equally well.

In what world would one feel 'safer' with Pulkinen on a team versus Brown and his international track record?

 

[Karen-W]

In what world would one feel 'safer' with Pulkinen on a team versus Brown and his international track record?

In what world does competing at Nationals presume that he has a desire to be named to the Worlds team?

 

[VGThuy]

I just said I feel safer when Jason is on the team. I didn’t say Jason will make the team or would accept.

 

[tony]

In what world does competing at Nationals presume that he has a desire to be named to the Worlds team?

But that wasn't what the original post said-- or at least not how I read it.

If Jason skates well (which, based on his Japan Open, he hasn't really let down his skills) and is named to the World team, I would feel safer about the team as well. I don't think it's that outlandish to note Pulkinen is capable of a one-off 2022 Worlds or any random GP where he's completely fallen apart, and Naumov has had one event so far that even puts him in the discussion-- and even that was really just based on the SP.

 

[Karen-W]

Look, this is going to sound really ruthless, but if our guys can't earn 3 spots without Jason on the team, then they don't deserve 3 spots. Camden, Tomoki, Jimmy, Liam & Ilia all have ISU Championships experience from last season. At some point, they need to step up and handle the pressure or lose the spot. They're never going to learn how to handle that pressure unless they're put on the team in the first place.

 

[VGThuy]

Ok. Now we’re presuming Jason won’t continue to 2026 and other kinds of presumptions.

 

[Hedwig]

I am happy to see him again. Lets wait and see where it leads

 

[Dobre]

Good for Jason. He loves to skate.

 

[Trillian]

In what world does competing at Nationals presume that he has a desire to be named to the Worlds team?

There are a lot of reasons he may or may not be interested in competing at Worlds this year. But if Jason does well enough at nationals to be named to the team, I would assume the fact that it’s in Japan would factor into that decision. Aside from his personal fondness for Japan, taking one last opportunity to compete at Worlds there is probably a smart move for anyone who plans to pursue pro skating in the near future.

As for who would be the strongest team, who knows. I’m a fan of all the other guys and most of them are capable of doing a lot more than they have so far this season. But frankly, no one besides Ilia has scored above 230 internationally this season. From taking a glance back, even on the bad days, Jason hasn’t scored under 230 since 2016. If he makes the world team and decides to go - and I don’t think anyone here is assuming that as a given - common sense says he’d be an asset to the team. Given his experience and popularity with the other skaters, probably an asset in more ways than one.

 

[skateboy]

In what world would one feel 'safer' with Pulkinen on a team versus Brown and his international track record?

In a world where, unlike Jason, Pulkinen is on an upswing, can actually land a quad and is not nearly 30.

 

[On My Own]

I don't really know why we're debating this before we even know if Brown wants to be at Worlds lol

 

[tony]

In a world where, unlike Jason, Pulkinen is on an upswing, can actually land a quad and is not nearly 30.

What upswing? You mean the free skate at Worlds? Because his Skate Canada performances weren't exactly brilliant, and he nearly lost a medal at the US Challenger to someone who didn't even qualify for the free skate at Worlds last year, but okay...

Camden is a brilliant skater when he gets it right, but I don't know how anyone can say he's a safer (not in terms of better potential, not in terms of has more of a future, not in terms of younger) choice.

Had Brown shown up to the Japan Open like Brezina and scored less than 100 points in his free skate, then I'd get where these supposed arguments were coming from. At that point, I think everyone would assume he would swan song his way out of Nationals somewhere down the pack in the early groups like many have before.

 

[Hedwig]

I don't really know why we're debating this before we even know if Brown wants to be at Worlds lol

The debate gets old before we will even know this.

The old debate of someone actually earning the spot vs young talent.

It is very ageist and I thought we as fs fans were past if after Zoe Jones and Deanna but well. Not all of us apparently

 

[Karen-W]

There are a lot of reasons he may or may not be interested in competing at Worlds this year. But if Jason does well enough at nationals to be named to the team, I would assume the fact that it’s in Japan would factor into that decision. Aside from his personal fondness for Japan, taking one last opportunity to compete at Worlds there is probably a smart move for anyone who plans to pursue pro skating in the near future.

As for who would be the strongest team, who knows. I’m a fan of all the other guys and most of them are capable of doing a lot more than they have so far this season. But frankly, no one besides Ilia has scored above 230 internationally this season. From taking a glance back, even on the bad days, Jason hasn’t scored under 230 since 2016. If he makes the world team and decides to go - and I don’t think anyone here is assuming that as a given - common sense says he’d be an asset to the team. Given his experience and popularity with the other skaters, probably an asset in more ways than one.

I can see the positives and the negatives. I don't disagree that Jason would, if he finishes on the podium, be a stronger skater than pretty much any of the other guys we have for the Worlds team, but in putting him on the Worlds team, that means one less guy is sent to gain valuable Worlds experience that we're going to need from them should Jason not intend on competing through 2026.

With regard to the scoring potential of the other US men, it isn't as though the rest of the men in the world are exactly tearing it up. Frangipani, the 3rd Italian man (so, he won't be at Worlds) is sitting at 8th on the SB list with a 244+ score. Naumov is down at 18th with 227+, but there are 6 guys ahead of him who won't be at Worlds due to the max # of skaters per country limits. And Kapeikis & Pulkinen, sitting at 25th & 26th, have 4 guys between them and Naumov who also aren't going to be at Worlds (one of whom is Yampolsky, who, I think, is skating juniors at Nats).

Sure, Jason is a better bet, but, I don't know that he is necessary to retain 3 spots, and I'd rather the other guys go instead so they can start building up that competitive experience.

 

[On My Own]

The debate gets old before we will even know this.

The old debate of someone actually earning the spot vs young talent.

It is very ageist and I thought we as fs fans were past if after Zoe Jones and Steanna but well. Not all of us apparently

I don't think I'd say someone arguing to promote young talent with more firepower is ageist. My problem with the argument is that Pulkinen is Pulkinen. Naumov, maybe I'd agree with.

My personal opinion is simply that I was never a fan of Brown, so I don't really care to see him on another worlds team. Obviously, USFS should do whatever will get them the most spots.

And I'd still rather read this debate in January lol.

 

[Hedwig]

I don't think I'd say someone arguing to promote young talent with more firepower is ageist. My problem with the argument is that Pulkinen is Pulkinen.

My personal opinion is simply that I was never a fan of Brown, so I don't really care to see him on another worlds team. Obviously, USFS should do whatever will get them the most spots.

And I'd still rather read this debate in January lol.

Oh it definitely is. It is not giving a spot to someone or arguing against if because of age. So the reason someone is discriminated against is age and not what he or she can do. What else is this but being ageist.

I talked to a skater once - who is still skating for fun btw- who made it to the podium at Swiss Nationals for the very first time when he was 30 years old. Then an official came to him and instead of congratulating him he said „are you finally done now and can let the younger generation win medals?“
He was so upset by this that it overshadowed all joy in his biggest sport moment of his career.

 

[tony]

I can see the positives and the negatives. I don't disagree that Jason would, if he finishes on the podium, be a stronger skater than pretty much any of the other guys we have for the Worlds team, but in putting him on the Worlds team, that means one less guy is sent to gain valuable Worlds experience that we're going to need from them should Jason not intend on competing through 2026.

Sure, Jason is a better bet, but, I don't know that he is necessary to retain 3 spots, and I'd rather the other guys go instead so they can start building up that competitive experience.

So-- what if Jimmy Ma, who has been right on the cusp for a few years, breaks through at Nationals at 27 (10 months younger than Brown) and gets onto the podium? Is that taking away from others and their needed experience, too?

Pulkinen is wildly inconsistent and may finish 2nd or he may finish 8th. Who knows. Naumov hasn't shown much of anything yet aside from one international SP. Hiwatashi we will see on the Grand Prix.

The field is so unclear at Nationals right now that the people who end up on the World team this year (aside from Malinin, most likely) may not even be in the conversation next year. If you think Jason is potentially taking away a spot from someone, who exactly would it be that is guaranteed to be building up to 2026?

 

[On My Own]

Oh it definitely is. It is not giving a spot to someone or arguing against if because of age. So the reason someone is discriminated against is age and not what he or she can do. What else is this but being ageist.

It is not ageist to argue that someone has more future potential, higher firepower, and would inherently be less prone to injury and more likely to continue for four more years and therefore needs to rack up competition experience among the big leagues. These are all reasonable attributes linked to someone's competitive success.

I talked to a skater once - who is still skating for fun btw- who made it to the podium at Swiss Nationals for the very first time when he was 30 years old. Then an official came to him and instead of congratulating him he said „are you finally done now and can let the younger generation win medals?“
He was so upset by this that it overshadowed all joy in his biggest sport moment of his career.

I'm very sorry to hear that it was said to him, but no one said Brown shouldn't compete at Nationals and prove his mettle and maybe win a medal, from what I can see. Worlds is a different thing, and it very much should take into account a lot more. I don't think emotion is as much of a consideration in what is ultimately a business.

Obviously, another consideration is that if the US didn't have more than one or two spots, then it doesn't really matter how many young talents are there in the US. This particular argument would fall in Brown's favour, especially if we don't know how well Malinin will do at Worlds, which we will only find out by GPF, if not 4CCs.

 

[Karen-W]

Oh it definitely is. It is not giving a spot to someone or arguing against if because of age. So the reason someone is discriminated against is age and not what he or she can do. What else is this but being ageist.

I talked to a skater once - who is still skating for fun btw- who made it to the podium at Swiss Nationals for the very first time when he was 30 years old. Then an official came to him and instead of congratulating him he said „are you finally done now and can let the younger generation win medals?“
He was so upset by this that it overshadowed all joy in his biggest sport moment of his career.

No, my argument for not putting him on the team has nothing to do with his age. It has everything to do with providing other skaters who are committed to competing for the US through the rest of this quad on the team to gain competitive experience. Jason has plenty of that and, if he isn't going to make the commitment and only wants to dab in and out and selectively choose to only compete at a Worlds (and presumably WTT) in Japan to improve his already high visibility and name recognition in Japan, then, I'd rather see the other guys on the team, even if they do lose the 3rd spot.

 

[Karen-W]

So-- what if Jimmy Ma, who has been right on the cusp for a few years, breaks through at Nationals at 27 (10 months younger than Brown) and gets onto the podium? Is that taking away from others and their needed experience, too?

Pulkinen is wildly inconsistent and may finish 2nd or he may finish 8th. Who knows. Naumov hasn't shown much of anything yet aside from one international SP. Hiwatashi we will see on the Grand Prix.

The field is so unclear at Nationals right now that the people who end up on the World team this year (aside from Malinin, most likely) may not even be in the conversation next year. If you think Jason is potentially taking away a spot from someone, who exactly would it be that is guaranteed to be building up to 2026?

Well, we know that William Annis is competing senior at Nats this year since he's been assigned to IceChallenge. I'm not sure which of the other really promising juniors are skating up at Nats since we haven't seen the Sectionals start lists yet. There's also Kapeikis. And we have yet to see Tomoki skate this season.