Music group sues NBC, US figure skating pair over use of song during Winter Olympics

[allezfred]

Given how sh*tty the ISU is about accurately identifying skaters' music - how many times have we seen program music listed as "medley"? - in many cases it would be next to impossible to identify who the composer or performer really was.

The information in the ISU bios is provided by the athletes and the federations, so if you are going to complain about who is being shitty point it in the right direction.

 

[Amantide]

Ah, remember the simple times when everybody skated to classical music? Or did Tchaikovsky’s heirs seek royalties?

I wish Tchaikovsky resurrects and sue them all.

 

[millyskate]

I wish Tchaikovsky resurrects and sue them all.

I've actually often wondered if the choice of particularly low quality recordings of classical music or terrible string / synth arrangements is related to the fact the best orchestral recordings are not available on these general licensing agreements.

 

[Amantide]

I've actually often wondered if the choice of particularly low quality recordings of classical music or terrible string / synth arrangements is related to the fact the best orchestral recordings are not available on these general licensing agreements.

Good question. I've never thought about it before but I think you might be right.
You know, now I'm going down the rabbit hole and re-listen some of those recordings. I think some Russians had good recordings. I'm thinking M&D Rachmaninov, K&S Manfred Symphony By T. V&T with Mahler in Vancouver, Glazunov and Scriabin in Sochi. Maybe I remember wrong but I am going to listen again to some of them just out of curiosity.

Question, is an OST for a Documentary less expensive?

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

I guess my personal experience is admittedly giving me a bias towards believing the musicians rather than the skaters, as it all sounds too familiar.
I also imagine that that having performances on youtube nowadays creates a problem that exists in a big legal void. I wouldn't be surprised if the copyright laws were intended for circumstances where the skaters' music was broadcast on TV, maybe once or twice, and the licenses paid accordingly. Not put up on youtube or streaming services for people to watch over and over again.

There is indeed a huge legal void. Unfortunately here in Canada, at least, most politicians do not understand the intricacies of the Cyber Interwebz - making it very difficult to advocate for changes in legislation. And now, what I am doing talking about some of my real life stuff on FSU? I come here for the voids, skandal & drama

 

[my little pony]

I apologize if it is already in the thread, I can't find it

but what happened when the sued the German pair that used the music?

 

[Amantide]

I wanted to make a video once (no profit or anything, just for hobby) about Middle-earth and I wanted to use artwork. So, I went on deviant art and believe it or not I sent over 100 privet msg. to various artists (which I had spent a lot of time checking and selecting their work for that particular project) requesting them the permission to use their work on my video and giving them full credit. Of all the people that replied (over 80) only one of them refused outright "NO". lol I was a bit surprised because I have seen her work everywhere on internet and YT.

Anyway, the irony of that was, here I am writing +100 e-mails to people (yep, no copy&paste because I was very specific about which work I wanted to use etc, so I had to personalize them) requesting permission to use their work, while using Tolkien's work, therefore infringing copyright.

 

[Ananas Astra]

The cover is awful and has been used several times over the last couple of years.

 

[Karen-W]

The cover is awful and has been used several times over the last couple of years.

Maybe that's what has really upset them. They saw people online asking "what is this terrible version of this song?" Yeah, I'd probably sue for copyright infringement too if all I was seeing/hearing online were people questioning my creative/artistic vision/taste. Truth hurts.

 

[Areski]

Americans love suing each other, what else is new here?

 

[sk9tingfan]

Maybe that's what has really upset them. They saw people online asking "what is this terrible version of this song?" Yeah, I'd probably sue for copyright infringement too if all I was seeing/hearing online were people questioning my creative/artistic vision/taste. Truth hurts.

While not horrible, I grimace when some people attribute "Sounds of Silence" to Disturbed, not even realizing that it was Simon and Garfunkel who wrote and composed it first. IMO, it was the superior version.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

As someone who has spent 20+ years hosting a radio program, played in bands, and ran a venue, I am pretty well-versed in a variety of music matters, especially when it comes to these kinds of complaints. I am not a lawyer (I know some of you are tho).

I think it is important to remember that this pertains to licensing and copyright in the US. Other countries have very different ways of handling things. Licensing and copyright issues are also not the same things.

The complaint largely revolves around copyright, but IMHO this falls under fair use on account of its transformative nature. That the original song is in the public domain isn't important here—it's this specific performance of the song, by these artists.

Interestingly, they list all their TV/film placements, which are handled by sync licenses. Live music at sporting events fall under blanket licenses, which are handled by the venue. NBC/Comcast pays for a similar license for TV/streaming. Anything that is composed for the network falls under a sync.

(In the US, royalties are paid out by the mechanical, not the performance. But that could change if the American Music Fairness Act, a bill currently in the House, gets passed.)

I dunno, these guys could have filed a good ol' DMCA complaint. But since they are so concerned about the "integrity of their professional reputation," they got their dad to file a lawsuit for them and create this embarrassing public spectacle for the sole purpose of settling out of court. I hope it gets tossed out because its so frivolous. Even more ridiculous when one considers both the plaintiffs and defendant reside in the LA area.

Look, I get it. The music biz is a pretty ****ing dire place to be at the moment. Royalties aren't coming in because streaming platforms pay abhorrent sums to artists (and are giving them to ****nuts like Joe Rogan instead). Venues are barely getting by, at least those not sucked up by AEG. Touring is a game of YKW whack-a-mole. Even the big names are cashing out their catalogs like pension funds. Musicians are basically betting that Bandcamp Fridays are going to dig them out of these holes when the real problems are structural.

I don't believe that artists should be pleased with the free PR of music in figure skating. They're right. But nickel and diming athletes in a sport where there's no money to be had is ridiculous.

I think at a certain point in your competitive career—especially skaters who are at the Olympics—should perhaps rethink their approach to securing music. It honestly would not hurt skaters in the US if they approached the matter similar to a sync license. That + blanket licenses would offer some security for both artist and athlete.

For all we know, it might actually improve the overall quality of the music we hear.

 

[MacMadame]

I apologize if it is already in the thread, I can't find it

but what happened when the sued the German pair that used the music?

I don't believe it was ever established that they were sued.

I don't believe that artists should be pleased with the free PR of music in figure skating. They're right. But nickel and diming athletes in a sport where there's no money to be had is ridiculous.

NBC has plenty of money.

 

[manhn]

So you can't feel sorry for musicians in general because one particular group is suing someone?

I am concerned about the legal system clogged up with bogus lawsuits and people using the legal system to threaten people who don’t have the means to defend themselves.

As with Kevin, the concerns for the skaters in these matters have been belittled because the skaters aren’t that popular or the music sucks. Oh, they can just use last years program. The music is crappy anyway. It’s not like they really skate to the music anyway.

No, I don’t think posters are sympathetic to “both sides.”

 

[once_upon]

I don't believe it was ever established that they were sued

I think that was @my little pony point

 

[MacMadame]

I am concerned about the legal system clogged up with bogus lawsuits and people using the legal system to threaten people who don’t have the means to defend themselves.

As with Kevin, the concerns for the skaters in these matters have been belittled because the skaters aren’t that popular or the music sucks. Oh, they can just use last years program. The music is crappy anyway. It’s not like they really skate to the music anyway.

No, I don’t think posters are sympathetic to “both sides.”

I see a lot more people defending K/F than not. Even those of us who think the band may have a case haven't said anything negative about K/F.

 

[jenny12]

Exposure doesn’t pay the bills. I can’t say I blame this band. And hearing that K/F’s agent apparently blew them off shows that perhaps the suit was the only way they could get heard.

 

[MacMadame]

And hearing that K/F’s agent apparently blew them off

It certainly doesn't make them look good.

 

[Rukia]

It certainly doesn't make them look good.

To be fair we're only hearing that from the band and have no idea what the agent actually did or said.

 

[jenny12]

It certainly doesn't make them look good.

Sorry MacMadame. Do you mind including the “off” part of the quote?

 

[MacMadame]

Sorry MacMadame. Do you mind including the “off” part of the quote?

 

[nikjil]

You're entirely missing the point. It's not about the pairs making money although they might have made a little.

Musicians and artists need to eat. It's a horrible part of any musician's job to constantly have to chase for compensation regarding illicit use of one's music. Just like I hated having to chase people stealing my photos for their own websites or even for advertising leotard or equipment brands.

We live in a world where people feel entitled to just use what is online for their own purposes but you can't. Playing music needs a license. In gymnastics some feds (like the USA) pay licenses so gymnasts can use Disney music, smaller feds cannot.
In skating the licenses are venue-based but it's unsure if that covers all artists. Replays absolutely cause problems.

I would think they’d welcome the publicity which leads to more sales. Over the years ive purchased so much music because someone skated to it and I liked it.

 

[nikjil]

Copyrights laws also change over time, I was talking to a friend who was a director of a ballet company, who mentioned that as a result of some trade deal a bunch of classical music that was formerly in the public domain was out of it and they were having to pay for it.

 

[Aussie Willy]

I think when the Kerrs skated to the Porridge Men it really raised their profile. I think they were quite happy to get the additional exposure. My friend brought a copy of their CD after I showed her their program.

 

[MacMadame]

I would think they’d welcome the publicity which leads to more sales. Over the years ive purchased so much music because someone skated to it and I liked it.

It should be the artist's choice.

 

[overedge]

The information in the ISU bios is provided by the athletes and the federations, so if you are going to complain about who is being shitty point it in the right direction.

I assume the ISU proofreads that material for posting it or sharing it. It could do a way better job of making sure the information is as accurate as possible, especially when licensing and broadcast rights are involved. So, yes, I am going to point at the ISU because it's part of the problem.

 

[MacMadame]

I assume the ISU proofreads that material for posting it or sharing it. It could do a way better job of making sure the information is as accurate as possible, especially when licensing and broadcast rights are involved. So, yes, I am going to point at the ISU because it's part of the problem.

Have you seen some of the typos in those bios? I would be extremely surprised if the ISU did anything but post the material given to them.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Saying that someone should work for the exposure is a ridiculous argument and one that is used to exploit artists. Please let it die.

That being said, you can bring any lawsuit you want if you can find a lawyer to do it. However, it might be more appropriate when bringing a lawsuit to sue the people who actually were responsible for paying your money. Suing NBC if the rights weren’t properly obtained makes sense. But if venues and broadcasters are who owes copyright holders money, suing the skaters makes no sense and that’s where I have a problem.

However, skaters would probably do well in the future to make sure their music is actually available through one of the clearinghouse services rather than run the risk of having every single venue and broadcaster having to individually contract with the artist playing their music because that seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

[VGThuy]

Telling artists to just be grateful for the exposure rather than compensation they are legally entitled is just like telling unpaid interns they are getting paid in experience and getting their foot through the door when they have mounting student loan debt and rent and need to eat and would probably never get hired in that company.

 

[MacMadame]

uing NBC if the rights weren’t properly obtained makes sense. But if venues and broadcasters are who owes copyright holders money, suing the skaters makes no sense and that’s where I have a problem.

If the team blew off the artists' request, then suing them to stop them from using is the only recourse. People seem to think that these dudes what to make money off K/F because they are named in the suit. That is not necessarily the case. Most likely they want NBC to pay them what they are due and at that point, K/F can use the music. Alternatively, if they can't get the payment they want, then K/F have to stop using the music.

ETA or something similar along those lines.