CAS rules Valieva can compete - reactions/fallout, plus some details from the hearing

[bladesofgorey]

I wonder how many of those Russian teenagers training with Valieva suffer from "heart variations" and take hypoxene.

Probably all of them since I started looking this up and the only place the substance seems to be discussed is on doping message boards (mostly in Polish) that say it's the (for-now not banned) replacement for meldonium.

 

[Karina1974]

In light of how Valieva has been let off, no wonder other athletes like Sha’carri Richardson are aggrieved:

https://twitter.com/itskerrii/status/1493209274457153536?s=21

Well, gee, my dad died 6 months ago but I didn't start hitting the bottle or smoking pot, and I'm hardly a high-level competitive athlete the way she is. She certainly didn't show any of the internal discipline or self-control you would expect from someone at her level.

And let's not forget that she CHOSE to smoke pot, knowing she had Trials coming up.

 

[Vagabond]

Entire post

Someone's PR department has been busy. They even gave Valieva a set of talking points.

 

[tony]

Well, gee, my dad died 6 months ago but I didn't start hitting the bottle or smoking pot, and I'm hardly a high-level competitive athlete the way she is. She certainly didn't show any of the internal discipline or self-control you would expect from someone at her level.

And let's not forget that she CHOSE to smoke pot, knowing she had Trials coming up.

I'm kinda iffy about her given her history of problematic Tweets (and please, let's not have other posters start with her being a part of LGBTQ and therefore she can't be homophobic/whatever else) and I think even recently it's creeped back in, and I don't think she necessarily needed to stress that her mother died to get her point across. But I also think many athletes all around the world not named Valieva are trying to figure out why their punishments shut them out and she's still taking the ice later today. Richardson also admitted to what she did and Valieva's case, as we see, has been rushed 'for now' with bigger answers maybe coming soon.

Also, everyone has their own coping mechanisms. Sometimes they might not be the smartest or healthiest choices.

 

[overedge]

Let's swamp the IOC with our protests and ideas!

The IOC didn't listen when there were complaints about holding the Olympics in countries that don't respect human rights and free speech. I would be very surprised if they listen to even reasonable ideas about awarding medals to the clean athletes.

If you really want to hit the IOC where it hurts, tell them that you won't be watching any more broadcasts during the rest of the Games or buying any products from Olympic sponsors.

 

[Allskate]

In light of how Valieva has been let off, no wonder other athletes like Sha’carri Richardson are aggrieved:

https://twitter.com/itskerrii/status/1493209274457153536?s=21

Yeah, but the thing is that I don't think CAS was involved with Richardson. And, obviously, RUSADA was not involved either. It was the USADA that suspended her. They did not lift the suspension the way that RUSADA did. Two very different organizations were involved. It was not one organization engaging in a double standard.

But, I can see how Richardson would be upset. They both tested positive with their country's testing. But, Richardson did not take marijuana to enhance her performance. And it's becoming more and more clear that Valieva is taking substances to help with her training and/or performance. But Valieva gets to compete and Richardson did not.

 

[sk9tingfan]

I wonder how many of those Russian teenagers training with Valieva suffer from "heart variations" and take hypoxene.

If this is the drug that Valieva takes, https://rupharma.com/hypoxen/#product-additional-info , this is something that would never be sold over the counter in the US. It is not recognized by the FDA, nor can it be found via the National Library of Medicine application. However, it is primarily used in the study below, as an adjunct treatment of congestive heart failure.

https://www.revhipertension.com/rlh_3_2019/15theusehypoxene.pdf

Then overlay TMZ, then she is taking a potentially powerful cocktail whose interactions with Hypoxene are unknown. There's no way an elite athlete has that condition. This gets more shocking by the minute. I've attached the findings from The National Library of Medicine as to the clinical trials done for TMZ and some of the studies suggest some pretty detrimental impacts.

ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov

ChemIDplus and the Drug Information Portal Content Available From PubChem Only Starting December 2022. NLM Technical Bulletin. 2022 Jul–Aug

[Editor's note: The retirement date of ChemIDplus and Drug Information Portal was added.][Editor's note: Read "A Quick Reference to NLM's Drug and Chemical Resources".][Editor's note: Updates about the ChemID dataset was added to the end of the article.]On December 12, 2022, PubChem will serve...

druginfo.nlm.nih.gov

 

[becca]

Yeah, but the thing is that I don't think CAS was involved with Richardson. And, obviously, RUSADA was not involved either. It was the USADA that suspended her. They did not lift the suspension the way that RUSADA did. Two very different organizations were involved. It was not one organization engaging in a double standard.

But, I can see how Richardson would be upset. They both tested positive with their country's testing. But, Richardson did not take marijuana to enhance her performance. And it's becoming more and more clear that Valieva is taking substances to help with her training and/or performance. But Valieva gets to compete and Richardson did not.

In fairness probably a lot of athletes take vitamins they just try to make sure they are clean ones.

If this is the drug that Valieva takes, https://rupharma.com/hypoxen/#product-additional-info , this is something that would never be sold over the counter in the US. It is not recognized by the FDA, nor can it be found via the National Library of Medicine application. However, it is primarily used in the study below, as an adjunct treatment of congestive heart failure.

https://www.revhipertension.com/rlh_3_2019/15theusehypoxene.pdf

Then overlay TMZ, then she is taking a potentially powerful cocktail whose interactions with Hypoxene are unknown. There's no way an elite athlete has that condition. This gets more shocking by the minute. I've attached the findings from The National Library of Medicine as to the clinical trials done for TMZ and some of the studies suggest some pretty detrimental impacts.

ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov

ChemIDplus and the Drug Information Portal Content Available From PubChem Only Starting December 2022. NLM Technical Bulletin. 2022 Jul–Aug

[Editor's note: The retirement date of ChemIDplus and Drug Information Portal was added.][Editor's note: Read "A Quick Reference to NLM's Drug and Chemical Resources".][Editor's note: Updates about the ChemID dataset was added to the end of the article.]On December 12, 2022, PubChem will serve...

druginfo.nlm.nih.gov

If she is taking that one isn’t it possible than TMZ was by accident? I mean why take two?

 

[skatingguy]

If she is taking that one isn’t it possible than TMZ was by accident? I mean why take two?

It's certainly possible, but at the moment that's not what the people representing her are claiming.

 

[sk9tingfan]

In fairness probably a lot of athletes take vitamins they just try to make sure they are clean ones.

If she is taking that one isn’t it possible than TMZ was by accident? I mean why take two?

I frankly doubt it. Neither are "Vitamins". They are drugs that specifically act on the muscles of the heart as well as the heart vasculature to improve oxygen uptake and storage as well as other physiologic processes.

 

[ChelleC]

Probably all of them since I started looking this up and the only place the substance seems to be discussed is on doping message boards (mostly in Polish) that say it's the (for-now not banned) replacement for meldonium.

Remember the interview where Eteri says/implies they've found a replacement for meldonium? I think we all know what that replacement is.

I'd also expect it'll be coming to the list of banned substances very soon.

 

[Rukia]

Athletes don't accidentally mix up medicines. I mean we've discussed this endlessly about how careful they are about every single thing they put in their bodies. Anyway they're obviously not fighting that the test was positive, so I guess that's that.

 

[Muffin]

So many snowboarders have been affected by the ban on marijuana - from having their medals stripped to being suspended. When several US politicians complained about Sha'Carri Richardson's suspension, WADA responded that the US "is one of the most vocal and strong advocates for including cannabinoids on the prohibited list" so should not be pointing fingers elsewhere. Sha'Carri's defense of "I had to take drugs in order to cope with an emotional problem" did not support the argument that consuming marijuana is a healthy or harmless activity.

But still, Sha'Carri acknowledged that she broke the rule and accepted that a punishment had to be enforced. She, or anyone else who has suffered the consequences of a suspension, has every right to be upset that it's not being enforced on Valieva.

 

[bcash]

I agree with Duhamel that IOC should hold a ceremony now for US and Japanese athletes and allow them to experience celebrating with their teammates what they achieved at these Games. They can always give out upgraded medals at a later date after the investigation and legal case concludes.

 

[bladesofgorey]

I'm actually surprised that they didn't argue that it was tainted supplements and that makes me suspicious that the form of hypoxene she is taking isn't the one sold OTC, but possibly part of a compound formula? And maybe the compound was tainted but has other things they don't want to declare? I'm just spitballing of course but maybe the TMZ really was a surprise to everyone because they didn't expect it to be in the doses they were getting?

 

[Allskate]

If she is taking that one isn’t it possible than TMZ was by accident? I mean why take two?

I think the odds of her taking grandpa's medication by accident while she was at Russian Nationals are very, very slim.

She didn't necessarily take the two at the same time. And she may find that the banned one is more effective or has fewer side effects, so she switches from the banned one to the non-banned one to evade detection. I certainly have been prescribed alternative medications for the same condition before based on effectiveness and side effects. In any event, she appears to have a propensity for taking "heart" medications that would help her with her training. And she trains with a coach who has openly said that she was looking for a replacement for a medication that was banned.

 

[Bouffantrex]

Athletes don't accidentally mix up medicines. I mean we've discussed this endlessly about how careful they are about every single thing they put in their bodies. Anyway they're obviously not fighting that the test was positive, so I guess that's that.

Exactly. Tutberidze weighs her athletes daily and strictly regulates food/water intake along with other "supplements". There is no way in hell this was a "ooops, wrong medicine" situation.

 

[skatingguy]

@Bouffantrex have you always had that avatar or is that new today?

 

[Muffin]

Anyway they're obviously not fighting that the test was positive, so I guess that's that.

I fully expect her (them) to fight the positive test result from all angles. She (or rather, her mother and her lawyer) didn't say that the grandfather thing is definitely what happened.

 

[canbelto]

Ooh it's getting spicy on twitter:

https://twitter.com/taiskates/status/1493233409124143105?s=20&t=STTEf0YFCEjl7L2AY-Is-g

 

[Vash01]

I fully expect her (them) to fight the positive test result from all angles. She (or rather, her mother and her lawyer) didn't say that the grandfather thing is definitely what happened.

They should fight the positive test result. The sample sat in the lab for almost a month. What is the guarantee that no chemical changes took place during that period. I would ask how the lab protected the sample,and of course what took them so long to test only this sample (if they tested all others on time). Try to get as much information as possible.

I came across a case that happened 10 years ago (just found out about it). This was not during the Olympics but Diana Taurasi of WNBA was banned after a positive test. Later the Turkish lab retracted the test results and her ban was lifted.

Mistakes can be made, though they are rare.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Any excuse port in a storm for some fans, am I right?

 

[alexikeguchi]

I think the odds of her taking grandpa's medication by accident while she was at Russian Nationals are very, very slim.

She didn't necessarily take the two at the same time. And she may find that the banned one is more effective or has fewer side effects, so she switches from the banned one to the non-banned one to evade detection.

Actually I wonder if the intention was to take the one that's not on the banned list, and it was laced with the other, just like fentanyl finds its way into heroin. Since this is super shady to begin with, there probably isn't much regulation of what's actually in the medication billed as "hypoxene."

 

[Baby Yoda On Skates]

According to the CAS hearing, she's not denying that it showed up on the test and she's also taking something else.

Where are the doctors on FSU that understand doctorese for hypoxene?

 

[reckless]

They should fight the positive test result. The sample sat in the lab for almost a month. What is the guarantee that no chemical changes took place during that period. I would ask how the lab protected the sample,and of course what took them so long to test only this sample (if they tested all others on time). Try to get as much information as possible.

I came across a case that happened 10 years ago (just found out about it). This was not during the Olympics but Diana Taurasi of WNBA was banned after a positive test. Later the Turkish lab retracted the test results and her ban was lifted.

Mistakes can be made, though they are rare.

Sure, mistakes can’t be made, but samples are kept for up to 10 years for testing well after events using new screening techniques. That is why some 2012 medalists were stripped of medals in 2019.

In the other thread, I believe someone posted about cases where the delayed testing argument was made - and was always rejected.

 

[Vash01]

According to the CAS hearing, she's not denying that it showed up on the test and she's also taking something else.

Where are the doctors on FSU that understand doctorese for hypoxene?

Alexikeguchi, who posted just above you, is a doctor.

 

[Lilia A]

L-carnitine is used as a fat burner by fitness enthusiasts. As someone who actually has "heart variations", I was advised to stay away from it.
I don't know why someone with "heart variations" is being given an antihypoxic agent to treat it, but then again maybe I should get myself an appointment with their team anesthesiologist...

 

[altai_rose]

Well, US doctors don't use hypoxene but per google it looks like a coenzyme Q10/ubiquinone-derivative, an antioxidant.

You use ubiquinone as part of a 'mito cocktail' for individuals with mitochondrial disorders. It has some theoretical benefit but well, anecdotally, doesn't do much... And it's hard to get insurance coverage.

 

[Karina1974]

I remember one Olympics when the US ladies Gymnastics team was disqualified because the East Germans pointed out that the US alternate was touching a mat near the parallel bars which was not allowed. The girl was nowhere near touching or helping the girl on the bars (which was the context of the rule) but the rule is the rule regardless of the context (in this case) and the US lost the bronze which allowed 4th place EG to advance to the podium.

I recall a very young (minor, yes minor) Romanian gymnast who lost the all around gold medal because she failed a drug test due to a cold medicine. That case was clear cut. No -one complained that she was held accountable and DQ. I can't imagine how she must feel at the inconsistent and seemingly arbitrary application of supposed drug rules by the governing authority.

We weren't disqualified, but we did take a deduction, which ended in us getting 4th place. Rhonda Faehn had moved the springboard out of the way for the gymnast who was competing and she stayed on the podium rather than moving to get down because she thought she would be a distraction. That was 1988 in Seoul.

That was Andreea Raducan who lost the AA gold in 2000. She was hardly a "minor" gymnast, having competed at 1999 Worlds the year before. She was part of the World Champion team at the time, and also the reigning World Champion on floor, and the reigning silver medalist on beam at the time of the 2000 Olympics. She was also 16 (almost 17) during the Olympics, so she wouldn't have been a "protected person."

 

[Karina1974]

More recently, Sha'Carri Richardson who smoked pot after losing her biologic mother before the summer Olympics was bumped from competition. she owned up to it very publicly as an error in judgment and took her suspension without further comment.

Sha’Carri Richardson, who missed the Tokyo Games, asks why a Russian skater can compete after failing a doping test. (Published 2022)

Richardson, the sprinter who lost her spot on the U.S. team after testing positive for marijuana, asked for a “solid answer” on the difference between her case and Kamila Valieva’s.

t.co

Excepy now she's b*tching about it in light of the Valieva incident, and she's also playing the race card to boot.