Decisions of the ISU Council: Stockholm Worlds (March 22-28) still on; Synchro Worlds cancelled; 2021 Grand Prix schedule/Beijing test event announced

[Marco]

ISU Communication announces virtual opportunity for minimums https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-...-evaluation-isu-world-championships-2021/file

Thanks. In summary:

1. 2018/19 scores (along with 2019/20 and 2020/21) can count for TES mins at Worlds 2021;

2. Junior scores from the current and past 2 seasons can be used;

3. Failing the above two options, skaters can opt for virtual evaluations.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Thanks for continuing to make my point that I must’ve hit too close to home. You are very upset by what someone you don’t know didn’t say about you. Me thinks thou doth protest too much. Sometimes you can make your point better by keeping your fingers off the keyboard. But you’re making a point! have a good day

Oh please. You claimed everyone on the forum felt the exact same way and now you’re trying to claim that, because someone said, “no, we don’t, I don’t feel that way,” that means they secretly agree with you?

That has to be up there with the worst arguments ever.

 

[Frau Muller]

ISU Communication announces virtual opportunity for minimums https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-...-evaluation-isu-world-championships-2021/file

About the virtual evaluation option:

I’m glad that the video requirements (p. 6) include requirement that the camera ZOOM whenever the skater moves to a far end of the rink. That was my pet peeve from those USFS ISP Points vids this past fall.

 

[Carolla5501]

Oh please. You claimed everyone on the forum felt the exact same way and now you’re trying to claim that, because someone said, “no, we don’t, I don’t feel that way,” that means they secretly agree with you?

That has to be up there with the worst arguments ever.

If you are important enough to believe it every time you see the word we you were included then I guess it applies to you. Personally that’s not the way I think but apparently you do

if someone says “we “ You are included. Do you really believe that? That’s just hysterical

 

[Carolla5501]

Thanks. In summary:

1. 2018/19 scores (along with 2019/20 and 2020/21) can count for TES mins at Worlds 2021;

2. Junior scores from the current and past 2 seasons can be used;

3. Failing the above two options, skaters can opt for virtual evaluations.

seems reasonable. I assume USFS a will have their pair team do a virtual submission since I don’t see the “hoped for” waiver on 1/2 of the team met the requirements. Hopefully they will help them get a professional quality video

 

[Aceon6]

The ISU seems to be trying. It’s too bad they don’t have a “if you outscored a skater/team that already has mins at your national champs or at a Grand Prix, it‘s assumed you can make mins.”

 

[rfisher]

If NBC will give them permission to use the footage, the easiest thing for Zhou and K/F to do would be send video of their skate at US nationals. High quality video that can be easily critiqued.

 

[Karen-W]

If NBC will give them permission to use the footage, the easiest thing for Zhou and K/F to do would be send video of their skate at US nationals. High quality video that can be easily critiqued.

Vincent doesn't need to submit a video since they're allowing 2018-2019 season's scores to count. Same with Gabby Daleman.

I'm not sure that either SkAm or US Nats can be used for two reasons:

1) "The camera must be elevated and if possible situated close to where a Technical Panel would be seated on the judge/technical panel side of the rink (approximately at center ice) • The camera must remain in one place and remain stationary during the recording"

I don't believe the NBC footage can be used; but the USFS would have video from it's own TES camera position at the competition that should qualify.

2) "Skater(s) submit a day and time when they will record at the beginning of the video by holding a phone in front of the camera that shows the date and time they selected. * As an example, the week of February 10 – 16 is chosen and a Skater/Pair/Couple has a practice session from 14:00 to 18:00 each day. They submit on their Application form (Appendix B) that they will perform their Short Program/ Rhythm Dance on February 10 at 15:30 and their Free Program/Free Dance on February 11 at 17:00."

And further up in the document: "2.2. Deadline for Entries for Video Evaluation ORS will open for entries on February 5, 2021 and close on February 16, 2021 at 23:59 Central European Time. Once entered the Members/Skaters will have 72h to submit their videos for evaluation (see details in below para 2.3 with last videos submission on February 19, 2021 at 23:59 Central European Time. Any entries and/or videos received after the above-mentioned deadlines will under NO circumstances be accepted."

It sounds to me like the intent is that the videos be recorded between Feb 5 and Feb 19, though that isn't what is explicitly stated so who knows? I'm guessing the USFS will ask the ISU, before they submit K/F's entry, if they can just use the TES camera/video from US Nats or if K/F need to have fresh video from the 2/5-2/19 window.

 

[seabm7]

If NBC will give them permission to use the footage, the easiest thing for Zhou and K/F to do would be send video of their skate at US nationals. High quality video that can be easily critiqued.

Since ISU has stated the TES from the season 2018-2019 can be used, Zhou now has the TES minimum.

 

[Karen-W]

So, per the new ISU communication, with the 2018-19 season now counting, the following skaters are lacking minimums:

Ladies (3) - Zingas CYP, Rajicova SVK, Grm SLO

Men (4) - Carrillo MEX, Brain MON, Oddvoll Boe NOR, Caluza PHI

Pairs (6) - Choinard/Mayr AUT, Barquero/Zandron ESP, Broda/Betegon Martin ESP, Crafoord/Crafoord SWE, Herbrikova/Roulet SUI, Knierim/Frazer USA*

Dance (5) - Kuznetsova/Kolosovskyi AZE%, Khomyakova/Shapiro ISR*%, Moscheni/Fioretti ITA*, Muramoto/Takahashi JPN*, Zhata/Akalin TUR

The skaters/teams with an * are from countries with other eligible skaters to fill all of the spots allocated.

The dance teams with a % skated junior at competitions this fall, however they are registered as seniors for the upcoming LuMi Trophy in the Ukraine.

The rule really did help most of the ladies skaters and a couple of the men but none of the pairs or dance teams affected by the lack of competitions this season benefited from the allowance of either the 2018-19 season or junior scores achieved in previous seasons.

ETA - removed Lee KOR and G/B UKR from ladies & dance since they met the mins as juniors in previous seasons.

 

[seabm7]

So, per the new ISU communication, with the 2018-19 season now counting, the following skaters are lacking minimums:

Ladies (4) - Zingas CYP, Lee KOR*, Rajicova SVK, Grm SLO

Haein LEE as well as Seoyeong WI have the minimum now, since the new communcation acknowledges the junior results.

Note) Two threads are discussing the same ISU communication. It's confusing!

 

[Karen-W]

Haein LEE as well as Seoyeong WI have the minimum now, since the new communcation acknowledges the junior results.

Note) Two threads are discussing the same ISU communication. It's confusing!

I saw your other post and went to look at the junior lists as a result since Haein wasn't on the senior list; the UKR dance team also is now qualified using junior scores.

 

[Coco]

I wonder if video exists from either Skate America or Nationals that would meet that criteria. It's possible someone takes video from the judges' perspective to be used for training purposes.

 

[VGThuy]

Are there strict rules about camera angles and editing and such? What if someone submits one of those on ice perspective videos or does a truly bad editing job where they clearly substituted in good elements for bad ones in-performance or worse, they actually do a great editing job and no one can tell?

 

[Frau Muller]

Are there strict rules about camera angles and editing and such? What if someone submits one of those on ice perspective videos or does a truly bad editing job where they clearly substituted in good elements for bad ones in-performance or worse, they actually do a great editing job and no one can tell?

Yes, there are specific directives about camera placement and requirement to ZOOM when skater is at the far ends, thank goodness.

 

[Karen-W]

Oh, one other thing I noticed is there a limit to the # of entries each Fed can submit:

For Members entitled to 1 entry, only 1 Skater/Pair/Couple (including substitutes) may be entered. • For Members entitled to 2 or 3 entries, only 2 Skaters/Pairs/Couples (including substitutes) may be entered.

So, the USFS can submit K/F and C/H in pairs, as well as C/Y in dance (short by .03 in the RD as juniors), but Audrey Shin and Max Naumov are qualified as juniors.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Grm can't get a break . Hopefully she can submit a video and pass, even if she does end up on the Challenge Cup roster.

Carillo is still .2 short on the FS minimum, but it's amazing how much he improved over two.seasons.

 

[tony]

I think the ISU has gone above and beyond with this to make it as achievable as can be to everyone who would be capable of making the minimums. I initially questioned why 2019 wouldn’t count (adding it back in gives 2 seasons plus an extra 2 competitions of material to have qualified under) so glad to see it’s added back, and the fact that skaters seemingly have unlimited attempts to record a program within that window (corrected below) means most that have capability of making it, will.

 

[sus2850]

Grm can't get a break . Hopefully she can submit a video and pass, even if she does end up on the Challenge Cup roster.

Carillo is still .2 short on the FS minimum, but it's amazing how much he improved over two.seasons.

There is also a competition in Celje listed in about ten days, would it count for Grm's minimums? It is at her home rink, I guess.

 

[sk8nlizard]

I think the ISU has gone above and beyond with this to make it as achievable as can be to everyone who would be capable of making the minimums. I initially questioned why 2019 wouldn’t count (adding it back in gives 2 seasons plus an extra 2 competitions of material to have qualified under) so glad to see it’s added back, and the fact that skaters seemingly have unlimited attempts to record a program within that window means most that have capability of making it, will.

Do they have unlimited opportunities? When I read the communication it makes it sound like they have to chose a date and time to give to the ISU and they have to show the date/time on the phone before starting. So, that would mean one shot right? However, I am glad that they are giving this opportunity so more people can achieve minimums.

 

[kwanfan1818]

There is also a competition in Celje listed in about ten days, would it count for Grm's minimums? It is at her home rink, I guess.

As long as it meets the requirements to be an international competition: at least two eligible skaters from different members, eligible judges and tech panel (credentials, number, etc.), and a rink that meets requirements.

 

[tony]

Do they have unlimited opportunities? When I read the communication it makes it sound like they have to chose a date and time to give to the ISU and they have to show the date/time on the phone before starting. So, that would mean one shot right? However, I am glad that they are giving this opportunity so more people can achieve minimums.

Appendix C (didn't read far enough), shows they have to set their date. And within the video should be info that verifies this, so you're correct that this should be the case.

I'm reading it to see that once notified, the skater(s) have 72 hours to have provided a video, and the member fed must agree that the program was only tried one time. But unless it's officially proctored in some way, I'm not so sure that this can officially be verified.

Appendix B, to me, sounds like it just having been done within the three-day window, but that's not really clear.

 

[VGThuy]

I think the ISU did the best to accommodate as many skaters as possible, which seems what they wanted in the first place since this whole thing wasn't created to punish skaters, but simply limit the number of competitors at Worlds to a large but feasible and economical number.

 

[Sylvia]

ISU Communication [2370] announces virtual opportunity for minimums https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-...-evaluation-isu-world-championships-2021/file

MEN 34.00 64.00
LADIES 30.00 51.00
PAIR SKATING 27.00 44.00
ICE DANCE 33.00 47.00

Technical Score for the current & 2 previous season
(in accordance with ISU Communication 2370, para. 1.1)

Senior Men	Senior Ladies	Senior Pairs	Senior Ice Dance
Junior Men	Junior Ladies	Junior Pairs	Junior Ice Dance

 

[Marco]

Appendix C (didn't read far enough), shows they have to set their date. And within the video should be info that verifies this, so you're correct that this should be the case.

I'm reading it to see that once notified, the skater(s) have 72 hours to have provided a video, and the member fed must agree that the program was only tried one time. But unless it's officially proctored in some way, I'm not so sure that this can officially be verified.

Appendix B, to me, sounds like it just having been done within the three-day window, but that's not really clear.

Well, isn't it possible for a skater to adjust the date and time of a phone (as long as not set to 'automatic')?

Say a skater submits Feb 10, 4pm as the time on the documentation. I don't think it's that hard to tape the performance a day or two in advance but change the date of the phone forward to the designated date and time before showing it to the camera?! In theory this gives them unlimited chance to tape. In case ISU checks file creation dates, the skater can re-create the file (via some app?) at the right time to get rid of evidence that the video was pre-made, and then upload the new file to the specific link at the right time.

Not that I advocate for this of course.

 

[Erin]

Phil Hersh has the answer to the question people have been asking about whether Knierim and Frazier could just submit their US Nationals performance. Short answer: no.

https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/1356643889818578948?s=21

 

[tony]

Well, isn't it possible for a skater to adjust the date and time of a phone (as long as not set to 'automatic')?

Say a skater submits Feb 10, 4pm as the time on the documentation. I don't think it's that hard to tape the performance a day or two in advance but change the date of the phone forward to the designated date and time before showing it to the camera?! In theory this gives them unlimited chance to tape. In case ISU checks file creation dates, the skater can re-create the file (via some app?) at the right time to get rid of evidence that the video was pre-made, and then upload the new file to the specific link at the right time.

Not that I advocate for this of course.

Probably, yes. Although seeing how they have to explain how to turn the phone to landscape mode, I'm not so sure many (if any) people would actually be able to pull this off correctly.

 

[Sylvia]

I didn't mention Andrea MONTESINOS CANTU (MEX) earlier, who trains in Irvine, CA - she may take the opportunity to submit videos as well: 27.87 / 48.13 (from 2018) S

 

[jiejie]

I don't think the ISU needs to change the TES minimums for 2021 Worlds, but they should loosen up on the timing and method of how they were achieved, due to the extraordinary circumstances of the last year. Specifically:
1) Expand the look-back period for achieving TES minimums to at least the last 3 seasons, maybe 4. So at a minimum, SP and FS scores from the 2018-2019, 2019-2020, and the essentially nonexistent 2020-2021 seasons could all be counted as valid. Possibly even include the 2017-2018 season as well. Existing rules that SP and FS minimums don't have to be from the same competition remain.
2) Allow the (senior) TES minimums achieved at an ISU junior competition during the expanded look-back period, to also count as valid.
3) For new teams in pairs and dance, allow the TES minimums attained by either partner in a prior partnership to count, subject to video review of the newly-formed team by an ISU panel.

Very gratified to see that the ISU listened to me. (post #50 of this thread)

 

[MacMadame]

I think we can call it the Knierim/Frazier rule.

I think we should call it the Cantu rule. Or the MEX rule since two skaters from Mexico still don't have minimums and this will help them.

Very gratified to see that the ISU listened to me. (post #50 of this thread)

Listened to all of us who made these suggestions which are all perfectly reasonable while others poo-pooed them and acted like they were outrageous and only suggested to help our favorites. I guess they wanted all those skaters from small feds who how now have the minimum to suffer so that USFS skaters got punished.