ISU to evaluate feasibility of 2020-21 skating season

[Japanfan]

I just read a new German article about a meeting between the IOC and Abe were they came to the conlusion that things look goog for Tokyo . It included the sentence though, that the IOC wants to make sure that athletes will be vaccinated if a vaccine is available, which I find a bit questionable for Tokyo.

That's certainly a very good idea when tons of vaccine is available one day, but I don't see that happening before summer 2021 and vaccinating athletes so thta they can take part in a big event when the vaccine is supposed to be used for people who need it the most would send a really shitty message IMO.

I take your point, but would also point out that Olympics are very uplifting and exciting to many people, including myself. If getting an early vaccination is necessary for skaters to attend an OG, I'm okay with it.

 

[Debbie S]

But they won't give points for it. Would there even be prize money?

Who knows? Obviously, the ISU can do whatever they choose and is feasible.

 

[MsZem]

Well my issue is with considering athletes "high priority individuals" during that phase of vaccinations.

Morally and ethically that seems pretty far fetched.

Given recent news, I expect vaccinations to be be available to high-priority individuals within the next few months, well before the Olympics. Even if Olympic athletes are not part of the first wave of people to get vaccines, it should be doable.

Moderna just announced stage 3 results with a high efficacy rate, BTW. So that may be two effective vaccines, well before the Olympics.

 

[Miezekatze]

I see the challenges more with the distribution and actual vaccination process.

The timeline for vaccinating 55% to 60% of Germans for example is estimated between 1 (optimistic) and 4 years (pessimistic).

So I'm just sceptical about this idea of vaccinating all those millions of people in just a few months, especially considering that you need 2 doses for everybody.

Of course I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong

 

[MsZem]

I think it will be a more than big task to vaccinate the most vulnerable and medical personnel until summer 2021.

Here's an interesting argument advocating for not vaccinating the most vulnerable people first:

The Vulnerable Can Wait. Vaccinate the Super-Spreaders First

Who gets priority when Covid-19 shots are in short supply? Network theorists have a counterintuitive answer: Start with the social butterflies.

bit.ly

 

[seabm7]

French National has been canceled,

FFSG

www.ffsg.org

According to this notice, FFSG is waiting for the ISU directives, which would be announced before the mid of December.

 

[Colonel Green]

Well my issue is with considering athletes "high priority individuals" during that phase of vaccinations.

Morally and ethically that seems pretty far fetched.

People really like sports, so athletes will be a major priority. Indeed, we’ve already seen that with the testing phase.

 

[MacMadame]

are they still doing that new thing where if a country earns 2 spots at Worlds thanks to 1 skater only, a different skater needs to secure the second spot at the qualifying event to prove the country deserves it?

I've never heard of this.

 

[skatingguy]

I've never heard of this.

It was part of the changes to the qualifying rules made after 2018.

2022 Olympic Qualifying Changes?

https://www.isu.org/docman-documents-links-2/2022-beijing/qualification-systems-3/22994-figure-skating-v1-0/file This is taken from a post by @skatingguy in the Trash Can, but I'm going to further elaborate on what I understand to be a new rule: First, as was pointed out there, the quota for...

www.fsuniverse.net

 

[acraven]

Given the difficulty many countries (especially the US) have had with testing, I agree that the actual process of vaccinating people will probably not go smoothly. However, Dr. Fauci indicated in an interview a few days ago (after the Pfizer announcement) that he thought anyone who wanted the vaccination in the US should be able to get it by the end of April. It was clear he was assuming many people (the deniers, etc.) would not be inclined to take it that early. That statement seemed pretty optimistic to me, but Fauci is usually measured in his predictions, so...

 

[miffy]

It was part of the changes to the qualifying rules made after 2018.

2022 Olympic Qualifying Changes?

https://www.isu.org/docman-documents-links-2/2022-beijing/qualification-systems-3/22994-figure-skating-v1-0/file This is taken from a post by @skatingguy in the Trash Can, but I'm going to further elaborate on what I understand to be a new rule: First, as was pointed out there, the quota for...

www.fsuniverse.net

Thank you, I genuinely did wonder if I dreamt that

 

[MacMadame]

It was part of the changes to the qualifying rules made after 2018.

Thx. I must not have been paying attention.

Also, are there any disciplines where this impacts the top 10 of skaters?

 

[skatingguy]

Thx. I must not have been paying attention.

Also, are there any disciplines where this impacts the top 10 of skaters?

I can't remember whose a top 10 skater anymore.

 

[Frau Muller]

People really like sports, so athletes will be a major priority. Indeed, we’ve already seen that with the testing phase.

So is it going to come down to “big money” dictating priority in receiving vaccines? Football and pop culture heroes ahead of ordinary folks with health risks or others most vulnerable? It will be very interesting to see how all of this is rolled out.

Speaking for the US: Hopefully with the change in administration, “big business interests” will not jump to the front of the line.

 

[Frau Muller]

Given the difficulty many countries (especially the US) have had with testing, I agree that the actual process of vaccinating people will probably not go smoothly. However, Dr. Fauci indicated in an interview a few days ago (after the Pfizer announcement) that he thought anyone who wanted the vaccination in the US should be able to get it by the end of April. It was clear he was assuming many people (the deniers, etc.) would not be inclined to take it that early. That statement seemed pretty optimistic to me, but Fauci is usually measured in his predictions, so...

I sure hope that you (and Dr. Fauci) are right!

 

[Scott512]

Marketing


No, it isn't. Such a competition could not give any of the benefits of Worlds to the skaters so they'd be spending time and money on a meaningless endevour.

How could a world championship even if it's virtual be meaningless? It's still a better option than not having world's at all which is where we are heading. It would be a very unique World Championship that's for sure. I think they should try the virtual championships that Europeans and 4 CC first. I will also put less people at risk to catch you know what. Live Well more than six billion people in the world we are heading for a very Bleak future health-wise so accommodations will have to be made when the world is being hammered by a virus. There are no perfect answers. to me any figure skating that can be seen around the world is better than no figure skating.

 

[MacMadame]

How could a world championship even if it's virtual be meaningless?

Because it won't be a "real" WC. If you don't get points and prize money and it doesn't award slots to next year's Worlds and Olympics, then it's just a competition like any other. You can call it Worlds, but it's not Worlds because it doesn't do any of the things that Worlds does.

 

[Vagabond]

The ISU's Rules require a "real" competition at one rink, with a Technical Panel, judges, and a cameraman.

The ISU has previously cancelled Championships, and not just because of active wars. It can do so again.

 

[SpeedySucks]

If the ISU wants Worlds to happen this season, they should consider moving the event to Japan. Japan just had success with an international gymnastics event, and they could use the event as another preparation for the protocol that will be used at the Olympics.

 

[gkelly]

Because it won't be a "real" WC. If you don't get points and prize money and it doesn't award slots to next year's Worlds and Olympics, then it's just a competition like any other. You can call it Worlds, but it's not Worlds because it doesn't do any of the things that Worlds does.

Well, if it's open to skaters representing ISU member federations from the whole world (with whatever rules are necessary for controlling the size of the event, and with the caveat that some federations may not be able to participate even though they're allowed to, e.g., if all their rinks are closed due to *****) and it awards the title "World Champion" for that year, I think that would make it a world championship.

Figure skating Worlds didn't always have prize money or award points or slots toward any other purpose -- even the next year of its own existence early on. (Just as entries at Four Continents are still unrelated to results at the previous year's 4Cs.) Just because Worlds results can be and have been used for those purposes doesn't make them the defining purpose of the event.

Knowing that conditions (as opposed to ISU decisions) did not allow every federation to participate, or that the content of the performances or the manner of scoring might be different than usual, might put an asterisk beside the title in everyone's mind in comparing the prestige of 2021 virtual Worlds vs. other years. But that's not the same as not actually being the designated global championship for that season.

 

[sk8girl]

Figure skating Worlds didn't always have prize money or award points or slots toward any other purpose -- even the next year of its own existence early on. (Just entries at Four Continents are still unrelated to results at the previous year's 4Cs.) Just because Worlds results can be and have been used for those purposes doesn't make them the defining purpose of the event.

I agree. Worlds is the annual event that's open to all ISU members and that awards world championship titles, medals, and placements. Anything else that happens to be added onto that (prize money/points/slots) is a bonus, but not the core reason to hold a world championship.

Athletes want to compete and see where they rank against the rest of the world - that's the core purpose of a world championship. It remains to be seen if the ISU is really willing to consider any kind of alternative format for Worlds anyway, but if (huge HUGE "if") they were to come up with a safe and practical option that works for all the skaters, I think that event would be worthwhile. And, it would still be Worlds if all ISU members are able to participate and world titles/medals/rankings are awarded. (Yes, more big "ifs" there.) Would it be a normal Worlds? Not at all, but these aren't normal times...

Do I think this is remotely likely to actually happen? No, not at all, lol.

 

[Scott512]

Because it won't be a "real" WC. If you don't get points and prize money and it doesn't award slots to next year's Worlds and Olympics, then it's just a competition like any other. You can call it Worlds, but it's not Worlds because it doesn't do any of the things that Worlds does.

I will leave it up to the figure skaters if they want to do a virtual world championship or miss it for the second year in a row. It's a worthwhile compromise to consider. If not then the sport loses out big-time. Figure skating is already a niche sport. They need to grow the popularity of the sport and that's hard to do in covid-19 when it's does not seem like it's going to be going away anytime soon if ever.

 

[MacMadame]

I will leave it up to the figure skaters if they want to do a virtual world championship or miss it for the second year in a row.

The ISU has to decide this is a good idea before the skaters get to choose. I don't think the ISU would do this because it would be hard to avoid cheating.

 

[overedge]

People really like sports, so athletes will be a major priority. Indeed, we’ve already seen that with the testing phase.

IMO health care workers, front line responders, and essential service workers will be a major priority. People like sports, but ultimately sports are entertainment, so they're not essential. And even if sports do become a priority I would guess that big money close-contact team sports will be among the first, not figure skaters.

 

[Colonel Green]

IMO health care workers, front line responders, and essential service workers will be a major priority. People like sports but ultimately sports are entertainment, so they're not essential. And even if sports do become a priority I would guess that big money close-contact team sports will be among the first, not figure skaters.

The discussion was whether the Summer Olympics will happen — nations will make sure their Olympic teams are ready to go.

 

[skatfan]

I take your point, but would also point out that Olympics are very uplifting and exciting to many people, including myself. If getting an early vaccination is necessary for skaters to attend an OG, I'm okay with it.

I guess I’m on a different page - I’d rather save lives of medical personnel and vulnerable populations first. If any of those folks get bumped, I’ll be angry.

 

[overedge]

The discussion was whether the Summer Olympics will happen — nations will make sure their Olympic teams are ready to go.

IMO they will face a lot of backlash if the Olympic athletes get the vaccine before the front-line workers and health-care providers do. Or before other workers in high-contact jobs, like teachers.

 

[Scott512]

I sure you (and Dr. Fauci) are right!

I'm hoping figure skating and future Olympics especially the next to go off without a hitch but I think there's only a very slim chance of that happening because of the virus that has infected the world like none other in modern history.

Fauci isn't right all the time or even a lot of the time. Remember he said covid-19 was a miniscule problem in America on February 29th of this year? That's a massive not minuscule mistake he made. Always err on the side of caution especially a doctor and Fauci is the doctor for the whole country. He also said we did not need masks for 3 months knowing damn well we did and who knows how many millions of people in this country got covid and spread it because the main doctor to teach the country about covid said we didn't need masks.

I think athletes will take a vaccine and Frontline workers obviously. I'm not sure I will at this point. But I'm glad operation warp speed has come to fruition and we're going to have something very soon for the public.

I would like to learn about the side effects before I would take it. Hopefully the side effects won't be too bad.

 

[overedge]

Fauci isn't right all the time or even a lot of the time. Remember he said *********-19 was a miniscule problem in America on February 29th of this year? That's a massive not minuscule mistake he made. Always err on the side of caution especially a doctor and Fauci is the doctor for the whole country. He also said we did not need masks for 3 months knowing damn well we did and who knows how many millions of people in this country got ********* and spread it because the main doctor to teach the country about ********* said we didn't need masks.

Fauci adjusted his advice as there was more knowledge about the v*r*s and how it was or wasn't spread, like pretty much every other public health official around the world. It's absurd to attack him for not having perfect powers of prediction, and it's absurd to attack him for making "mistakes" when he was working with the best possible information at the time.

Also don't forget that a lot of what Fauci was trying to do to control the spread of the v*r*s was undercut by a certain orange buffoon and his followers, who kept insisting that the v*r*s would go away on its own and that masks, handwashing, social distancing, etc. were not necessary.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I'm hoping figure skating and future Olympics especially the next to go off without a hitch but I think there's only a very slim chance of that happening because of the ***** that has infected the world like none other in modern history.

Fauci isn't right all the time or even a lot of the time. Remember he said *********-19 was a miniscule problem in America on February 29th of this year? That's a massive not minuscule mistake he made. Always err on the side of caution especially a doctor and Fauci is the doctor for the whole country. He also said we did not need masks for 3 months knowing damn well we did and who knows how many millions of people in this country got ********* and spread it because the main doctor to teach the country about ********* said we didn't need masks.

I think athletes will take a vaccine and Frontline workers obviously. I'm not sure I will at this point. But I'm glad operation warp speed has come to fruition and we're going to have something very soon for the public.

I would like to learn about the side effects before I would take it. Hopefully the side effects won't be too bad.

Brilliant analysis.

I will be right there not taking that vaccine with you.
Given that "facts" change al. Almost daily... I will be waiting to see what happens before I get in line for the shots.