U.S. Pairs 2019-20 season - News & Updates, Part X

Spiralgraph

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I have to disagree with the comment that Ashley and Tim have big trick(s). Level 4 doesn't = big tricks. Past jumps that are often inconsistent what big tricks are you talking about?


Indeed, I might ask you the same question. Since all the top pairs try to perform the same elements i.e. triple twist, two triple throws in a free skate, three level 4 lifts, it's my contention that a USA pair (or a Canadian or a Russian et ali) cannot win a championship medal of any color without executing big tricks successfully.

Or do you mean big in the meaning of height or amplitude?

Since we are not going to agree on this and I don't want to bore myself or others with continuing this conversation, I'll leave it at that. I wish you well and everyone here in this age of illness prevention and anxiety.
 

Bob Mc

Active Member
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Oh thanks. That's interesting. Do either McIsaac or Sadusky have any prior connection with Dalilah or Colorado Springs? I hope they don't get lost in the shuffle there. Dalilah has a lot of teams, but she is good in particular at teaching the throw twist and other basics, so hopefully it'll be a plus all the way around. I think they can be a good team with hard work, finding their style and some good luck too!

Have you heard whether any of Peterson/Evora's teams are moving to Michigan with them?
To my knowledge Nate Bartholomew and his new partner have relocated to California to train, don't know anyone planning to go to Michigan.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Frangi & Piazza & Paul & Hektor & Theo. Oh My! 😝
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Wait! What? I’m trying to read all the posts but Nathan is continuing in Paris skating? And has a partner?

All of this and we could never find Goddess Caitlin Yankowskas a partner who was a reigning US champion and reigning top six in the Worlds?

Well congratulations to him!
 

PairSkater12345

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345
Indeed, I might ask you the same question. Since all the top pairs try to perform the same elements i.e. triple twist, two triple throws in a free skate, three level 4 lifts, it's my contention that a USA pair (or a Canadian or a Russian et ali) cannot win a championship medal of any color without executing big tricks successfully.

Or do you mean big in the meaning of height or amplitude?

Since we are not going to agree on this and I don't want to bore myself or others with continuing this conversation, I'll leave it at that. I wish you well and everyone here in this age of illness prevention and anxiety.
Your comment about "boring yourself " is condescending, unnecessary and unbecoming.
 

pearskater

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Oh thanks. That's interesting. Do either McIsaac or Sadusky have any prior connection with Dalilah or Colorado Springs? I hope they don't get lost in the shuffle there. Dalilah has a lot of teams, but she is good in particular at teaching the throw twist and other basics, so hopefully it'll be a plus all the way around. I think they can be a good team with hard work, finding their style and some good luck too!

Have you heard whether any of Peterson/Evora's teams are moving to Michigan with them?
Not sure about who is moving to Michigan. I do know that Brynne has trained there previously and may have family there.
 

pairskatingfan

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325
Oh thanks. That's interesting. Do either McIsaac or Sadusky have any prior connection with Dalilah or Colorado Springs? I hope they don't get lost in the shuffle there. Dalilah has a lot of teams, but she is good in particular at teaching the throw twist and other basics, so hopefully it'll be a plus all the way around. I think they can be a good team with hard work, finding their style and some good luck too!

Have you heard whether any of Peterson/Evora's teams are moving to Michigan with them?

What teams? I can't think of anyone they still coach.
 

aftershocks

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I’m trying to read all the posts but Nathan is continuing in Paris skating? And has a partner?

Interesting that Nate is moving to Cali. I wonder if he's heading to the Irvine rink? That's definitely a good place to be for singles and pairs these days.

Nate's new partner must be Katie McBeath. They looked good together practicing a throw posted by Jim Peterson last November. But nothing was ever officially announced. Katie posted an Instagram message in January that looking back seems to hint she's moving toward a new chapter in her skating career.
ETA: As she's a hometown Cleveland girl, extra special good luck to Katie, wherever her skating is taking her next. :cheer2:


What teams? I can't think of anyone they still coach.

I guess you know better than me then, and can answer your own question. :p
 
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aftershocks

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If anyone is interested in Ash and daddy Ash (Peter) doing their outdoor workout..... lollll


:lol: Daddy Ash is a taskmaster! ;)

Ashley with her natural darker hair color is looking good. I wonder why she stopped the coloring gig. Maybe not able to get to her salon hairstylist these days? Unless she did her own hair coloring and just decided to go back to natural, which can be easier.


ETA:
All of this and we could never find Goddess Caitlin Yankowskas a partner who was a reigning US champion and reigning top six in the Worlds?

Yep, that was very curious. Caitlin did join up with Josh Reagan briefly, but that seemed more like a whirlwind romance that quickly fizzled, rather than a true pairs partnership. Caitlin subsequently looked very good with Hamish Gaman and they won the 2015 British pairs championship. But sadly the U.K. is not the powerhouse in figure skating they once were, and Y/G struggled financially and training-wise, which apparently led to their split. Unless there were injury or other reasons involved.

I get what you mean about Caitlin never finding a viable pairs partnership in the U.S. It could be partly due to her being a relatively tall pairs girl. She especially looked good with her taller partners in Coughlin and Gaman.

Plus, let's face it that pairs ladies seeking partners are more plentiful than capable male partners who are usually snapped up and have their pick of females to choose between. Am I right?
 
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skylark

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339
They skated clean and got the most points with the less difficult elements. Teams that most often skate clean with more difficult elements made big mistakes. C/L backed into the win.
I would agree with you regarding C/L's national championship. C/L did complete their elements and did them well. Simply their elements were not as strong as the other key teams especially when it comes to the lifts, and in a way they backed into winning. Put is this way if everyone delivered there best performance who would win? It's about chasing points and I would rather have the big tricks like Alexa and Chris did with the twist than relying on someone else to make a mistake.

If everyone delivered their best performance, we don't know who would win. We can look at the scores and the past performances during the season, but we still wouldn't know who would win. Anything can happen in figure skating; that's why we watch it. Having said that, if Tarah and Danny had completed their aborted lift at Nats and scored high on it (a Group 3 level 4), they might still have finished anywhere from 3 to 6 points below Ashley and Tim. For one example, at the IdF 2018, that lift earned T&D 6.63 points. K/K had a difficult year, and that's part of the sport too.

I disagree with your opinion that Ashley and Tim "backed into the win." Ashley and Tim delivered at that competition, and also at 2019 4CC and Worlds. They had to have big tricks to win any color championship medal, as Spiralgraph said. They also performed all their other elements at a high level, gaining excitement and momentum as the FS progressed. That's what happened with Alexa and Chris's SP at 2020 Nats, and with Jessica and Brian's FS. That's the way it works.

A&T had a difficult 2019-20 season. Just like every other US Pairs champion has had in their subsequent season, since 2014, including Alexa and Chris, twice.

Having said all this .... there are many other factors than big tricks that make a great pair. For me, Ashley and Tim elevate all their elements with their passionate performances and their musicality. Emotion invites audiences in. The power of their performance is elevated when you're in the arena. I love their synchronicity, their conviction, their presence, their matching lines, and their dedication to improving year by year. These are all, by the way, things that elevate Sui and Han above the rest. Yes, S/H have high quality, consistent technique. And if you look at their skates since 2012, they improved vastly over the years, one step at a time. Most of the teams A&T are compared to have been partnered together since 2012, as opposed to A&T together since 2016.

Ashley and Tim are one of my many favorite teams because of the experience I have when I watch them skate, either in the arena or by video. Beauty, passion, attention to music, connection are more important to me than who wins. Sure, I like it when they win, but ultimately I want to see them continue skating at the World's Top Ten level, because I greatly enjoy their skating and their partnership.
 

skylark

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339
:lol: Daddy Ash is a taskmaster! ;)

Ashley with her natural darker hair color is looking good. I wonder why she stopped the coloring gig. Maybe not able to get to her salon hairstylist these days? Unless she did her own hair coloring and just decided to go back to natural, which can be easier.


ETA:


Yep, that was very curious. Caitlin did join up with Josh Reagan briefly, but that seemed more like a whirlwind romance that quickly fizzled, rather than a true pairs partnership. Caitlin subsequently looked very good with Hamish Gaman and they won the 2015 British pairs championship. But sadly the U.K. is not the powerhouse in figure skating they once were, and Y/G struggled financially and training-wise, which apparently led to their split. Unless there were injury or other reasons involved.

Here's Ashley's IG when she first got the darker hair color (March 6) and thanked J. Weir for connecting her with a colorist in NJ. https://www.instagram.com/p/B9ZsbRwlG6y/. I love the way the color has faded a bit since then and her natural color looks even better, IMO. Well, I'm freaked out by the eyebrow make-up, but I often prefer seeing figure skaters use a little less make-up.

I recently read up on Caitlin Yankowskas and was surprised by this:

She skated for seven weeks with Italian skater Matteo Guarise but the pairing did not go further because they were unable to agree on which country to represent.[11
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlin_Yankowskas
 
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aftershocks

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Caitlin Yankowskas particularly looked lovely with Hamish Gaman because they both had a dancerly, elegant style together. Gaman also formerly competed as an ice dancer, and it shows:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzPtjR6a2Vc sp 2015 Euros

They skated at a Challenge event in Graz, Austria, in 2013. Apparently this was sometime after they had paired, since they were only attempting double for their elements:

If finances was the main issue for their splitting, what a shame they couldn't obtain funding and/or sponsorship to continue through 2018 Olympics. They had decent tech talent, comparable to some lower to mid-level teams today, and their aesthetic talent is superior than most teams skating today. Still, they needed more height on their 3-twist, and more work on their lifts (precision, position variety and difficulty). They had excellent basics, but could have benefited from developing more speed. Their throws were decent with good height, and their death spiral was good. They were at an okay level with jumps but that wasn't their strong suit, nor were they consistent or particularly comfortable to that point on the sbs jumps. Their spins were good, but they needed to develop better unison. Richard Gauthier was their coach.

Sadly, at Euros 2015 in the fp, after a very good sp (linked above), they were clobbered by the judges after Gaman fell badly on their opening combo jumping pass. That rattled them both and they couldn't recover in time, flubbing their next two moves: death spiral, and a throw jump. Caitlin had a hand down on their second throw, and they looked unsteady on both basic lifts. Their overall result at 2015 Euros must have lowered their spirits and hurt their funding chances. Still, they were both as expressive and elegant as some of the best artistic pairs we've ever seen. Caitlin could never catch any breaks it seems in her pairs career. I hope she's been happy in her life off-the-ice. In the end, that's what matters most.
 

aftershocks

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17,317
She skated for seven weeks with Italian skater Matteo Guarise but the pairing did not go further because they were unable to agree on which country to represent.[11
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlin_Yankowskas

Whoa, what a loss! OMG, they would surely have looked delicious together! :swoon: :watch:

Other sadly unfortunate losses to pairs: Marley/Brubaker; Yankowskas/Coughlin; Davis/Ladwig (after he and Evora split because she retired). So add in Yankowskas/Guarise, and Yankowskas/Gaman. I suppose at the point Caitlin tryed out with Guarise, she was still hoping to represent the U.S. By the time she paired with Gaman, she wasn't as particular about country representation. She should have jumped on the chance with Guarise!

Lindsay Davis split prematurely with Ladwig because Marley left the sport with an eating disorder, and Davis was enticed to tryout with Brubaker. While Davis and Brubaker were a good physical match, their styles and temperaments did not go together at all. Davis looked much more promising on the ice with Ladwig, and she should have stuck with him.

Rockne Brubaker then had the chance to tryout with Amanda Evora, and I've heard they really looked good together. But it was a no go because, full circle, they could not come to a mutual agreement on training location logistics, and moreover because Evora already had competing off-ice commitments since her retirement. I also think if she'd come back and had success with Brubaker, she likely felt it would have hurt Ladwig who was disappointed she wished to retire when he wanted to continue. In any case, Ladwig ended up hurt anyway because Davis (who'd made him promises) quickly quit after their promising debut season, to tryout with the excellent, partnerless Brubaker. Indeed Rockne Brubaker was another great pairs skater who couldn't catch any breaks in his career.

Apparently when Matteo Guarise switched from championship roller skating to the ice, he paired briefly with a Russian skater. Then he partnered with a little known U.S. skater, Kaela Pflumm, who was injured during their training, so they never competed together. After that he must have tried out with Caitlin, and they couldn't come to an agreement. Then Guarise found a decent partner in Italian countrywoman, Nicole Della Monica, and they built a good career together. They haven't recently been able to capitalize on top level breakthrough opportunities though, apparently due to competition nerves and injuries.
 

aftershocks

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Here's Ashley's IG when she first got the darker hair color (March 6) and thanked J. Weir for connecting her with a colorist in NJ. https://www.instagram.com/p/B9ZsbRwlG6y/.

Ooooh whoa. I missed seeing this Instagram post initially. Looking sassy, Ash. :rollin:

I haven't had a good look at Ashley's hair currently. You say the color has softened as it's faded a bit over time, and you think her natural shade is even better. Okay. I do think the dark, more natural color does something interesting for her blue eyes (ETA: Actually, Ash's eyes look to be blue-green, and they do 'pop' with her dark, more natural hair color). Her eyes are enhanced and stand out more. So she should go with her natural do! It takes a bit of getting used to since we've always seen Ashley with blond hair. But let's get real. Brunettes and redheads are truly the ones who have more fun, naturally! Tee hee! ;)

Johnny is good to have on your side, stylistically. And of course, he's just generally fun to be around. He seems to be friendly with Ashley and Timothy, as they've skated in shows together and apparently hit it off personally.

Well, I'm freaked out by the eyebrow make-up, but I often prefer seeing figure skaters use a little less make-up.

That's currently the on-trend style for brows. I prefer a less painted brow, but full is nice with just a bit more natural look and line. For me, it's the same with eyelashes. I like a lush, full look that's more natural than overly heavy and artificial.
 
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AngieNikodinovLove

Frangi & Piazza & Paul & Hektor & Theo. Oh My! 😝
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Brenda_Bottems

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Forgive me,I thought this was the US pairs thread for tried-and-true fans of US pairs only? I certainly was not expecting dubious advice regarding grooming of the eyebrows.

I believe Alexa Knierim and Brandon Frazer possess the potential to be the mostly highly decorated pair since Rena Inoue+John Baldwin.
 

skylark

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339
say what now?

@aftershocks did you know?

If she had a chance with Guarise I mean.... Id be like we could skate for and represent The Asteroid Belt, I dont care as long as we are out there!!!!!
Wait! What? I’m trying to read all the posts but Nathan is continuing in Paris skating? And has a partner?

All of this and we could never find Goddess Caitlin Yankowskas a partner who was a reigning US champion and reigning top six in the Worlds?

Well congratulations to him!
I remember that Marina Zueva took Caitlin immediately under her wing, from the summer of 2011 on. There was an article in the Detroit Free Press quoting Marina as being excited about coaching a pair for the first time in a long time. She liked Caitlin's ballet influence and artistry. I recently re-watched Caitlin and John's FS at 2011 nationals, and she was indeed mesmerizing. It wasn't just her elements; it was her artistry that made one almost forget to breathe.

Since I read that Wiki article, I can't watch a Della Monica/Guarise program without thinking about what might have been. Dang.

About Nate ... I'm so, so happy for him, hearing the report that he's already in California working with a new partner. Nate's love of the sport, of performing and giving it all he's got, really lifts his skating to another level. I'm looking forward to seeing what this new team will bring.
 

skylark

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339
I believe Alexa Knierim and Brandon Frazer possess the potential to be the mostly highly decorated pair since Rena Inoue+John Baldwin.

You may be right. All I know is, for the longest time, nearly everyone who raved about Alexa and Chris used the word "potential." If potential were all it took, their US and international results would look very different.
 

skylark

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Ooooh whoa. I missed seeing this Instagram post initially. Looking sassy, Ash. :rollin:

I haven't had a good look at Ashley's hair currently. You say the color has softened as it's faded a bit over time, and you think her natural shade is even better. Okay. I do think the dark, more natural color does something interesting for her blue eyes (ETA: Actually, Ash's eyes look to be blue-green, and they do 'pop' with her dark, more natural hair color).

Sorry, I may not have been clear. I've only seen Ashley's IG posts, and to me her hair color looks more faded since last month. I'm assuming that what I'm seeing now is her natural hair color or close to it. And the New Jersey hair stylist implied it on Ashley's "plant mama" picture, commenting, "aren't you glad we made your hair brown?" before the quarantine. https://www.instagram.com/p/B-S5Lg_jqdH/

I agree with you about Ashley's eyes popping more with brown hair. :) Really striking.
 

Carolla5501

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You may be right. All I know is, for the longest time, nearly everyone who raved about Alexa and Chris used the word "potential." If potential were all it took, their US and international results would look very different.


Don't forget their "world class elements" . Apparently side by side jumps were not really an element considering how often I heard that they had "world class elements" . There's always be a lot of "eyes wide shut" with Alexa and Chris.
 

aftershocks

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I believe Alexa Knierim and Brandon Frazer possess the potential to be the mostly highly decorated pair since Rena Inoue+John Baldwin.

You may be right. All I know is, for the longest time, nearly everyone who raved about Alexa and Chris used the word "potential." If potential were all it took, their US and international results would look very different.

:lol: I think Miz Bottems is pulling our legs and ragging on Rena Inoue/ John Baldwin, despite their worthy accomplishments. I found I/B to be an engaging team to watch, even though some fans still tend to make fun of JB. Sure, he wasn't consistent on the sbs jumps, but he did manage to land them at some important competitions, and I/B's record first throw 3-axel achievements still stand the test of time. There have been a lot of throw 3-axel attempts by international pairs teams, but I/B were the first to record successful landings (three times in competition including at the 2006 Olympics).

Duhamel/Radford and Savchenko/Szolkowy tried 3-axels in competition too, though Savchenko's landings were usually double-footed. D/R had more consistent success with throw quads. Other teams who recorded successful quad throws in competition include: Zhang/Zhang, Kavaguti/Smirnov, et al. But guess what, another U.S. team was the first to successfully land a throw quad jump in competition. Thus, fyi: Baldwin bros, John & Don, have a connection to both pairs feats. :COP: ;)

Tiffany Vise/Derek Trent (a mirror pair) landed the first successful throw quad salchow at 2007 TEB (after good attempts at other comps): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAZ02SsfgI0

Tiffany subsequently paired with Don Baldwin for four seasons before retiring. Tiffany & Don were married in 2015. As a young skater, Tiffany was paired for two seasons with Ryan Bradley and for two seasons with Laureno Ibarra.

First throw 3-axels successfully landed in competition by John & Rena:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX6kQMpOGzY 2006 U.S. Nationals fp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Oj6ThWhSC4 2006 Olympics sp even more perfectly landed


While we may not see quad twists or quad throws by the new pair of Scimeca-Knierim/Frazier, they will certainly perform some boffo elements, including lifts, throws, and 3-twist. Of that, I think we can be assured. The quad elements in pairs just aren't rewarded enough. Similar in a way to how the U.S. pairs discipline isn't always given enough credit for its significant pairs legacy! It's nice to see more U.S. teams becoming well rounded and more competitive technically and aesthetically.

The pairs skating entry on Wikipedia could seriously use some updating. Apparently throw twists have been called twist lifts. Does anyone know the history on this? Perhaps because in the beginning, it was more of a lift and a brief release for the lady to rotate singly or doubly? Now, this element is much more of a huge throw rather than just a lifting motion. But maybe twist lift is still the official term.
 

skylark

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:lol: I think Miz Bottems is pulling our legs and ragging on Rena Inoue/ John Baldwin, despite their worthy accomplishments.

Oh. Well, I'm the last to know. :oops: I wasn't watching skating during that time, although I did somehow see him kneel and propose to her on the ice.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Ok this is cuteness overload.

Not sure where to post this but since Ash started it I’ll post it here. I’m trying to keep up with all this TikTok and other app stuff 🙄 but this is a fun one

Involves Tim (Which is rare), Mariah, Jason, Amber and World Silver Medalist Bradie Tennell


LOL Actually Tim’s dance moves starts off like you’re one Auntie at a wedding… I need to visit him in person and teach him that hips don’t lie!! But then he gets into some Vogue/Pose Realness.
 

aftershocks

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^^ That's cute! Gotta love them all really, especially Jason, Tim, and Mariah. Of course Ashley starts it off well too.


I've really got to say that Ashley's more natural darker hair color looks 'hot mama' on her. I mean she's a real siren, and who knew! Her eyes didn't stand out as much with the blond hair. It's great she's done away with that pale blondie dark roots look and is coming into who she really is, which matches her personality too. She's lookin' good!
 

skylark

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Ok this is cuteness overload.

Involves Tim (Which is rare), Mariah, Jason, Amber and World Silver Medalist Bradie Tennell

WorldSilverMedalist Bradie??? Is this a long-running joke that I'm not party to, and probably a few others who read this?

Thanks for posting the link!. This is lovely.
 

VALuvsMKwan

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WorldSilverMedalist Bradie??? Is this a long-running joke that I'm not party to, and probably a few others who read this?

Thanks for posting the link!. This is lovely.

1. Yes (well not so long-running - apparently from a thread here in which posters engaged in a "fan-fic" 2020 World Championship discussion).
2. Consider the source.
 

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