Royalty Thread #10 -Archie Phase 2 - Bold and Bald Still

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I guess no one is really surprised that rich and powerful men who are accustomed to having their every whim satisfied have engaged in exploitive and inexcusable relations with young and beautiful women. It also does not seem surprising that there are those who play "middle man" if you will, as these men can hardly approach anyone on their own. The only things Prince Andrew has actually admitted to are those things that are undeniable - his relationship with Epstein, staying at his various residences, and being pictured with him after he was convicted of under age solicitation. Does anyone really think if Prince Andrew does speak with the FBI that he will admit knowing anything else unless there is indisputable evidence connecting him? He even denies the picture of him with his arm around the alleged victim is authentic. I also feel very sad for his daughters, particularly Princess Beatrice. If anything good comes of it, I hope men of power and influence - whether a member of the royal family, a very successful movie director, a beloved comedian, a neighborhood power figure, realize that "bad" behavior is now much more likely to come back and bite them exactly where they deserve it.
 
mag said:
Nice to see Harry and Meghan getting some high level assistance:

ca.hellomagazine.com

The Queen has been visiting Prince Harry and Meghan Markle privately at home

The visits come after the Duke and Duchess of Sussex appeared in a documentary shot during their royal tour of South Africa.
ca.hellomagazine.com ca.hellomagazine.com
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"High-level assistance" :lol: The Queen mostly lives at Windsor Castle, and I don't think it's any secret that she's often visited her grandson, great-grandson, and granddaughter-in-law at Frogmore Cottage, and not only after the recent documentary...

The article in Hello simply smacks of continued spin and p.r. from BP palace courtiers in the aftermath of the Tom Bradby SA documentary, as well as soft-pedaling the fact that the Sussexes are taking an extended vacation in the U.S. Plus, media outlets always want to have something to write about.

M&H's timing to 'get the hell out of Dodge,' or more politely 'to take a break from royal duties,' is outstanding I must say. I have a feeling that Christmas festivities with the British royals is not going to be very festive this year. I'll bet the Cambridges would likely enjoy spending Christmas Day with the Middletons. It's certainly easy for them to perhaps split time with Catherine's family this year, and still appear at the requisite Sandringham gathering and church at St. Mary's on Christmas morning. Maybe this year, or very soon we might see the older two Cambridge kids on the traditional church walk.
 
I just don't understand what was in Andrew's mind doing the television interview.
To explain himself? Explain what? His association with a convicted pedophile
who also engaged in trafficking woman, the allegations made against Andrew for partaking
in this criminal behavior is all i need to know. Disgusting.
 
Stick a fork in him, he's done thank goodness. I've been a supporter of our royal family ever since I can remember but this last few days have made me seriously think again about that. Maybe once the Queen dies then it's time to move on.

My sincerest hope now is that he is struck off the civil list with immediate effect. It's not as if he did anything anyway but withdrawing from public life should mean no more tax payers £££. Mummy will have to bail him out from her substantial private coffers.

I also hope that there are continued investigations not only into the Epstein business but his dubious connections with a whole host of shady billionaires. The inference is that he has essentially exploited his position and provided access to the Queen in return for financial renumeration. How else does someone on £270k a year buy a £13 million ski chalet in Verbier?

As of this evening the number one hashtag on Twitter for him is #nonce. :eek: The public are speaking and we won't be seeing him again any time soon.
 
kittyjake5 said:
I just don't understand what was in Andrew's mind doing the television interview.
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That's because you are not a highly privileged man living in a gilded bubble. Like so many before him, he was arrogant enough to think that all he needed to do was say he didn't do it and everyone would believe him and it would be over.

I read elsewhere that he had a PR person who told him not to do it, and she quit a couple of weeks ago - likely the last straw for her, and wanting to save her own professional reputation as an advisor.

On a related note, Fergie needs to shut up. I get that she owes him in some way, and maybe she thinks she's protecting her children, but it's only contributing to the idea that he's somehow above it all as he plays by an entirely different set of rules than the rest of us.
 
aftershocks said:
"...M&H's timing to 'get the hell out of Dodge,' or more politely 'to take a break from royal duties,' is outstanding I must say. I have a feeling that Christmas festivities with the British royals is not going to be very festive this year. I'll bet the Cambridges would likely enjoy spending Christmas Day with the Middletons. ..."
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IMO, the Cambridges probably wish they could go to the US also -- it would put much more distance between them and Uncle Andrew than would a visit with the Middletons.
 
JJH said:
I feel so sorry for the Queen and Prince Phillip and Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie.
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The daughters, yes. But his parents, including his mother who is pretty much his employer too? Not so sure.

This didn't just come out. His association with Epstein has been known for years, and his name was in the press years ago - I think the Palace even made a statement about it several years ago.

Sure, you can't always tell a grown man what to do, but this goes beyond that, this is not an ordinary family.

And even if we for a moment imagine that Andrew never actually got involved with underage girls and had no idea this was going on, we might think that it's possible he didn't realize that his good friend was having serious legal troubles, or he might have even believed his friend when he said he was innocent. Even the picture of Andrew with his accuser - instead of saying it was doctored (come on!) he should have said he's met many people over the years and had his picture taken with many people who he did not actually know, just like any prominent person might have.

However, Epstein attended one of his daughter's birthday parties just a couple of months after charges were laid - at the very least, the guest list should have been scrutinized. She's not an ordinary citizen, she's a princess whose grandmother is the Queen, and a man charged with prostituting underage girls shouldn't have been anywhere near that party, as a guest of her father no less.

We'll perhaps never know what's been going on behind closed doors, but it's not like the Queen and Prince Philip would have been blindsided by this.
 
JJH said:
I feel so sorry for the Queen and Prince Phillip and Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie.
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I feel sorry for the daughters but not so much for the Queen and Prince Philip. That massive sense of entitlement and lack of empathy from Andrew doesn't exist in a bubble. Obviously, he seems to be a bad seed but one has to think part of it was the way he was raised. It's so revealing that he didn't notice anything "unbecoming" because he assumed that all the girls in Epstein's orbit were "staff." So to him, they really don't matter.
 
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canbelto said:
I feel sorry for the daughters but not so much for the Queen and Prince Philip. That massive sense of entitlement and lack of empathy from Andrew doesn't exist in a bubble. Obviously, he seems to be a bad seed but one has to think part of it was the way he was raised. It's so revealing that he didn't notice anything "unbecoming" because he assumed that all the girls in Epstein's orbit were "staff." So to him, they really don't matter.
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I'm not so sure that it is how he was raised. After all, the Queen and Prince Philip have four children -- and Charles, Anne, and Edward do not seem to have the extreme selfishness that Andrew is showing, or otherwise indicate that mistreating people is OK if they are "staff".
 
Having come into contact with a number of minor royals some years ago through work, I can verify that they simply do not see people. Doors magically open for them, chairs miraculously are drawn back, glasses mysteriously refill. They never acknowledge and they never say thank you.

It's just the way they are; a sort of rarified, almost extinct breed that pretends to be moving with the times while still existing in an atmosphere of carefully cultivated pre-war deference that simply no longer exists in the real world.
 
Well maybe that ought to change? Its 2019 not 1519. For all that the British press bitch about the younger royals I notice they do thank their drivers when they exit from limos.
 
My dad once saw a young (probably young teen) Prince Andrew on a ski trip and he was apparently messing around or behaving inappropriately and my dad told him off. Apparently HRH was pretty stunned :lol:
(My dad much preferred Prince Charles who took over his cabin when he left the navy and he had lunch with.) :D
 
There's a thread in PI that was started awhile ago to discuss the Epstein scandal:

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...nd-legal-aftermath.105866/page-3#post-5690210

Since some of the conversation is going on here too, specifically in regard to Andrew, I have brought over some commentary from that thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nxlggVDXhk Channel 4 News synopsis & discussion with articulate writer & Prince Charles biographer, Catherine Mayer:
“Prince Andrew's interview entirely erases the victims… the overwhelming sense of this interview is that he sees himself as a victim…” [Mayer's response to a question about Andrew being outclassed intellectually and manipulated by Epstein]: “There's no doubt that Andrew was outclassed intellectually… When Andrew talked about letting the side down, the side he meant is the Establishment, the monarchy, he let light in accidentally…”

I would phrase it that Andrew (with Ghislane Maxwell and Epstein hovering as debauched, craven opportunists and manipulators) apparently 'let light in' on his own reckless, culpable behavior, cluelessly, self-indulgently and stupidly, rather than 'accidentally.'

Additional fallout reactions regarding Prince Andrew's interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV6J2ENN2Xw
"I don't think self-awareness is anything Prince Andrew has ever suffered from..."
"A mixture of stupidity and arrogance..."

A British talk radio show breaks down the PrAndrew interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6f8UpoBj64
"He's made himself look seriously stupid and remorseless..."


Why didn't Andrew accept advice to release his most recent statement of remorse and concern for the victims long ago? If he won't own up to his awful transgressions, there's no way any p.r. consultants can help him. It appears as if Andrew has not been taking the most reasonable advice anyway. One of the contracted p.r. staffers who left two weeks ago did so because Andrew refused to listen to the suggestion to give a wide-ranging print interview early next year to coincide with his birthday, in which he would respond with carefully prepared answers to queries about Epstein, along with trying to place some focus on his positive work projects. Now, that more judicious strategy is completely and totally thrown out the window, like the 'baby with the bath water.'

Whoever suggested for Andrew to sit down with the laser sharp and very skilled professional journalist, Emily Maitlis, with inadequate preparation and egg on his face, must have been out of their minds. Unless it was Andrew who overly careless and full of himself, thought it was a good idea for some insane reason. Maitlis has done a great public service, in addition to acquitting herself admirably and bringing attention to her expertise, however sad the circumstances. Unfortunately, Prince Andrew acted as if he believes his own ridiculous lies. But he failed to fool anyone but himself. So he 'unusually' went to Pizza Express in Woking nine years ago, but sadly, the pizza outing did nothing to change his un-woke status.

I have a sneaking suspicion Andrew may have thought that if M&H could speak out about what they've been dealing with and gain sympathy, so could he! :duh: What a bonehead calculation, if that was the impetus. The circumstances are completely different, added to the fact that journalist and documentary filmmaker, Tom Bradby, is a long time, trusted friend of Prince Harry's. What everyone who has a bug up their ass about the Sussexes fails to accept is that Meghan & Harry have done absolutely nothing wrong, except for perhaps in the view of vicious, envious trolls, having the temerity to exist and to be in love.

It's laughable how royal reporters were lining up to defend Prince Andrew weeks ago. Now, they are lining up to wash their hands of him and to expound over how this is Andrew's mess which should not touch the rest of the royals. IMO, the entire Andrew mess along with the way Meghan has been freely and excessively attacked by the British media simply for brilliantly and beautifully existing, has placed a pall over the entire royal family. The takeaway: It's impossible to throw one member of the royal family to the wolves, without karma in the guise of a hungry wolf pack, hunkering around to take others down. What goes around comes around. And sadly, the British royals should already have learned this a long time ago.

ETA:
Of course Andrew has cluelessly participated in crass behavior and ill-judgment that has led to his downfall.
 
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mag said:
The historian, interviewed at the nine minute mark, is really not doing the Royal family any favours:

youtu.be

Prince Andrew steps back as Epstein scandal becomes 'major disruption' - BBC Newsnight

The Duke of York says he is stepping back from royal duties because the Jeffrey Epstein scandal has become a "major disruption" to the Royal Family.Subscribe...
youtu.be youtu.be
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No he's not as he kept saying it was a family issue not a monarchy issue. Totally disagree. However the blunt talk by the ex Royal Protection Officer at the end of that clip made more sense and was good plain speaking. He was pretty clear he didn't believe a word Andrew said in the original interview and that he has probably been pushed into the statement made last night. I agree. The historian seems to think this statment will close it all down - such blinkered thinking. We haven't heard the last of this by any stretch of the imagination.
 
canbelto said:
It's so revealing that he didn't notice anything "unbecoming" because he assumed that all the girls in Epstein's orbit were "staff." So to him, they really don't matter.
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:confused: Most likely Epstein's staff wore uniforms. Whereas the young girls who attended the party probably came dressed for the occasion. :(:mad:

And if the staff did wear uniforms, most likely Andrew would have noticed it - insofar as any wealthy entitled person pays attention to 'the help'.

Add to that, I would assume the female staff to be older than the girls who attended the party. Or did Epstein also hire girls, just for his amusement?
 
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I think it might be a good idea to separate the discussion of Andrew and his links to Epstein from the rest of the royal thread. It's a serious issue, and a lot of the stuff here is less so - not a great mix, IMO.

(I realize some of the discussion re Meghan and Harry also touches on serious stuff, but this still feels different to me)
 
canbelto said:
Well maybe that ought to change? Its 2019 not 1519. For all that the British press bitch about the younger royals I notice they do thank their drivers when they exit from limos.
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If it is to survive the whole thing needs a re-think. We are approaching a point where conceivably within the next decade we may have a coronation. The last one was 66 years ago and since that time British society has changed beyond all recognition. We are a mostly secular country with dwindling congregations and the majority of people do not go to church unless for special occasions such as marriages, funerals or baptisms. How will the 21st century public react to a centuries old ceremony whereby the incumbent monarch is anointed and feted by all the aristocrats of the land? In all coronations past, the 'Establishment' was still very much in control and the class system unquestioned. Getting all soppy over a Royal wedding ceremony is one thing. Seeing someone adorned in priceless jewellery and anointed by a God most people here don't believe in would be a totally different kettle of fish IMO.
 
It's weird because I'm kind of interested in the British royals, but at the same time, if I were an actual British citizen, I'm pretty certain I would be a republican and in favor of abolishing the monarchy. :saint:

This Daily Beast article (which is rather OTT) claims that Prince Andrew will lose some of his income over the Epstein scandal:

Andrew was quickly pulled from a scheduled visit to flood victims in northern England as plans for his demise were sealed. He was summoned to Buckingham Palace from his home in Windsor on Wednesday afternoon, where he was told it was over.

Andrew was told he would no longer to have any frontline duties representing the family. He was told he was to stand down immediately from his 200 charitable patronages. He was told that he would immediately lose his £250,000 per annum grant.
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If all that's true, it kinda annoys me, in terms of timing. As we have been discussing, Andrew's association with Epstein went on for years and years, through several arrests and convictions as only the tips of a growing iceberg of conduct unbecoming to humanity, let alone the Royal Family.

And yet, it's only now that Andrew is being forced to change his ways in a public manner. Like the worst thing Andrew's done in all this is give a bad interview.

Final straw maybe, but I would think that camel's back was broken long ago.
 
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