The Dance Hall 7: Tripping the Light Fantastic 2019-2020

[twinklestar]

If you can of course overcome your dislike of slam , you're in for a treat because from the few photos of FD practice at IdF, Guillaume just ransacked Rippon's see-through collection. And to add to your message, I just love gender bending programs, bring them on.

It's Guillaume Cizeron with Build a home, who started the see-through costumes trend. Now we only see that, in Montreal and elsewhere.

 

[twinklestar]

Their FD last year was a duet by a man and a woman calling each other Lover and lamenting that they can’t be “together” as soon as they want to.

Not sure you can get anymore hereto than that???

And it was sexy as hell.

Not sure what Kostamorov is talking about except he is an idiot.

I don't agree at all. It wasn't carnal. The Mozart was sensuous. The ambiance of last year's song was like "Après un rêve" of Fauré. This type of "dream".

 

[skategal]

I don't agree at all. It wasn't carnal. The Mozart was sensuous. The ambiance of last year's song was like "Après un rêve" of Fauré. This type of "dream".

It doesn’t have to be in everyone’s face to be sexy.

The warmth in the voices of the song portraying the longing, waiting and hoping to be together again is sexy in an understated way.

In any case, it wasn’t talking about chaste love as they were referring to each other in the song as lover, implying intimacy.

 

[twinklestar]

It doesn’t have to be in everyone’s face to be sexy.

The warmth in the voices of the song portraying the longing, waiting and hoping to be together again is sexy in an understated way.

In any case, it wasn’t talking about chaste love as they were referring to each other in the song as lover, implying intimacy.

Lyrics are not important at all when it comes to pop song, and especially dancing to a music, what is important is the mood of the music. So last year's song was essentially murmuring and whispering (like this year) but not really the moaning type like "Je t'aime moi non plus". Anyway, they've been skating to the same music (almost) since "Build a home" and looking like asexual boring ascetic monks. That's probably what Kostomarov calls gay. Just wondering when they will be skating to religious music.

 

[PRlady]

Hubbell and Donahue get criticized for being too sexy and P/C for not enough. It’s all a matter of taste, but Kostomorov’s homophobic remarks go well beyond taste to nastiness.

 

[muffinplus]

"Their skating is great, I can't say anything negative about that. But I don't like them as a couple. It's gay skating which I am not a fan of. Cizeron is the male partner and should act like a man. But it's not clear if he is the male or the female partner. They skate great yes. But for example Tessa and Scott they skated like a real couple. A man and a woman, real ice dance. (With Papadakis and Cizeron) it's not clear"

 

[Peepsquick]

"Their skating is great, I can't say anything negative about that. But I don't like them as a couple. It's gay skating which I am not a fan of. Cizeron is the male partner and should act like a man. But it's not clear if he is the male or the female partner. They skate great yes. But for example Tessa and Scott they skated like a real couple. A man and a woman, real ice dance. (With Papadakis and Cizeron) it's not clear"

Yeah, well ... this hanging on with claws and teeth to traditional gender roles does disservice to both genders and it is not that this man-woman model has proved to be so great over the centuries. One part of the equation was dominant most of the time anyway and this is what some want to celebrate through dance or (real !!!!) ice dance?
Thanks for the translation @muffinplus!

 

[twinklestar]

Hubbell and Donahue get criticized for being too sexy and P/C for not enough. It’s all a matter of taste, but Kostomorov’s homophobic remarks go well beyond taste to nastiness.

It's not that Hubbell and Donohue are naturally sexy, it's just that they get to do sexy programs. They're trying to copy Virtue and Moir. I think Hubbell and DOnohue are starting to be grotesque by doing too much. Madison Chock is naturally sexier than Madison Hubbell. Hubbell trying to be Marilyn Monroe is ridiculous.
As for P/C, they've been doing asexual FDs since "Build a home". I liked them at the beginning, but now it's all starting to be quite boring, you know, no excitement, nothing new, it's predictable. Anyway, they still look good and beautiful, but oh well, it's boring like a Buddhist mantra or a vegan no-sugar no-gluten cake. We want sugar, butter, eggs and deliciousness! And **** the mantras, bring the drama.

 

[Gris]

There is so much wrong in what Kostomarov has said, I don't even know where to start. If this was intended for politicking for Russian ice dance then he'd better shut up from now on.

 

[Bigbird]

So Katsalapov skates like a man?

 

[Colonel Green]

Kostomarov’s ideal form of men’s skating.

 

[twinklestar]

Kostomarov probably hates Fokine's Spectre de la Rose.
But, to be fair, ballet is not ice dance.
In ice dance, there were the compulsory dances before. And, yes, it's all about man and woman. He comes from that time. Now they have disappeared.
Guillaume is much more flexible than any other male ice dancer, and also he is very graceful. I don't think this should be mistaken with feminity. And also, they don't choose very sharp, "male" music, but soft one. It's more like watching yoga on ice. Kostomarov should explain himself.

 

[I❤️Marina&Sergai]

This really does say more about his lack of Character & morals than anything else. He was exceptionally lucky to get an exceptionally talented partner otherwise he would have never made the podium.

 

[happycamper2554]

Just here to say that katsalapov didnt say anything so I dont why we are dragging on him. Yes the comments are probably to try and push him and Victoria but it's not his fault that Kostomarov sucks.

 

[Dobre]

Regarding the first voiceover in Hubbell & Donohue's FD:

I may have missed a second response as my following of this thread was a bit hit & miss while attending Skate Canada, but for anyone else still wondering what the man says during the first voiceover, my mother found it in a trailer for the film. She says the man says, "That me?"

Apparently the heroine is singing a song which he overhears. He asks if it is about him, which it is. (Perhaps this is when they meet? I really am going to have to watch the recent version of this film).

 

[Dobre]

My response to the recent quote about Papadakis & Cizeron is the same as I had regarding various quotes last year & the year before, etc. Here is the post I typed last season in another thread:

"The whining about H&D's build this season is just the same as the whining of the past about the Shibs being siblings and Chock & Bates being too different height-wise. It's an attempt to discredit teams based on who they are, not their actual skating. That way there is nothing the athletes can do to rebut the argument. It's b.s. None of these things are real weaknesses. They can be challenges, and they can be strengths. Fortunately all of these teams have learned how to use them as the latter, and the same is true for most top athletes. Who you are is what makes you a champion. You aren't a champion in spite of who you are. You are one because of who you are."

 

[suki]

Should just lock him in a room and make him watch this iconic free dance on a continuous loop until he either admits that fabulous has it's place in Ice Dance, or until his brain explodes from the cognitive dissonance - either way, problem is solved.

I think I've watched Manta and Johnson's free dance more than any other FD last season. It's still fabulous.

 

[Colonel Green]

Apropos of nothing in particular (well, I guess you could say it's related to Guignard/Fabbri's Grand Prix start tomorrow), do people have any thoughts on the future prospects for Italian ice dance?

The current Italian #2 team didn't even come close to making the free dance in Saitama (and they didn't even use their third spot). The recent JGP season, especially, highlighted how little depth they seem to have right now -- even at JGP Egna, where you'd expect them to put their best foot forward, the top-ranked Italian team was ninth. I think a number of the Italian junior teams have some decent qualities, but none seem like stars in the making at the moment.

It's strange to me because unlike a lot of other non-superpower countries, Italy has an elite-level training center domestically with Barbara Fusar-Poli's operation.

 

[Lutzlvr]

Apropos of nothing in particular (well, I guess you could say it's related to Guignard/Fabbri's Grand Prix start tomorrow), do people have any thoughts on the future prospects for Italian ice dance?

The current Italian #2 team didn't even come close to making the free dance in Saitama (and they didn't even use their third spot). The recent JGP season, especially, highlighted how little depth they seem to have right now -- even at JGP Egna, where you'd expect them to put their best foot forward, the top-ranked Italian team was ninth. I think a number of the Italian junior teams have some decent qualities, but none seem like stars in the making at the moment.

It's strange to me because unlike a lot of other non-superpower countries, Italy has an elite-level training center domestically with Barbara Fusar-Poli's operation.

I think Righi and Dubrovin had the potential of doing well in Egna and maybe even medaling had they skated clean. Unfortunately they made significant mistakes (fall on the pattern and bad twizzles) in the RD and that took them out of contention. Perhaps the expectation of doing well at a home JGP increased the pressure. Anyway, I think this team has potential (and an interesting look) if they can pull it together and have more consistent, clean skates.

 

[Daena]

Just here to say that katsalapov didnt say anything so I dont why we are dragging on him. Yes the comments are probably to try and push him and Victoria but it's not his fault that Kostomarov sucks.

Well, that's because Kostomarov said he likes SK better in his next phrase - after trashing Cizeron he said "that's why I like SK's skating more".

 

[blancanieves]

Regarding the first voiceover in Hubbell & Donohue's FD:

I may have missed a second response as my following of this thread was a bit hit & miss while attending Skate Canada, but for anyone else still wondering what the man says during the first voiceover, my mother found it in a trailer for the film. She says the man says, "That me?"

Apparently the heroine is singing a song which he overhears. He asks if it is about him, which it is. (Perhaps this is when they meet? I really am going to have to watch the recent version of this film).

A film trailer, that's what their FD feels like. It's a series of quick cuts, dialogue included. Dance is not film. I wish they would worry less about delineating a plot and more about interpreting music.

 

[Bigbird]

Well, that's because Kostomarov said he likes SK better in his next phrase - after trashing Cizeron he said "that's why I like SK's skating more".

No one is trashing Katsalapov I hope. However IMHO Cizeron is in another weight class. He is the complete ice dancer. Katsalapov has good edge quality and flow however he needs to work on flexibility, strength, posture, extension, lifts, interpretation and his twizzles. Kostamarov is short sighted in his comments. He should go watch Sergei Polunin. No dancer is more complete and graceful than him, would he say because of his gentleness he is homosexual and should be disparaged in the media? He is acting like like a tactless baffoon and we make it worse by discussing his vile remarks. His arguments must be ignored for the garbage they represent it will do his pets no good but rather force the judges to see them more clearly.

Edit: The only team that can pull off skating to a film soundtrack is PC. But what Hubbell and Donahue need to also understand is they are working with judges who judge with their eyes first and foremost and then their heads. Whatever difficulty they do it must look as easy and effortless as the relatively open and uncluttered some could say even empty but albeit fast and expansive choreo done by other teams. They cannot forget line, posture and the male female dynamic that the judges seem to appreciate, for better or for worse, there are constraints.

 

[Doggygirl]

Regarding the first voiceover in Hubbell & Donohue's FD:

.....

Apparently the heroine is singing a song which he overhears. He asks if it is about him, which it is. (Perhaps this is when they meet? I really am going to have to watch the recent version of this film).

I've been thinking the problem for me not appreciating this dance is that I haven't seen the movie. I think it's problematic if this dance assumes people have all seen the movie in order to appreciate / figure out what H/D are trying to say with it....

 

[marbri]

Well if it helps I saw the movie and that doesn't really help. You shouldn't have to know the story to see a story on ice, for those that are attempting to tell a story. So the fact that people feel they should now watch the movie to understand it speaks volumes about the execution.

 

[Miloune]

Regarding the first voiceover in Hubbell & Donohue's FD:

I may have missed a second response as my following of this thread was a bit hit & miss while attending Skate Canada, but for anyone else still wondering what the man says during the first voiceover, my mother found it in a trailer for the film. She says the man says, "That me?"

Apparently the heroine is singing a song which he overhears. He asks if it is about him, which it is. (Perhaps this is when they meet? I really am going to have to watch the recent version of this film).

That's not how they meet, but at one point she sings a song to him, which is the begining of what is going to become "Shallow".

 

[Sylvia]

Copying over from GSD...

An article I did on Zagorski/Guerreiro, ahead of their appearance this weekend at IdF:

Tiffani Zagorski & Jonathan Guerreiro overcome adversity & find success - Figure Skaters Online

Five years ago, ice dancers Tiffani Zagorski and Jonathan Guerreiro teamed up to skate for Russia. Zagorski and Guerreiro have faced their share of challenges since then.

figureskatersonline.com

 

[nimi]

Kostamarov is short sighted in his comments. He should go watch Sergei Polunin. No dancer is more complete and graceful than him, would he say because of his gentleness he is homosexual and should be disparaged in the media

Um... Unfortunately, Polunin himself has expressed similar homophobic sentiments, so I don't think watching Polunin would make him see things differently.

Sergei Polunin dropped by Paris Opera Ballet after homophobic rant

The Paris Opera Ballet has withdrawn its invitation for Sergei Polunin to perform in Swan Lake because he posted “homophobic”, "sexist" and “fattist” comments on social media.

www.telegraph.co.uk

How far can an artist go? – DW – 02/27/2019

Despite his homophobic statements, dancer Sergei Polunin has been allowed to continue performing at the Bavarian State Opera. Critics say the remarks are hurtful and damage ballet as a whole.

www.dw.com

But let's not get bogged down by stale machismo, here's a vid of PapCiz living their best life and doing their fun Fame run-through!

Gabriella PAPADAKIS/Guiliam CIZERON SP practice 1/11/2019 Internationaux de France

Gabriella Papadakis and Guiliam Cizeron’s sp practice at the Internationaux de France 2019 Day:01/11/2019Link for IDF playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playl...

youtu.be

 

[Bigbird]

Um... Unfortunately, Polunin himself has expressed similar homophobic sentiments, so I don't think watching Polunin would make him see things differently.

Sergei Polunin dropped by Paris Opera Ballet after homophobic rant

The Paris Opera Ballet has withdrawn its invitation for Sergei Polunin to perform in Swan Lake because he posted “homophobic”, "sexist" and “fattist” comments on social media.

www.telegraph.co.uk

How far can an artist go? – DW – 02/27/2019

Despite his homophobic statements, dancer Sergei Polunin has been allowed to continue performing at the Bavarian State Opera. Critics say the remarks are hurtful and damage ballet as a whole.

www.dw.com

But let's not get bogged down by stale machismo, here's a vid of PapCiz living their best life and doing their fun Fame run-through!

Gabriella PAPADAKIS/Guiliam CIZERON SP practice 1/11/2019 Internationaux de France

Gabriella Papadakis and Guiliam Cizeron’s sp practice at the Internationaux de France 2019 Day:01/11/2019Link for IDF playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playl...

youtu.be

Truth, Sergei Polunin, sometimes suffers from severe foot in mouth disease, but my argument lies in what he puts on the dance floor or what Guillame puts on the ice. I don't see Guillame as feminine in any dance, in fact at times he reminds me of the British great Dean. I mean can we just go back to Zhulin in his hey day in tights. If he wore some of those get ups today, I mean just please. This conversation should have been over so many posts ago.

 

[RoseRed]

Edit: The only team that can pull off skating to a film soundtrack is PC. But what Hubbell and Donahue need to also understand is they are working with judges who judge with their eyes first and foremost and then their heads. Whatever difficulty they do it must look as easy and effortless as the relatively open and uncluttered some could say even empty but albeit fast and expansive choreo done by other teams. They cannot forget line, posture and the male female dynamic that the judges seem to appreciate, for better or for worse, there are constraints.

Umm, what? Tons of teams use film soundtracks (or scores) and plenty of those programs work, imo. Hubbell/Donohue's might not, but saying that P/C are the only ones who can do it is pretty over the top.

 

[Bigbird]

Umm, what? Tons of teams use film soundtracks (or scores) and plenty of those programs work, imo. Hubbell/Donohue's might not, but saying that P/C are the only ones who can do it is pretty over the top.

Well of course, what would you expect from a P/C fan in uber mode