Ashley Wagner reveals she was assaulted by John Coughlin

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Ashley also brought up a point about why she didn't go to the USFS at the time. She came from a military family. Kids and spouses don't make waves. You learn to keep a low profile, especially if you live in base housing. It can be a real problem for the military parent when you don't. While all that goes to why she came forward now, it has nothing to do with the person who was at fault here. It wasn't her.

Kids need to know consent is the word of the day. Males and females need to know they can say no and no means no.
 
Ashley also brought up a point about why she didn't go to the USFS at the time. She came from a military family. Kids and spouses don't make waves. You learn to keep a low profile, especially if you live in base housing. It can be a real problem for the military parent when you don't.

Which is also something that military parents can use to their advantage when they are the ones abusing children.

I hope Ashley has support, it IS courageous for her to speak up so publicly about this, and bottom-dwellers who call her the coward, or question why it took so long to speak out deserve a special place in hell. Including certain posters at this forum.
 
And I sincerely hope that Sappenfield has been removed from her coaching post at the World Arena and will be subject to an investigation as well. The thought of those red hats makes my stomach churn - and I bet the team whose logo was on those hats isn't best pleased, either.
It should be. For sure. No better way to demonstrate a cultural issue and the organization creating a hostile environment than not punishing/removing one of the most powerful coaches in the organization, even after all she said about the victims. Who would want to come forward to USFS when the leaders don't care that one of their leading figures not only doesn't believe victims but openly attacks their character? Makes you think USFS leadership might support Sappenfield's point of view. Makes you think that if you accuse someone too well liked by USFS you'll be in trouble or publicly shamed - not your abuser.

Seriously, props to Ashley.
 
Just wow. Ashley is probably in the strongest position to speak up. I expect other victims to follow her suit. I am profoundly horrified. I had a similar experience at 17 (high school physics teacher)... I will never forget the fear of retaliation if I said anything. I was afraid for my life.

I initially believed John and his family. The story circulated in the skating community was "young love" being punished. This ain't love. This is sexual assault of a child.
 
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Sexual promiscuity is also an ancient tool to discredit victims as well. Thank goodness the Rules of Evidence evolved to make a victim's past sexual history unrelated to that one particular alleged incident inadmissible in court.
In the USA? In Canada, you can make a motion/application to the court to introduce such evidence. The threshold is high, but this very thing has just happened in Ottawa recently. Ugh.
 
Just wow. Ashley is probably in the strongest position to speak up. I expect other victims to follow her suit. I am profoundly horrified. I had a similar experience at 17 (high school physics teacher)... I will never forget the fear of retaliation if I said anything. I was afraid for my life.

I initially believed John and his family. The story circulated in the skating community was "young love" being punished. This ain't love. This is sexual assault of a child.


I think the poster is referring to the family’s response that the allegations were started by a jealous rival/less famous partner. Ashley, obviously, is neither and is a huge star, and those theories no longer can apply
 
Speaking of the military, wasn't that also an issue with why sexual assault was underreported by female armed forces members? If they raise a stink, then they were undermining squad trust and relationships and all that junk? I mean sexual assault is underreported in general, but I have to imagine it would be a lot worse in that type of situation and mentality being perpetrated.
 
I think the poster is referring to the family’s response that the allegations were started by a jealous rival/less famous partner. Ashley, obviously, is neither and is a huge star, and those theories no longer can apply
They are talking about the skaters who came out with messages of love for John. Being vindictive is s***ty. Especially citing Ashley's greater fame as the reason. Overall it is a horrendous situation for all involved - including John's family & friends. They could only go on the information he gave them. It's a normal human reaction to believe people you are close to. I hope this doesn't escalate into bullying of those who initially supported John. Two wrongs don't make it right.
 
I think we also need to take great care in not ‘bashing’ these skaters.

At the time they were mourning someone that they knew as a friend. They clearly didn’t see the same side of John that some women saw.

This must be an awful thing for them too. Many of them are quite young. Many of them would have little experience of losing a friend to suicide. To now see more and more evidence that they didn’t know John as well as they thought must also be confronting and very confusing to them.

There are no winners in this. There are women that were clearly hurt by John. There were young people mourning the death of their friend. At the time these extra facts and stories weren’t available to them. We need to take care now that these skaters aren’t bullied for their initial very emotional reactions.

I agree with this but, at the same time, these 'natural' reactions of support make it very hard for victims to come forward - especially if they're accusing someone who's important or well-liked in their community. Ashley has a much higher profile than John (at least now) so she is more readily supported and believed - which is messed up. But that isn't the case for most victims.

I'm not sure what the solution is in these situations, perhaps more awareness. There are no villains here (to me, this includes John - I don't believe that people are purely good or bad) and maybe something can be learned from this so that it's dealt with in a better way in the future. I very much respect anyone who acknowledges that they could have responded in a better way.
 
I agree with this but, at the same time, these 'natural' reactions of support make it very hard for victims to come forward - especially if they're accusing someone who's important or well-liked in their community. Ashley has a much higher profile than John (at least now) so she is more readily supported and believed - which is messed up. But that isn't the case for most victims.

I'm not sure what the solution is in these situations, perhaps more awareness. There are no villains here (to me, this includes John - I don't believe that people are purely good or bad) and maybe something can be learned from this so that it's dealt with in a better way in the future. I very much respect anyone who acknowledges that they could have responded in a better way.

Yes, as someone else said, can we all just sit and imagine how anyone would have reacted if Ashley told this in 2008 right after it happened? she would have been an ant in an amusement park.
 
I'm more than fine with people expressing sentiments of disappointment, and who have good-faith hopes that skaters who had done tributes come forward and apologize in order to show that they learned something and reflect upon their behavior. What I don't like is how some fans have made it about themselves, and appointed themselves as some sort of arbiter of morality. It's clear they are way more interested in ranting about and shaming other skaters and "canceling" them because it feeds their ego or something inside of them by doing this. Some of them get off on all the likes and comments of support they receive on Twitter and IG and act as if they are the ruler of their little figure skating fandom (and I do mean little). Some more nefarious people are using this as an excuse to hate on skaters (whole countries/federations) they probably already disliked.

Now, that said, not every skaters' actions were equal and people like Delilah or skaters who flat out said the victims were "lying" are probably deserving of harsher social media commentary. They put themselves out there as advocates and took a stand that more actively attacked the victims, so they can take the criticisms coming at them.
 
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They are talking about the skaters who came out with messages of love for John. Being vindictive is s***ty. Especially citing Ashley's greater fame as the reason. Overall it is a horrendous situation for all involved - including John's family & friends. They could only go on the information he gave them. It's a normal human reaction to believe people you are close to. I hope this doesn't escalate into bullying of those who initially supported John. Two wrongs don't make it right.
Agree. And also, maybe some have in fact apologized to Ashley. And if they have, why do some think we all have a right to that knowledge? None of this is helpful.
 
And I sincerely hope that Sappenfield has been removed from her coaching post at the World Arena and will be subject to an investigation as well. The thought of those red hats makes my stomach churn - and I bet the team whose logo was on those hats isn't best pleased, either.

It should be. For sure. No better way to demonstrate a cultural issue and the organization creating a hostile environment than not punishing/removing one of the most powerful coaches in the organization, even after all she said about the victims. Who would want to come forward to USFS when the leaders don't care that one of their leading figures not only doesn't believe victims but openly attacks their character? Makes you think USFS leadership might support Sappenfield's point of view. Makes you think that if you accuse someone too well liked by USFS you'll be in trouble or publicly shamed - not your abuser.

Seriously, props to Ashley.

One thing I have been thinking about with Coughlin and his victims is that while the situation might be similar to the Nassar case, or that football coach guy, it is not identical. While Coughlin was in a position of power (especially over his former partner), he was not a coach or someone with the same amount of power as Nassar. Wagner's story reads like a the type of sexual assault that can take place in colleges - it doesn't excuse it or make it less horrifying for her or his other victims, but it feels different to me? I'm not at all certain here, I'm not sure I can describe it better, and maybe it is more similar than I realize.

That said - you HAVE to wonder what SafeSport means with a 'culture of abuse' related to this. You HAVE to wonder about the environment that Coughlin was in - himself a fairly young adult - that let him get away with this. You HAVE to wonder what other things happened, what he experienced or saw, what was the norm. Or I should say what IS the norm.

I keep thinking about Sappenfield, and what sort of behavior that went on at her rink, that still goes on today. I wonder what her attitude is towards her skaters. I wonder what sort of people are on her team, and what they are doing. I wonder what her relationship is with her skaters.

I know this is speculation, but either Coughlin was 'a single bad person' and Sappenfield knew. Or maybe this behavior is not that rare in the environment. I don't know what is worse, and in either case, as the posters above said - I am beyond appalled by her behavior.
 
I thought it at the time and I still think Sappenfield knew very well what happened in the past and was way more afraid she was going to be caught up in a lawsuit. She was trying to set up a defensive parameter.

Please STOP. How do you know this??? Are you inside Dalilah Sappenfield's head? She lost someone she cared about very deeply. Assessing blame to her for not wanting to believe the worst of someone she cared about does not solve anything. I am not going to judge or slam her for having sly, ulterior motives without solid, incontrovertible proof. I don't have her original statement on Instagram in front of me, but the little I recall of it strikes me as someone experiencing deep pain, anguish and grief. I make a point of not participating in too much back-and-forth on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook, especially on highly emotional subjects and controversies. It's mentally exhausting enough engaging in discussions about supposedly lighthearted topics involving figure skating events. AFAIK, Dalilah was distraught over the death by suicide of a dear friend whom she thought very highly of. ITA with @insideedgeua's post #73: "... they were mourning someone they knew as a friend..."

There are deeper issues surrounding this that strike home for all of us. We do not live in a vacuum. I bet everyone has had something happen to them directly involving assault or harassment at some point in their lives, or else know someone personally who has experienced such incidences. The quantity and devastation of such grievous situations of sexual abuse and trauma happening in families is endless, not even counting what happens in the wider world. When Bridget Namiotka came forward, my immediate thought was, "We are all culpable." Our larger societal culture, as well as figure skating culture has culpabiity.

The finger-pointing (& vindictive high-horse blaming as if this is a contest) on all sides, about what is a very sad and tragic situation for everyone needs to stop. Ashley came forward for a reason, 'to shed light on dark places,' to get people "to talk more about these experiences" -- and to try and prevent something similar happening to another young skater. As Ashley said, "We need to do better for our next generation." That's not just in figure skating, it also applies to the larger culture (including globally, and in our local communities, and in our families). This getting on high horses and lashing out by some people in this thread (on all sides) only perpetuates the pain, anger, sadness and confusion.

The truth is what has needed to come out, no matter how hard, painful, and devastating. I hope more truths continue to be revealed. I feel so sorry for Bridget, Ashley and for everyone who has suffered from any egregious act perpetrated by John Coughlin. But what I can't countenance and I will never get on the bandwagon and the lynch mob with is demonizing a person whose behavior was terribly wrong and sadly should have been noticed and addressed by adults much much sooner, which might have saved his life (helped him to rehabilitate as a teenager) and prevented at least some of the abuse perpetrated on others that he has been accused of. Nor will I ever compare or equate his behavior with the egregious misdeeds of other guilty sexual assaulters in our culture. These so-called 'monsters' who are human do not come from outer space. It's better for all of us to examine our own lives, and to reflect upon the 'monsters' that reside within our own individual psyches. Constantly projecting outward will not resolve the ills of our society.

And let me be clear, that I do not think Ashley or any of the other victims are responsible in any way, shape, or form. Nor is there any expectation or magic formula that exists for them to immediately speak out. It just doesn't work that way. Everyone who is victimized should be sympathized with and listened to. We all react in differing ways to traumatic incidents. Just as we all react in varying ways to sudden news of someone we personally experienced as kind and thoughtful being investigated for alleged, but unspecified sexual misdeeds. Later learning or learning suddenly at the same time that this person has committed suicide is very disorienting and saddening. There is not one way to feel, except to try and reserve harsh judgment of anyone until incontrovertible truths are revealed. Those who are in close contact with the victims have more information than anyone else. But the victims have a right to maintain their anonymity and their privacy. The decision to come forward is courageous and needed. But those who decide not to come forward are no less brave for facing each day and trying to overcome the physical and emotional trauma they experienced.

The only people who need to apologize surrounding this tragic situation are those who seem to delight in vindictively lashing out on social media blindly assessing blame, and those who are acting as if this is all some kind of finger-pointing contest or grudge match in which judges' tallies are being kept on a scorecard. :(

Read Sally Field's memoir, In Pieces; read Maya Angelou's autobiography, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings; read Educated, by Tara Westover; read Hunger: a memoir of (my) body, by Roxane Gay. Read and weep, read and reflect on your own personal human experiences.
 
One thing I have been thinking about with Coughlin and his victims is that while the situation might be similar to the Nassar case, or that football coach guy, it is not identical. While Coughlin was in a position of power (especially over his former partner), he was not a coach or someone with the same amount of power as Nassar. Wagner's story reads like a the type of sexual assault that can take place in colleges - it doesn't excuse it or make it less horrifying for her or his other victims, but it feels different to me? I'm not at all certain here, I'm not sure I can describe it better, and maybe it is more similar than I realize.

That said - you HAVE to wonder what SafeSport means with a 'culture of abuse' related to this. You HAVE to wonder about the environment that Coughlin was in - himself a fairly young adult - that let him get away with this. You HAVE to wonder what other things happened, what he experienced or saw, what was the norm. Or I should say what IS the norm.

I keep thinking about Sappenfield, and what sort of behavior that went on at her rink, that still goes on today. I wonder what her attitude is towards her skaters. I wonder what sort of people are on her team, and what they are doing. I wonder what her relationship is with her skaters.

I know this is speculation, but either Coughlin was 'a single bad person' and Sappenfield knew. Or maybe this behavior is not that rare in the environment. I don't know what is worse, and in either case, as the posters above said - I am beyond appalled by her behavior.

While the documented accounts are not of those in a coaching type relationship with John but more like peers, I do believe he was coaching skaters in some capacity at some point. He was also doing camps/clinics etc. There are some things that we do not know but we know that the lawyer is representing minors.
 
I’m not really sure how he is much different from Nassar. Ashley’s account of what happened is basically describing that he was fingering her. Like..WTH does everyone think “he knew his way around a female body” mean? He wasn’t friggin rubbing her boob like a 7th grader. Jesus.
 
I just read the article. I'm in shock that this had to happen to her. I'm just relieved that she was able to finally come out with it. She is one strong lady that I've always admired. It doesn't matter when she was finally able to come out with what happened. What matters is that she had the guts to finally be able to talk about it, and that's what it takes. It took a lot of guts, and I'm totally proud of her. :love:
 
One thing I have been thinking about with Coughlin and his victims is that while the situation might be similar to the Nassar case, or that football coach guy, it is not identical. While Coughlin was in a position of power (especially over his former partner), he was not a coach or someone with the same amount of power as Nassar. Wagner's story reads like a the type of sexual assault that can take place in colleges - it doesn't excuse it or make it less horrifying for her or his other victims, but it feels different to me? I'm not at all certain here, I'm not sure I can describe it better, and maybe it is more similar than I realize.

That said - you HAVE to wonder what SafeSport means with a 'culture of abuse' related to this. You HAVE to wonder about the environment that Coughlin was in - himself a fairly young adult - that let him get away with this. You HAVE to wonder what other things happened, what he experienced or saw, what was the norm. Or I should say what IS the norm.

I keep thinking about Sappenfield, and what sort of behavior that went on at her rink, that still goes on today. I wonder what her attitude is towards her skaters. I wonder what sort of people are on her team, and what they are doing. I wonder what her relationship is with her skaters.

I know this is speculation, but either Coughlin was 'a single bad person' and Sappenfield knew. Or maybe this behavior is not that rare in the environment. I don't know what is worse, and in either case, as the posters above said - I am beyond appalled by her behavior.

I don't know what the norm is, but I suspect it's pretty messed up based on emails I have received from people who have read my skating fiction and want to know if it's based on so-and-so in real life. (It isn't.) No one ever brought up Coughlin's name, though. As for Sappenfield, I only know what I have read here and on social media. She sounds a lot more over-the-top than the typical enabler. That red hat campaign took it to a level that would be considered too outrageous for fiction.
 
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