New Ladies Quads and Orser-exit, news during May-day holidays.

[Madhatter]

Regarding Gabby: I find the idea that someone is entitled to being treated as #1 just because they come from a certain country preposterous.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Regarding Gabby: I find the idea that someone is entitled to being treated as #1 just because they come from a certain country preposterous.

Not "entitled", but any common sense suggests that if there is only one top senior lady skater remains in a particular country, she should be given a priority by a Canadian top coach at her rink, who is teaching at the top Canadian skating club (and not a free-lancer like some coaches are). Instead that top coach trains the competition and skaters in other countries.

That interview with Daleman's mother is heart breaking...
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/...er-daughter-s-mental-health-battles-1.4977673

Daleman was starting to crash. Training in Toronto resumed. One day, she broke down on the ice, sobbing and exhausted. She called her sports psychologist who told her to see her family doctor immediately; the doctor said she needed to see a psychiatrist.

Why did she start to crash, but resumed training? Why was she exhausted and broke down? North American coaches and training methods are supposedly so gentle and carrying for the pupils and yet this happens to Daleman at the TCC? it must be the club and the atmosphere....

Why did Daleman tried to hide her injury? She mentioned several times that "she was hurt, but did not tell anyone".. There is no evil Eteri, no jumping beans pushing her.... and yet in a perfect North American club she needs to hide the fact that she is injured, and! because of some small B-level event?

That was the case with Daleman. The crisis came in fall of 2018, when she fell and hit her head during a training session before Salt Lake City's Figure Skating Classic. Not wanting to cause a fuss and believing that no real injury had been caused, Daleman kept the slip to herself.

Something certainly unhealthy is going on at the Cricket Club... Especially since Daleman looks much more happy, hopeful and confident now that she is at a new place..
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByGXmeZBV0V/

 

[Colonel Green]

Not "entitled", but any common sense suggests that if there is only one top senior lady skater remains in a particular country, she should be given a priority by a Canadian top coach at her rink, who is teaching at the top Canadian skating club (and not a free-lancer like some coaches are). Instead that top coach trains the competition and skaters in other countries.

That's not how the system works, as already explained. Orser was never even her main coach, that was always Barkell.

Why did she start to crash, but resumed training? Why was she exhausted and broke down?

For the reason explained in the article, she was suffering from an undiagnosed injury.

 

[Tinami Amori]

That's not how the system works, as already explained. Orser was never even her main coach, that was always Barkell.

But Orser was the main coach at the rink, he set the environment, and is responsible for all skaters he is involved with and sits in kiss-n-cry with.. Top Japanese and Russian coaches do not take into their clubs direct competition to their top skaters in a given season. If Japanese and Russian coaches and clubs don't do it, it means the Canadian system works wrong (according to the common logic here, "if Russians don't do it like north Americans, then it must be evil and wrong").

For the reason explained in the article, she was suffering from an undiagnosed injury.

Well, lots of "undiagnosed conditions" that Eteri's skaters suffer from, or injuries before and after they train with her that they endured, are blamed on Eteri.... Brian Orser is has been involved with Daleman for many years, so the question is how can such serious condition, with so many indications during practice, has been unnoticed, besides the depression and anxiety?

Not wanting to cause a fuss and believing that no real injury had been caused, Daleman kept the slip to herself.

This phrase by no other than Daleman's mother clearly indicates that there was a problem even if Daleman though it is not a serious (real) injury, but Daleman chose to oversee it an compete..... What evil pressure is she under? Surely not something individual most athletes go through, a drive to compete in general..... because that only happens at "Krystalny rink" where jumping beans pushing one another in their Hunger Games...

.... something is rotten in the state of TCC....

 

[AxelAnnie]

If you can't beat them, join them... i guess Russians too need a few outlets which trash and spread rumors about the more successful North American coaches and skaters.


The original wording in the title is worst "Escapes from Orser"..

I too, believe that "all the hype around Medvedeva" at TCC might have had some affect on some Canadian skaters at the club.. Daleman is Canadian, and in a Canadian Club she should rightfully be the #1 and a star, and not a foreigner, no matter house famous he/she is.

I am sure it had an affect...........and a good affect. Here is one of the tippy top skaters in the world coming to train and learn from them and with them. Not like different nationalities are skating all over the place in different locations. Um Virtue & Moir anyone?

 

[Colonel Green]

But Orser was the main coach at the rink, he set the environment, and is responsible for all skaters he is involved with and sits in kiss-n-cry with.. Top Japanese and Russian coaches do not take into their clubs direct competition to their top skaters in a given season. If Japanese and Russian coaches and clubs don't do it, it means the Canadian system works wrong (according to the common logic here, "if Russians don't do it like north Americans, then it must be evil and wrong").

Nobody makes that argument. And how clubs manage their membership is very much dependent on the person, not something subject to a rule. Many skaters enjoy training with rivals, and the TCC has always been open that it seeks to bring in as many top skaters as they can reasonably handle; Gabrielle knew that when she went there, and from all indications she likes having Evgenia there. She's leaving because her coach is leaving.

Brian Orser is has been involved with Daleman for many years, so the question is how can such serious condition, with so many indications during practice, has been unnoticed, besides the depression and anxiety?

As explained in the article, she herself went to the doctor after feeling bad in practice, and the next time she went on the ice, Barkell told her to get off after she related her symptoms.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I am sure it had an affect...........and a good affect. Here is one of the tippy top skaters in the world coming to train and learn from them and with them.

It had a bad affect on at least 2 Canadian skaters. Daleman i am quite sure was not made feel that she is a #1 priority in her own country and in her own club, at the time of her life when she needs the most support in a form of EVERY little detail.

Gogolev's parents clearly stated that they do not appreciate the lack of time Orser has for their son's training, due to his constant travels to shows and training camps in foreign countries. Now Gogolev left Canada all together.

If Orser puts more priority on his petty "ego projects", such as "doing his own show in Korea, right next to Yuna Kim" or training the Chinese team, or mindlessly initiating a challenge with one of the best foreign coach in Ladies Singles and dropping local projects to chase after it across oceans, then maybe he needs to become a free-lance travelling coach, and not represent Canada and a Canadian Skating club?

And it is not just Canadians who are suffering, because Orser's ego is chasing after new and glamorous projects..... Hanyu is a mess of injuries, gets on the podium on crotches, withdraws from GPF, loses Gold at the Worlds.... I guess Hanyu is now "a conquered territory", Orser milked all the success out of him, and now after new excitement in search of fame...

Not like different nationalities are skating all over the place in different locations. Um Virtue & Moir anyone?

There is a difference! There are free-lance coaches and choreographers; then there are foreign coaches who moved abroad and have international groups of skaters...... and then there are local, born-and-raised in their own country, coaches, who were skaters themselves for their own country, and now represent their country's clubs as "top coaches". The later ones have an obligation to their own country first.

Well.... certainly "not eating" issues should be addressed by a North American coach that takes place with a skater in his own club...
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/...man-figure-skating-olympic-recovery-1.4483961

"There would be points when people would call me too muscular, too fat, so there would be times when I wouldn't eat, or when I did eat I wrote down the calories and then I would burn that off, and then burn double it. But it's life.

Nobody makes that argument. And how clubs manage their membership is very much dependent on the person, not something subject to a rule.

Nobody? you have not read the "Russian topics" and every possible critique and fake assumptions about "how Tutberidze and the Russians are doing it wrong and ruining children" by North American posters from North American perspective...

 

[VenusH.]

The thing about Gabby is... people in this part of the world recognize she has her demons. With Russian ladies, people in their part of world cheer when they talk about closing their mouths and not eating and will go to unbelievable lengths defending not drinking water, trying to normalize it.

And the way Russian bring up Gracie and Gabby remind me of of Cold war joke, where American asks a Russia how long does a common Russian need to save to buy a car. And Russian starts yelling "So what! You lynch black people!!!"

 

[Tinami Amori]

The thing about Gabby is... people in this part of the world recognize she has her demons. With Russian ladies, people in their part of world cheer when they talk about closing their mouths and not eating and will go to unbelievable lengths defending not drinking water, trying to normalize it.

No that's not how it is. In most North Americans' opinion when it happens to a skater in North America, it is a personal or rather individual, one of a rare kind of issue, that it is a personal choice, and how he/she handled it from the pressures of society. When it comes to Russia "it's that evil system and skaters are forced".

Athletes are athletes, they all have egos, goals, sports is not a "life necessity", they are all in it by choice, nobody forces anyone to do anything, what they all do is by choice (unless they are young and have pushy stage-parents, who have the power to chose a club and a coach).

And the way Russian bring up Gracie and Gabby remind me of of Cold war joke, where American asks a Russia how long does a common Russian need to save to buy a car. And Russian starts yelling "So what! You lynch black people!!!"

We in Russia have jokes about USA and Canada also. And by the way, right now Russia has the most luxury cars than North Americans, but the race issues are raised to an absolute RIDICULOUS level by North Americans themselves...

Back to TCC.... Certainly there is something going on when top skaters are leaving, some are injured, some "don't eat", and next best to Orser coach, Barkell, went to another club... Not to mention, that this year's Orser's pupils did not win too much gold..

 

[Colonel Green]

It had a bad affect on at least 2 Canadian skaters. Daleman i am quite sure was not made feel that she is a #1 priority in her own country and in her own club, at the time of her life when she needs the most support in a form of EVERY little detail.

Gogolev's parents clearly stated that they do not appreciate the lack of time Orser has for their son's training, due to his constant travels to shows and training camps in foreign countries. Now Gogolev left Canada all together.

Gabrielle was very happy to have Evgenia there, by all accounts.

Stephen, as Orser himself admitted, was a case where he just didn't have enough time, and he was disappointed. So his parents found a different coach; nobody cares what country he trains in.

If Orser puts more priority on his petty "ego projects", such as "doing his own show in Korea, right next to Yuna Kim" or training the Chinese team, or mindlessly initiating a challenge with one of the best foreign coach in Ladies Singles and dropping local projects to chase after it across oceans, then maybe he needs to become a free-lance travelling coach, and not represent Canada and a Canadian Skating club?

And it is not just Canadians who are suffering, because Orser's ego is chasing after new and glamorous projects..... Hanyu is a mess of injuries, gets on the podium on crotches, withdraws from GPF, loses Gold at the Worlds.... I guess Hanyu is now "a conquered territory", Orser milked all the success out of him, and now after new excitement in search of fame...

There is a difference! There are free-lance coaches and choreographers; then there are foreign coaches who moved abroad and have international groups of skaters...... and then there are local, born-and-raised in their own country, coaches, who were skaters themselves for their own country, and now represent their country's clubs as "top coaches". The later ones have an obligation to their own country first.

That isn't how it works, as has already been explained. Orser doesn't "represent Canada"; he's a coach at a Canadian club, and most of his students (and especially his most prominent students) have always been non-Canadian.

I'm not sure what you think Hanyu's injury has to do with Orser's other projects. He seriously injured himself and still won silver at Worlds.

Actually, if Barkell's students all leave with him, I'm not sure how many Canadians would even still be at the TCC -- Joseph Phan (who Brian coaches) and the junior dance team D'Alessandro/Waddell (obviously Brian doesn't have anything to do with them) and the only ones that spring to mind.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Gabrielle was very happy to have Evgenia there, by all accounts.

so i should take your word for it? there is plenty of interviews where Eteri's girls and boys say how happy they are at Sambo, how great Eteri is, never forces them.... and yet even interviews of actual people are not believed.

Maybe Gabi was being polite? do we know how she feels but does not say it? She did leave... and now looks happy. Maybe she was not comfortable speaking the truth back then?

You need to prove to me that Gabrielle was happy, and not just from her interview. Interviews of skaters themselves mean nothing... apparently.

Stephen, as Orser himself admitted, was a case where he just didn't have enough time, and he was disappointed. So his parents found a different coach; nobody cares what country he trains in.

The point is, Gogolev was not satisfied with conditions at TCC/Orser, so he left the TCC. If it is not a big deal, then it is not i guess a big deal that Eteri's skater is not satisfied with conditions at Sambo and finds another coach.

But if it is a big deal when it happens at Sambo, as many make it out to be, then it is just as big of a deal with it happens at TCC, especially when the main coach does not have time for the top country's junior. Please note: Gogolev is the TOP Canadian junior, not # 6-7-8 or even 10-12, who is trying to catch up to the leaders. Orser did not find enough time for TOP CANADIAN JUNIOR. That's bad.

That isn't how it works, as has already been explained. Orser doesn't "represent Canada"; he's a coach at a Canadian club, and most of his students (and especially his most prominent students) have always been non-Canadian.

Then he should be a free-lance coach, and not occupy space and be the head the Top Canadian Skating club.
The medals are still awarded with Countries and Hymns in place.

I'm not sure what you think Hanyu's injury has to do with Orser's other projects. He seriously injured himself and still won silver at Worlds.

Well, as per many people's opinions, when skater is so seriously injured under coach's supervision, it is coach's fault. When coach travels so much, maybe the skater is neglected.

Actually, if Barkell's students all leave with him, I'm not sure how many Canadians would even still be at the TCC -- Joseph Phan (who Brian coaches) and the junior dance team D'Alessandro/Waddell (obviously Brian doesn't have anything to do with them) and the only ones that spring to mind.

That's a serious problem, when the top Canadian Skating Club with the top Canadian singles coach has no Canadian skaters left.... and it should be looked into by SkateCanada.

 

[liv]

TCC is a private club. When they took over the skating portion, Brian and Tracy wanted a place where skaters from everywhere could train. It is not a national training centre. It is not funded by the Canadian government or SkateCanada. Brian can take, or not take, any skaters he wishes and if there aren't any top Canadians, that's just the way it is.

 

[mackiecat]

@Tinami Amori you don’t understand how it works in Canada. The people who pay Brian are his skaters/their parents. He probably gets a small stipend from TCSC ( a private members only club) for organizing the program and for when he teaches full group sessions ( such as a stroking session) but his employer as such is the skater themselves. He has specialists who also teach his skaters ( spins, chores for example) each of these would bill the skater directly

 

[Japanfan]

It had a bad affect on at least 2 Canadian skaters. Daleman i am quite sure was not made feel that she is a #1 priority in her own country and in her own club, at the time of her life when she needs the most support in a form of EVERY little detail.

But Daleman is not her coach's only pupil. Also, support is supposed to be provided by a team, not just a coach.

And SFAIK, Skate Canada does support its skaters. At least Slipchuck would have people believe it does.

Gogolev's parents clearly stated that they do not appreciate the lack of time Orser has for their son's training, due to his constant travels to shows and training camps in foreign countries. Now Gogolev left Canada all together.

Any skater is free to leave a coach they are dissatisfied with.

There is a difference! There are free-lance coaches and choreographers; then there are foreign coaches who moved abroad and have international groups of skaters...... and then there are local, born-and-raised in their own country, coaches, who were skaters themselves for their own country, and now represent their country's clubs as "top coaches". The later ones have an obligation to their own country first.

They have no such obligation. A coach is equally obligated to all the skaters who pay him or her for coaching.

TCC is a private club. When they took over the skating portion, Brian and Tracy wanted a place where skaters from everywhere could train. It is not a national training centre. It is not funded by the Canadian government or SkateCanada. Brian can take, or not take, any skaters he wishes and if there aren't any top Canadians, that's just the way it is.

This.

 

[screech]

Brian also discusses with his students in direct competition before accepting new ones. He and Javi have flat out said that if Javi hadn't been okay with it, Brian would not have accepted Hanyu as a student. So even though Gabby wasn't one of Brian's main students, I'm sure it would have been discussed. It's not like Brian *needed* or was actively searching for more students...

Any competitive environment has its issues. Elite athletes all want to be the main focus of their coach, so Stephen's disappointment is completely understandable. Elite athletes will also push themselves to or beyond their breaking point to be the best they can be, and to be better than their rivals. That's both a great and bad thing about training alongside your rivals.

Canada is an extremely multicultural country, and TTC reflects that. As a coach, Brian does not represent Canada, does not get his regular salary from Canada, and has absolutely no obligation to focus Canadians. His obligation is to all of his students, irregardless of where they come from. And that's one of the things that has made the TTC such a desirable training location for the last decade.

 

[bardtoob]

This seems too much like an Eteri Vs Orser thing . . . which is overly dramatic and all because a pupil left Eteri for Orser.

Probably the oddest part is that I tend to focus on the skater and am a fan of the skater, although I do respect the coach.

However, it seems like some are focused on the coach and are fans of the coach, and the skaters come and go.



This is probably a cultural thing, and probably why this drama does not translate well to me and some others from the west.

For what it is worth, I think American coaches take as much flack as Eteri. For example, I think fat a$$ Evy Scotvold was overly fixated on weight and gave Nancy an eating disorder while also openly gossiping about how fat Tonya's a$$ had gotten as a form of politiking.

 

[Tinami Amori]

TCC is a private club. When they took over the skating portion, Brian and Tracy wanted a place where skaters from everywhere could train. It is not a national training centre. It is not funded by the Canadian government or SkateCanada. Brian can take, or not take, any skaters he wishes and if there aren't any top Canadians, that's just the way it is.

@Tinami Amori you don’t understand how it works in Canada. The people who pay Brian are his skaters/their parents. He probably gets a small stipend from TCSC ( a private members only club) for organizing the program and for when he teaches full group sessions ( such as a stroking session) but his employer as such is the skater themselves. He has specialists who also teach his skaters ( spins, chores for example) each of these would bill the skater directly

You're both right, and I know that. But TCC is still a part of or member of SkateCanada programme. TCC can have any foreign skaters they want, conduct any training camps they want, but as long as Canadian skaters a priority. It's only fair that skaters in their own country are given a priority.

What seems to be apparent this past season, is Orser was being a "peacock", did and said a lot of things for his own ego boost, and self-importance, spread him self too thin, and now what he has is:
- His/TCC top male skater lost Worlds and was injured.
- His/TCC/Canadian top junior skater left him and the club.
- His/TCC/Canadian top senior lady been struggling with issues that were not addressed properly, skated injured, performed poorly at int'l events, and now left the club.
- His other top coach left the club.

I hope next season he concentrates on his own business, instead of "challenging" foreign coaches, and "doing shows in the neighborhood" of his former pupils... Yuna Kim can handle ice shows in Korea just fine, all on her own. He does not need to "stick his nose" into her territory. He pocked at Russia, at Korea..... and now he does not have any top Canadians skating at his club. Hope he learned.

 

[Alilou]

You're both right, and I know that. But TCC is still a part of or member of SkateCanada programme. TCC can have any foreign skaters they want, conduct any training camps they want, but as long as Canadian skaters a priority.

What seems to be apparent this past season, is Orser was being a "peacock", did and said a lot of things for his own ego boost, and self-importance, spread him self too thin, and now what he has is:
- His/TCC top male skater lost Worlds and was injured.
- His/TCC/Canadian top junior skater left him and the club.
- His/TCC/Canadian top senior lady been struggling with issues that were not addressed properly, skated injured, performed poorly at int'l events, and now left the club.
- His other top coach left the club.

I hope next season he concentrates on his own business, instead of "challenging" foreign coaches, and "doing shows in the neighborhood" of his former pupils... Yuna Kim can handle ice shows in Korea just fine, all on her own. He does not need to "stick his nose" into her territory. He pocked at Russia, at Korea..... and now he does not have any top Canadians skating at his club. Hope he learned.

See Tinami, the bolded part is what you either just can't get, or are unwilling to get! The TCC is not a part of, or member of Skate Canada. It has no obligation AT ALL to Skate Canada or to make Canadian skaters a priority. That's not how it works here. The TCC is its own autonomous organization and can do whatever it wants.

You seem to have some vendetta against Orser. Well good for you. Have at it. Maybe you'll even convince someone that there's Trouble in River City. Good luck with that

 

[Colonel Green]

- His/TCC top male skater lost Worlds and was injured.

I'd love to know what you think Orser could have done to stop Hanyu from landing awkwardly on that quad loop at Rostelecom.

If anything, that he managed (for the second season in a row) to guide Hanyu back into fighting shape in time for the end of the season is a pretty good display of coaching (and, of course, Hanyu's iron will -- for better or worse, since Hanyu's iron will to finish Rostelecom also made things worse in the first place, but YOLO, I guess).

- His/TCC/Canadian top senior lady been struggling with issues that were not addressed properly, skated injured, performed poorly at int'l events, and now left the club.
- His other top coach left the club.

Barkell got an offer to be the top man at his own club. Why wouldn't he take that? Which, in turn, is why he's (seemingly) taking his students with him.

 

[Tinami Amori]

See Tinami, the bolded part is what you either just can't get, or are unwilling to get! The TCC is not a part of, or member of Skate Canada.

One of the top skating clubs, with top coaches and skaters in a given country, can not be totally independent of that country's Skating Federation. I do know that TCC conducts CanSkate programmes, and that is a connection right there. But i am sure SkateCanada has legal connection with any top skating rink in Canada. It would not be logical otherwise.

It has no obligation AT ALL to Skata Canada or to make Canadian skaters a priority.

Perhaps not by law, but by morals and ethics.

That's not how it works here. The TCC is its own autonomous organization and can do whatever it wants.

Then it is wrong "how it works here". Top skating Federations, like Russia and Japan, don't do it like that.

See Tinami, the bolded part is what you either just can't get, or are unwilling to get! The TCC is not a part of, or member of Skate Canada. It has no obligation AT ALL to Skata Canada or to make Canadian skaters a priority. That's not how it works here. The TCC is its own autonomous organization and can do whatever it wants.

You seem to have some vendetta against Orser.

I rather think that it is Orser who chose to "prove something" this past season, made a mess of some things, and now it is quite apparent that he should have concentrated on his own work first.

Tursy's mother maybe a crazy tiger-mom, but tiger-moms have good self-preservation instincts. She knew that the past season will be about "Orser's ego trip" and a dog-and-pony show at the rink, with media, and interviews and a lot of unwanted attention, away from training her daughter. Now her daughter is a World Silver medalist. she made a right choice. And now other top skaters followed... or rather dashed out of TCC.

Now Yuna Kim is conducting another Ice Show, and it looks like it is going to be just great. She'll be make more money, and Orser had one show under her nose, but now his club is out of one top coach, and at least 2 top skaters.

 

[puglover]

Please - I would like to see quotes where Brian said "all these things that were ego based".

 

[Tinami Amori]

I'd love to know what you think Orser could have done to stop Hanyu from landing awkwardly on that quad loop at Rostelecom.

I guess the same thing other coaches expected to have done, when they are blamed for their skaters' injuries...

If anything, that he managed (for the second season in a row) to guide Hanyu back into fighting shape in time for the end of the season is a pretty good display of coaching (and, of course...

So, i guess guiding an injured skater back into fighting shape so he can continue to compete that season, is a good thing? Given that he had to later withdraw from GPF, skipped the Japanese Nationals and 4CC, and lost Gold at the Worlds? Oh, i am so glad you said this... because i've been made to believe that it is called "abuse and neglect" and gives justifiable reason for skater to leave such coach with a scandal...

Barkell got an offer to be the top man at his own club. Why wouldn't he take that? Which, in turn, is why he's (seemingly) taking his students with him.

I see.... so Orser, while out of the rink half the time, and sitting with Barkell's students only in Kiss-n-Cry, was also acting as the Top Man at the rink? Very glad to hear Barkell left and has his own rink.

 

[bardtoob]

What if Orser is just taking these opportunities because it pays well?

I can't fault him for that.

 

[Alilou]

One of the top skating clubs, with top coaches and skaters in a given country, can not be totally independent of that country's Skating Federation. I do know that TCC conducts CanSkate programmes, and that is a connection right there. But i am sure SkateCanada has legal connection with any top skating rink in Canada. It would not be logical otherwise.


Perhaps not by law, but by morals and ethics.


Then it is wrong "how it works here". Top skating Federations, like Russia and Japan, don't do it like that.

Bolded part: proof please. You can't make arguments based on what you feel should be logical. If there is a legal connection between the TCC and Skate Canada I'd like to see it. I doubt there is.

Neither would anyone here expect the coaches at TCC to give priority to Canadian skaters on moral or ethical grounds no matter how much you wish it were so so you could use it as an argument to continue to smear Orser. Again - that's not how it works here.

You may think the way it works here is wrong all you want, but again you can't use it as a valid argument to smear Orser. Because that's not how it works here.

 

[overedge]

Just a small correction, but the Granite Club did not "produce" Kurt Browning. Kurt spent most of his career at the Royal Glenora Club in Edmonton, and was at the Granite Club only in the last part of his career. Regardless, it's true that the Granite Club has a very strong reputation.

 

[Japanfan]

But TCC is still a part of or member of SkateCanada programme. TCC can have any foreign skaters they want, conduct any training camps they want, but as long as Canadian skaters a priority. It's only fair that skaters in their own country are given a priority.

If TCC is a member of the Skate Canada program, I don't think it obligates the rink to prioritize Canadian skaters.

Skate Canada prioritizes Canadian skaters, as it should. But rinks are separate entities from the federation.

Then it is wrong "how it works here". Top skating Federations, like Russia and Japan, don't do it like that.

But Japan and Russia do not an international FS culture that welcomes skaters from all over the world, like Canada does. Japan does not have enough ice for it, it barely has enough for its own skaters. And Russia presumably prefers a national focus. That's why it was so remarkable when Kavaguti succeeded in joining Moskvina's camp.

 

[overedge]

The Cricket Club skating club is a member club of Skate Canada. That means that TCC skaters who are Canadian can represent the club in Skate Canada sanctioned competitions. It also allows the club to offer Skate Canada programs like Learn to Skate.

Being a Skate Canada member club doesn't mean that TCC gets funding from Skate Canada or that it has some obligation to only train Canadian skaters or give priority to Canadian skaters. Lots of Skate Canada clubs have skaters training at their facility who are members of another Skate Canada affiliated club or who are members of a club in another country or another federation. Skate Canada doesn't prohibit that - it's up to the club to decide who to accept as a member or as someone training there, and it's entirely up to coaches to choose their students.

 

[_Lola_]

The thing about Gabby is... people in this part of the world recognize she has her demons. With Russian ladies, people in their part of world cheer when they talk about closing their mouths and not eating and will go to unbelievable lengths defending not drinking water, trying to normalize it.

And the way Russian bring up Gracie and Gabby remind me of of Cold war joke, where American asks a Russia how long does a common Russian need to save to buy a car. And Russian starts yelling "So what! You lynch black people!!!"

If this joke is how you treat the attempts to explain to you the differences in perception of the same things across the borders, then it's actually you who are reproducing the 'Cold War' discourse. It's pity if you don't understand that.

Indeed, as it was already mentioned, Eteri's skaters have given many interviews. The most recent is from Alexei Erokhov, in which he directly states that no one "breaks the kids" in Eteri's group:
https://www.sport-express.ru/figure...o-ona-lomaet-detey-dumayu-eto-zavist-1547032/

If you trust Gabby, why don't you trust him? Sasha Trusova and Anya Shcherbakova sound as happy kids in their interviews. Anya is very intelligent, educated, well-mannered and sweat. Sasha is very determined, brave and snarky. Recent interview of Gleikh, where he talks about Alina's struggles, shows understanding and compassion.

Of cause, there are bumps on the road of each athlete, especially the younger ones, who are going through puberty. But why demonize Eteri?

I am also really puzzled why not to look critically at what North American system and coaches do to the skaters? How come that Daleman was sick for so long and it was so evident from her Instagram for anyone and the coaches did not notice? Was it really a good decision to bring one of the closest rivals to the rink where the mentally fragile Daleman trains? How come that Gold struggled for so long with her coach and officials not noticing...? Why are indifference and personal responsibility normalized to the extent, that younger women loose their health and struggle publicly, and no one around them seems to be responsible and caring? Is it a sign of the atmosphere of indifference in the North American figure skating? You pay, we are a private club, we don't care about your issues. Whether you get an injury or developed an anorexia nervosa - it's your own responsibility. Don't blame us, it just works that way here, nothing to criticize.

As for anorexia, Russia indeed had not have a wide public discussion about it until quite recently. I remember US' Jamie Silverstein heartbreaking exit from the elite figure skating back in 2001. In Russia, the first widely discussed case of anorexia in figure skating was Yulia Antipova in 2014 and then - Yulia Lipnitskaya. The awareness has been low, but it is growing. In the same vein, as you are saying that the Americans at least acknowledge their problems, Russians are doing the same. It's just they faced that particular problem much later.

 

[Japanfan]

I am also really puzzled why not to look critically at what North American system and coaches do to the skaters? How come that Daleman was sick for so long and it was so evident from her Instagram for anyone and the coaches did not notice? Was it really a good decision to bring one of the closest rivals to the rink where the mentally fragile Daleman trains? How come that Gold struggled for so long with her coach and officials not noticing...? Why are indifference and personal responsibility normalized to the extent, that younger women loose their health and struggle publicly, and no one around them seems to be responsible and caring?

There is no evidence that Daleman's coaches did not notice that she was struggling.

Also, people with eating disorders and mental health problems tend to hide those issues as much as they can.

Is it a sign of the atmosphere of indifference in the North American figure skating? You pay, we are a private club, we don't care about your issues. Whether you get an injury or developed an anorexia nervosa - it's your own responsibility. Don't blame us, it just works that way here, nothing to criticize.

I don't know. With regard to eating disorders, SFAIK there is culture of hiding them in North America (much like anywhere else).

Also, there may be some coaches who prefer their skaters to be at a weight that is lower than ideal for optimal health if the skaters jump better at that weight - or better fit the aesthetic ideal.

Although North American coaches generally aren't known to encourage their skaters to go on a powder diet or limit their water intake, perhaps these coaches would just turn a blind eye in the skaters made a decision to do those things on their own.

It's a good thing that a conversation about EDs and mental health issues is being had within the FS community. Hopefully there is a concurrent emphasis on nutrition and well-being.

But I'm not optomistic that the situation will change for the better in the near future. There is just too much pressure on female skaters to pursue an ideal of femininity - an ideal that exists for girls/women in general, and is multiplied by the aesthetics of FS.

 

[_Lola_]

There is no evidence that Daleman's coaches did not notice that she was struggling.

Also, people with eating disorders and mental health problems tend to hide those issues as much as they can.
...

Although North American coaches generally aren't known to encourage their skaters to go on a powder diet or limit their water intake, perhaps these coaches would just turn a blind eye in the skaters made a decision to do those things on their own.

[/QUOTE]

Depending on whom you call the North American coaches... There was an interview of Victoria Sinitsina, who was trained by Marina Zoueva, in which she discussed how she got almost neurotic about her weight, thanks to Marina's encouragements to loose her weight. Gracie Gold revealed in one of her interviews that it was her coach who once told her to loose the weight and then she started googling on how to loose calories... So I'm not sure what you mean when you're saying that North American coaches are not known for encouraging skaters to take control over their weight... You just take it for granted that they don't do that instead of asking questions...

Another thing is that eating disorders are mental illnesses. Figure skating requires to control one's weight. It's not possible not to control it and keep jumping. No one would believe that Osmond didn't control her weight, and who knows what were her ways of doing that. Shall we ask her and her coach about that? At the same time, no one knows when and if a diet turns into a mental illness. For years there were rumours in Russia about eating habits of Vera Bazarova, but her psychic was probably strong enough not to crack. Osmond's also hasn't. But Daleman, instead, have been struggling publicly for long time and so did Gold. What exactly do you mean when say that they hide it?
How come that the posters here are blaming Alina for talking publicly about her diet when the problem of Daleman has been as obvious as a big pink elephant in the middle of the room?