The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[aftershocks]

... Call him 'Haggie' if you will...

I will not.

Cool.

Another poster referred to Romain that way earlier in the thread. I didn't know if it's supposed to be an affectionate nickname, or a derogatory slam. So yep, his 'Haggieness' and Gadbois crew are boss, regardless of how they are referenced, dissed, worshipped.

 

[aftershocks]

Crossposting from the thread in Great Skate Debate:

Tkachenko looks happy. I just love how international ice dance is right now and the paths we see these athletes take. I mean a decade ago, what were the odds of seeing a trio like Zoueva, Tkachenko, and Ucar all coaching together in Florida? Cathy Reed now coaching in Japan. Margaglio in Finland. Popova & Krylova now working together. Galit Chait working with so many Israeli athletes. A new Israeli dance team in Ichilov & Davidovich. Barbara gathering forces in Europe. Shae-Lynn becoming a much sought-after choreographer in the singles world. Tchernyshev choreographing some of the top names in Russia. It's just a lot of fun seeing the ebb & flow and the way all these paths intersect.

Indeed, all the synergy and collaboration. For ice dance it's been an ever developing thing that perhaps began as a successful enterprise in Detroit with Zoueva and Shpilband. Then the concept reached new heights in a revolutionary way with Romain Haguenauer joining forces in Montreal with Dubreuil/Lauzon, and bringing along his nascent champions, Gaby & Guillaume. For that to have happened, it first took Dubreuil/Lauzon training in France with Romain under Muriel Boucher-Zazoui, and getting to know each other as competitors and training mates.

Fast-forward to D/L having the vision to create a school, and Romain having a vision to explore the synergy of a Euro-NA collaboration. Visions joined and magic happened. The collaboration trend has grown, and is taking on new resonance among all the disciplines. It is particularly exciting in ice dance and pairs, especially with all of the wonderful choreographers who are blooming from an ice dance background.

 

[sharsk8s]

Indeed, all the synergy and collaboration. For ice dance it's been an ever developing thing that perhaps began as a successful enterprise in Detroit with Zoueva and Shpilband. Then the concept reached new heights in a revolutionary way with Romain Haguenauer joining forces in Montreal with Dubreuil/Lauzon, and bringing along his nascent champions, Gaby & Guillaume. For that to have happened, it first took Dubreuil/Lauzon training in France with Romain under Muriel Boucher-Zazoui, and getting to know each other as competitors and training mates.

Fast-forward to D/L having the vision to create a school, and Romain having a vision to explore the synergy of a Euro-NA collaboration. Visions joined and magic happened. The collaboration trend has grown, and is taking on new resonance among all the disciplines. It is particularly exciting in ice dance and pairs, especially with all of the wonderful choreographers who are blooming from an ice dance background.

All accurate except Romain never competed against D/L. He coached/choreographed alongside Muriel Zazoui, even though he was very young I think he was more of a coach for them.

 

[Dobre]

So would anyone care to take a stab at where the top six (or if you are really brave, the top ten) are likely to wind up on the GP next season?

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Craps, I'm still trying to regain my bearings and equilibrium after the long slog waiting for Worlds, and then it comes with fireworks, and then the season is suddenly over. I'm worn out. Too discombobulated to venture a guess. Let's maybe hit pause to celebrate some moments and some memories a bit first. I'm sure others will take you up on your challenge though...

All accurate except Romain never competed against D/L. He coached/choreographed alongside Muriel Zazoui, even though he was very young I think he was more of a coach for them.

Oh, thanks. I just knew there was an association in a training capacity, since Romain and M-F have previously spoken about it in passing. I didn't know though that Romain was no longer competing when D/L moved to France to train with Boucher-Zazoui.

 

[sharsk8s]

^^ Craps, I'm still trying to regain my bearings and equilibrium after the long slog waiting for Worlds, and then it comes with fireworks, and then the season is suddenly over. I'm worn out. Too discombobulated to venture a guess. Let's maybe hit pause to celebrate some moments and some memories a bit first. I'm sure others will take you up on your challenge though...



Oh, thanks. I just knew there was an association in a training capacity, since Romain and M-F have previously spoken about it in passing. I didn't know though that Romain was no longer competing when D/L moved to France to train with Boucher-Zazoui.

He started coaching when he was 19 I think

 

[sharsk8s]

P/C: IdF, NHK
S/K: Rostelecom, CoC
H/D: Skate America, Skate Canada
S/B: IdF, Skate America (or maybe Rostelecom? idk if rusfed wants their top 2 head-to-head so early in the season)
W/P: Skate Canada, NHK
C/B: Rostelecom, CoC
G/P: Skate Canada, CoC

These are really random and are probably very inaccurate. The only one I am pretty sure about is P/C wanting IdF and NHK because that is what they have asked for every season

 

[Debbie S]

These are really random and are probably very inaccurate. The only one I am pretty sure about is P/C wanting IdF and NHK because that is what they have asked for every season

I agree with your predictions for the first 3.

For 4-6, it's a bit more muddy, depending on whether S/B go to CoR. But even if they don't, I would be surprised if they were at SA, unless they have a burning desire to visit Las Vegas. Most likely, they aren't going to want to face H/D at H/D's home event, and I imagine USFS won't want them there either. If S/B don't go to CoR, I think they probably would choose NHK (more honorable to lose to the WC), and I agree they'll be at IdF, for the same reason. I suspect W/P will either be at CoC as their second event, with C/B going to CoR and probably SA (W/P aren't going to want to do back to back events).

 

[Dobre]

ETA: See below.

 

[Dobre]

S/B: IdF, Skate America (or maybe Rostelecom? idk if rusfed wants their top 2 head-to-head so early in the season)

Interesting. I was thinking Rostelecom and NHK or maybe IDF, but I agree that S&B are the toughest ones to predict.

It's been a long, long time since Weaver & Poje came to Skate America (12-13). Stepanova & Bukin haven't been since 14-15. But chances are mighty good one of them will be coming this season.

II suspect W/P will either be at CoC as their second event, with C/B going to CoR and probably SA (W/P aren't going to want to do back to back events).

W&P very well could have them, though, if Chock & Bates are sent out to compete away from SA. (Which seems quite likely when considering both the number of U.S. dance teams on the list that need spots and the pattern of sending out team #2 over the past several years).

 

[Debbie S]

W&P very well could have them, though, if Chock & Bates are sent out to compete away from SA. (Which seems quite likely when considering both the number of U.S. dance teams on the list that need spots and the pattern of sending out team #2 over the past several years).

I guess that all depends on the political maneuverings of the assignment process. On paper, W/P have priority in the pecking order over C/B (which they shouldn't, b/c C/B should have beaten them, but that's another discussion) so if they choose CoC (or any other event) over SA, they won't go to SA. Since they are not a USA team, USFS has no control over their preferences. Now, of course, with this being ice dance, there could be some behind-the-scenes maneuvering with SC and the coaches, who knows.

 

[cocotaffy]

So would anyone care to take a stab at where the top six (or if you are really brave, the top ten) are likely to wind up on the GP next season?

Maybe giving the dates might help:

SA Las Vegas - Oct 18-20
SC Kelowna - Oct 25-27
IDF Grenoble - Nov 1-3
CoC Chongqing - Nov 8-10
Rostelecom Moscow - Nov 15-17 RUS
NHK Sapporo Nov 22-24

GPF Torino / ITA Dec 5-8, 2019

S/B might have a tough GP. Apart from the top 3 which are quite predictable, I'm hoping for P/C to finally get a gold at NHK. The rest is blurry.

 

[Dobre]

Since they are not a USA team, USFS has no control over their preferences.

No, but I believe USFS has control over whether C&B come to Skate America. My understanding is that host spot berths are filled even before the top three, much less the top six. USFS could assign their three host spots to other U.S. dance teams or label those spots ETA, and C&B still have to be given two spots on the GP elsewhere. Which by default would mean that either W&P or S&B would be headed for SA.

 

[Ka3sha]

According to Russian forums Alla Loboda has retired and moved to coaching

 

[Bigbird]

According to Russian forums Alla Loboda has retired and moved to coaching

Of which no one said, quelle surprise?

Girl, Shibnev must have cost Morozov a kidney to make him look that good with Vasilisa! Regardless of how I might feel about him as a person, Morozov is an extra-ordinary ice dance coach, the best in Russia. I have to give the man his props, I still frequently watch their (D/S) SD from Russian Nationals in 2017. Loboda and Shibnev's outings were just pitiful by comparison: Krylova has lots to learn.

 

[sharsk8s]

As the season is coming to an end I am expecting we will get announcements of coaching changes/retirements/splits/couples moving up in the near future. Should we make a separate thread to discuss those or just use this thread?

 

[RoseRed]

As the season is coming to an end I am expecting we will get announcements of coaching changes/retirements/splits/couples moving up in the near future. Should we make a separate thread to discuss those or just use this thread?

There's already a thread for the Canadian dance/pairs for splits and retirements, and there have been a bunch of announcements about US juniors in the US dance thread.

So up to you.

 

[cocotaffy]

I could finally watch NBC coverage with Tanith commentaries thanks to this website which was very nicely advised to me by @synian http://fsvids.net/ . Just need to send an email to ask to be registered and you can access for ice dance at least CBC and NBC vids.

 

[synian]

I could finally watch NBC coverage with Tanith commentaries thanks to this website which was very nicely advised to me by @synian http://fsvids.net/ . Just need to send an email to ask to be registered and you can access for ice dance at least CBC and NBC vids.

 

[synian]

This is a very nice site, you have to register, their goal is just about sharing skating videos
It has a ton of video and from a very long times. You have to register but it is a free access. You can help the site with donations in order to help it to keep everything alive. Sometimes there is video who are up for a little time because of the provider used from differents users and you can help to keep thing alive by reposting video. Any help is appreciated.

 

[VGThuy]

I realized with all the accolades for the Disco Brits and Manta/Johnson, what this past season needed was some Daft Punk:

https://twitter.com/tegomass/status/1112200317301604353?s=21

https://twitter.com/tegomass/status/1112205629236621312?s=21

 

[Bigbird]

According to Russian forums Alla Loboda has retired and moved to coaching

Smart girl.

 

[bcash]

I don't think the love for Shibs' twizzles is an American commentators' thing, but something very universal. They have done some extremely difficult and well executed twizzles over the years. My personal favorites are:

https://youtu.be/28mF0RS6SsU?t=15

2014 Ondrej Nepela FD Crossing Pattern, Vertical Axis
Maia:
LFI 6 Rotations Clockwise, holding the blade or boot of the free foot
RBO 6 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, coupee in front or behind with free foot, straight arms clasped in front and extended away from the body
RFO 4 Rotations Clockwise, 3rd set with at least 3 rotations from a different entry edge as the first two sets of twizzles
LBO 2 Rotations Clockwise, arms above the head

Alex:
RFI 6 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, holding the blade or boot of the free foot
LBO 6 Rotations Clockwise, coupee in front or behind with free foot, straight arms clasped in front and extended away from the body
LFO 4 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, 3rd set with at least 3 rotations from a different entry edge as the first two sets of twizzles
RBO 2 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, arms above the head

If you do 2 sets, only 8 rotations are required for level 4 (4 rotations in each set). If you do 3 sets, only 11 rotations are required for level 4 (4 rotations in 1st & 2nd set, 3 rotations in 3rd set). Shibs do 4 sets of twizzles and 18 rotations in total here.

https://youtu.be/28mF0RS6SsU?t=87

2015-2016 "Fix You" Twizzles that match the change in tempo for the FD perfectly

RFI 5 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, free leg held out at 45 degrees or more from vertical, significant continuous motion of the arms
LBO 6 Rotations Clockwise, coupee in front or behind with free foot, straight arms clasped in front and extended away from the body
LFO 4 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, 3rd set with at least 3 rotations from a different entry edge as the first two sets of twizzles
RBO 2 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, arms above the head

https://youtu.be/28mF0RS6SsU?t=156

2017-2018 Latin SD Twizzles
RFI 7 Rotations Counter-Clockwise with free leg held out at 45 degrees or more from vertical, 8th rotation used as exit from first set to match “ocho” in music
LBO 6 Rotations Clockwise, coupee in front or behind with free foot, straight arms clasped in front and extended away from the body
LFO 3 Rotations Counter-Clockwise, 3rd set with at least 3 rotations from a different entry edge as the first two sets of twizzles

You only have to maintain a group A or B level feature for 4 rotations for level 4. In the Shibs 2017-2018 SD, they maintain their free leg held out at 45 degrees or more from vertical feature for 7 rotations in the first set and do an 8th rotation as an exit to match the music going “uno, dos, tres, cuatro, cinco, seis, siete, ocho.”

Admirable, but neither dazzling nor beautiful.

 

[bcash]

If skaters are looking at casual commentary, they would see that Fear/Gibson's programs have gotten positive buzz far above their paygrade this season. And that a lot of people seem to prefer Fournier-Beaudry/Sorenson's FD to Hawayek/Baker, and Stepanova/Bukin to Sinitsina/Katsalapov, and Chock/Bates to Hubbell/Donahue (though I no longer considered their FD predominantly lyrical after their music changes). And they can see and hear the audience reactions for themselves.

I think, looking at the 20 FDs at Worlds, the lyrical trend has already trended down. With the caveat I've seen a lot of disagreement about what emcompasses lyrical. I've seen fans resist the label for Gilles/Poirier's FD while broadly writing off Gadbois' output, which includes disco and Elvis and flamenco and Bruno Mars, as lyrical.

G/P’a program is as “lyrical” as it can be. Sentimental and mushy. People are just blindly staunching for their “creativity”.

 

[bcash]

I came away from this worlds with very mixed feelings, dissatisfied as if something was unresolved. Pap/Ciz were in a league of their own and I found myself enjoying them for the first time in a while. Maybe I expected someone from the next 6 to emerge from the pack as superior and it just didn't happen. Hub/Don should have but their program held them back (although they performed it valiantly); I hope next year's plays to their strengths. I have not yet had a chance to see complete offerings of the Russian teams. . Wea/Po were undervalued as were Cho/Ba. I am most incensed by the underappreciation of Gil/Poir who really had the dance of the season. I do know that I am really tired of lyrical and overwrought passion, both of which often get chosen. Ah well, on to next season. Hope springs eternal!

I think this will be filed as a minor program in P/C’s repertory. They are understandably choosing to skate to something fairly light and accessible. Their quality is sumptuous but the program pales in comparison to last year’s which had such formal purity, complex phrasing and suggestiveness of movements.

 

[VGThuy]

Admirable, but neither dazzling nor beautiful.

The thing is you characterized it as an American commentator thing which is not true. Even the ISU Tech committee used them as an example at 2018 Worlds as twizzles “for sure” deserving of +5s and it wasn’t an American who was saying that. Not to mention the crowd reaction to their twizzles no matter where they compete indicates it’s not just Americans who are dazzled by them.

 

[Colonel Green]

Indeed, the Shibutanis’ twizzle prowess is hardly a US-specific opinion. Carol on CBC has said theirs were the best in the world, as I recall, for one example.

 

[Scrufflet]

I think this will be filed as a minor program in P/C’s repertory. They are understandably choosing to skate to something fairly light and accessible. Their quality is sumptuous but the program pales in comparison to last year’s which had such formal purity, complex phrasing and suggestiveness of movements.

Ah, interesting take. They were probably smart to go that direction this year as it would probably be impossible to top last year and so soon. So next season should be interesting. And I wonder what they have saved up for next Olympics. Or if they do that. I like the word "sumptuous", describes it perfectly.

 

[nuge]

I would like to see the do a Baroque FD something like Denkova/Staviski's 2003 OD.

 

[chameleonster]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BvxcTRanrp4/
Rachel Parsons has decided to step away from the sport in order to treat her eating disorder. Best of luck to her in caring for her health, and to Michael in continuing.