From Russia With Love (No 32): Spring to Summer 2019

[rfisher]

If possible, let's focus on current competitors and not Plushenko vs Yagudin.

Junior Worlds is this week and 2 of the 3As look good for medals. Universiade is also this week and a number of Russian skaters should do well. And, Sr. Worlds is coming quickly. There is plenty to talk about regarding current skaters.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I am very curious why Panova chose not to include Kanysheva on the alt list for the JWC, and to send Sinitsyna to the instead of Kanysheva. Both girls are hers, and she is in charge.

Both girls were just at the "Children of Asia" championship, Kan was 2nd, and Sin was 3rd (behind Korean girl).
Kanysheva has much stronger results and skates the whole season, and 3rd place at JGF...

 

[sharsk8s]

I am very curious why Panova chose not to include Kanysheva on the alt list for the JWC, and to send Sinitsyna to the instead of Kanysheva. Both girls are hers, and she is in charge.

Both girls were just at the "Children of Asia" championship, Kan was 2nd, and Sin was 3rd (behind Korean girl).
Kanysheva has much stronger results and skates the whole season, and 3rd place at JGF...

Didn't she have a weaker showing at JR nats which is where the junior world assignments came from.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Didn't she have a weaker showing at JR nats which is where the junior world assignments came from.

Yes, she had a meltdown at RJN, very bad two days. At the same time ALL other events, including int'l she is obviously stronger than Sinitsyna. Also, the last competition they skated against each other "Children of Asia", she beat Sinitsyna (as she did all season, except for RJN).

 

[hanca]

I am very curious why Panova chose not to include Kanysheva on the alt list for the JWC, and to send Sinitsyna to the instead of Kanysheva. Both girls are hers, and she is in charge.

Both girls were just at the "Children of Asia" championship, Kan was 2nd, and Sin was 3rd (behind Korean girl).
Kanysheva has much stronger results and skates the whole season, and 3rd place at JGF...

I don’t think it was Panova’s choice. Russia sent to junior worlds the top three ladies from Russian junior nationals, and nominated those who placed fourth and fifth as the substitutes. When one of the top three withdrew, Sinitsina who placed fourth at the junior nationals got the spot. What’s so hard to understand?

Kanysheva was successful at JGPF, but JGPF wasn’t selection criteria for junior worlds. The same way as Gubanova wasn’t sent to junior worlds two years ago when she got silver at JGPF, because she didn’t place in top three at the junior nationals.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I don’t think it was Panova’s choice. Russia sent to junior worlds the top three ladies from Russian junior nationals, and nominated those who placed fourth and fifth as the substitutes. When one of the top three withdrew, Sinitsina who placed fourth at the junior nationals got the spot. What’s so hard to understand?

Kanysheva was successful at JGPF, but JGPF wasn’t selection criteria for junior worlds. The same way as Gubanova wasn’t sent to junior worlds the season when she medalled at JGPF, because she didn’t place at top three at junior nationals.

all is true.. except: the Federation is not sending the Ladies to the Worlds according to "order placements of Senior Ladies at Russian Nationals". They are sending it according to "expectations" and other "issues".

Since Kanysheva is stronger, then why not apply the same principle: she beat Sinitsyna in the "very last event" where they skated against each other.

 

[hanca]

all is true.. except: the Federation is not sending the Ladies to the Worlds according to "order placements of Senior Ladies at Russian Nationals". They are sending it according to "expectations" and other "issues".

Since Kanysheva is stronger, then why not apply the same principle: she beat Sinitsyna in the "very last event" where they skated against each other.

Because with juniors it has always been like this. With seniors they choose team for Europeans based on the nationals and team for worlds either same as the team for Europeans, if all of them delivered at the Europeans, or change the weakest skater based on the results from the Russian cup final. Juniors don’t attend Europeans, so their first competition after the junior nationals is the junior worlds. So that’s why they just send the top three ladies from junior nationals. They don’t replace anyone based on the Russian cup final because they don’t have a reason to replace anyone. No one had the opportunity to show themselves as the weakest link.

ETA: this way if someone messed up during their JGP events, they still have a chance to go to junior worlds. For example, in pairs a few seasons ago it was Boikova/Kozlovski who didn’t do that great at their JGP (even though they did get to JGPF) and yet they medalled at junior worlds. Last season the same for Kostiukovich/Yalin - they didn’t get to JGPF but they did get a medal at junior worlds. For juniors who wants to go to junior worlds, they need to do well at the junior nationals. The results throughout the season don’t matter.

 

[Marco]

Absolutely heart broken to learn that Kostornaia is injured and withdrew from WJC. Hope she recovers fully and soon.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Absolutely heart broken to learn that Kostornaia is injured and withdrew from WJC. Hope she recovers fully and soon.

There is no information that she is "injured".
The official release by the Federation states "withdraws, based on/as a result of medical assessments/findings".
https://fsrussia.ru/news/4279-alena...a-v-zagrebe-ee-zamenit-kseniya-sinitsyna.html

Erohov's statement does say "withdrew due to injury" and that it is a "flair up, which he felt during SP programme at the Russian Cup Final".
https://tass.ru/sport/6179908

Because with juniors it has always been like this.

This year it is the dumbest thing the Feds did in Ladies Jr. Kanysheva is pretty much the 4th/5th strongest over all Junior. I think the Feds heavily relied on T-K-S girls going to Junior Worlds, and did not think much about substitutes.

Kanysheva far stronger than Sinitsyna, all season, except bad 2 days at Nationals.
At the last event, 2 weeks ago, Children of Asia, she proved it again.

SP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH1DII3B8Nk
FS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0-th8hhsYs

vs Sinitsina at the same event
SP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zzbt3eN4Fk
FS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TWuKcvBGno

 

[Jeschke]

At the same time ALL other events, including int'l she is obviously stronger than Sinitsyna.

As if that would matter, as seen this season

 

[hanca]

This year it is the dumbest thing the Feds did in Ladies Jr. Kanysheva is pretty much the 4th/5th strongest over all Junior. I think the Feds heavily relied on T-K-S girls going to Junior Worlds, and did not think much about substitutes.

Kanysheva far stronger than Sinitsyna, all season, except bad 2 days at Nationals.
At the last event, 2 weeks ago, Children of Asia, she proved it again.

SP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH1DII3B8Nk
FS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0-th8hhsYs

vs Sinitsina at the same event
SP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zzbt3eN4Fk
FS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TWuKcvBGno

It is not any different than two years ago when Gubanova was one of the strongest juniors, winning every international competition except of JGPF where she was second. And yet, she messed up the junior nationals, and she wasn’t sent to junior worlds. Instead of her they sent Konstantinova who placed at her JGP events only 2nd and 4th, but placed well at the junior nationals thanks to the generosity of home judges. And how that turned out? Konstantinova placed only 6th at junior worlds. There is no doubt that Gubanova was much stronger skater, but didn’t deliver at the junior nationals, so she wasn’t sent. In comparison with that, the difference between Kanysheva and Sinitsina is not as huge as the difference between Konstantinova and Gubanova two years ago.

To be fair, in Kanysheva versus Sinitsina, I am glad the Russian federation is sticking with the results from the junior nationals. Kanysheva has a medal from JGPF and no one can take that away from her. But if they sent her instead of Sinitsina, Sinitsina may never get another chance, considering how many great junior ladies there are in Russia. Sinitsina earned it this time, so she gets her chance. She may grab the chance and get a medal from junior worlds, or she may waste the chance the same way Konstantinova has done in the past. But if a skater earned being sent (according to the criteria that has been consistently enforced), she should get a chance, even if in theory she is the weaker skater. Who would have thought at the beginning of the season that Samodurova will have European gold? She is also ‘the weaker skater’, in theory, in comparison with some other senior ladies.

 

[Tinami Amori]

It is not any different than two years ago when Gubanova was one of the strongest juniors, winning every international competition except of JGPF where she was second. And yet, she messed up the junior nationals, and she wasn’t sent to junior worlds. Instead of her they sent Konstantinova who placed at her JGP events only 2nd and 4th, but placed well at the junior nationals thanks to the generosity of home judges.

If i am not mistaking, if we're talking about Season 2016/17, you're right about much better results of Gubanova vs. Konstantinova up to the both Russian Nat, and Jr. Nat. events.

But there was one more twist "against Gubanova" that worked in favor of Konstantinova, strictly "on merit". Both girls skated in Rus Nat. and Jr. Rus. Nationals, and Gubanova lost to Konstantinova both times, twice in row, in a very short time span. Gub was 7th at both events, and Konst was 6th and 2nd. So there was a "pattern established" of Konstantinova beating Gubanova.

Of course, there were many speculations about the connection between Konst's parents and "russian government/sports ministry" due to the parents' former athletic past, etc. Yet as well, there were arguments in favor of Konstantinova's "better athletic prospects as a Senior".

 

[hanca]

If i am not mistaking, if we're talking about Season 2016/17, you're right about much better results of Gubanova vs. Konstantinova up to the both Russian Nat, and Jr. Nat. events.

But there was one more twist "against Gubanova" that worked in favor of Konstantinova, strictly "on merit". Both girls skated in Rus Nat. and Jr. Rus. Nationals, and Gubanova lost to Konstantinova both times, twice in row, in a very short time span. Gub was 7th at both events, and Konst was 6th and 2nd. So there was a "pattern established" of Konstantinova beating Gubanova.

Of course, there were many speculations about the connection between Konst's parents and "russian government/sports ministry" due to the parents' former athletic past, etc. Yet as well, there were arguments in favor of Konstantinova's "better athletic prospects as a Senior".

That’s true, but that’s still only Konstantinova beating Gubanova at two home competitions, where Konstantinova’s marks were well padded by the judges. She definitely wasn’t getting those marks internationally. And if Gubanova wasn’t given the junior worlds spot for a silved medal in JGPF and two golds at JGP events (and golds at other international competitions), then I can’t see how they would justify giving the spot to Kanysheva this year. It is not as if Kanysheva had as successful international season as Gubanova had two years ago. If nothing else, the Russian federation actually seems to be pretty consistent with their junior spots.

 

[Tinami Amori]

That’s true, but that’s still only Konstantinova beating Gubanova at two home competitions, where Konstantinova’s marks were well padded by the judges. She definitely wasn’t getting those marks internationally. And if Gubanova wasn’t given the junior worlds spot for a silved medal in JGPF and two golds at JGP events (and golds at other international competitions), then I can’t see how they would justify giving the spot to Kanysheva this year. It is not as if Kanysheva had as successful international season as Gubanova had two years ago. If nothing else, the Russian federation actually seems to be pretty consistent with their junior spots.

I actually can see how Kanysheva clearly did better this season than Sinitsyna. Kanisheva placed in all GP events, made it to Finals and placed 3rd. She lost to Sinitsyna only at RJN, but then placed 2nd above Sinitsyna at "Children of Asia". She only lost to Sin in one event. Gub lost to Konstantinova two national events in a row, two last events of that season (2016/17).

But... what's done is done.

 

[hanca]

I actually can see how Kanysheva clearly did better this season than Sinitsyna. Kanisheva placed in all GP events, made it to Finals and placed 3rd. She lost to Sinitsyna only at RJN, but then placed 2nd above Sinitsyna at "Children of Asia". She only lost to Sin in one event. Gub lost to Konstantinova two national events in a row, two last events of that season (2016/17).

But... what's done is done.

You are missing the point. Kanysheva might have done better than Sinitsina during the season, but Sinitsina earned the spot at the junior nationals which was the selection competition for the junior worlds. They could have made an exception, but if getting two gold at two JGP events, silver at JGPF, gold at Egna Trophy, gold at Volvo open cup and gold at Russian cup final was not a good enough reason to forgive Gubanova her under-performance at the junior nationals two years ago, I can’t see why two silver at JGP events, bronze at JGPF, first at Golden bear and second at Children of Asia would be good enough to forgive Kanysheva having such a bad skate at the junior nationals that she placed only 11th.

 

[Ka3sha]

Alexei Mishin about Medvedeva/Tuktamysheva/Fed's decision:

- How do you feel about the Federation's decision to name Evgenia Medvedeva for the Worlds team, when she failed this season? And how do you feel about the national team's choosing system, when the coaching council decides who will be named for the main team and who will be just an alternative?
- It is very difficult for me to answer on your questions because all those people, who are involved in making such decisions, are my friends. I have known Sasha (Aleksandr) Gorshkov for 50 years, we are in very good friendly relationship with him. Sasha (Aleksandr) Kogan - the head of the Federation, also a graduate student, I have known him for his whole life. The half of the judges who worked there are also my mates. I can make only one comparison. I will try to be very careful. Boris Pasternak once wrote one of his novels - Doctor Zhivago. And in that historical period, the best Soviet writers expelled Pasternak from the Union of Writers. Here we have a situation with Liza Tuktamysheva - best Russian coaches voted for Liza not to be named for the World team. None of the Soviet writers read the "Doctor Zhivago" novel, but they thought it was bad. [It is an extremely popular saying in Russia - 'haven't read, but judge it', which was firstly said by some politician in relation to that Pasternak novel]. Not all coaches saw how Liza Tuktamysheva skated. Probably, they did have some considerations, so Liza hadn't been named for the team.
I don't want to discuss this question, there is already a lot of talking on the Internet. It isn't right. We need to be kinder and have more sympathy for the wonderful skaters. And Zhenya Medvedeva is an excellent athlete, who is truly respected by me, and also by Lisa Tuktamysheva. All of them are good athletes and deserve a lot of nice words.
Therefore, I urge the online-community: please, let's love and appreciate figure skating and all the people, who are inside of it. And we, the people who are inside of figure skating, will love you in return.

 

[Tinami Amori]

You are missing the point. Kanysheva might have done better than Sinitsina during the season, but Sinitsina earned the spot at the junior nationals which was the selection competition for the junior worlds. They could have made an exception, but if getting two gold at two JGP events, silver at JGPF, gold at Egna Trophy, gold at Volvo open cup and gold at Russian cup final was not a good enough reason to forgive Gubanova her under-performance at the junior nationals two years ago, I can’t see why two silver at JGP events, bronze at JGPF, first at Golden bear and second at Children of Asia would be good enough to forgive Kanysheva having such a bad skate at the junior nationals that she placed only 11th.

If we are to compare what took place with Gubanova and her placements in 2016/2017, and Kanysheva this season, then yes, you're correct, Gubanova's season was stronger in placements.

I am looking at each year and the two contenders' BOW separately, in their respective/given season. Plus, there were/are many speculations on Konstantinova's "family influence", which is not the case with Sinitsyna. So i'll just leave it at that.

 

[alchemy void]

Alexei Mishin about Medvedeva/Tuktamysheva/Fed's decision:

- How do you feel about the Federation's decision to name Evgenia Medvedeva for the Worlds team, when she failed this season? And how do you feel about the national team's choosing system, when the coaching council decides who will be named for the main team and who will be just an alternative?
- It is very difficult for me to answer on your questions because all those people, who are involved in making such decisions, are my friends. I have known Sasha (Aleksandr) Gorshkov for 50 years, we are in very good friendly relationship with him. Sasha (Aleksandr) Kogan - the head of the Federation, also a graduate student, I have known him for his whole life. The half of the judges who worked there are also my mates. I can make only one comparison. I will try to be very careful. Boris Pasternak once wrote one of his novels - Doctor Zhivago. And in that historical period, the best writers expelled Pasternak from the Soviet Union of Writers. Here we have a situation with Liza Tuktamysheva - best Russian coaches voted for Liza not to be named for the World team. None of the Soviet writers read the novel Doctor Zhivago, but they thought it was bad. [It is an extremely popular saying in Russia - 'haven't read, but judge it', which was firstly said by some politician in relation to that Pasternal novel]. Not all coaches saw how Liza Tuktamysheva skated. Probably, they did have some considerations, so Liza hadn't been named for the team.
I don't want to discuss this question, there is already a lot of talking on the Internet. It isn't right. We need to be kinder and have more sympathy for the wonderful skaters. And Zhenya Medvedeva is an excellent athlete, who is truly respected by me, and also by Lisa Tuktamysheva. All of them are good athletes and deserve a lot of nice words.
Therefore, I urge the online-community: please, let's love and appreciate figure skating and all the people, who are inside of it. And we, the people who are inside of figure skating, will love you in return.

Wow. What a classy response. Major respect to Mishin (and Tuktamysheva) here.

 

[hanca]

If we are to compare what took place with Gubanova and her placements in 2016/2017, and Kanysheva this season, then yes, you're correct, Gubanova's season was stronger in placements.

I am looking at each year and the two contenders' BOW separately, in their respective/given season. Plus, there were/are many speculations on Konstantinova's "family influence", which is not the case with Sinitsyna. So i'll just leave it at that.

But Russian federation can’t win. If they start choosing skaters based on who they believe is the strongest (as opposed to who earned it at the competition that was supposed to be selection competition), they will be criticised of favoritism. If they do it strictly according to the results of the qualifying competition (as they seem to be doing for the past few years), they are criticised for not sending ‘the strongest’ skaters. In my view, Kanysheva is strong, she will have a chance again next season. Look at Scherbakova, she lost her whole first junior eligible season with injury, no JGP events, no JGPF and no junior worlds last season and yet it didn’t hurt her results this season. She still has a chance and will possibly move to seniors next season. So for Kanysheva missing the worlds this season is not a major disaster. She still has a medal from JGPF. On the other hand, considering how strong Russian junior ladies are, who knows if Sinitsina will manage to get herself on the junior worlds team next season. Why not give her the chance, considering she earned it at the junior nationals? And if she wastes this opportunity and place very badly, it is not as if it will hurt Russia. Russia has there Trusova and Scherbakova. No harm done if by any chance Sinitsina has a bad day. On the other hand, she may raise up to the challenge the same way as Samodurova did at the Europeans and who knows, maybe Russia will discover that they have another star raising among junior ladies. Sometimes it takes an unexpected opportunity for someone to be noticed.

 

[SmallFairy]

Mishin! Such class Lots of people could learn from him.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Alexei Mishin about Medvedeva/Tuktamysheva/Fed's decision:

- It is very difficult for me to answer on your questions because all those people, who are involved in making such decisions, are my friends.
....
I can make only one comparison. I will try to be very careful. Boris Pasternak once wrote one of his novels - Doctor Zhivago. And in that historical period, the best writers expelled Pasternak from the Soviet Union of Writers.

Here we have a situation with Liza Tuktamysheva - best Russian coaches voted for Liza not to be named for the World team.

None of the Soviet writers read the novel Doctor Zhivago, but they thought it was bad. [It is an extremely popular saying in Russia - 'haven't read, but judge it', which was firstly said by some politician in relation to that Pasternal novel]. Not all coaches saw how Liza Tuktamysheva skated. Probably, they did have some considerations, so Liza hadn't been named for the team.

Mishin gave an excellent response, yet pretty much accused the coaches in voting "along the party line", without actually seeing Liza skate, or on any merit, other than "stay with wishes of the Federation". Exactly the same accusations as Anatoly Samokhvalov is making in his "Mafia Won" article (translated earlier).

In case the "Doctor Zhivago" and "Union of Soviet Writers" case is not familiar to all: After Pasternak finished his "DZ" novel, it was found to be "anti-Soviet" in some parts, or rather "not pro-Soviet enough", praising too many non-soviet characters, while presenting "pro-Soviet characters not in the best light", plus putting too much emphasis on "the role of Russian intelligencia, who were basically members of the upper class, vs. proletariat".

The book was prevented from being published in the USSR for several decades, as well as attempt were made to prohibit its publication outside of USSR.

Pasternak was brought in front of the members of the Union of Soviet Writers, which consisted of all top authors/writers of the time. He was shamed for being "anti-soviet", and expelled from the Union, which pretty much meant the end of his career as a writer, as he would never be published again in USSR without such membership.

Many Union members did not even read his book, some just never did, and many were too afraid to even admit that they are willing to read something that was considered "anti-soviet". And yet they ALL voted against his membership, and for his exclusion from the Union, because they a) were afraid to go against the party line, b) decided it was easier for them and their careers to be with Majority.

Mishin's analogy is EXACT.

 

[Vash01]

Alexei Mishin about Medvedeva/Tuktamysheva/Fed's decision:

- How do you feel about the Federation's decision to name Evgenia Medvedeva for the Worlds team, when she failed this season? And how do you feel about the national team's choosing system, when the coaching council decides who will be named for the main team and who will be just an alternative?
- It is very difficult for me to answer on your questions because all those people, who are involved in making such decisions, are my friends. I have known Sasha (Aleksandr) Gorshkov for 50 years, we are in very good friendly relationship with him. Sasha (Aleksandr) Kogan - the head of the Federation, also a graduate student, I have known him for his whole life. The half of the judges who worked there are also my mates. I can make only one comparison. I will try to be very careful. Boris Pasternak once wrote one of his novels - Doctor Zhivago. And in that historical period, the best Soviet writers expelled Pasternak from the Union of Writers. Here we have a situation with Liza Tuktamysheva - best Russian coaches voted for Liza not to be named for the World team. None of the Soviet writers read the "Doctor Zhivago" novel, but they thought it was bad. [It is an extremely popular saying in Russia - 'haven't read, but judge it', which was firstly said by some politician in relation to that Pasternak novel]. Not all coaches saw how Liza Tuktamysheva skated. Probably, they did have some considerations, so Liza hadn't been named for the team.
I don't want to discuss this question, there is already a lot of talking on the Internet. It isn't right. We need to be kinder and have more sympathy for the wonderful skaters. And Zhenya Medvedeva is an excellent athlete, who is truly respected by me, and also by Lisa Tuktamysheva. All of them are good athletes and deserve a lot of nice words.
Therefore, I urge the online-community: please, let's love and appreciate figure skating and all the people, who are inside of it. And we, the people who are inside of figure skating, will love you in return.

I love Mishin. (Borrowing from Michelle Obama) When ‘they’ go low, he goes high. The Pasternak example was great.

 

[Tinami Amori]

When ‘they’ go low, he goes high.

I always thought it was "when i get low, i get high"... oh, well...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPnXCPmrV3Y

 

[Ka3sha]

Documentary about Maxim Kovtun: "The Return of the Prodigal Son"
25 minutes, in Russian, some old photos and videos and very honest and interesting interview with Max

Updated: YouTube link

 

[text_skate]

Documentary about Maxim Kovtun: "The Return of the Prodigal Son"
25 minutes, in Russian, some old photos and videos and very honest and interesting interview with Max

It's geo-blocked from Germany.

 

[Ka3sha]

It's geo-blocked from Germany.

Added YouTube link

 

[text_skate]

Added YouTube link

 

[sus2850]

Can someone tell (Google translate did not help) what Fedor Klimov‘s latest instagram post is about? Is it some skating comparison to „Captain Marvel“?
https://www.instagram.com/p/Buq9eO0nMf-/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1jyvvx3o5qn6d

 

[Tinami Amori]

Can someone tell (Google translate did not help) what Fedor Klimov‘s latest instagram post is about? Is it some skating comparison to „Captain Marvel“?
https://www.instagram.com/p/Buq9eO0nMf-/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1jyvvx3o5qn6d

He is saying that he now has a new role model, who gave him a challenge (a motto) to live his life by:

Врываюсь в челлендж от Бри Ларсон (да-да, та самая Капитан Марвел) и рассказываю всем, что для меня значит «Выше. Дальше. Быстрее». Этот девиз о ежедневном героизме, когда ты, несмотря на обстоятельства, отговорки, оправдания, несешься к своей цели на сверхзвуковой, а когда силы заканчиваются, говоришь: «Нет, это ещё не всё, погнали по новой».

Taking on a challenge from Brie Larson (yes-yes, that very one, from Captain Marvel). I am sharing with everyone, what it means for me (to become) "The Highest. The Furthest. The Fastest". This is the motto for the daily heroism, when you, regardless of obstacles, denials, excuses, is dashing towards your goal on a supersonic power; and when your strength are depleted, you still say "No, this is not the end! Start again/keep going".

 

[sus2850]

Thank you! Great guy, awesome movie.