Coughlin's Safe Sport Status Changed to Interim Suspension

[tony]

If you guys want to bash bash Dave Lease / TSL, could you please go the TSL thread and do it there? I think it’s really inappropriate here.

I’m not bashing him in the slightest here, but there is every right for people to question why he alluded to something without any kind of backup or facts.

He wanted something that is potentially a huge problem to be more visible to everybody, but now he’s slammed on the brakes by raising more questions based on what he and he alone has brought forward.

 

[MK's Winter]

The ‘published information’ was part of a long sentence, meaning why share that as a way of bringing it to the attention of many people in the sport as a means of getting some answers and then raising more questions with his own comments?

@GarrAargHrumph has already replied a few posts above sharing the same view regarding the way it’s presented.

Raising questions is what should be happening.

 

[tony]

Raising questions is what should be happening.

He’s raising questions based on what he claims he knows. He’s the one that should be answering them.

 

[MK's Winter]

He’s raising questions based on what he claims he knows. He’s the one that should be answering them.

For the behavior of other people? I’ll agree to disagree. This is a situation that has people shook. And rightfully so. Tragic on all sides. I’m concerned for athletes. I’ll leave it at that.

 

[Tavi]

I’m not bashing him in the slightest here, but there is every right for people to question why he alluded to something without any kind of backup or facts.

He wanted something that is potentially a huge problem to be more visible to everybody, but now he’s slammed on the brakes by raising more questions based on what he and he alone has brought forward.

If your goal is to really to ask questions / raise an issue that only Dave can answer, maybe you should contact him on Twitter.

 

[overedge]

I don't think anyone is saying that Dave should reveal his sources, or that he doesn't have the right to raise questions. But just stating "the judges are mad at one of the accusers" isn't raising a question, and it gives no context to the listeners/readers. It's not good journalism to leave big holes like that in a story.

Did a judge say to him "I'm mad at [whoever]?" - and if they did, I would hope Dave would ask some follow-up questions, like, how many others feel this way, and why do you feel this way?. Did someone say to him "I bet the judges are mad" and he interpreted that as judges being mad, without confirming whether that was true? Did someone say to him "I heard that [judge] is mad at [accuser]" and if so, did he confirm that?

And if what he's implying is that the allegedly mad judges might take it out on the accuser by marking them down at Nationals, he should say that and explain what leads him to believe that might happen.

 

[gkelly]

SafeSport is understaffed and underfunded. Then why was such an entity allowed to conduct any kind of investigation into sexual misconduct in any sport!?

The alternative would be no investigation at all.

If there isn't a well-funded dedicated organization to investigating sexual misconduct in sport, then the only options are investigation by an underfunded organization or no investigation.

 

[nlloyd]

I don't think anyone is saying that Dave should reveal his sources, or that he doesn't have the right to raise questions. But just stating "the judges are mad at one of the accusers" isn't raising a question, and it gives no context to the listeners/readers. It's not good journalism to leave big holes like that in a story.

Did a judge say to him "I'm mad at [whoever]?" - and if they did, I would hope Dave would ask some follow-up questions, like, how many others feel this way, and why do you feel this way?. Did someone say to him "I bet the judges are mad" and he interpreted that as judges being mad, without confirming whether that was true? Did someone say to him "I heard that [judge] is mad at [accuser]" and if so, did he confirm that?

And if what he's implying is that the allegedly mad judges might take it out on the accuser by marking them down at Nationals, he should say that and explain what leads him to believe that might happen.

I haven't been following what Leese said on the issue of the judges, but I have read at least one comment by a prominent judge in response to Sappenfield's initial facebook post, that would give me pause about their ability to be neutral in judging the complainant's skating. The post doesn't refer to the complainant at all, but argues that Coughlin's life has been ruined, implies that it was social media posts that prompted his suicide, and claims that "due process" was not done.

It raises the question for me of the relationship of coaches and judges toward the organization that has been mandated by USFSA and USOC to investigate unethical behavior of coaches, officials, skaters etc. I mean, how often do we see coaches/judges/officials in other sports speak overtly against a regulatory authority. Is there no requirement that they abide by the processes and findings of that authority?

 

[Stephori]

One more nasty aspect. I’ve had three acquaintances ask me about this because they knew I’m a FS fan, and they all assumed the victims were boys. Because all male figure skaters are gay, of course. So in addition to the other issues, let’s add some homophobic assumptions.

Several bio sites I came across today write that John was rumored to be gay.

 

[aftershocks]

The alternative would be no investigation at all.

If there isn't a well-funded dedicated organization to investigating sexual misconduct in sport, then the only options are investigation by an underfunded organization or no investigation.

But that shouldn't be the case. Fund and staff the organization, and make sure the people doing the investigations are skilled in what they are doing. Or what's going on with an underfunded, inadequate investigation not being conducted in a timely fashion? USFS as I said should have been ahead of the curve on this issue in any case with education workshops, counseling and an impartial authority charged with being the first resource to lodge complaints with, IMO.

 

[sam-skwantch]

Several bio sites I came across today write that John was rumored to be gay.

What is a bio site?

 

[Orm Irian]

The post doesn't refer to the complainant at all, but argues that Coughlin's life has been ruined, implies that it was social media posts that prompted his suicide, and claims that "due process" was not done.

That judge should perhaps read this Twitter thread on the issue of due process in this case: https://twitter.com/courtneymilan/status/1087856636239073281

 

[overedge]

Several bio sites I came across today write that John was rumored to be gay.

Sources/links? Or are you sealioning?

 

[mag]

But that shouldn't be the case. Fund and staff the organization, and make sure the people doing the investigations are skilled in what they are doing. Or what's going on with an underfunded, inadequate investigation not being conducted in a timely fashion? USFS as I said should have been ahead of the curve on this issue in any case with education workshops, counseling and an impartial authority charged with being the first resource to lodge complaints with, IMO.

When you say “Fund and staff the organization...” where are you thinking the money will come from? If it is government funding you are thinking about then would that mean a tax increase or a cut to some other funding. Should sports organizations be required to contribute or contribute more? If so, would that money come from membership, coaches, sponsorship?

It is easy to criticize an organization like Safe Sport, but it seems to me that they are doing the best they can do given the resources they have been given.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Sources/links? Or are you sealioning?

(I have NO horses in this race)

I also came across two sites with same info about the "rumor" (as Stephori is stating). Don't know how reputable they are.. but they say the same thing. here is one:
https://biowikis.com/john-coughlin/
John Coughlin was single before his death. There was no information regarding his relationship filling. Once, he was rumored being gay. However, no any official statement made that rumor right.

 

[el henry]

Once I was rumored to be Czarina of all the Russia’s.

Go ahead, change my mind

 

[aftershocks]

When you say “Fund and staff the organization...” where are you thinking the money will come from? If it is government funding you are thinking about then would that mean a tax increase or a cut to some other funding. Should sports organizations be required to contribute or contribute more? If so, would that money come from membership, coaches, sponsorship?

It is easy to criticize an organization like Safe Sport, but it seems to me that they are doing the best they can do given the resources they have been given.

I'm saying if this is a hugely important concern, which it is, there needs to be some way for the effort to be properly funded. This, even if the group has to do their own fundraising, or why bother? Understaffed and underfunded to me reeks of inability to conduct investigations fully, timely and beneficially.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Once I was rumored to be Czarina of all the Russia’s.
Go ahead, change my mind

Oh, goodie... The Ghost of Alexandra is still with us...

 

[overedge]

Once I was rumored to be Czarina of all the Russia’s.

Go ahead, change my mind

 

[Tinami Amori]

The poster Stephori said "it was rumored". You asked him/her for a site (that shows there is such rumor).
Now you've seen the site. What is the problem? There are sites that say that there is such "rumor" and Stephori was correct. (and i've never seen Stephori before)

 

[ballettmaus]

No truth can be learned without a full hearing of both sides. That has been rendered impossible.

I would respectfully disagree. We're human, we have our own opinions, perceptions and interpretations of an incident. Unless the accused admits to crime or offense, often times it's evidence besides testimony which tells us which side of the story is true or, at least, more likely to be true, or if maybe both sides aren't truthful. It's also why sexual misconduct allegations are so hard to prove because there rarely are witnesses and it often relies on he-said/she-said.

 

[Prancer]

Several bio sites I came across today write that John was rumored to be gay.

You seem to read an awful lot of unreliable junk web sites. In some ways, I have to say I admire your nerve, as most people here don't have a lot of tolerance for unreliable junk web sites and they are going to let you know it.

You are not providing information; you are making people think you are a troll.

 

[CaliSteve]

I completely agree with almost all of your post but I think it’s a dangerous precedent to set that if an accused commits suicide that the details, extent, and nature of their accusations go unreported. In a way this creates an incentive for those accused to take this tragic route if it hides the truth. I also think it can be seen as yet another assault on the victim.

If Safe Sport doesn’t complete their investigation (for better or for worse) then I’d argue that it is a pretty poor reflection on them. I believe it is ok to say they can be better and need to improve their procedures. We NEED them to do this job!! We also need to protect ALL involved in their investigations and see every action taken within reason to promote an honest and successful completion of that process.

From what I understand, SafeSports procedures always closes out their investigation when one of the parties becomes deceased.

I personally would like to see them complete the investigation. My questions is how do they continue the investigation when the accused is deceased. Would peopled accepted the findings if it goes against the deceased?

 

[mag]

I'm saying if this is a hugely important concern, which it is, there needs to be some way for the effort to be properly funded. This, even if the group has to do their own fundraising, or why bother? Understaffed and underfunded to me reeks of inability to conduct investigations fully, timely and beneficially.

Do their own fundraising? I am assuming they would not be able to give out tax receipts (sorry I don’t know how that works in the US) because they are not a charitable organization. So they would need to hire fundraising staff to raise money for their operating budget? Seriously? Maybe it would be better to put a fee on all sporting event tickets, live streams, cable subscriptions etc that went directly to Safe Sport. After all, we all enjoy watching these athletes, maybe we should be providing funding to make sure they are safe. Ticket outlets, cable providers, live sport operators, NGO’s could all add 10% to the cost of tickets which would in turn help fund Safe Sport.

 

[Japanfan]

Nothing different than what is simulated on the ice and in practices... i am sure... It must be tough to determine what is "inappropriate touching" lately..

All those links are to programs. That's an entirely different context from the workplace or elsewhere.

 

[MK's Winter]

From what I understand, SafeSports procedures always closes out their investigation when one of the parties becomes deceased.

I personally would like to see them complete the investigation. My questions is how do they continue the investigation when the accused is deceased. Would peopled accepted the findings if it goes against the deceased?

They can continue the investigation if they believe there are systemic problems, such as who knew what and when. Christine stated and wrote that. I think that was put out there for a reason.

 

[mollymgr]

They can continue the investigation if they believe there are systemic problems, such as who knew what and when. Christine stated and wrote that. I think that was put out there for a reason.

I'm still not clear on that. Does that mean they will continue only if more people come forward with more info?

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

I'm still not clear on that. Does that mean they will continue only if more people come forward with more info?

It means they will continue if they find out that people who should have reported did not and were covering up.

 

[kittysk8ts]

I'm still not clear on that. Does that mean they will continue only if more people come forward with more info?

I think this is about the “mandatory reporting” requirement implemented by SafeSport i.e. if there were other adults who were aware of misconduct and failed to report it.

 

[CaliSteve]

But that shouldn't be the case. Fund and staff the organization, and make sure the people doing the investigations are skilled in what they are doing. Or what's going on with an underfunded, inadequate investigation not being conducted in a timely fashion? USFS as I said should have been ahead of the curve on this issue in any case with education workshops, counseling and an impartial authority charged with being the first resource to lodge complaints with, IMO.

I agree! But that would also require a complete culture change (long over due) which would be a huge task.