Imamov's interview with Kostornaya `Don't think I would be friends with myself. Am quite a tough personality'


Cats and garlic lover
Rustam Imamov's interview with Alena Kostornaya for `Don't think I would be friends with myself. Am quite a tough personality'

The Olympic Champion Lipniski named Kostornaya the hope of the ladies skating. According to her Alena was able to find the right balance between the jumps and the programme, the gliding and the emotions.

RI: It've been almost a month since we can't go out in Russia. You, as a skater, are used to the very active life - constant travelling, the competitions, the practices. How do you overcome it?
AK: It's really tough. The first week I held it together more or less- I had things to do. Now am bored out of my skin. I'm sick of the routine. One day is the same as the other. It influences.

RI: What do you normally do?
AK: The morning I have lessons, I learn till around 14:30. Then the first practice, a short break, the second practice. I do my homework starting around 7pm. The rest of the time I can dedicate to my hobbies. I try to go to sleep at 10pm.

RI: I.e. you keep a strict schedule even while in self isolation?
AK: I take it very seriously. Perhaps when you are not leaving your house anyway waking up early is not really important, but you can't let yourself slide. If I ruin the routine now it will be harder to go back. I'd rather get used to going to sleep and waking up now than break it later.

RI: Having time for your hobbies - is an advantage of the current situation?
AK: I wouldn't put it that way. We are not leaving the house, so I can't really have fun. I sit there and suffer and have nothing better to do.

RI: What about the movies, the books?
AK: As we speak I read the known neurosurgeon Henry Marsh `Do no harm'. I also watch the `Grey's anatomy' since the beginning of the year. It's a long one, with many episodes and each episode is quite long. Just the right thing for the quarantine time.

RI: The Marsh's book is a worldwide bestseller. What stood out there for you?
AK: The first time I got a book about the neurosurgery from a fan, who met met in the airport on the way from the Graz Europeans. She become a close friend of mine and we wrote each other a lot. We met in persona and I asked her advice for the other medical books. She gave me the Henry Marsh book. It's an easy read and I love it that every chapter deals with a different case from his practice, a different disease. He is sincere about what the daily routine of the neurosurgeon is like. It's all written in a clear language, yet colourful.

RI: Is there a story that captivated you the most?
AK: Every story is interesting in it's own way, but I reread the story about the aneurysm clipping - I read a lot about that surgery before and I was told about it a lot so it was interesting to read about such a known surgeon's experience.

RI: The book talks a lot about the doctor-patient ethics. He tells how he had to talk to the relatives of the people who died because of his mistakes. Could you do that?
AK: I understand it's very hard, but I yes, I could. If the patience died and it's your fault you have to find it within yourself to admit it. It's your mistake, not your patient's who has no control over what is going on. Being a doctor is about the responsibility. A huge responsibility - a human life is in your hands. If things went wrong the doctor has to be accountable for their errors. He took that responsibility when he became one.

RI: Can you compare the responsibility in the sports and in the medical field?
AK: Let me compare a surgery to an ultra c jump. If you learn the jump correctly at the first place at the end you'll do it right. The same in medicine. The preparations are important. If you diagnosed right, and did all that needs to be done to cure the disease your patient will probably improve. Of course there is a chance to fall from the jump and for the patient to die. But the odds would be low. At least you have to do everything within your power. And if things go wrong you have to find it in you to admit the mistake. Both in sports and in medicine.

RI: Are you sometimes disgusted reading or watching the surgeries?
AK: No, never. Am not afraid of the sight of blood. I don't wear the pink medical glasses and I understand being a neurosurgeon is very hard. Am not looking for the shortcuts. I love that profession so much and for my dream I am ready to sacrifice a lot. I love medicine, so I have to at least try to find out whether it's my thing.

RI: The Finnish skater Virtannen was telling how he combines the skating and being a doctor. Would you be able to be like him?
AK: I doubt. I give myself fully to one thing. In order to be a good skater you have to spend 24/7 on the ice. In order to be a good doctor - with the books and the studies. You shouldn't try to do 10 things at once. There will be no quality there. Your resources are not endless. You can invest it all in one thing and be successful or in two and lack results in both.

RI: Now you are getting ready to the exams for the medical school. Their exams are one of the toughest. Are you ready for that?
AK: I know what I'm going for. I take private lessons, read a lot. There is enough time ahead of me - am doing the exams next year.

RI: Have you decided on the subjects?
AK: A plan a lot so I can later choose the university. I plan chemistry, biology, Russian, math, English and the social theory.

RI: Are you good in all these subjects?
AK: Some are better, some are worse. I've been studying biology for a while but began from the scratch now for the exams. We get the general level in the school, but I need the increased level for the university. The other subjects are quite allrigth.

RI: A lot of skaters become coaches after retiring. That was never an option for you?
AK: No, I was never interested in coaching. After retiring I might do some shows. But I don't want to coach.

RI: Half a year ago you said you gave up on your dream being a doctor, yet now you are working for the medical university. What have changed?
AK: I was influenced a lot by my new friend Yana, who gave me those neurosurgery books. She is a nurse. When I started talking to a person who sees the surgeries every day I started taking that profession differently. And liked her even more. Am very grateful to Yana because previously I was not exposed to what goes on in medicine behind the scenes.

RI: Let us go back to the Spring of 2017, when you were still in another coach's group. You results were not particularly high and you were not well know. Be frank: was it easier back then, or now, when you are a world star?
AK: Let's start with me not being a star. Yes, I had some success in my field - figure skating. Sure, our sport became recently very popular in many countries, it's still a far cry from being a world level star. I think it's wrong to call me a star. I'm just a person.
My life had hardly changed after the success in figure skating. Some write me in instagram, some are interested in me, there are more instagram followers. But otherwise I see no changes. The amount of followers is just numbers don't mean a thing. Sometimes am recognized and asked to take a photo with, but not often.

RI: How do you take such requests?
AK: I never decline. People don't ask for my photo or signature just out of the blue - it means they are interested in me. I remember when I was little I was afraid to approach my idols and ask for a photo. You have to gather the courage to approach, hence I respect my fans who have that courage.

RI: That spring you participated the Russian cup - your last competition before moving to Tutberidze. You became almost last, you were 60 points behind the winner - Zagitova. What did you feel?
AK: First of all I made to that competition as a substitute. I wasn't even supposed to be there. The other girls withdrew so I went. I understood there is no chance to place high, I had a weak technical content. I had the jumping content of the last century, while the other girls had a more impressive list. I didn't skate clean. So the almost last was a painful but a justified result.

RI: Did you believe back then in just 2.5 years you will hold the world records?
AK: No, I didn't even dream about it.

RI: Did you mind losing? Did you have ambitions?
AK: Of course. Of course I wanted to be among the leaders. I saw the Tutberidze girls - Zagitova, Panenkova, Tsurskaya, Trusova. In that competition I was in the same practice group with them. And I understood they are just as human and not superhuman. If you train hard you can be at least half successful. Then I decided to try skating in Eteri Tutberidze's group. The career went up. You could say that competition changed my life.

RI: What stood out the most when you were watching Tutberidze girls practices?
AK: I didn't see any really hard practices at that competition. I saw how consistent they are. They went one after the other and landed their triple triple combinations. All clean with good exit and so easily! Only when I switched to Khrustalny I learned what was the prices of that consistency. I was amazed with their hard working ethics.

RI: Can you recall how the try out for Tutberidze's group went?
AK: We came to an evening practice and were sent to the dance class. The girls were working on the modern dance, learning a new combination. I stood somewhere afar and was doing the moves. Then Eteri Georgievna entered the class. Frankly, I wanted to hide so I would not be seen. She noticed me, but didn't say much. A new girl -well a new girl. Let's see how she does and decide. I finished the practice and at the end Daniil Gleikhengauz told me that I'll probably be accepted. After that I spent another week on `Tchaikovskaya skate' rink and after all the paperwork was done moved to Tutberidze.

RI: I.e. first time you were afraid of your new coach?
AK: It's normal - it's meeting a new person. Even now, 3 years later am nervious every time I see Eteri Georgievna. Even if I know all is well and the practice went fine just her gaze can give you goosebumps. First it was twice as scary and indeed hard.

RI: After just a few months of practicing with Tutberidze you became 3rd in the Nationals. What caused such a progress?
AK: You can't help working hard in her practices. You will be notified immediately if you don't. You don't focus and do something stupid and a shout across the rink `Alena, come over' will come. Or my last name across the rink. That `Kostornaya' with Eteri Georgievna's expression would be enough to understand I'm in trouble. She doesn't even have to say much - I understand.

RI: So before you switched to Tutberize you were not working hard in the practices?
AK: Frankly, you could say I was not practicing at all. The demands were different.

RI: Did Eteri change anything in the way you depict the character?
AK: I think she picked the interesting and right programmes for me and polished them. She helped me to live up to my potential, put on the spot light my best qualities and hid the rest. For example my bad arms. The coaches did a huge work with me, learned of my pros and cons tried to magnify the pros.

RI: A lot of time we hear that Tutberize is very demanding. You said she is very fair. How does it come out in working? What will be Tutberidze's first reaction after a bad skate?
AK: Depends what do you consider a bad skate and what was it: the competition or the practice. As for the competitions, I don't think I had more than one fall a competition while with Tutberidze. I think my worst was the GP in Czech Republic in September 2018.
Eteri Georgievna called me before the LP and set me right. I did make some mistakes still. When I returned to Moscow we worked on every element I made mistakes on and I got some, let's say, recommendation on my skating. For a couple of weeks I had double practices so it would not happen again.

RI: So you learned your lesson?
AK: The bad skate does not happen because you planned it to be bad. It sometimes just happens. But I still try to do everything within my power so it won't.

RI: What about the almost perfect skate? What would Tutberidze say?
AK: Almost perfect means an average. I.e. the coaches will not say anything. They will point on some minor mistakes, where I could improve.

RI: They point on your mistakes even after breaking the world record?
AK: Of course it happens. They would praise me for somethings but there are still elements I could improve and they will point on them, so the next time I can be even better. But they will say some nice words and they often do

RI: Do you talk to Tutberidze about the general stuff?
AK: Seldom. She sometimes gives me advice, but not often. For example on the make up. But I can't say we talk a lot about the things not related to skating. We are focused on the work during the practices.

RI: Define your team mates in a couple of words
AK: Let's start with Sasha. Unstoppable. Anna is really intelligent. Alina is unbreakable. No matter what happens she would not break. Just like her exhibition - `Survivor'

RI: What do you take from them?
AK: From Anna - how to behave. Not everyone likes my very sincere style and think it's cheeky. I sometimes get the feedback from the fans about what I said in the interview. Anna is much more careful. From Alina - controlling my emotions. There are times when you have to show them, but sometimes you have to keep it for yourself. I still learn the right boundaries. From Sasha, I guess I learn how to be fearless.

RI: Are you more in touch with the girls from your group or the juniors?
AK: We are all in touch, there is no separation between the seniors and the juniors. We are equal. There are some talks the kids will not participate, but in general we don't talk about anything that wouldn't interest them as well. We all have a point of view and we all listen to each other. There is no shouting to prove the point.
I think it's right that we have no importance for the age, you don't have to listen to me just because I'm older. Older does not mean better. The titles and the victories are not making me better either. We all have a right for our point of view and we have to respect the others no matter how old they are. We listen to each other.

RI: Who are you more in touch with among the juniors? Who is closer to you and shares your interests?
AK: I'm good with everyone. Am more in touch with Daria Usacheva and Sofia Akatieva. We shared a room in Novogorks for 3 month, so we became very close and can discuss anything any time. Adelya Petrosian resembles me the most - she has a very strong mind.

RI: From the outside it seems the ultra c elements work looks like: Trusova learns a new quad. Scherbakova does the combos with the quads and you do the 3A. Do you motivate each other? Do you think you were lucky to skate at the same time in the same group?
AK: I think we are lucky to be together. The other skaters motivate you and you start thinking about your content. It's a good thing we compete with each other, it pushes us.

RI: You think if you were not working with them you wouldn't think about the 3A?
AK: I was told my many people to land the 3A, as if I was pushed to do it. I was told my 2A is high and good enough for another rotation. They didn't understand why I haven't rushed into it. So no, my 3A is not about watching Anna and Sasha landing the quads.
Yes, I was annoyed they can do the ultra C and I can't. Yet it was hard for me to push myself to learn the new elements. What changed my mind was the talks in the test skates in September. All the talks were like `If she was doing the 3A - they all do the ultra C and you don't...'
I was hurt. How come they can and I can't? So it got me mad in a good way. I decided this is it, the next competition am doing the 3A. Nevermind if I don't land it, but there will be a 3A in my content. After that learning the jump became easier.

RI: When was the first time you landed the 3A in the practice?
AK: If you mean this season it was when Anna was in the Challenger in Italy. If you mean the very first time it was after my first junior season - after the Worlds. I was attempting a 4T and a 4S on a harness. Later Rozanov offered me to try the 3A with the harness. I didn't really want to and started with the excuses. I tried a couple of times during the practice and by the evening he told me to try without the harness. I was surprised but decided to give it a try. The first attempt was lame, I fell. The coach told me to try to put more power into the jump and then it will work. And indeed I landed my second attempt. The next day we shot the video.

RI: If the element was ready why didn't you try it at the competition?
AK: I learned the 3A before the vacation, and it took me a while to get the jumps back after. I was only back to shape by the middle of the season. I didn't have time to learn a new jump : you don't do that during the competitive season.

RI: In one of the interviews you admitted being afraid of the 3A. What made you overcome the fear?
AK: I'm still afraid. Every time I attempt the 3A I have no idea what will happen. I try to control everything, but the first attempts are very hard. I don't know how my body will behave.
The only thing that helps is counting. But even that does not always help and a slightest wrong move will ruin it. The fall might be severe. Hence in the practices I'm quite careful with the first attempts and only later do it with the full power. After the current break I can't even imagine who will I get the jumps back.

RI: You'll have to start from the scratch?
AK: Unfortunately, yes.

RI: Is it possible you'll set yourself for working on the quad like you did the 3A?
AK: It's quite the same. I attempted the 4S. I landed it once, being about 1/4 underotated. I.e. it's possible to work on it. I only attempted the quad about 5-6 times. It's nothing.

RI: You said you wanted to be careful when working on the quad. What do you mean?
AK: I will not kill myself with the quad in every practice. You have to work without insanity. 3-4 attempts a practice are fine.

RI: Trusova and Scherbakova plan increasing the content - Anna is working on a 3A, Sasha is considering a 4loop. Is it a sign for you to go on?
AK: I will try. Whatever will be will be. My main goal is to participate all the main competition and be on the top. The last season my content was enough. If the next season I'll have to learn the quad - well, I will. As long as I can be competitive without the quad I'd rather be consistent. I will not rush things.

RI: There are athletes who say they love the skating itself. The medals are less important. It's not your case, right?
AK: I think every athlete wants to win. When you say it's just for the sake of the skating I think it's a small lie. That's the essence of the sports - to win. It's much nicer to skate well and be on the podium than skate well and be 11th. There is a difference if both skates were clean, right?

RI: Do you read the comments? Do they upset you?
AK: I read some, but if it's the adequate critique I try to think of it and deal with it. But all and all I don't care. Everyone has a point of view. I try not to mind.

RI: In one of the interviews you said you wanted to skate till the age of 21. Why 21?
AK: Not exactly. I said I want to skate till the Beijing Olympics. I really want to make it there. The Olympics are every athlete's dream. If possible - I'll do shows after. I really loved the shows I got to participate and I would love to do some more.

RI: So we'll certainly see you on the ice at 2022?
AK: Yes. After that I'll have my exams for the medical school. I will take a gap year and then begin the studies.

RI: Will the amount of medals influence your decision? Say, you'll become 2nd at the Olympics, so there will be a motivation to go on, to win?
AK: Participating the Olympics would be a huge success for me. Becoming second would be amazing, which not many could do. Becoming one of the 3 best - isn't it a reason to be happy and proud? I don't care about the titles as much as, say, Alina Zagitova. It was important or her to collect all the possible medals. Or Evgenia Medvedeva, who became 2nd at the Olympics and now keeps skating to win.
I just enjoy the skating career, enjoy what I do. I don't have a list of achievements that I need to fill. My main goal is participating the Olympics. Just to make it there would be enough for me and for my career. Again, I want to win, but to winning the Olympics or any other competition would not be the end of the world for me.

RI: This year you had a very good chance winning the Worlds. Were you really upset when the competition was cancelled?
AK: No, I wasn't thinking about it. If it happened- it was meant to be. There as some childish hurt - we were working so hard, I spend so much time and effort preparing an it was all for nothing.

RI: And now you'll have to go through the selection in the toughest competition in the world - the Nationals.
AK: Yes. What can I do? Oh well. We start anew every year. It's a shame, but not quite a tragedy.

RI: While being a junior you medalled at the nationals but could not participate the main competitions because of the age. Were you upset?
AK: Not at all. I knew from the beginning I will not be able to make it to the senior competitions and was ready that if am lucky enough to make it to the podium it would be rather useless.

RI: How did you motivate yourself to skate well if there was no point?
AK: The first time I was going just to show myself. The first senior competition is an opportunity to make a statement. The second time I went with a thought to keep my standing, toe show I did not become any worse that I was a year ago. Yet every Nationals something goes wrong for me. Not a big deal, I still have time to win it.

RI: Do you think the age limit is needed?
AK: The way it is now - I think yes. There is a huge difference the way I was skating my first junior season and now. It's harder for me to skate the programme now. Previously I was able to skate in front of the audience, the federation, no matter what the pressure was - just skate my programme without an additional effort. I can't anymore.
Now I need the warm up, the lacing, do do some jumps on the floor, to make sure all is well, set myself and calm down. I wasn't thinking about it previously. I would take my skates and just toy with the phone before the competition. I would hear I would be next and would just go on. Ok, put my skates on and off I went. I didn't sweat. This season I had to put some effort to skate well. It was a weird feeling.

RI: Yet in the Nationals the age limit is 2 years lower, so you went to the international competitions with an experience skating seniors. Did it help?
AK:Every competition is a different experience. I cant' say the Nationals gave me an experience and the junior competitions did not. You have to take something from every competition.

RI: The nationals were not special for you? After all you were sharing the ice with all the senior skaters who won all these titles. It means a lot for a junior.
AK: Frankly, I didn't pay much attention. All i wanted at the Nationals while junior was just to show my best. All I can do.

RI: Is it easier for you to compete when you are a sure leader or when the competition is high?
AK: There is no such thing a sure leader. There is always a competition and the main one - myself. I never felt the lack of competition.

RI: Ok, but the figure skating now is all about math. You surely see the planned content of your rivals and know what to expect?
AK: You can calculate where will you place if you skate clean. But you can never tell how will it go, how will your programme go. It's a thin ice. Besides, I try not to look at the other's content before the competition. Especially how the others skated before I do. It bothers.

RI: A lot of skaters name you as an example for the ideal balance between the technical content and the artistry. What do you think about it?
AK: On one hand it's flattering, on the other - it's funny. I haven't done yet much in the sport, I haven't won any major competition. I just do what my coaches told me to do and even that not always the best. There are mishaps at my skates, you can't escape it. Hence when I hear am being called an example or an ideal - I can't agree. If there was another Alena Kostornaya, my exact copy, I'm not sure I would name her as my idol in figure skating and would set her as an example.

RI: Your components are marked very high. Is it the result of the practices?
AK: I work on the components, just like all the other girls for as long as the coach allows us. I try to do my best.

RI: The skating skills - is it something from your childhood or something you learned with Tutberidze?
AK: I think I learned that mainly in the recent years influenced by Eteri Georgievna.

RI: I.e. you wouldn't call your skating before switching to Khrustalny correct?
AK: I was given the right base in `Tchaikovskaya's skate', but I lacked time to work on the elements. I had about 10-15 minutes tops for the warm up. Now I have a full 30 minutes warm up, which is enough time to work on the gliding.

RI: Is figure skating a sport or an art for you?
AK: Both. Of course we practice a lot, so the physical strain is high. Yet it must look nice. You have to keep a certain balance.

RI: Do you understand how?
AK: Well, the skating skills example would be Carolina Kostner. The jumping - Sasha Trusova. The ideal skater would have Kostner's skating skills and Trusova's jumps. Just that for now, unfortunately, it's impossible. If you spend all your time on the jumping you don't have enough left to work on the skating. And the other way around - working on the gliding only does not leave time to learn the new jumps.

RI: What was the hardest moment of your life?
AK: Probably like for every athlete - an injury. Every injury is a challenge. You sit home, you can't practice, it's hard. Recovering after the injury is even harder.

RI: When was the last time you had a serious injury?
AK: Last year before the Junior worlds. Which I ended up missing.

RI: How did you coup?
AK: Easily. I didn't think about the worlds - my leg hurt and it bothered me more. After talking to the coaches and the doctors we decided to withdrow. Why take someone's spot if I can't skate my best and show what I can do?

RI: In theory - could you still go and skate through the pain?
AK: I would, but nothing good would come out of it. I wouldn't be able to skate my programme well. Forget well, I wouldn't be able to finish it. And there was a chance injuring myself even further.

RI: What was the moment of the absolute happiness?
AK: The victory. Doesn't matter which competition -every time you are on the podium you realize you overcame yourself. You did your job, and you are on the top. It's a huge feeling of being proud of myself, of my work, of my coaches.

RI: No particular competition?
AK: No, it's the fact you won, the work you done. Not the actual title. Hence all the competitions are equal..

RI: What do you notice first when meeting a new person?
AK: I don't know. I have some inner `feeling'. Either am attracted to the person or am not. Then I decide whether to keep in touch based on that. I can't explain how it works, but I sense `my people' who I like, who I want to spend time with. That's how I pick my friends.

RI: Would you be friends with yourself?
AK: I don't know.. Guess I wouldn't be able being around such a person. So no, I don't think I would be friends with myself. I have a tough character.

RI: What would you change in you?
AK: I don't want to change. I want to remain the way I am. A lo of mark me positive, a lot - negative. But am true to myself. I don't want to become someone am not to suit the others. If someone dislikes the way I communicate -oh well. Its your right and you don't have to talk to me.

RI: Are you a confident person?
AK: Depends. I can tell a person when they are wrong. If they annoy me or the others. On the other hand if am late to an online lesson or a practice I will not greet everyone aloud as if nothing had happened. I would be ashamed. I try to think whether I made someone uncomfortable, how my words can be taken. And behave right.

RI: Whose point of view is important for you?
AK: Mine, my parents' and the closest friends - I can talk to them any time. The rest come after.

RI: What about the coaches?
AK: Of course their point of view is very important. But not on everything. If it's about the sport and the practices- they would be the first I'd listen to. If it's about my private life I will take their point of view into an account, but it will not change my mind.

RI: Say, Eteri Georgievna will try to convince you not become a neurosurgeon. Will you not listen to her?
AK: No. Why should I? It's my life and I have to listen to myself first of all. We are what we make ourselves. Becoming a doctor is my dream, this is what I decided. If someone doesn't like it- it's their problem. Even the parents might not change my mind here. If I decided on my journey I will walk it.
Of course if Eteri Georgievna says my technique is wrong and will advice how to do it right I will listen very carefully. Because she is a great specialist who wants me to become better.
There are no discussions on the ice - whatever the coach says goes. But in life the coaches might voice their opinion, but I don't have to follow it. Even if everyone around will be shouting am wrong and will not make it I'll go and prove them all wrong.

RI: What is the most important in life?
AK: I guess the ability to dream. Dreams are great, they inspire.

RI: Who would you want to be in 20 years?
AK: A well known world class neurosurgeon. I would love to be successful in something other than figure skating. To be useful. Save people, save the toughest patiences.

RI: What about a family?
AK: Am not thinking about it yet. My priorities are sport and medicine. Then we'll see what life will go.


Values her privacy
Thanks for the interview @TAHbKA ! :)

What a disappointment if she's truly planning to call it quits after Beijing. :(
By then she will be like Medvedeva and Zagitova, and it would need a very strong motivation to fight with Akatieva, Zhilina, Petrosian and others who will be newly eligible. I am not saying she wouldn’t have a chance, but she would really have to want it very much.


Well-Known Member
She and Trusova and Shcherbakova are really something. You don't come across a group like this every day. They are truly special, collectively and as individuals.
They certainly are. Russia would be so fortunate and blessed if these three incredibly gifted skaters were to be their Olympic team representatives. Anything can happen, of course, but what a treasure trove of talent.

Great interview! Alena is so well-spoken and this comment:
AK: Let's start with me not being a star.
cracked me up! It was perfect. A witty, mature, humble and funny answer ... even if not entirely accurate. 😉

I’ll say this, Alena has the right mindset and determination to be a doctor. She’s one tough cookie! 👍


Rejected by Krasnopolski
She’s such an interesting person, I really like that she considers people of all ages her friends - a lot of girls her age don’t. I also read somewhere that she wants to compete in equestrian too? Maybe she could end up as a summer and winter Olympian...

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