Coughlin's Safe Sport Status Changed to Interim Suspension

[love skating]

Whether it's against TSL/USFS/Brennan, or the skaters writing John tributes, or at the unnamed accuser(s), etc. - bullying and/or death threats are never okay. Sadly it seems to be so pervasive in today's social media.

 

[GullyGirl84]

Agree-I do think that this is the skating community that would be doing the harassing, I don't think the average person would really know about TSL's reporting on this, even if they did maybe hear about the story. I've seen plenty of people on social media claim to have known Coughlin or have kids who have taken lessons from him say very irrational things in terms of how things came to this in the last few days. I'm also afraid that these people are going to actively try to seek out the identities of the accusers, with the amount of people who I've seen claim that the accusers should not get to be anonymous (hello? Do they think these accusations just get dropped in some Secret Santa box and that the investigators do not know who they are? I thought it was 2019. People are sounding entitled and scary).

 

[MK's Winter]

Agree-I do think that this is the skating community that would be doing the harassing, I don't think the average person would really know about TSL's reporting on this, even if they did maybe hear about the story. I've seen plenty of people on social media claim to have known Coughlin or have kids who have taken lessons from him say very irrational things in terms of how things came to this in the last few days. I'm also afraid that these people are going to actively try to seek out the identities of the accusers, with the amount of people who I've seen claim that the accusers should not get to be anonymous (hello? Do they think these accusations just get dropped in some Secret Santa box and that the investigators do not know who they are? I thought it was 2019. People are sounding entitled and scary).

Trust me- he’s getting threats from the skating community. Per Jonathan he had to cancel his trip to Nationals. It’s that serious.

 

[PRlady]

I doubt that most of it is coming from the skating community.

There is SO much crazed behavior left over from the Kavanaugh hearings. Before that, there were the incels and MRAs and Jordan Peterson acolytes, all convinced that men were being victimized by feminist harpies. Without having looked at TSL since this started (because I never do) I am sure that some of that outrage is being channeled because an ‘innocent guy killed himself.’

This is just my read of the larger issues which are ugly enough in themselves.

 

[libecha]

After a huge scandal like the Catholic Church, or Larry Nassar, or Penn State, everybody throws their hands up in the air and exclaims, "How could this happen! Whose fault is this? How did no one do anything to stop this over the last X years? I would never do that!"

This right here. This is how it happens. When you look back 15 years from now to find that your own scandal has become a well-known news meme and a one-liner, this is how it starts.

 

[Scrufflet]

Right now I am thinking about the skaters going to Nationals. I'm sure there are quite a few trying to come to terms with their own abuse at the hands of others, possibly in denial about it, not recognizing it as such or just waking up to it. And quite a few abusers quaking in their boots, wondering if someone will blow the whistle on them. Our culture needs to change!

 

[ballettmaus]

Do you really believe that a straight male in his teens/20's/30's/etc., compartmentalizes instincts and physical reaction by "workplace" vs. "recreational place", when he sees this at the rink, practiced for hours and hours?

https://uploads.poplyft.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/09225301/e90451c120dc47428a5217ab143d486f.jpg
https://cdn.images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/161/photos/796000/936x622/1244796.jpg
http://zasvety.net/uploads/posts/2014-02/1392066769_zasvety-figuristok-4.jpg

He isn't seeing this for hours and hours because he's not a camera. Skaters are moving and photos capture a split second of that movement that the human eye might not catch because it's focused on other things. I'm not a biologist and this is a very simplified version but as far as I know the eye itself sees everything but our brains can't handle it so it acts as a filter and sees only what is relevant. And unless the person in question is a pervert, it would filter out what you're suggesting because it's irrelevant.

 

[VGThuy]

Honestly, this illustrates a pretty skewed perspective from members of the community if there are threats are coming from them. I mean there was so much for them to collectively be up in arms about regarding TSL to take action against Dave Lease for years now, but they chose him reporting on a misconduct allegation that was just a fact as their hill to die on. I guess when a suicide of someone they felt was "wronged" happens, people throw caution to the wind against anybody who they feel contributed to it.

 

[Clutz]

Right now I am thinking about the skaters going to Nationals. I'm sure there are quite a few trying to come to terms with their own abuse at the hands of others, possibly in denial about it, not recognizing it as such or just waking up to it. And quite a few abusers quaking in their boots, wondering if someone will blow the whistle on them. Our culture needs to change!

Do you really think that sexual abuse is so rampant? You make it sound as though no child should ever be left alone with any adult. Hate to tell you this but sexual misconduct against minors is not the norm.

 

[CaliSteve]

So I just went to watch the Christine Brennan interview again on YouTube. Half of TSL’s videos are unavailable. Their Instagram account says “no posts.” Their tweets - and only their tweets - won’t load for me. Not to be melodramatic but it’s a bit odd - are they under attack?

I tweeted Jonathan and he confirmed the death threats.

No matter how you feel about him, nobody deserves death threats and he only reported what was public record.

 

[Joubabe]

This is all pretty horrific. It's the death threats that caused him to pull things down. Great job, skating community.

Please stop with the self-righteous indignation. You were the one who couldn’t wait to reopen this thread when John’s status changed. Then you claimed to have tidbits of gossip about allegations of sexual misconduct in Post #11. John was still alive then.

 

[Scrufflet]

Do you really think that sexual abuse is so rampant? You make it sound as though no child should ever be left alone with any adult. Hate to tell you this but sexual misconduct against minors is not the norm.

There is enough of it out there to be a huge concern. And don't put words in my mouth. I was not referring only to children and did not say a thing about anyone being alone with adults. I would love to say that your experience is true but I have seen an ugly side of our culture based on 25 yrs. experience in social work and it seems to permeate everything. Don't criticize me for feeling some compassion for those who may be having a rough go.

 

[CaliSteve]

There are a lot of people who are neither part of the group nor fans who like to post outrage and death threats. They really have no interest in the specifics of the crisis; they just want to be angry about something and stir things up.

My understanding is that this is pretty common. I will have to see if I can find the source.

I cant imagine these threads came from people outside the skating community.

 

[CaliSteve]

I am far from a fan of TSL. In fact, some here would probably describe me as an anti-fan. I despise Dave Lease, his methods, his creation and perpetuation of a bully culture in skating, his fickle attitude towards the athletes, his need for constant approval from his seemingly equally callous fans, etc. In fact, I swore them off for good after their Starr Andrews commentary and stopped following their social media and realized I was not missing anything by no longer watching/listening to them. But I CANNOT condone any actions of anybody who used threats, intimidation, coercion, etc. to silence TSL for doing nothing but speaking about the issue. Whatever editorializing or gossip they are adding to the reporting of facts, the fact is that if what Jonathan Beyer is saying is true that people within the community have been sending him death threats in the hopes of shutting his channel down, it would have happened even if he all he did was share a screen shot of SafeSport's website and made comments supporting the investigation and taking a stance of being pro-athlete. This is beyond pale, and what is happening to TSL is NOT acceptable. This is insular community mob "violence" being committed for self-preservation and avenging one's own (even though the accusers are also their own). That said, given Jonathan and Dave's flair for the dramatic and history of painting themselves as victims despite their own bad acts of victimizing people, at first I was skeptical of him receiving "death threats" or the severity of the issue. I even rolled my eyes when I saw a tweet from Jonathan talking about "modeling critical thinking" as if that's what TSL was doing. However, I realized my anti-TSL bias was clouding my judgment and even one seriously-worded threat would be enough. Plus, the fact that he is taking everything down is a sign something is going on.

I also wonder if he may also be finding himself subject to a lawsuit and he's hoping to take things down to get rid of evidence that could be used against him.

I dont think there is any lawsuit or even a C and D letter. I think emotions took over alot of people and are targeting folks who felt were responsible for JC death and reputation.

I also think people wanted to keep the suspension under the radar and TSL brought it to light. They feel that this caused all the "social media hysteria", etc.

 

[Willin]

Do you think it's mostly fans then? I am having trouble imagining who else would even pay attention to this outside those who knew Coughlin personally and the likelihood of them being part of the community would be strong.

There are a lot of people who are neither part of the group nor fans who like to post outrage and death threats. They really have no interest in the specifics of the crisis; they just want to be angry about something and stir things up.

My understanding is that this is pretty common. I will have to see if I can find the source.

I think it's a mix of the two. Particularly in the social justice community on tumblr (where the cancelled list originated) and twitter there is this "wokeness" where they latch onto any issue mildly related to their cause and take it to the extreme. Some are misguided people who genuinely care for the cause and just don't handle themselves well and some are trolls that like stoking the outrage.

The other group I would imagine is teenage or young adult figure skating fans. Looking at the people talking about this on Tumblr in the most vitriolic ways it appears they're members of the more insane/toxic/social justice fandoms who are passionately latching onto anything they care about because young adulthood. And trolls often infiltrate these communities and egg them on to do more extreme things and have more extreme reactions.
Knowing a lot of people that went through (or are going through) a similar stage of latching onto social justice vigilanteism, most are ultimately rational people who for whatever reason get sucked into the echochamber that trolls use to manipulate them. I would also like to mention that many of these teen/young adult fans come from some more niche fandom or another and were ripe for social media echochambers because of it (the 10+ I know came from the anime/video game fandom). I see that in a similar way the people in the echochamber on tumblr are all devoted members of at least one fandom or subset of figure skating fandom, and that doesn't surprise me one bit.

 

[MK's Winter]

I dont think there is any lawsuit or even a C and D letter. I think emotions took over alot of people and are targeting folks who felt were responsible for JC death and reputation.

I also think people wanted to keep the suspension under the radar and TSL brought it to light. They feel that this caused all the "social media hysteria", etc.

Under the radar indeed.

 

[skatfan]

That said, given Jonathan and Dave's flair for the dramatic and history of painting themselves as victims despite their own bad acts of victimizing people, at first I was skeptical of him receiving "death threats" or the severity of the issue. I even rolled my eyes when I saw a tweet from Jonathan talking about "modeling critical thinking" as if that's what TSL was doing. However, I realized my anti-TSL bias was clouding my judgment and even one seriously-worded threat would be enough. Plus, the fact that he is taking everything down is a sign something is going on.

I also wonder if he may also be finding himself subject to a lawsuit and he's hoping to take things down to get rid of evidence that could be used against him.

I think this is when Occam's Razor is helpful: what is being said is true.

 

[Clutz]

There is enough of it out there to be a huge concern. And don't put words in my mouth. I was not referring only to children and did not say a thing about anyone being alone with adults. I would love to say that your experience is true but I have seen an ugly side of our culture based on 25 yrs. experience in social work and it seems to permeate everything. Don't criticize me for feeling some compassion for those who may be having a rough go.

Did you even read what I said? No one criticized you. No one put words in your mouth. You were asked a simple question which was followed by a fact.

 

[Willin]

I could believe Dave and Jonathan are being truthful here. They do have a tendency to be very over-dramatic (crying in a bathroom in Grenoble, anyone?), but considering how awful people have been in this case...

 

[CaliSteve]

This is according to Christine Brennan in this Tweet:

https://twitter.com/cbrennansports/status/1086078365327491074

If additional allegations have been made, as Brennan guesses, I'm thinking that The Skating Lesson and Christine Brennan's article probably are the reason.

Note to mods: I understood that any change in his official status would be an ok reason to post a new thread. Hopefully this meets the criteria.

So you think TSL and CB are the reason for the status change?

 

[Prancer]

Do you really think that sexual abuse is so rampant? You make it sound as though no child should ever be left alone with any adult. Hate to tell you this but sexual misconduct against minors is not the norm.

It may not be the norm, but it's pretty common: 1 in 5 girls and 1 in 20 boys is a victim of child sexual abuse

And that's abuse, not misconduct.

 

[skatfan]

Please stop with the self-righteous indignation. You were the one who couldn’t wait to reopen this thread when John’s status changed. Then you claimed to have tidbits of gossip about allegations of sexual misconduct in Post #11. John was still alive then.

I reported on a public tweet with a neutral topic descriptor. If I hadn't started the thread, somebody else would have shortly after (we're on page 32 of this thread). I'm guessing that the SafeSport decision to move him to an interim suspension and what comes with that was a way bigger load for John than someone opening a thread about it on a skating forum.

I said I had heard gossip/rumors and that it wasn't fit to share (because I felt that it was wrong). Others here have noted the same thing. How does that make us culpable?

 

[Prancer]

Please stop with the self-righteous indignation. You were the one who couldn’t wait to reopen this thread when John’s status changed. Then you claimed to have tidbits of gossip about allegations of sexual misconduct in Post #11. John was still alive then.

skatfan did not kill John Coughlin and neither did this thread, so let's just stop that right here.

 

[Tinami Amori]

3. I don't know who you are but given your ongoing obsessional posts about teh sexx and children/teens on this board I wouldn't trust you anywhere a child of mine.

... or let him near me.... and lets keep it that way, on beaches, in parks, restaurants and public transport. thank you in advance.

 

[CaliSteve]

HUH? The issue is not that he died, it is that he was smeared before and publicly flogged without any kind of due process.

How was John smeared? I have never seen any posts that attacked John, in fact I hardly seen any posts on SM until his passing. What do you mean by not having "due process"?

 

[Prancer]

[

How was John smeared? I have never seen any posts that attacked John, in fact I hardly seen any posts on SM until his passing. What do you mean by not having "due process"?

Please don't rehash the due process thing again. AxelAnnie either has no idea what it actually means or intentionally misuses the term and either way this has been discussed at least three times already.

 

[missing]

How was John smeared? I have never seen any posts that attacked John, in fact I hardly seen any posts on SM until his passing. What do you mean by not having "due process"?

I don't know that I would call it smearing, but there's been a very strong presumption of John's guilt, some of which, as best I can tell, is based on a person having experienced sexual assault or harassment and therefore identifying strongly with the people making the accusations.

 

[judiz]

HUH? The issue is not that he died, it is that he was smeared before and publicly flogged without any kind of due process.

In the past three months, two teachers in my area were suspended for inappropriate behavior with underage students. There names and pictures were in the newspaper. No one is complaining they are being flogged or denied their due process.

 

[CaliSteve]

I don't know that I would call it smearing, but there's been a very strong presumption of John's guilt, some of which, as best I can tell, is based on a person having experienced sexual assault or harassment and therefore identifying strongly with the people making the accusations.

But that person tweeted only a few times prior to JC passing. Im sure theres alot of tweets supporting JC.

 

[shuilee]

The TSL Facebook comments section was filled with gossip and malicious innuendo. Although deleted now, there were two example screenshots in the Dailymail article. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...cial-media-rumors-suspension-led-suicide.html

Allegedly, Coughlin's friend tried to defend him on TSL comments section but she was blocked by TSL afterwards. However, TSL did keep everyone's gossip and innuendos posts. That's why there's a claim from Coughlin's friends that TSL is complicit in the spread of those rumors. I suppose it's in the "grey" area whether the owner of TSL has the responsibility to monitor the facebook comments.