Coughlin's Safe Sport Status Changed to Interim Suspension

[Tinami Amori]

All those links are to programs. That's an entirely different context from the workplace or elsewhere.

Do you really believe that a straight male in his teens/20's/30's/etc., compartmentalizes instincts and physical reaction by "workplace" vs. "recreational place", when he sees this at the rink, practiced for hours and hours?

https://uploads.poplyft.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/09225301/e90451c120dc47428a5217ab143d486f.jpg
https://cdn.images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/161/photos/796000/936x622/1244796.jpg
http://zasvety.net/uploads/posts/2014-02/1392066769_zasvety-figuristok-4.jpg

 

[CaliSteve]

They can continue the investigation if they believe there are systemic problems, such as who knew what and when. Christine stated and wrote that. I think that was put out there for a reason.

I missed her comment. What would qualify as "systemic problems"?

 

[kittysk8ts]

Re SafeSport funding and current resources; the last couple of paragraphs.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/01/21/sports/coughlin-figure-skating.amp.html

 

[CaliSteve]

Do their own fundraising? I am assuming they would not be able to give out tax receipts (sorry I don’t know how that works in the US) because they are not a charitable organization. So they would need to hire fundraising staff to raise money for their operating budget? Seriously? Maybe it would be better to put a fee on all sporting event tickets, live streams, cable subscriptions etc that went directly to Safe Sport. After all, we all enjoy watching these athletes, maybe we should be providing funding to make sure they are safe. Ticket outlets, cable providers, live sport operators, NGO’s could all add 10% to the cost of tickets which would in turn help fund Safe Sport.

They can barely raise enough money to pay the rent.

 

[missing]

I found the following in an article about Alysa Liu:

Now a friend helps Liu by picking up the other children after school, feeding them and getting them to sleep. The lawyer requests court appearances around Alysa’s competition and camp schedule although it’s going to get more complicated as the girl becomes eligible for the Junior Grand Prix season next fall. If all goes as expected Alysa will earn two international assignments as well as be eligible for other trips.


Another wrinkle is U.S. Figure Skating’s new guidelines prohibiting minors from being with a coach without at least one more adult present. Liu no longer can let his daughter attend a camp or competition with Lipetsky, who has become a trusted family friend.


“Now it is me or I have to send somebody,” Liu said of trips and private practices.

 

[Tavi]

So I just went to watch the Christine Brennan interview again on YouTube. Half of TSL’s videos are unavailable. Their Instagram account says “no posts.” Their tweets - and only their tweets - won’t load for me. Not to be melodramatic but it’s a bit odd - are they under attack?

 

[leafygreens]

Many people have talked about this, here and elsewhere. But other than that one, unsubstantiated line from Dave, we have no additional information.

He’s went on enough tangents concerning just about every single thing in the sport, especially the USFS, in the past. This isn’t me guessing anything- he’s shown this. He’s whined about skaters’ bodies, their packaging and costumes, their coaches and choreographers, the commentators, other people involved in the sport, and so on.

If he wants to do all of this reporting, which is great, then I question why all of a sudden there’s this wall of ‘I know it but I’m not saying more’, unless someone he’s acquainted with for inside info said something like ‘I bet the judges are furious now’ and he ran with it.

My concern is that his comment didn't just allude to regular rink gossip - if true it would be one of the biggest scandals in figure skating. I assume he didn't give further details to protect the identity of the victim. But answering the question shouldn't be swept under the rug. I'm just not sure how to get someone to look into it.

I personally doubt that SafeSport will take this any further unless they find/have found evidence of systemic issues or mandated people not reporting significant things they knew about or should have known about.

Safe Sport said they wouldn't continue the investigation unless there is evidence of a systemic problem. But unless the investigation is complete, how will we know if they would have found a systemic problem or not? I see value in finishing the job.

That judge should perhaps read this Twitter thread on the issue of due process in this case: https://twitter.com/courtneymilan/status/1087856636239073281

Those are some great points from a legal perspective.

 

[skatfan]

I found the following in an article about Alysa Liu:

Now a friend helps Liu by picking up the other children after school, feeding them and getting them to sleep. The lawyer requests court appearances around Alysa’s competition and camp schedule although it’s going to get more complicated as the girl becomes eligible for the Junior Grand Prix season next fall. If all goes as expected Alysa will earn two international assignments as well as be eligible for other trips.


Another wrinkle is U.S. Figure Skating’s new guidelines prohibiting minors from being with a coach without at least one more adult present. Liu no longer can let his daughter attend a camp or competition with Lipetsky, who has become a trusted family friend.


“Now it is me or I have to send somebody,” Liu said of trips and private practices.

Yes, these are the new rules that have to be followed. It makes it harder for some athletes to attend competitions because of cost or availability of a chaperone, but it is protective for the long haul.

 

[skatfan]

So I just went to watch the Christine Brennan interview again on YouTube. Half of TSL’s videos are unavailable. Their Instagram account says “no posts.” Their tweets - and only their tweets - won’t load for me. Not to be melodramatic but it’s a bit odd - are they under attack?

Their Instagram is down. All tweets seem to be gone. Some YouTube videos also missing. I wonder if they've been hacked.

 

[Stormy]

So I just went to watch the Christine Brennan interview again on YouTube. Half of TSL’s videos are unavailable. Their Instagram account says “no posts.” Their tweets - and only their tweets - won’t load for me. Not to be melodramatic but it’s a bit odd - are they under attack?

I see the same thing. I'd be more inclined to say Dave is pulling everything offline rather then them being hacked or attacked. For whatever stand he took, he probably realizes he's in way over his head.

 

[Willin]

I wonder if they could set up or designate official chaperones? For instance, synchro teams will often have kids whose parents cannot travel stay with other team parents/skaters.

 

[Quadaxel2020]

So I just went to watch the Christine Brennan interview again on YouTube. Half of TSL’s videos are unavailable. Their Instagram account says “no posts.” Their tweets - and only their tweets - won’t load for me. Not to be melodramatic but it’s a bit odd - are they under attack?

It’s not just you, I just posted about this in another thread. The twitter, fb, ig, and half of the videos on YT are gone...

 

[newbatgirl]

Gymcastic interviewed Larry Nassar in 2013 and he was gushed over. That episode is still up as of right now. Obviously, Jessica O’Beirne has backtracked on how she feels about him and that interview since.

Gymcastic has left that episode up in the interest of transparency. They didn't want anyone to accuse them of re-writing history.

 

[mollymgr]

So I just went to watch the Christine Brennan interview again on YouTube. Half of TSL’s videos are unavailable. Their Instagram account says “no posts.” Their tweets - and only their tweets - won’t load for me. Not to be melodramatic but it’s a bit odd - are they under attack?

According to Jonathan Beyer on twitter, Dave has been getting too many violent messages and death threats.

 

[kwanfan1818]

That judge should perhaps read this Twitter thread on the issue of due process in this case: https://twitter.com/courtneymilan/status/1087856636239073281

From the thread,

"If you try and craft a rule that NEVER hurts people in the case of false accusations, you just crafted a rule that ALWAYS hurts people in the case of true accusations. If you care about due process, you want to balance the rights of the accused and the accuser."

Between social pressure, attacks on social media, death threats, the way victims have been treated when they have come forward, the lack of serious investigation by law enforcement, reluctance to prosecute, boiling much down to "he said, she said" where "only" careers have been lost, slut shaming, requirements for "perfect" victims, rape kits thrown away, neanderthal judges caring more about the future of a rich, white rapist who was witnessed raping, etc. etc., when it comes to sexual crimes and misbehavior, the balance is way too far towards protecting the accused, IMO.

There's also a difference when the wrong person has been convicted for a crime that happened, or when a so-called "expert" whose methods have been discredited claims that a crime happened when it didn't, and a wrongful conviction because of a false accusation when a crime didn't happen. Many Innocence Project cases are the former.

 

[judiz]

It’s not just you, I just posted about this in another thread. The twitter, fb, ig, and half of the videos on YT are gone...

Someone posted in the Trash Can forum, Dave took down his social media after getting death threats and nasty comments.

 

[mag]

I wonder if they could set up or designate official chaperones? For instance, synchro teams will often have kids whose parents cannot travel stay with other team parents/skaters.

Team leaders often go when a group of skaters attend a competition. I think it varies from federation to federation how many skaters are required before a team leader is funded. For early season comps in country often arrangements are made between parents to send a couple of skaters with one parent and a coach. Not sure what to think about the private ice time mentioned. I don’t know of any skaters at Lui’s level who have/need private ice.

 

[skatfan]

Someone posted in the Trash Can forum, Dave took down his social media after getting death threats and nasty comments.

This is all pretty horrific. It's the death threats that caused him to pull things down. Great job, skating community.

 

[tony]

Someone posted in the Trash Can forum, Dave took down his social media after getting death threats and nasty comments.

He completely got rid of his blog at one point as well when we were both writing IIRC, but it came back with a new iteration.

Since Jonathan has given the reason behind it, I’d hope Dave has kept the receipts of every single person who has threatened something serious and has authorities look into the matter.

 

[Willin]

Team leaders often go when a group of skaters attend a competition. I think it varies from federation to federation how many skaters are required before a team leader is funded. For early season comps in country often arrangements are made between parents to send a couple of skaters with one parent and a coach. Not sure what to think about the private ice time mentioned. I don’t know of any skaters at Lui’s level who have/need private ice.

I know that Team Leaders go, and one of the team leaders (or maybe an assistant who just travels to the JGPs?) is a 20-something woman who was very well known in US Synchro for a while. I think that if the team leader was a man (which it sometimes is) it wouldn't be appropriate to have them as a chaperone for a young girl, but if there's a young woman USFS staffer who's already travelling to the competitions on official business, why not make her a chaperone or hire an official chaperone?

 

[VGThuy]

I was reading this story of two professors who have been fired from a Connecticut university after an investigation found they had committed acts of sexual misconduct with students. One was placed on leave a year ago during the initial investigation and during that investigation they discovered another professor who committed similar acts. Prior to last year, one of the professors was investigated back in 2013 but allowed to continue to teach as he was "only" being investigated leading to no conclusion. A lot of his behavior continued until another complaint was filed last year and this time they put him on leave as they probed further until they discovered more and more complainants came forward.

This type of story is typical in these cases where those accused of sexual misconduct continue to be able to teach/coach young people and continue their behavior as NOBODY knows they're being investigated and they are still in a position to conduct that behavior. This is why SafeSport is set up the way that it is. People have called for it when the Nassar thing shocked everyone's conscience and people wondered why he was allowed to continue to treat gymnasts; go to competitions; be the physician (and only one) in the camps/MSU; etc. even after there was an initial investigation going into him.

 

[GullyGirl84]

I thought it was an interesting choice for TSL to keep churning out content so quickly after this all happened, it's definitely enough to shake someone up. No one deserves death threats, and deleting all social media content does not seem like a healthy choice, so hopefully Dave's friends are there for him right now. At the same time, I'm not going to be joining the fans begging for him to come back (memories of when Jonathan Beyer threatened to leave and didn't)-I just wasn't a big fan of the show anymore, nothing to do with this, maybe he needs a break and then will decide whether or not he wants to go back online again.

edit: I mean it sincerely and not to be mean-social media has been bringing out the absolute dregs in light of this, so I can only imagine what he's getting. Report, log out, focus on being safe and healthy. This turn of events has only happened in the last few days, and skating is just not that important right now.

 

[Tavi]

I thought it was an interesting choice for TSL to keep churning out content so quickly after this all happened, it's definitely enough to shake someone up. No one deserves death threats, and deleting all social media content does not seem like a healthy choice, so hopefully Dave's friends are there for him right now. At the same time, I'm not going to be joining the fans begging for him to come back (memories of when Jonathan Beyer threatened to leave and didn't)-I just wasn't a big fan of the show anymore, nothing to do with this, maybe he needs a break and then will decide whether or not he wants to go back online again.

I don’t like the idea that people are making threats to silence him.

 

[Lanie]

I don't like Dave or how he handles much of anything, or how he has handled skating in general and gymnastics, but death threats are completely unacceptable. WTF is wrong with people?

 

[bladesofgorey]

Do you really believe that a straight male in his teens/20's/30's/etc., compartmentalizes instincts and physical reaction by "workplace" vs. "recreational place", when he sees this at the rink, practiced for hours and hours?

https://uploads.poplyft.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/09225301/e90451c120dc47428a5217ab143d486f.jpg
https://cdn.images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/161/photos/796000/936x622/1244796.jpg
http://zasvety.net/uploads/posts/2014-02/1392066769_zasvety-figuristok-4.jpg

Couple of things-
1.yes I think it's possible (oh was that rhetorical? Sorrry)
2. if it isn't then we should outlaw all male gynecologists -or for that matter doctors/pediatricians/first responders who might happen to come into contact with unclothed young female (or male!) bodies during the course of their workday.
Bonus:
3. I don't know who you are but given your ongoing obsessional posts about teh sexx and children/teens on this board I wouldn't trust you anywhere a child of mine.

 

[VGThuy]

I am far from a fan of TSL. In fact, some here would probably describe me as an anti-fan. I despise Dave Lease, his methods, his creation and perpetuation of a bully culture in skating, his fickle attitude towards the athletes, his need for constant approval from his seemingly equally callous fans, etc. In fact, I swore them off for good after their Starr Andrews commentary and stopped following their social media and realized I was not missing anything by no longer watching/listening to them. But I CANNOT condone any actions of anybody who used threats, intimidation, coercion, etc. to silence TSL for doing nothing but speaking about the issue. Whatever editorializing or gossip they are adding to the reporting of facts, the fact is that if what Jonathan Beyer is saying is true that people within the community have been sending him death threats in the hopes of shutting his channel down, it would have happened even if he all he did was share a screen shot of SafeSport's website and made comments supporting the investigation and taking a stance of being pro-athlete. This is beyond pale, and what is happening to TSL is NOT acceptable. This is insular community mob "violence" being committed for self-preservation and avenging one's own (even though the accusers are also their own). That said, given Jonathan and Dave's flair for the dramatic and history of painting themselves as victims despite their own bad acts of victimizing people, at first I was skeptical of him receiving "death threats" or the severity of the issue. I even rolled my eyes when I saw a tweet from Jonathan talking about "modeling critical thinking" as if that's what TSL was doing. However, I realized my anti-TSL bias was clouding my judgment and even one seriously-worded threat would be enough. Plus, the fact that he is taking everything down is a sign something is going on.

I also wonder if he may also be finding himself subject to a lawsuit and he's hoping to take things down to get rid of evidence that could be used against him.

 

[Prancer]

This is all pretty horrific. It's the death threats that caused him to pull things down. Great job, skating community.

I doubt that most of it is coming from the skating community.

 

[VGThuy]

I doubt that most of it is coming from the skating community.

Do you think it's mostly fans then? I am having trouble imagining who else would even pay attention to this outside those who knew Coughlin personally and the likelihood of them being part of the community would be strong.

 

[Prancer]

Do you think it's mostly fans then? I am having trouble imagining who else would even pay attention to this outside those who knew Coughlin personally and the likelihood of them being part of the community would be strong.

There are a lot of people who are neither part of the group nor fans who like to post outrage and death threats. They really have no interest in the specifics of the crisis; they just want to be angry about something and stir things up.

My understanding is that this is pretty common. I will have to see if I can find the source.

 

[VGThuy]

There are a lot of people who are neither part of the group nor fans who like to post outrage and death threats. They really have no interest in the specifics of the crisis; they just want to be angry about something and stir things up.

My understanding is that this is pretty common. I will have to see if I can find the source.

That's so interesting. Any link you find would be great.