The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[Dobre]

And Europeans. (4 top-scoring teams there this year, and only 3 spots on that podium).

 

[kittysk8ts]

other than a P&C romp at worlds.

Hahahaha! "Romp" is perfect. Or "Stomp" which is what they will do to the other teams. Hahaha.

 

[suki]

The lack of a U.S. judge on the panel at Worlds may affect the placement of the U.S. teams. With the increased emphasis on GOE vs levels in the scoring, there is more opportunity for political games. H/D could finish anywhere from 2nd to 5th.

I'm sure this was posted, but I missed it. Who is on the judging panel for ID at Worlds? Have the TC and non-judging panel also been assigned, or does that happen closer to the event? Thanks

 

[Icetigger]

I don't see a 29 yr old and a 32 yr old (W/P) making any sort of leap up in quality in comparison to someone like S/B, or even S/K. Especially considering pretty much everything they have in their programmes we have seen before. Beyond that, there's no Canadian or US judge at Worlds. The likelihood of them podiuming is pretty low.

 

[Icetigger]

I'm sure this was posted, but I missed it. Who is on the judging panel for ID at Worlds? Have the TC and non-judging panel also been assigned, or does that happen closer to the event? Thanks

The countries that will have judges have been assigned. Worlds has a heavy bias towards Eastern Europe; and there will be no North American judge (canadian or U.S) in Ice dance.

https://www.isu.org/communications/18289-isu-communication-2204/file

 

[kittysk8ts]

I don't see a 29 yr old and a 32 yr old (W/P) making any sort of leap up in quality in comparison to someone like S/B, or even S/K. Especially considering pretty much everything they have in their programmes we have seen before. Beyond that, there's no Canadian or US judge at Worlds. The likelihood of them podiuming is pretty low.

You may be right. As a fan of them, I shall hope for the best. I can say that I saw their Tango live at the tour, on November 11 and it was exquisite. I tried to watch for the key points but it was dark with show lights. Not sure they will get the rocker kp but apparently that may not matter these days.

 

[starrynight]

If the grand prix series guaranteed success in the second half of the season, Weaver/Poje would be two time world champions, just saying.

I remember after two Grand Prix Final golds thinking that would help them in the second half of the season and it didn't.

So anything can happen - both sides of the coin.

Besides, this is ice dance. Teams don't actually need to change anything they do. The judges just have to decide to judge them differently. And as far as I can tell, that can just be for reasons like 'we need a Russian / European on the podium' or 'oh I'm bored with them now'. So whatever will be...

The dancers don't even need to get the technical levels now with the GOE, so whatever the judges want to do ... well that's that. So who knows.

It only takes judges a couple of events and then an imagined amount of improvement / deterioration is considered to be a fact.

 

[skategal]

Yeah I think it's hard to predict what could happen at Worlds when 3 teams in medal contention (W/P, H/D, S/K) are capable of brilliance and hitting it out of the park when "on" and just as capable of having a brain fart on ice.

 

[yurokis40]

I don't see a 29 yr old and a 32 yr old (W/P) making any sort of leap up in quality in comparison to someone like S/B, or even S/K. Especially considering pretty much everything they have in their programmes we have seen before. Beyond that, there's no Canadian or US judge at Worlds. The likelihood of them podiuming is pretty low.

so what if there is no Canadian judge , does not mean anything, besides there free dance this year is very good.

 

[starrynight]

Lilah Fear and Lewis Gibson are coming for everyone this quad just watch.

They obviously have a lot of self-identity and good independent direction because you can tell the Gadbois teams that don't. You don't get such an awesome and unique FD like that there by sitting around passively waiting for someone to deliver it to you.

 

[MarieM]

Fear&Gibson lack in technical clearness yet. But I enjoy their programs.

 

[mysticchic]

Skate Talk Online talks with Daphne Backman of Ice-Dance.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Vw5jLmxLY

 

[PRlady]

Yeah I think it's hard to predict what could happen at Worlds when 3 teams in medal contention (W/P, H/D, S/K) are capable of brilliance and hitting it out of the park when "on" and just as capable of having a brain fart on ice.

ITA. The Shibs were consistent. V/M and D/W as well. The top three or four teams after P/C are all capable of the dumbest unforced errors so even with a slanted panel it should actually come down to performance.

 

[Dobre]

ITA. The Shibs were consistent. V/M and D/W as well. The top three or four teams after P/C are all capable of the dumbest unforced errors so even with a slanted panel it should actually come down to performance.

I feel like we need a greatest hits montage. If I had the ability, I would have done one a couple seasons ago. (2017 U.S. Nationals, Europeans, 4CCs, and Worlds were all particularly painful, IMO). A few stunningly disastrous moments I would include of this season's contenders:

Hubbell & Donohue at 2017 Worlds and 2017 Nationals.
Weaver & Poje at 2018 Nationals and 2017 IDF.
Chock & Bates at 2018 Olympics and 2017 GPF.
Sinitsina & Katsalapov at 2017 Europeans and 2014 NHK.
Gilles & Poirier at 2016 4CCs and this year's SC.
Guignard & Fabbri at 2017 Europeans (that was a painful one) and this year's Helsinki GP.


I don't know if I would describe all these disasters as "unforced" exactly. Many of them come from teams pushing themselves as hard as they can go. You're trying to break through against the best in the World, what else can you do? Skating tight can muck you up, but man, there's nothing like wiping out when you're going full tilt.

Fear&Gibson lack in technical clearness yet.

And in speed. It's good relative to the teams that have gone up in the RD groups with them on the GP, but it's not close to the teams we've been seeing in the top ten.

 

[cocotaffy]

Ok don't beat me up, I know this isn't a P/C fan thread (maybe if we annoy you enough it might be reopened ) But those Gifs are just worth sharing. They highlight really well the details of their RD, the one at the very bottom is just As @allezfred would say, it brings THE SEX

 

[starrynight]

That's why I'm not making any predictions right now, other than a P&C romp at worlds.

Hahahaha! "Romp" is perfect. Or "Stomp" which is what they will do to the other teams. Hahaha.

Yes we do need that P/C fan thread re-opened I think.

I am looking forward to the the general dance thread going back to normal when that happens.

 

[Icetigger]

Fear/Gibson get the commentary they deserve!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzm0VwkwlAg&feature=youtu.be

 

[alain06fr]

Fear/Gibson get the commentary they deserve!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzm0VwkwlAg&feature=youtu.be

Love it!!!
“The best choreographed slide eveeeeeerrrrrrr”

 

[skatingguy]

I feel like we need a greatest hits montage. If I had the ability, I would have done one a couple seasons ago. (2017 U.S. Nationals, Europeans, 4CCs, and Worlds were all particularly painful, IMO). A few stunningly disastrous moments I would include of this season's contenders:

Hubbell & Donohue at 2017 Worlds and 2017 Nationals.
Weaver & Poje at 2018 Nationals and 2017 IDF.
Chock & Bates at 2018 Olympics and 2017 GPF.
Sinitsina & Katsalapov at 2017 Europeans and 2014 NHK.
Gilles & Poirier at 2016 4CCs and this year's SC.
Guignard & Fabbri at 2017 Europeans (that was a painful one) and this year's Helsinki GP.


I don't know if I would describe all these disasters as "unforced" exactly. Many of them come from teams pushing themselves as hard as they can go. You're trying to break through against the best in the World, what else can you do? Skating tight can muck you up, but man, there's nothing like wiping out when you're going full tilt.

Add
Hubbell/Donohue 2018 Olympics
Chock/Bates 2017 Worlds, 2014 GPF
Pechalat/Bourzat 2011 Worlds

 

[alain06fr]

The lack of a U.S. judge on the panel at Worlds may affect the placement of the U.S. teams.

The US fed has been fair and respectful in the past seasons so I don’t expect US couples to be penalized at Worlds by the lack of US judge.

With the increased emphasis on GOE vs levels in the scoring, there is more opportunity for political games. H/D could finish anywhere from 2nd to 5th.

Well... More or less emphasis on GOE won’t change anything imHo as political games can take advantage of any situation as we already saw.

As for H/D, both are very talented skaters and they are known for being reliable with key elements such as step sequences. Now I think that choreographies of their rd and fd need to be seriously and deeply reworked.

 

[Dobre]

Pechalat/Bourzat 2011 Worlds

Oh, if we started including teams that are not currently competing, we would open up a whole new can of worms.
#2006 Torino
#2002 Vancouver
#1994 Worlds
#I-have-a-lot-more-moments-to-add-from-2016-17. It-really-was-a-stellar-season-for-mistakes.
#P&C-are-not-immune
#Nor-are-V&M-and-D&W
#Nikita-and-Ilynikh-are-a-veritable-gold-mine

 

[Ka3sha]

Oh, if we started including teams that are not currently competing, we would open up a whole new can of worms.

#Nikita-and-Ilynikh-are-a-veritable-gold-mine

If new judging system existed in 2014, they most likely would have got that gold in Saitama even after that twizzle disaster in the SD. And it says a lot about new judging system

 

[Dobre]

I don't know. Teams are taking a hit when the mistakes are obvious enough to bring in the negative GOE. Fisher & Malette-Paquette are sitting in 9th place at Skate Canada Challenge at the moment after he fell yesterday. Though he didn't even lose a level on their questionable twizzles, which I'm finding . F&M-P'll probably spring right up the ranks during the FD, but you can still take a real hit in the standings if the error is obvious to the average viewer.

 

[skatingguy]

If new judging system existed in 2014, they most likely would have got that gold in Saitama even after that twizzle disaster in the SD. And it says a lot about new judging system

The changes to the way the twizzles are judged alone would have done it for them, let alone the GOE changes. I don't think the Ice Dance technical committee made the right decisions on the application of the -5/+5 GOE, and I wonder if they'll make some changes in the off season.

 

[Icetigger]

so what if there is no Canadian judge , does not mean anything

Considering Leanna Caron, as Head of Skate Canada, was the only skating Federation head to turn up to the judges draw (to be fair, I think she lives in Geneva), it probably does mean something

 

[muffinplus]

What is everyone's favorite standout lift/spin/ other element from this year's programs?

Lifts

P/C's curve lift, which is beautiful and fits the music so well. The RD curve lift is sexy, because of Gaby, but boring at the same time... I am still confused how this gets a level 4.? ( if the answer is it satisfies all the level 4 requirements, to me that's still confusing)
H/D curve lift in RD - Madison's extension is amazing in a crazy low position

G/P lifts in FD are not the usual, but I find that the positions are not at all aesthetically pleasing, and the ending lift, which everyone seems to love is especially awkward looking to me

I think the Finnish team had cool lifts but I'll have to rewatch


Choreo slide move

Fear and Gibson obviously win this, then Gilles and Poirier and Hawayek and Baker

Twizzles hmmm- Stepanova/Bukin sit twizzles.not really sure?

Choreo step sequence - Hubbell and Donohue to me, she sells it so well
Step sequence - Sin/Kats RD.. love it

 

[thvu]

P/C's curve lift, which is beautiful and fits the music so well. The RD curve lift is sexy, because of Gaby, but boring at the same time... I am still confused how this gets a level 4.? ( if the answer is it satisfies all the level 4 requirements, to me that's still confusing)

The requirements for level 4 are:

4 Features out of 6 (at least one partner must be in a difficult Pose/Position):

1. Lifted partner sustains a Difficult Pose for at least 3 sec OR Lifted partner moves through a Change of Pose​

2. Lifting partner sustains a Difficult Position for at least 3 sec​

3. Entry feature lifted partner​

4. Exit feature lifted partner​

5. Entry feature lifting partner​

6. Exit feature lifting partner​

P&C's curve lift in the RD hits 2, 3, 4, & 6.

2 - Cizeron is in a crouch with both thighs at least parallel to the ice (or lower).​

3 - Papadakis goes through a difficult transition (being flipped, resting on Cizeron's shoulder) before finally hitting her pose.​

4 - Upon the exit, Papadakis does a 2.5 twizzle.​

6 - Upon the exit, Cizeron does a 2.5 twizzle.​

 

[clairecloutier]

Interesting blog post from American/Swedish ice dancer TJ Carey: https://dutchtogolden.blogspot.com/2018/11/a-new-era-of-ice-dancing-what-this.html

TJ discusses the changes in ice dance elements and scoring this season and how it has affected the discipline of ice dance. He generally supports most of the changes, as he feels they promote greater creativity.

As an aside, I talked with young Canadian ice dancers Sales/Wamsteeker about some of the element changes in dance this season at Skate Canada. They also expressed general support for the changes, in particular the elimination of the second step sequence in FDs and the introduction of new choreographic elements. Their opinion was the same as TJ's--that the changes allow more freedom and creativity.

 

[muffinplus]

The requirements for level 4 are:

4 Features out of 6 (at least one partner must be in a difficult Pose/Position):

1. Lifted partner sustains a Difficult Pose for at least 3 sec OR Lifted partner moves through a Change of Pose​

2. Lifting partner sustains a Difficult Position for at least 3 sec​

3. Entry feature lifted partner​

4. Exit feature lifted partner​

5. Entry feature lifting partner​

6. Exit feature lifting partner​

P&C's curve lift in the RD hits 2, 3, 4, & 6.

2 - Cizeron is in a crouch with both thighs at least parallel to the ice (or lower).​

3 - Papadakis goes through a difficult transition (being flipped, resting on Cizeron's shoulder) before finally hitting her pose.​

4 - Upon the exit, Papadakis does a 2.5 twizzle.​

6 - Upon the exit, Cizeron does a 2.5 twizzle.​

Thanks for the explanation but what is a "difficult" position. I cannot define difficult, but watching number 2) ( the entry) it's clearly not as difficult "looking" as something like Davis/White entry into the curve lift in the Scherezade FD.

Also it seems like change of position isn't considered as a feature (was it ever) ..

And the twizzles follow the exit, they aren't upon exit. This is considered to add difficulty to the lift itself?

 

[Colonel Green]

Twizzles hmmm- Stepanova/Bukin sit twizzles.not really sure?

Fear/Gibson's first set of twizzles are probably my favourites. Honestly, almost every element in that program is a standout in its particular category (that rotational lift that serves as a transition between "Bad Girls" and "September" is another great one).

Speaking of them, it was a great weekend for the Fear sisters at the British championships. Lilah and Lewis were somewhat held up in the rhythm dance, where Lilah splatted on a twizzle but still ended up only two points behind, but the judges needn't have bothered, since they won the free dance by fifteen points, and thirteen points overall.

Though this pales in comparison to Sasha and her partner George Waddell's 44-point margin to take the national junior title.