UPDATED: OMFG . . . Adam Rippon, Tonya Harding and Mirai Nagasu are on the DWTS' all-athlete cast

Inessence said:
None.
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Exactly. So why is it that we are repeatedly presented with this list of Nancy's supposed sins, which apparently includes being gifted by the judges, in contrast to Tonya's involvement in the whack?

Though Tonya gets slagged around here for much more than just the Whack. Why should Nancy or any others be immune?
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Nancy isn't immune to slagging at all; it's the persistent slagging of Nancy in defense of Tonya Harding that is disturbing. Nancy did not bring the attack on herself, regardless of her behavior, yet that is the clear implication of such posts--that Nancy somehow deserved it.
 
barbarafan said:
Tonya gets slagged because she cheated in her sport. If she had used performance enhancing drugs it would be the same thing. She would have been thrown out of the sport forever and lost anything she had won.She is further slagged as she acts arrogant on the show and tries to act like a victim as specified by DWTS to get ratings. They put athletes in the same sport on the show to build up the friction routine. When you go on a show like DWTS you can (depending on their storyline)lose all dignity. She will get her money but she will always be hated.
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By you, obviously. Fortunately you don't have power over other people's minds, so don't speak for anybody else.

By the way, performance enhancing drugs get athletes banned for months and years, not for life.
 
Per said:
By you, obviously. Fortunately you don't have power over other people's minds, so don't speak for anybody else.

By the way, performance enhancing drugs get athletes banned for months and years, not for life.
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REally.....I did not say everyone hates her....just that she is hated...Even those (many, many, many)who had forgotten her now think of the horrible thing she did and strongly dislike her again. Even boasting that was the best skater in the world and it was taken away from her is an incitement . She did it to herself. She was not a little kid...she was a married woman. Maybe a poll is in order.
 
Athletes that have used peds have been invited to DTWS. Lance Armstrong has been asked many times and said no. A lot of people don't agree with Rose's lifetime ban either although he did bet on the games of the Reds when he was manager of the Reds which is an ethical violation. As a player, Rose had a hall of fame career and would of been inducted if not for the gambling issue. I live in Ohio, and there is actually a street in Cincy named Pete Rose Way. I haven't been to Cincy in a while because I live 3 hours away from it. Most of the people that I know that disagree with Rose's lifetime ban are Reds fans. I haven't heard anything about Marilyn Jones (the track star) that got caugt doping.

I am Tribe fan, Browns fans (I might actually watch Hard Knocks this year), don't really follow the Cavs but was thrilled when they won their championship, and I have also attended mud hens games and ice skating shows in Toledo (closest big city about an hour away). My brother is a Tigers and Lions fan and I have been to lions game in the old silverdome, and several baseball games (he tries to get tickets for when Indians/Tigers play each other). I saw the Rockettes in Detroit at Fox Theatre-there was supposed to be ice skating in the 2nd half but for some reason the skating number got chacked even though they did set up the ice rink. It was an excellent show.
 
Tonya was the best skater in the world in 91 when she won nationals for the first time, silver at worlds, and won Skate America. She had defeated both Kristi and Midori in competition that year. She actually was a better skater than Nancy but Nancy had the "look" that the us judges wanted. Tonya thought all she had to do was skate without playing politics. Nancy (or more accurately her coaches) played the political games and started dressing her in donated Vera Wang dresses, attempted to get her teeth fixed (they actually looked better before the work), and played the "ice princess" role to the hilt. In the 90's, that mattered more than being one of the only women in the world that could land the 3axel (the most difficult jump a female had landed at that time ).

Nancy might not of had Kennedy money, but she looked like one. She hid her real personality, and when the "real" persona finally emerged there was a lot of backlash. She lost most of her endorsements, Mattel turned the planned vinyl Nancy doll into Barbie's friend Skating Midge, and cancelled the movie project they were going to do about her life after she dissed Mickey.

The media used the same info regarding Tonya in a more positive light in 1992- remember the "all-American tomboy" profile. In 94, they used it to infer that she was an interloper that shouldn't of been partipating in a rich girls sport because she was poor and didn't fit in. They used her ability to fix her own car as a negative ( I wish I had that skill), hounded her relentlessly, sent up media cameras at all of her training sessions between nationals and Olympics and then tried to claim she never trained (and the general public was dumb enough to believe it). Her awesome speed and power was portrayed as "skating like a Mack truck" and she was not a mack truck. When anyone would point out the height of her jumps, her ability to do harder jumps than the other girls, and her fast spins , the media would say she wasn't artistic enough when in reality her artistry and presentation was actually better than Nancy's.

Tonya was better than Nancy at interpreting music. Tonya also had better flow in and out of her jumps and spins as well. Footwork didn't get the emphasis back then it does now but Tonya had some nice moves (the ina bauer into double or triple flip), and she could do some dance moves. Nancy had a longer line but that was due mostly to body type, and the fact Nancy was taller (no amount of training would of changed that). Nancy's skating was slow and choppy. Tonya's overall skating skills were also better than Nancy's as well. Tonya did what was required for spirals at the time, and I consider that the least important element (Bobek's was awesome though). I loved the pro program Kristi did where she took out the stop watch and timed the spiral sequence.
 
cmk said:
Whole Post.
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Prancer said it best; you just keep consistently slagging on Nancy in your defense of Tonya. Based on what you are saying, Nancy never should have even made it Nationals, she was such a horrible skater, she deserved none of her success. And you more than imply that Nancy brought on the attack herself, by being such a bad skater and nasty beeyotch who was handed medals like candy, so someone was likely justified in taking her out to level the playing field.

Funny, though, how you never notice that Tonya was often out-of-shape (remember Nancy's coach's uncalled for but honestly true statement of how he could gauge how well Tonya would do in a competition by looking at her weight at any given time?). In addition, she smoked, she didn't practice steadily, didn't listen to her coaches, didn't listen to judges' feedback. But according to you she was always the best because she landed a difficult jump a total of SIX times but then never successfully landed the jump in competition again after that. But of course, EVERYTHING Tonya did was better than Nancy and everyone else and she didn't succeed only because the judges hated her and she didn't have the right style.

The crazy thing for me is that I could almost have been willing to finally cut Tonya a break since it has been almost 24 years and Nancy had long moved on. Until the moment that she shot her mouth off in that ABC interview and suddenly owned up to knowing that at least "something was up" with the goons who went after Nancy before the attack occurred. And I don't really care to what degree she knew or actually what she knew; the simple fact is that she let us know she'd been LYING her ass off for almost 24 years. I understand and sympathize with her rough life growing up and the abuse she suffered, but I will be damned before I agree that she deserves redemption and to be held up like a poor innocent victim. Especially when the real victim of the attack just keeps being dismissed as inconsequential or a whiner who deserved it by Tonya apologists like you. And it especially sad, because the media is likely just playing Tonya for all they can get out of her until the story gets stale again and they throw her back into obscurity while they move onto the next juicy and scandalous story or better redemption narrative. While she grabs onto the delusion that the whole country has fallen in love with her and that she will get the fame and fortune that comes with that fairy tale.
 
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And one inaccuracy: Nancy did fine with endorsements. You are correct that Mattel decided not to make her doll; but the mold was turned into the Esmeralda Disney doll. How do I know this? A friend of mine who was a serious Barbie collector made me a "Nancy Kerrigan" doll using the Esmeralda doll and she made and hand-beaded a dress for it.
 
Prancer said:
Exactly. So why is it that we are repeatedly presented with this list of Nancy's supposed sins, which apparently includes being gifted by the judges, in contrast to Tonya's involvement in the whack?



Nancy isn't immune to slagging at all; it's the persistent slagging of Nancy in defense of Tonya Harding that is disturbing. Nancy did not bring the attack on herself, regardless of her behavior, yet that is the clear implication of such posts--that Nancy somehow deserved it.
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I disagree. I think it has to do with the supposed halo-effect Nancy has opposed to the demonization of Tonya. Pitting the two women against each other for sport. First perpetuated by the media in ‘94, that still continues today. (Ex. Team Nancy slags Tonya, comparing her to OJ or Hitler (seriously). Team Tonya slags Nancy back, calling her a home wrecker and a lousy skater.) All that says is “Team Nancy, your girl ain’t so hot either.” Not “she deserved the Whack!” At least, not most of the time. If anyone excuses Nancy being assaulted by undercutting her, “well, she was such a bitch anyway”, then they have bigger problems than taking sides in an imaginary cat fight.
 
barbarafan said:
REally.....I did not say everyone hates her....just that she is hated...Even those (many, many, many)who had forgotten her now think of the horrible thing she did and strongly dislike her again. Even boasting that was the best skater in the world and it was taken away from her is an incitement . She did it to herself. She was not a little kid...she was a married woman. Maybe a poll is in order.
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Actually, she was a divorced woman at the time.

I thought she had made this up years later, but this is actually part of her story that remained the same over the years:
She only got back together with Jeff after their divorce for appearances' sake. He even said so himself in one of his paid interviews. What I don't understand is why they continued with that sham after he found out. What a sick and twisted relationship they had.

I am more willing than some others to forgive Tonya because 1) I liked her before 1994 2) It happened 24 years ago and 3) I see her more as a troubled person with obvious psychological issues than as a purely evil woman. I hope that she can finally get past it all for her own sake and for the sake of her kid. In a way, it's very sad that she might be following her own abusers' example by denying any involvement in the attack against Nancy Kerrigan - similar to how Tonya's mom still denies ever being abusive despite the many eyewitness accounts that suggest otherwise.

I also like Nancy and always have. So it's not impossible to like both.
 
She has paid a much higher price for a lesser crime than many male athletes. Ray Lewis (football player) was able to plead a murder charge down to obstruction of justice and was able to continue his very successful nfl career. Ray Rice is unofficially banned because of the domestic violence vs his wife. It should be noted that the Ravens didn't release him until after the video of him knocking her out and draggin her on the floor came out. I don't know what happened with Manziel's domestic violence charge against his ex but he is trying to find a team that will give him a chance. Johnny was a spoiled rich kid (dad had oil money) who blew it after the Browns handed him the starting job ( there are many young qbs that would of loved the chance to start for an nfl team). He didn't realize what he had lost until it was gone.
Mike Tyson literally bit some of Evander's ear off and was allowed to box again.

I do hope Manziel has grown up. I don't want him back on the Browns. I am not sure what to expect from Baker Mayfield.

There are less female athletes getting in troubled although Marilyn Jones used peds, Capriati (sp) smoked pot, and Olga Korbut got caught shoplifting once (and ended up on Celebrity Boxing vs Darva (I want to marry a millionaire). Darva was much taller, much younger, and in much better shape so she ended up winning the boxing match.

I do not think Nancy deserved to be whacked. I wanted her to compete in 94 so when Tonya won people wouldn't question it. Tonya did not need to do the 3axel at Nationals to beat Nancy. (Kristi would of been a different story). I just didn't like Tonya portrayed as the evil stepmother and Nancy as snow white when Nancy had just as many flaws as Tonya. Nancy's team just covered them up better. I don't like Nancy because she always came across as fake (partly because she was playing the "ice princess" and it just wasn't her). I also wanted to see what the Usfsa would have done if Tonya had won, and Michelle or Nicole (preferably both) managed to place ahead of Nancy at 94 nats as well. Would they have gone by the standings or would they have looked for a loophole to send Nancy?
 
There's a really big difference between not liking Nancy and insinuating that she only achieved what she did because of questionable judging.

Nancy spent several years as a junior and senior stuck in the middle of the pack, and some years never getting out of Regionals or Sectionals, because her figures were so bad (which she herself admitted). It wasn't until figures were reduced in value and then eliminated that she became a serious contender. So if USFS was so determined to fix results in her favor, and to hold Tonya down, as you are claiming, why didn't they do it sooner?? (Especially when figures judging was so notoriously subjective.)
 
Tonya was better at figures than Kristi or Nancy. I'm not sure how good Tonia K was a figures but suspect she might of been a little bit better than Nancy at them. If figures had been eliminated sooner ( pre-88), Tonya possibly could of made the 88 Olympic team. If they didn't eliminate figures, Holly Cook likely would of gone to 91 worlds instead of Nancy since figures were Cook's strongest area. If figures were still in effect in 92, Kristi and Tonya would of been the top 2, the injured Trenary might of asked for and received a bye, or someone other than Nancy ends up 3rd because of the figure portion whether its Cook (if she competed) or Tonia K ( I think she was 4th in 91 and 5th in 92).
 
Yazmeen said:
The crazy thing for me is that I could almost have been willing to finally cut Tonya a break since it has been almost 24 years and Nancy had long moved on. Until the moment that she shot her mouth off in that ABC interview and suddenly owned up to knowing that at least "something was up" with the goons who went after Nancy before the attack occurred. And I don't really care to what degree she knew or actually what she knew; the simple fact is that she let us know she'd been LYING her ass off for almost 24 years. I understand and sympathize with her rough life growing up and the abuse she suffered, but I will be damned before I agree that she deserves redemption and to be held up like a poor innocent victim.
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Yes. Exactly.

cmk said:
She has paid a much higher price for a lesser crime than many male athletes.
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This is why I want to be able to let it go and just enjoy her "comeback," and also because, confession here, I always thought she was a much better skater than Nancy, when she was on top of her game. But then, at the DWTS premiere, Tonya starts whining, yet again, about how skating was "taken away from her," i.e., through no fault of her own, and I just... can't. She has no real self-awareness, and I find that exasperating.
 
cmk said:
Tonya was better at figures than Kristi or Nancy.
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Yes, that is part of what my original post said. But the rest of your blah blah blah didn't answer the question in my post. Again, if USFS was so determined to push Nancy and to hold Tonya down, and to fix the results to make that happen, then why was Nancy stuck in the mid-ranks for several years? When figures were being competed it was very easy to judge them subjectively and to push whichever skater was favoured.
 
overedge said:
Yes, that is part of what my original post said. But the rest of your blah blah blah didn't answer the question in my post. Again, if USFS was so determined to push Nancy and to hold Tonya down, and to fix the results to make that happen, then why was Nancy stuck in the mid-ranks for several years? When figures were being competed it was very easy to judge them subjectively and to push whichever skater was favoured.
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Because USFSA had Fassi's student, Trenary, so who needed Nancy.

I don't know if she did it to herself or if it dumb luck that she got sick, but the worst thing Tonya did to herself was not win 1990 Nationals, a competition with figures, although she was favored to win after 1989 Skate America.

-------------------------------------------------

Tonya Harding USA - 1989 Skate America SP . . . The technical content is good, but the presentation is so "unfortunate"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVUiAAY-yOo

Tonya Harding USA - 1989 Skate America LP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ_Hu9Li7SA
 
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bardtoob said:
Because USFSA had Fassi's student, Trenary, so who needed Nancy.

I don't know if she did it to herself or if it dumb luck that she got sick, but the worst thing Tonya did to herself was not win 1990 Nationals, a competition with figures, although she was favored to win after 1989 Skate America.

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Tonya Harding USA - 1989 Skate America SP . . . The technical content is good, but the presentation is so "unfortunate"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVUiAAY-yOo

Tonya Harding USA - 1989 Skate America LP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ_Hu9Li7SA
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I think it had something to do with the high altitude and a common cold leading to pneumonia.
 
IIRC, she had pneumonia at 1990 nationals and skated the LP against doctors' orders. She managed a clean skate in the SP but that was also a very lethargic performance for her.

The 1989 Skate America is a weird competition. Her performance of that same SP at 1989 nationals was so much better! OMG - the speed on those spins! She did the warmup for the LP at Skate America in a black costume that seemed to be bothering her. She then changed and did her long program in that old blue costume and won the competition. LOL

In addition to her own stupid mistakes, Tonya did have some moments of genuine bad luck at us nationals in her career: getting dumped by the judges on the artistic mark and losing a close call against a young Yamaguchi in 1989, pneumonia in 1990, injuring her ankle during practice in 1992, sick and lethargic again in 1993.

I think she really lost it during that 1993-1994 season, and that's why her ex came up with those weird schemes. He was actually trying to help her out in an odd way. I remember watching that fluff piece from the 93 Skate America thinking that something was wrong with her. She looks positively insane in those clips.
 
Tonya was the us national bronze medalist in 89. I think the official rule was that you had to be a world medalist to get a bye in case of injury or illness. Since Tonya wasn't on the 89 world team (the us had 3 spots, but the 3rd skater would of had to been Debi Thomas due to the named skater rule). Debi had already turned pro/went off to med school so the spot was simply forfeited.
 
Tonya did not look insane at 93 Skate America. She might of been a bit defensive because people were calling her a has been and some of those people were spreading retirement rumors. Tonya never said she was going to retire, but I think that was the usfsa's wish. Evy was also making mean-spirited comments about Tonya's weight when he easily outweighed her by at least 200 pounds. Evy had an obsession with the weights of female skaters - his own, and even ones he never coached.
 
Well, I say this as a fan of her skating. I definitely don't think she looked ok in those fluff pieces. Her entire demeanor was just so different than how she usually looked and acted. I remember being concerned at the time because she just didn't look well to me. :(
 
Inessence said:
I disagree. I think it has to do with the supposed halo-effect Nancy has opposed to the demonization of Tonya.
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Who did that? Where?

If you are posting in response to comments made here, I think it is reasonable to post in response to things that are actually said here.

Who is Team Tonya? Who is Team Nancy? And what does any of it have to do with anything?

Inessence said:
All that says is “Team Nancy, your girl ain’t so hot either.”
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To what end? What purpose (other than being a logical fallacy) does this serve?
 
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