Trifun. Trifun Živanović. As easy to remember as it is to spell.
Lol! I knew that. Mental lapse. I totally remember his skating apparently not his name.
Trifun. Trifun Živanović. As easy to remember as it is to spell.
I would still tend to agree with jenniferlyon that most skaters tend to come from the upper middle class. If not, their families would have to at least be comfortable. For example, the Kwan's mortgaged their home to help pay for Michelle's skating. To do that, they had to own a home to begin with, and not be renters. They also owned a restaurant IIRC. That may not be upper middle class but it's a long ways away from poor.
I would think that poor skaters like Tonya are few and far between.
What is upper middle class anyway, in terms of dollars?
The modest estimate that comes to mind for an elite skater is $50,000 a year. To put that in perspective, Patrick Chan once said his skating cost him $200,000 a year - granted, that figure probably included his mortgages.
So for parents to afford $50,000 per year and still support a family and at least a middle class lifestyle, which I'll guess would take $100,000 per year, they would probably need to be earning at least $150,000 per year - not a whole lot really for two working professional parents.
Depth isn't necessary to have a champion. There was no depth in Korea but Yuna Kim has gold and silver Olympic medals. It only takes one. Too much intra-country competition will cause some skaters to drop out. If they can't beat the competition while skating for Russia, they won't be able to do it skating for another country.
Only if the skater's original country is willing to let them go. The new country can have tough requirements too. And the ISU has its own rules. So, maybe, maybe not.Is the process for switching countries easy?
Only if the skater's original country is willing to let them go. The new country can have tough requirements too. And the ISU has its own rules. So, maybe, maybe not.
Brody Tannell.Trifun and Sydne. Sydne and Trifun. Sydne Sydne Sydne. Trifun Trifun Trifun. Fingers crossed for next time
This is so varies based on where you live.
Those figures don't work in California for example. There was a recent article about what it took to "get by" in the Bay Area (where Karen Chen & Vincent Zhou started) for a family of four. I'd say that "gets by" translates to working class. The answer was around $80,000 btw. Crazy! $150,000 here is lower middle class. Upper middle class is more like $250,000 here. I believe COL is slightly cheaper in LA (where many elite skaters train) but not by much.
Psst. Fontana spells her first name Silvia (mine is the better way).Psst. It's spelled Sydne. (Hey, I'm just the messenger on this one!)
Sylvia was born in NJ but raised in Italy. Her wikipedia page says she started representing Italy in the 93-1994 season which kind of implies she skated for the US before that but that may only mean she skated in local comps.
Times have changed along with female aspirations. Parents now steer their athletically gifted children into sports that have the potential for college scholarship money. Only the dedicated 1% who can afford it stay in skating post middle school.
It's similar in Boston. $150,000 is not a huge income around here for a family of four. $250,000 would be a much more comfortable income, given housing costs, cost of living, etc., but of course many people do not make that.
The other thing is, yeah, you can't forget about taxes. To think a family living on $150K can afford to put $50K toward skating isn't realistic. You lose about a third of that income to taxes and/or deducted payments toward employer-provided health insurance, etc., right off the bat.
DC is similar cost wise to Boston.
Housing here is a huge cost. When a family purchased their home plays a huge factor in a family's finances.
They have gotten worse though. And other then Yuna South Korean ladies haven't done anything since she retired.US Ladies haven't got any worse.
It's just that Russian, Japanese, and South Korean ladies have not only got better, they have a larger talent pool to choose from these days, too.
They have gotten worse though. And other then Yuna South Korean ladies haven't done anything since she retired.
When Zagitova was 12 1/2 in January when 2015 she only had a 3S, 3T, and an unstable 3Lo she never got positive GOE on... she moved to Eteri and broke her arm/leg in Spring 2015... so she probably finished learning the 3Lz and 3F in Summer 2015 when she was turning 13. She spent the whole season 2015-16 working on 2A+3Lo and then 3Lz+3Lo she always fell or under-rotated until she did a clean 3Lz+3Lo in a May 2016 competition when she was a month from turning 14. Yuna Aoki won't be widely remembered, but I think it was her 3Lz+3Lo that was the impetus for Zagitova to go for for that combo.
Evgenia had all her triples when she was 11.
Kaetlyn Osmond was 14 coming close to turning 15 when in the JGP the only consistent triple she had was a 3T though she would also attempt 3S in competition. When she was 16 at Junior worlds she completely left out the 3Lo and it seems the 3Lz wasn't consistent but she had the rest of the triples except axel and was doing 3T+3T. I may be wrong, but it seems like she doesn't start doing the 3Lo in competition until the 2015-16 season when she was turning 20.
If they lived in Europe, I could maybe understand this... but if they live in America then this is kind of nuts. So much of Eteri's success comes from that she's in a position to select her students. They're better off taking their child to those coaches able to podium on US junior nationals.
Those figures don't work in California for example. There was a recent article about what it took to "get by" in the Bay Area (where Karen Chen & Vincent Zhou started) for a family of four. I'd say that "gets by" translates to working class. The answer was around $80,000 btw. Crazy! $150,000 here is lower middle class. Upper middle class is more like $250,000 here. I believe COL is slightly cheaper in LA (where many elite skaters train) but not by much.
But in other parts of the country, $150,000 sound about right for upper-middle-class.
However, you are talking about spending 1/3 of what you earn on skating. You say this is "not a whole lot really" but I think that's a crazy amount of money to be spending on one child's extracurricular activities. When you add in what it costs for a child to feed and clothe them and send them to school, one kid could be spending almost half the family's income!
Skaters with a lot of potential get sponsors. The initial outlay is a lot for families but once a skater establishes herself, she gets some financial support, at least.
Yes, but many skaters who do have a lot of potential but not a lot of money have to quit or scale back their training and expectations long before "establishing herself."
If, e.g., there were money available to fund training for every skater who landing clean 2A at age 12 or younger, the pool at higher levels would remain as deep as it is in juvenile and intermediate. But that's just not how the sport is structured in the US and the money isn't there.
Yes, but many skaters who do have a lot of potential but not a lot of money have to quit or scale back their training and expectations long before "establishing herself."
If, e.g., there were money available to fund training for every skater who landing clean 2A at age 12 or younger, the pool at higher levels would remain as deep as it is in juvenile and intermediate. But that's just not how the sport is structured in the US and the money isn't there.
This is so varies based on where you live.
Those figures don't work in California for example. There was a recent article about what it took to "get by" in the Bay Area (where Karen Chen & Vincent Zhou started) for a family of four. I'd say that "gets by" translates to working class. The answer was around $80,000 btw. Crazy! $150,000 here is lower middle class. Upper middle class is more like $250,000 here. I believe COL is slightly cheaper in LA (where many elite skaters train) but not by much.
But in other parts of the country, $150,000 sound about right for upper-middle-class.
However, you are talking about spending 1/3 of what you earn on skating. You say this is "not a whole lot really" but I think that's a crazy amount of money to be spending on one child's extracurricular activities. When you add in what it costs for a child to feed and clothe them and send them to school, one kid could be spending almost half the family's income!
I'm kind of wondering what Jeremy Abbot had when he was a novice that he [and his parents] elected for him to continue spending money on training. His former coach Tom Z said that it took a really long time for Jeremy to get a double axel. Granted girls mature earlier than men but even the guys get jumps at an early age. So if he hung it up, he would have never become a national champion. This is just a random musing about some of the posts that said that people find out quickly whether they have talent or not and that a coach shouldn't encourage a kid to continue [paraphrasing]. He spent a lot of time being "tired, cold, hungry and in pain in a dark rink" before he saw any real success as a junior/senior competitor.
You'd rather have 1 OGM, 1 National gold and 1 World gold over 1 OBM & 1 OSM, 9 National golds and 5 World golds?
To each their own...
US doesn't need a large figure skating program for the program to produce world class skaters. You only need to produce three good skaters at the world championship level, 3 at the junior world level. For that you need great coaching from a young age.
Now, if you want this to be a popular sport, that's different.
In an Ice Network interview, Raf said he does not get the younger skaters because he doesn't say "good job" to everything. You get a "good job" when you have actually done so (per Chen) and it isn't every day. The culture in the US is "make everyone equal in everything." Sports is not equal. There are winners and losers. It is about pushing and working really hard and taking all the advantages or opportunities that are open to you to do the best you can. It is about learning how to lose and using that for motivation. Everyone doesn't get a medal (or ribbon, or win). Children need to learn that, to truly become competitive. Rather than being falsely told that everything they do is wonderful. Say it when it is true, and motivate them to work on the rest.
You can't be really good at something unless you have put in the work that it takes to get there, and start very early in life.
When I said "not a whole lot really" I was thinking in terms of $50,000 per year for skating out of a household income of $150,000. And that was on average, not specifically for areas with high house prices and high living costs, like the Bay Area. Obviously the cost of having a child in skating, particularly an elite skater, is going to be a lot more in the Bay area than many other parts of the US.
I say this as one who lives in Vancouver BC, which is a very expensive city. A family can get by on $100,000 per year here, I'd say - although to a certain extent how well a family does depends on whether they purchased real estate before prices went nuts. But even so, real estate prices continue to go nuts, so home owners are still winning.
$100,000 per year is a lot more than many households live on. So essentially, being able to have an additional $50K to afford having a child in skating is somewhat a luxury.
The problem is, if you don't have a large figure skating program, then you will never know who the good skaters are. If you buy 5 lottery tickets, the likelihood of your getting a winning one is slim. If you buy 100 lottery tickets, your changes improve. If you buy a million lottery tickets, your chances dramatically increase. Reality is, many areas of the country do not have easy access to a rink. Unlike a gym and swimming pool, which pretty much every city has (regardless of size), and any sizable city will have multiple options, and probably even public school sponsored teams. So the majority of children never skate. How much talent in never recognized? We can't know, but it's easy to surmise it's a lot. There are no easy answers to fixing the lack of rinks, but this undoubtedly, is one of the biggest reasons, for lack of quality skaters in the US.
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