I, Tonya

Saw the film today, my thoughts:
  • Overall the movie is very good; excellent acting all around. The only disconcerting thing is that Robbie is too tall and frankly looks too old to play Tonya in her younger days. But her take on Tonya is dead on. And the actress portraying Diane Rawlinson captured her exactly as I always saw her: a soft spoken princess with a permanent pole up her ass.
  • Sebastian Stan is highly underrated as Gillooly. And the portrayal is very black and white depending on who you believe; he was sweet and caring alternating with being an abusive jerk.
  • I was not as impressed with Allison Janney as I expected to be. Her portrayal seems to be all Tonya's side of the story: cold, abusive monster mom. And it also became rather one note as the movie went along. No shades of gray whatsoever, just cold nasty mom. At best, she appears to resent her daughter if not outright hating her.
  • The movie indeed starts to drag somewhat once "the incident" comes into play. And without spoiling, let's just say some "revisionist history" (surprise, surprise) here comes into play, especially around the character of Shawn Eckardt. To the point where I actually wondered if the real Tonya and Jeff realized they were both being interviewed for this and may have collaborated a little on what was presented. I could not help but wonder what we would have seen if Shawn were still alive and could have presented his side.
  • And Tonya's portrayal overall, while outlining what she went through all her life, is really not that sympathetic compared to the way she's being portrayed in the media as a victim by Robbie and Janney. Yes, you feel for her surrounding the abuse she went through, but her warts are in full display, and they don't make her any more likable. She's still portrayed as blaming every one else but herself for her lack of more success in skating. "Not my fault" is a recurring theme.
  • One amusing point although likely embellishment - Jeff's comment about waking up one morning and finally watching the media leave - while OJ is being apprehended on the TV.
Overall, well worth seeing, I enjoyed it. The theater I was in was a multiplex. Audience was light to moderate in size, but notably, not a single person who looked under the age of 40+. This really is more of an art house type film, not a blockbuster which may explain why it's not in every theater in every city. And overall, I agree with Phil Hersh: the best line in the movie sums up Tonya's life, when she comments after the 92 games that she looks like someone who had a way out of this [crap] and 'effed it up.
 
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Yazmeen said:
Saw the film today, my thoughts:
  • Overall the movie is very good; excellent acting all around. The only disconcerting thing is that Robbie is too tall and frankly looks too old to play Tonya in her younger days.
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That's a good point. When we see the onscreen versions of Jeff and Tonya getting into a fight, they're close in size and they look somewhat evenly matched. But the real Tonya was a lot smaller. Tough as she was (and no doubt still is), she can't take on a man twice her size. In a lot of the 1994 footage, we see her walking around with various men and she comes up to their shoulders.

One of Tonya's ongoing complaints is that nobody believes her when she talks about the abuse she endured. But actually, it seems that most people DO believe her, but many dismiss it as typical behavior from members of that particular social class. Then again, I've read Lucinda Ruh's book and her mother used to beat her too. Their family was NOT of the same social class as Tonya's. I've heard of other instances as well, all of them involving skatemoms and their daughters, but I am only aware of one where someone called social services.
 
Yazmeen said:
I was not as impressed with Allison Janney as I expected to be. Her portrayal seems to be all Tonya's side of the story: cold, abusive monster mom. And it also became rather one note as the movie went along. No shades of gray whatsoever, just cold nasty mom. At best, she appears to resent her daughter if not outright hating her.
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According to an interview with Alison Janney to which I believe there was a link somewhere in the last 1,500 or so posts, the filmmakers tried to interview LaVona Golden at the outset. She wasn't available, and IIRC, they couldn't even find her. So they wound up telling the story only from Harding and Gillooly's points of view. Judging by the interview with Harding that was televised this past Thursday, the portrayal of Golden was Mission Accomplished.
 
Yazmeen said:
Saw the film today, my thoughts:
  • Overall the movie is very good; excellent acting all around. The only disconcerting thing is that Robbie is too tall and frankly looks too old to play Tonya in her younger days.
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My thoughts exactly! I couldn't get into her portrayal for that reason. Enjoyed the film, though.
 
I really enjoyed the movie as well. I just got back from seeing it. I appreciated that they used much of the original footage of Tonya's skating (e.g., Skate America 1991; Nationals 1992; the 1992 Olympics). I agree that the actor who played Gillooly was excellent, very nuanced.
 
Yazmeen said:
Saw the film today, my thoughts:
  • I was not as impressed with Allison Janney as I expected to be. Her portrayal seems to be all Tonya's side of the story: cold, abusive monster mom. And it also became rather one note as the movie went along. No shades of gray whatsoever, just cold nasty mom. At best, she appears to resent her daughter if not outright hating her.
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I've not seen "I, Tonya" but I've watched the documentary about young Tonya (I can't remember what it's called, but it was taken by some film studen in the 80's and it's on youtube). There are interviews with and footage of Tonya's mother in that and it's pretty scary
 
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One other thing - while the film acknowledges that Tonya lost her triple axel over time, it also seems to suggest that she was skating very well all the way up to Lillehammer, and that her failure to place better was again nearly solely because of the judge's dislike of her. Serious skating fans know that is not exactly the truth in 1993. Add this to some serious revisionist history about what led to the whack, well, interesting if not accurate.
 
Audiences who are unfamiliar with the actual circumstances; or, who have seen the publicity and interviews surrounding the movie, are likely to "believe" the depiction of events in the film.
 
skatesindreams said:
Audiences who are unfamiliar with the actual circumstances; or, who have seen the publicity and interviews surrounding the movie, are likely to "believe" the depiction of events in the film.
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That's an understatement. And Tonya did the producers no favors in her ABC interview.

In the movie, Tonya and Jeff appear to agree to Shawn setting up a guy to deliver threatening letters to Nancy because mailing them from Portland would be too obvious. There's no discussion or even suggestion of hurting her. The Hollywood version then has Shawn setting up the whack behind their backs. Not to mention he was supposedly the one who called in the death threat against Tonya at Regionals. So this revisionist history appears to make Jeff and Tonya innocent of any attempts to plot to actually take Nancy out. But then Jeff had to plead guilty to the whole thing because he didn't report it. So the "new" story is that the whack was solely plotted by Shawn. Who is conveniently dead and cannot defend himself. And then the real Tonya goes on TV and blurts out that she overheard the idiots talking about taking out her competition. Oops...
 
I’m sure in Tonya’s mind the “fact” that she (aledgedly) told them there was no need to whack anyone because she, Tonya was a great skater who could win on her own is proof of her innocence not guilt. See, I’m so innocent I even tried to stop the plot I knew nothing about!
 
Yazmeen said:
One other thing - while the film acknowledges that Tonya lost her triple axel over time, it also seems to suggest that she was skating very well all the way up to Lillehammer, and that her failure to place better was again nearly solely because of the judge's dislike of her. Serious skating fans know that is not exactly the truth in 1993. Add this to some serious revisionist history about what led to the whack, well, interesting if not accurate.
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True, and this bothered me too, but there also isn't time in the movie to put every competition in detail. They did acknowledge that she had a downfall after the 92 Olympics and also the conversation with the judge that led her to thinking that getting back with Jeff would help her image.
 
I was also surprised that the movie skipped over the 1993 Nationals. I remember at the time, in 1994, I thought that had USFS sent Tonya to Worlds and not left her off the team in 1993 the "incident" may not have happened. Another misrepresentation of history was the scene in which Diane R talks to her outside the place where Tonya works as a waitress and tells her the "news" that there will be another Olympics in 1994. That wasn't exactly news in 1992 post-Olympics as suggested in the film. But, overall I think the movie got the essence of the story and I appreciated that it did not go into a counter-narrative about Kerrigan or anyone else outside the Tonya H sphere of influence. That's what sets this movie apart from the other depictions.
 
Almost every telling of the Tonya/Nancy saga skips over what happened at 93 Nationals. There's no mention of it in the 90's TV movie (which got the NHK angle right), and most articles skip directly from Tonya's disappointing 92 season right into the 94 season.

I don't I ever heard Tonya refer to that event either.
 
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Insightful statement from this movie review - referring to the film and also the scene of Harding looking at her heavily made up face in the mirror just before her skating out for her free skate at Lillehammer: "It’s far from flattering. Odd then, how the real Harding is making the rounds in support of the film, possibly under the notion that there’s no such thing as bad publicity, possibly strengthening our own subjective perspective of the real person, namely, that she craves attention and fame under any circumstance. There’s another layer of the story for you."

http://www.mlive.com/movies/index.ssf/2018/01/i_tonya_review_laugh_at_this_i.html
 
Yazmeen said:
I was not as impressed with Allison Janney as I expected to be. Her portrayal seems to be all Tonya's side of the story: cold, abusive monster mom. And it also became rather one note as the movie went along. No shades of gray whatsoever, just cold nasty mom. At best, she appears to resent her daughter if not outright hating her.
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I do take your point and agree that Janney didn't portray a lot of shades of grey, but don't agree that she was just a cold, nasty mom.

I think Janney portrayed a woman who simply does not have a lot of shades of grey as she has been completely battered and beaten down by life - by an abusive husband/abusive husbands, by poverty and other unfortunate circumstances, by lack of opportunity, by an inability to parent her children well, for various reasons. She hates herself and finds no joy in life. Her daughter's success and talent is probably the only bright point in her life, and when she makes the comment "I made you who you are, it's a mother's sacrifice" (I paraphrase) while they are sitting in a restaurant, I believe she means it. And I believe Tonya's mother did sacrifice what little she had for a daughter. I believe they camped out in their car at competitions sometimes, because they couldn't afford a hotel - that's not something a mother would enjoy having to do. And sewing costumes by hand is an arduous and unforgiving task.

All of this would have been exacerbated by being surrounded by skaters' families who had so much more, lived in nice homes rather than a shack in the woods or a trailer, didn't have to constantly stress over daily expenses, and could afford to have nice costumes designed. And being surrounded by those families probably made her feel like a total failure and very ashamed of herself as person - a reverse version of the typical 'skating mom from hell'. This again would have made Tonya her only hope for success - vicariously through Tonya and by affirming that she had done something right as a mother - made at least something of herself as a mother.

In my view Janney communicated all of the above. Her exhaustion and unhappiness were palpable, the constant smoking was a reflection of her stress, and ending up on oxygen was a summary of the tragedy that was her life.

I think Janney's performance was brilliant and inspired. She did not inspire sympathy or empathy IMO and played the character 'hard'. But she did give viewers an understanding of her reality.
 
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casken said:
Almost every telling of the Tonya/Nancy saga skips over what happened at 93 Nationals. There's no mention of it in the 90's TV movie (which got the NHK angle right), and most articles skip directly from Tonya's disappointing 92 season right into the 94 season.

I don't I ever heard Tonya refer to that event either.
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The bizarre thing was that the standings showed Tonya in first before Nancy skated. Nancy was the last skater of the event, so I am sure that Tonya thought the worse she would finish would of been 2nd. Instead of everyone just dropping down a spot after Nancy was given 1st ( I wouldn't have- she was just as bad as everyone else that night) , a bizarre ordinal flip pushed Ervin up to 2nd , Tonia K to 3rd , and Tonya to 4th. I can find videos of the programs but not the actual scores. I think Rawlinson asked the judges why they did that to Tonya, and their response was she's had her turn, its the other girls turn now. (maybe fire on ice or on thin ice book).
 
cmk said:
The bizarre thing was that the standings showed Tonya in first before Nancy skated. Nancy was the last skater of the event, so I am sure that Tonya thought the worse she would finish would of been 2nd. Instead of everyone just dropping down a spot after Nancy was given 1st ( I wouldn't have- she was just as bad as everyone else that night) , a bizarre ordinal flip pushed Ervin up to 2nd , Tonia K to 3rd , and Tonya to 4th. I can find videos of the programs but not the actual scores.
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According to NBC, they "were getting a bogus readout on [their] computer." So I don't think the results actually flipped that way.

1993 U.S. Nationals Ladies Free Skate, Final Five

Tonia Harding-Gillooly (2nd after Technical Program)
5.3 5.7 5.5 5.5 5.6 5.5 5.4 5.6 5.4
5.5 5.6 5.5 5.6 5.5 5.5 5.4 5.5 5.6

Nicole Bobek (3rd after Technical Program)
5.2 5.5 5.3 5.7 5.5 5.6 5.3 5.7 5.3
5.4 5.5 5.6 5.6 5.6 5.6 5.3 5.8 5.6

Tonia Kwiatkowski (4th after Technical Program
Scores not included in the video

Lisa Ervin (5th after Technical Program)
5.3 5.7 5.5 5.6 5.6 5.7 5.6 5.5 5.7
5.4 5.8 5.7 5.6 5.7 5.7 5.5 5.6 5.7

Nancy Kerrigan (1st after Technical Program)
5.6 5.8 5.6 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.7 5.8 5.6
5.8 5.9 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.8 5.9 5.9

Every judge placed Kerrigan first of the four skaters whose marks I can find. All but one of the judges placed Ervin ahead of Harding-Gillooly in the Free Skate, and two even placed Bobek ahead of Harding-Gillooly. I doubt any wayward judges placed eventual bronze medalist Kwiatkowski ahead of Kerrigan, and I suspect that Harding-Gillooly was actually in third place, not first, when Kerrigan took the ice. :COP:
 
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cmk said:
The bizarre thing was that the standings showed Tonya in first before Nancy skated. Nancy was the last skater of the event, so I am sure that Tonya thought the worse she would finish would of been 2nd. Instead of everyone just dropping down a spot after Nancy was given 1st ( I wouldn't have- she was just as bad as everyone else that night) , a bizarre ordinal flip pushed Ervin up to 2nd , Tonia K to 3rd , and Tonya to 4th.
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Say what you will about the new judging system, but I'm so glad this would never happen now.
 
jenniferlyon said:
Say what you will about the new judging system, but I'm so glad this would never happen now.
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By contrast, now someone can build up a big lead in the short program, skate like crap in the free skate and still win over someone who has a perfect free skate. As far as I'm concerned, six of one, half a dozen of the other.
 
pixie cut said:
By contrast, now someone can build up a big lead in the short program, skate like crap in the free skate and still win over someone who has a perfect free skate. As far as I'm concerned, six of one, half a dozen of the other.
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Very true, but that also worked out in the old system. While Nancy tended to always botch her free programs, her short/technical programs were usually spot on. Her 93 US Nationals SP featured a solid triple lutz/double toe combination, double axel and double lutz (which Dick Button says was required; not sure about that at that time). I could not find Tonya's SP for comparison.

Nancy won both her Albertville bronze and her 93 Nationals gold on the strength of her SPs. She was hard to beat in that segment if she hit everything. Her free programs, however...even as a fan, I'll admit she was a mess there, but her SPs gave her major leads going into the free.
 
pixie cut said:
By contrast, now someone can build up a big lead in the short program, skate like crap in the free skate and still win over someone who has a perfect free skate.
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That could easily happen under 6.0 as well and often did.

Also under both systems, it's possible for a skater with one or two major errors to win over someone who skated "clean" with lesser difficulty or subtle quality errors/weaknesses that only diehard purists (including officials) cared about.

That is probably more common in IJS, but it did happen in 6.0 as well. E.g., how often did a one-fall program from Michelle Kwan or Todd Eldredge beat a no-fall performance from other Americans.
 
cmk said:
a bizarre ordinal flip pushed Ervin up to 2nd , Tonia K to 3rd , and Tonya to 4th. I can find videos of the programs but not the actual scores. I think Rawlinson asked the judges why they did that to Tonya, and their response was she's had her turn, its the other girls turn now. (maybe fire on ice or on thin ice book).
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When the reality is that when ordinals are mixed, it means the judges disagreed and sometimes the results would surprise even then. I'm so glad that doesn't happen now. It makes the sport appear even more arbitrary to the less knowledgeable but it also gave results that even people in the know couldn't particularly defend.
 
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