I, Tonya

[bardtoob]

Piers Morgan challenges Tonya.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowb...ter-tonya-harding-after-fiery-on-air-bust-up/

Well, that was bound to happen. Too bad Tonya was not prepared for it, like she should have been ... I feel this is the real story of Tonya, not prepared for what was bound to happen.

 

[berthesghost]

And Tonya did not "participate" in the attack - the most she did was contribute to its planning.

I don't think the film trivialized that contribution. It did show the note. And it had to show Tonya's and Stan's perspective - Nancy's was not relevant to the story-line.

But the film was not about 'the incident'. I don't think non-skating fans who saw the film came away wondering how involved she was in it. Rather, they would come away thinking about the theme of class, and about the character's struggle against adversity - the final volume of Tonya down in the boxing ring with blazing eyes spoke volumes IMO.

Ultimately this film was not about Tonya at all. She was a vehicle for its larger themes.

I would think the Tonya haters might be satisfied that she was punished by being the object of constant ridicule (one of the articles linked above is about a comedian who found ample material in Tonya) and receiving a lifetime ban from the US federation. As mentioned above, the film emphasized that she would have much preferred just to spend 18 months in jail.

She's been punished more harshly than others who commit similar crimes. And as also stated above, it's not her fault that a film was made about her that happened to be an excellent film. And in terms of bring redemption, its 24 years after the incident. Tonya had to rebuild her life in its fall-out and the abuse she experienced will probably haunt her and impact her for the rest of her life. Even if you hold her responsible for ruining her own life, she still had to rebuild it. On that account, she really did the best she could, although it took her some time.

ITA that the film wasn't about Tonya at all, which is my main beef with it. It seemed to want to focus on the turbulent mother daughter relationship but it's amazing that Robbie and Janiney were able to breath some life into the shallow depiction that never seemed to scratch below the surface of "her mom was mean". It's this lack of exploration of complex female relationships that make me feel the movie has no feminist message, especially when compared to better movies like frozen river.

Participating in only the planning of the attack and not actually wielding a baton herself is semantics, ask anyone who went down for hiring a hit man, but it is the reason she got off lightly.. Legally, having made a deal and avoiding time inside. The incident took up a major portion of the movie and is the basis for the movies main point IMO : she was tried too harshly in the court of public opinion. They go out of their way to make it seem like her lifetime ban from a club was made by the legal system and that the government was more lenient to the men then her. A lie nonskating fans who saw the movie will walk away with. Not everyone who refuses to see Harding as a faultless victim is a hater, but whatever.

The focus of the movie was all over the place IMO and it could never seem to make up its mind if it was farce, mindful reexamining, comedy or drama.

As much as I dislike Morgan and his tacky ways, that non-interview interview shows Harding hasn't moved on successfully at all. Refusing to discuss the incident won't change public perception of her and if she isn't trying to improve public opinion, then what is she doing press for?

 

[Yazmeen]

I've been reading a lot of articles about the Golden Globes and Janney's (well-deserved) win, and the reaction from the public to the director and cast of "I, Tonya" bringing Tonya Harding to the Golden Globes. The majority reaction has been WAY negative, including on Allison Janney's acceptance speech calling out Tonya - she has definitely gotten blow-back on what people are interpreting as praise of Tonya or just calling her "misunderstood." And before anyone goes off, yes, Tonya was abused by her mother and ex, but the public comments generally focused on it being wrong in any way to celebrate a woman who had involvement (at any level) in an attack on another woman. Not exactly the smartest thing to do at a ceremony that had a major female emphasis on stopping abuse against women. I'm guessing the movie team thought her abuse story would override the attack story; it hasn't come close to doing that. Women don't accept abuse in any form, including women abusing other women. And like berthesgost, the majority don't think that what Tonya officially got charged with or that she didn't wield the baton gives her a total forgiveness pass.

I have a feeling the upcoming interview on Thursday is going to stoke more controversy now that Tonya has apparently admitted she at least knew something was going on before the attack. I think it would be smart if the director and cast drop back from showing off Tonya at any more events. Allison Janney is worthy of an Oscar; I'd hate to see any antics from Tonya or the movie team's use of her for publicity to create a negative atmosphere that could cost her the award. (Yes, it could happen - while this is not exactly the same, Eddie Murphy won all the big awards up to the Oscars for his role in "Dreamgirls," but public and critical reaction to his offensive portrayal of a woman in "Norbit" is strongly believed to have cost him the Oscar.)

 

[VGThuy]

I wouldn't mind if Laurie Metcalf ended up with that Oscar. If Harvey Weinstein was still around and he had a rival picture in contention for that award, he would have had a field day with the hit job he could have done to this movie and Janney's speech that some took as her trying to make Tonya out to be some sort of American hero. A major part of his bullying happened during Oscar season.

 

[Karina1974]

Well, that was bound to happen. Too bad Tonya was not prepared for it, like she should have been ... I feel this is the real story of Tonya, not prepared for what was bound to happen.

When is she ever, down to something as simple as having spare skate laces that were actually the proper length!

 

[Inessence]

Well, that was bound to happen. Too bad Tonya was not prepared for it, like she should have been ... I feel this is the real story of Tonya, not prepared for what was bound to happen.

I dunno, I think she's fairly used to these ambush style interviews. (Watch her on Youtube on the Obama "Pull a Tonya Harding" segment)
I think she had a script in her head of what she wanted to say and was trying to be careful and measured. She picked the wrong guy to try and promote herself. PM's a chicken-choker with questionable integrity himself. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...es_cnn_show_the_british_host_was_rubbish.html

 

[jenny12]

Piers Morgan challenges Tonya.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowb...ter-tonya-harding-after-fiery-on-air-bust-up/

Ugh, I'm no Tonya Harding apologist, but Piers Morgan has to be one of the most insufferable, pompous, a-holes on the planet.

 

[VGThuy]

Tonya responded in a way that seemed like she was married to a script she had rehearsed for years (decades), but I thought she handled herself pretty well considering who she was talking to.

 

[Inessence]

You know who I would love to see interview Tonya? Nancy Grace. Now THAT'd be a show for the ages.

 

[Inessence]

Good article on I, Tonya and the history and public interest of women pitted against each other. http://www.refinery29.uk/2018/01/187419/female-celebrity-feuds

 

[BaileyCatts]

Some things I've always wondered about. Note that I have never attended a Nationals so I have no idea about the set-up, design, or access of backstage areas, which I'm guessing is a lot more strict today than it was in 1994. Maybe some of you were at 1994 Nationals and can visualize the areas involved.

How did Shane know exactly where to go in the arena to be able to find Nancy coming off the ice (unless 'someone' told him )?

How did he know exactly when to be there at the exact moment Nancy was coming off the ice?

Was this tunnel exit in a backstage area that only athletes were allowed access too? I'm assuming it had to be near the locker rooms? How was he allowed to be just wondering around in this area if it was? Or was this just like a regular tunnel in the arena that people who go up to their seats use to get to the seats?

As for him being in the building at all, practices were open to the public, right? Did he need a ticket to get in, or could anyone just come in and watch practice? I'm guessing in 1994 the only people who would even know you could do that (or care) would be die hard fans anyway, so there wouldn't exactly be a stampede or anything.

 

[Japanfan]

And like berthesgost, the majority don't think that what Tonya officially got charged with or that she didn't wield the baton gives her a total forgiveness pass.

Yet, other people convicted of a similar crime some 24 years back who committed the crime under a lot of adverse circumstances/personal adversity do get a forgiveness pass, particularly if they have not offended again.

Tonya responded in a way that seemed like she was married to a script she had rehearsed for years (decades), but I thought she handled herself pretty well considering who she was talking to.

I think it would be smart if the director and cast drop back from showing off Tonya at any more events.

The appearances and events are probably contracted, to promote the film.

I agree.

 

[VGThuy]

There aren't a lot of crimes as sensationalist, perpetually public by the perpetrator, and deal with taking out the competition like this one does, so people may react to it differently.

 

[jenniferlyon]

OK, I finally saw I, Tonya. Some impressions...

1. The film portrays Tonya as a victim, yet at the same time she comes off as her own worst enemy, which is pretty much how I view her in real life.
2. Oddly, the Jeff Gilooly character comes off as being the one with the most genuine feelings. He truly seems to be in love with Tonya and feels real pain when she leaves him while she more often comes off as using Jeff to get away from her mother and because he has a steady job. (I should emphasize that I am only referring to the characters in the movie here, not the real humans behind them. I never got these same vibes from the real Jeff.)
3. The Diane Rawlinson character would fit in with the Desperate Housewives on Wisteria Lane. (Anyone else remember how we used to regularly discuss that show in the Off The Beaten Track subforum?) At times, she appeared to be on Valium. Or something.
4. Allison Janney deserved that Golden Globe Award!
5. The movie version of Shawn Eckardt was the closest to how I remember all these people in real life. I have also known people like that in my own personal life.
6. The filmmakers took some obvious artistic liberties, especially where the skating events were concerned. But I can understand why they needed to do it that way. (Having taken my own artistic liberties with some of these very same competitions in my skating novel, I found this amusing.)
7. I wish there had been something at the end about how Tonya was shut out of the professional skating realm due to the other skaters banding together and telling the promoters they would not skate with her. That was a bigger punishment than being banned from the USFSA, since her competitive career was over at that stage anyhow.
8. While the movie wasn't "about" Nancy, I felt there should have been SOMETHING to show that, yes, this was a physical assault on a real human being and it must have been a terrifying, painful experience for her.

That's all for now. I may add more.

 

[pixie cut]

Ugh, I'm no Tonya Harding apologist, but Piers Morgan has to be one of the most insufferable, pompous, a-holes on the planet.

Indeed, he is, but in that moment I was his biggest fan.

 

[Japanfan]

There aren't a lot of crimes as sensationalist, perpetually public by the perpetrator, and deal with taking out the competition like this one does, so people may react to it differently.

True, but assault is a very common crime. The injured victim doesn't hurt any less because an assault is low profile compared to the Nancy assault.

 

[VGThuy]

I agree, but I think because it's still such a sensationalist and public event that more people will have an opinion on it and stick with it. Public people don't get treated like regular folk. Plus Tonya was a woman and the idea of a woman taking out another woman to win a competition in a violent way, I am sure you agree adds another layer to whether people are willing to forgive Tonya (some are quick to forgive her because she's a woman and some are more inclined to keep treating her as garbage because she didn't act ladylike). Plus, for many, public figures or not, many people think she was in on it (whether or not they are right) and the fact she never took responsibility for that makes them less likely to forgive her.

Anyway, I'm sure if someone who wasn't a public figure did something similar, people who knew about it in their community would have mixed reactions regarding whether they wanted to hire that person for a job. We know how people's criminal records and past still haunt them every day.

 

[aussieSKATES]

Some things I've always wondered about. Note that I have never attended a Nationals so I have no idea about the set-up, design, or access of backstage areas, which I'm guessing is a lot more strict today than it was in 1994. Maybe some of you were at 1994 Nationals and can visualize the areas involved.

How did Shane know exactly where to go in the arena to be able to find Nancy coming off the ice (unless 'someone' told him )?

How did he know exactly when to be there at the exact moment Nancy was coming off the ice?

Was this tunnel exit in a backstage area that only athletes were allowed access too? I'm assuming it had to be near the locker rooms? How was he allowed to be just wondering around in this area if it was? Or was this just like a regular tunnel in the arena that people who go up to their seats use to get to the seats?

As for him being in the building at all, practices were open to the public, right? Did he need a ticket to get in, or could anyone just come in and watch practice? I'm guessing in 1994 the only people who would even know you could do that (or care) would be die hard fans anyway, so there wouldn't exactly be a stampede or anything.

We saw the 1994 United States Championships in person.

I don't know if this will answer your question or not.

But prior to the event, at least for evening practices at Cobo Arena, there was no police presence inside the building. Maybe a volunteer or two to answer questions, and a random guard wandering around. Given Detroit's uncomfortable reputation, as an outsider, that observation really stuck with me.

It was quite easy to leave the arena at rink level, too. However, you did need a ticket to enter the concourse.

In Joe Louis Arena down the block however, parts of the building available to the public were much more monitored, segmented and signed.

 

[jenniferlyon]

I polished and expanded my previous review and posted it on my blog: https://jenslyon.wordpress.com/2018/01/10/i-tonya-my-impressions/

 

[ssminnow]

My friend, after watching "I, Tonya", remarked that Tonya has "a fragility that comes from not being grounded", which I thought was spot on.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Piers Morgan challenges Tonya.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowb...ter-tonya-harding-after-fiery-on-air-bust-up/

Just going by that clip, I think considering she has probably been asked the question a thousand times, but that he was aggressive and interrupting, she handled it quite well and was polite.

 

[Japanfan]

Just going by that clip, I think considering she has probably been asked the question a thousand times, but that he was aggressive and interrupting, she handled it quite well and was polite.

I agree, but I wish she'd been more assertive and said the event was litigated some 24 years ago, and she was here to promote a film, not on trial.

 

[Aussie Willy]

I agree, but I wish she'd been more assertive and said the event was litigated some 24 years ago, and she was here to promote a film, not on trial.

Yes that is a good point.

 

[VGThuy]

Johnny's take:

https://twitter.com/JohnnyGWeir/status/950913337340112901

 

[skatesindreams]

Amen, Johnny!

I wonder how much Tonya has been paid for her participation with the film; and all the promotion connected with it?
With its' success at the Golden Globes; no doubt interest will continue until after the Academy Awards, at least.

 

[morqet]

Amen, Johnny!

I wonder how much Tonya has been paid for her participation with the film; and all the promotion connected with it?
With its' success at the Golden Globes; no doubt interest will continue until after the Academy Awards, at least.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/...an-scandal.html?smid=tw-nytimesarts&smtyp=cur According to this NYT profile published today, she was paid an initial $1,500 for her rights, with more to follow based on how the film does at the box office.

 

[Vagabond]

They both chose their paths. Everyone has their crosses to bear.

This is not altogether true. Tonya Harding did not choose to be the victim of child abuse or to suffer its long-term effects.

 

[barbk]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/...an-scandal.html?smid=tw-nytimesarts&smtyp=cur According to this NYT profile published today, she was paid an initial $1,500 for her rights, with more to follow based on how the film does at the box office.

The interview/profile was fascinating and well worth the read. The ending:

"Here’s the thing: A lot of what she said wasn’t true. She contradicted herself endlessly. But she reminded me of other people I’ve known who have survived trauma and abuse, and who tell their stories again and again to explain what had happened to them but also to process it themselves. The things she said that were false — they were spiritually true, meaning they made her point, and she seemed to believe them. So much has been made about the tone of the movie — does it play abuse for laughs? Does it love her or hate her? Is she vindicated? Do we forgive her? Sit with her for an hour and you will understand that there might be no other way to go with the material. This is how she sounds. It would also be wrong to portray her as anything other than who she is.

With her head against my chest, I leaned down and hugged her. Here is something I’ll never understand, that you can be sitting across the table from someone who certainly did something bad, who appears to show no remorse for it and you can still feel the oxytocin rush of love and sympathy for her. “This world is a bitch, girl,” I told her. “Don’t end up in a ditch, girl.” She looked up at me and smiled and then Mrs. Price hopped into her truck and drove home to her husband and son, who were eagerly awaiting her return."

 

[skatesindreams]

According to this NYT profile published today, she was paid an initial $1,500 for her rights, with more to follow based on how the film does at the box office.

I'm sure that she has received much more than $1500.00 thus far!

 

[berthesghost]

Wow.

No one ever sat down and bought her a drink and asked her for her side of the story.

well, that’s about as close to summing up I, Tonya in one sentence as it gets. I also suggest drinking while watching too.

As “interesting” as the Lewinski stuff was, the cake imo was taken by the belief that she’d come home a hero if only she’d skated well in Norway. Um..