But how to you want to read them if it's not by performance quality ? And most importantly elements ?
This wasn't my way, it's the judges way. SD is most importantly based on elements and execution before anything. The subjectivity may lie in the preference of a program for sure, but one cannot argue on execution.
Anyone who makes the argument that P/C's success is due solely or primarily to Gailhaguet's politikking cannot be taken seriously.For the record, with all due respect to P/C, I thought V/M definitely won yesterday's SD. On any given day, V/M perform their SD with better overall finesse and edge quality. Well, what can we do? Didier is doing his job.
@marbri, as you and I discussed over in the V/M thread, isn't it the level 3 in the no touch step sequence that really hurt them? of course the lesser GOE on the rhumba hurt as well.I know how to read the protocols and I know how this works. We don't interpret them the same way and there is probably no real point to continue a debate because the reality is neither you nor I were on that panel to say precisely why it went a certain way. You think it all comes down to the rhumba because there exists the 0.50 points that you feel explains the 0.54 lead whereas I think it came down to subjectivity (which btw is not me implying something nefarious, this IS a subjective sport at the end of the day).
As much as I want this to be true, I have a feeling the FD won't play out the same way.
You need to chill. I didn't say P/C's success is solely on Didier. I insinuated that Didier is doing his job. Don't put words into my mouth. I think Guillaume is a star. He's one of the best ice dancers right now. I'm not trying to make P/C look like they suck, cause they don't. It's just that, in my opinion, V/M performed better and are better in the short dance. Period.Anyone who makes the argument that P/C's success is due solely or primarily to Gailhaguet's politikking cannot be taken seriously.
First of all, P/C are exceptional skaters. Cizeron is a generational talent, and Papadakis has become quite special herself. I realize many fans are sold on the idea that V/M are untouchable, but V/M - while excellent themselves - are not untouchable. And you can say many things about their programs, but "finesse" is really not the first word that comes to mind.
Second, P/C's success has come to some extent despite their federation and not because of it. They had absolutely no support when they trained in France, as their placements and assignments in the 2013-14 season demonstrate. They basically had to leave the country to get away from their federation screwing them over. Once they did, their talent and programs were impossible to ignore.
Finally, the notion that Gailhaguet is some master politician is laughable. Skating is full of politics, and those who do it well aren't obvious like Gailhaguet. They don't get voted down in the first round of the elections to replace Speedy, either. Whatever influence you think he has far outstrips his actual power.
You didn't insinuate anything. You stated very clearly that P/C winning the SD yesterday was Didier doing his job. That's not putting words in your mouth; it's attributing your own comments to you.You need to chill. I didn't say P/C's success is solely on Didier. I insinuated that Didier is doing his job. Don't put words into my mouth. I think Guillaume is a star. He's one of the best ice dancers right now. I'm not trying to make P/C look like they suck, cause they don't. It's just that, in my opinion, V/M performed better and are better in the short dance. Period.
He tried to politik and did a lousy job of it. My point exactly.BTW, the fact that you're downplaying Didier's politicking is ridiculous. Forgot what happened in 2002?
Unless Guillaume changed his name, Gaby and him did the job. Like Ben Agosto said, it was "breathtakingly clean".
The cleanest won. And if Shibs had been cleaner they would have been dangerously close to V/M too. If H/D were cleaner, they would have been closer to the Shibs (that wasn't their best performance yesterday).
C/B's base value was 1 point higher due to the level 3 H/D got on their twizzles. H/D did earn higher GOE and ultimately, received higher TES. Not sure what you are complaining about.H/D were cleaner, they didn't get credit for it. Ben Agosto's call on H/D: "very clean, didn't make any mistakes; edges were very clean; excellent twizzles; twizzles were beautiful."
The fact that they're virtually tied with C/B in TSS, whom Agosto described as "sloppy with the free leg in the step sequences, especially the Pst; twizzle sequence slow on the rotation" is testament to how the judges were not consistent in evaluating these teams.
Overall, when comparing them to SCI and NHK I found them a bit slower. But what caused them trouble were the levels. Especially that level 3 twizzle. When they did it, I thought Maddie almost bobbled. It wasn't their cleanest twizzles (they have gotten a perfect score on this before, so they're capable of it). Ben also said that performance-wise it could have been better and I agree. They left points on the table.H/D were cleaner, they didn't get credit for it. Ben Agosto's call on H/D: "very clean, didn't make any mistakes; edges were very clean; excellent twizzles; twizzles were beautiful."
The fact that they're virtually tied with C/B in TSS, whom Agosto described as "sloppy with the free leg in the step sequences, especially the Pst; twizzle sequence slow on the rotation" is testament to how the judges were not consistent in evaluating these teams.
Buck up, VGT! The Shibs’ FD is a sleeper, and a grower. After you see it, you don’t know what hit you. With Fix You, you knew. But it is what Evolution was aiming at, IMO, and it is mesmerizing in a semi-abstract, semi-emotional way. Plus, even though they can’t exactly swagger in it, they are skating at a new level, in my non-expert opinion.As much as I want this to be true, I have a feeling the FD won't play out the same way.
LOL. I said what was on my mind. You can say anything you want, but the fact that you went defensive mode and made a 4-paragraph essay undermining Didier's deviousness speaks volumes about you. HAVE A GOOD LIFE.You didn't insinuate anything. You stated very clearly that P/C winning the SD yesterday was Didier doing his job. That's not putting words in your mouth; it's attributing your own comments to you.
He tried to politik and did a lousy job of it. My point exactly.
I agree very much. I also think that this was an off-SD for them today... better having that now than at Olys or Nationals.
Nothing. She's french.
as well the french judge gave V/M pcs of 4 x 9.50 and a 9.75/ cdn judge gave P/C 3 x 9.50, a 9.75 and a 10.00.
But what caused them trouble were the levels.
ASAP is going to have to wait until I finish grad school two weeks from today, but I love the suggestion.
Watching the juniors coming up and a few newer seniors you might not need to pity them next year.Yes, but this is Russia we're talking about. More important than substance is form or exterior. Add to that the element of nepotism and the political support internally will always be strong. I pity teams coming up because they'll need to be leaps and bounds better than them, to even have an opportunity to represent Russia. I am just telling it as it is.
About S/B, they are super nice and sweet people but I can´t stand her skating, their costumes, their programs, their music . But russian junior teams are looking good, and I just saw that Anastasia/Kirill (Russia) are in first place after the SD at JGPF, C/P in 2nd place. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC_f0MdMrz0
For the record, with all due respect to P/C, I thought V/M definitely won yesterday's SD. On any given day, V/M perform their SD with better overall finesse and edge quality. Well, what can we do? Didier is doing his job.
While I almost hate Bobrova’s SD this season (I don’t like S/B’s either) , I think that Bobrova and Soloviev are miles better than S/B. Katia’s posture and Zhulin’s chores are their main problems, yes, but other than that they are pretty good. They have better skating skills, speed, edges. S/B are one of the slowest teams in current top-10, IMO. Their are still juniorish and sloppy sometimes.
And gosh Stepanova just can’t skate She has improved but her knees are still very stiff and she can’t gather speed in few turns (look at Tessa, Gabi, Ilinykh, for example).
I honestly don’t see a reason, why they should be ahead of BS or even SinKats
Russian federation would have gladly put I/K ahead of B/S each time but I/K were prone to stupid mistakes and twizzles disasters..
S/K beat B/S in the SD at the 2015-2016 Nats I think.But the question is why was b/s always put in the position to take advantage of b/s mistakes? Even when I/K were clean they never beat b/s in either a sd or fd. B/s are totally undefeated in sd and fd in Russian nationals. Clean b/s always beat clean b/s. B/s also made tons of mistakes at Russian nationals. It’s not like they were Davis and White consistent in Russia. Flawed b/s always beat flawed I/k too in Russian nationals.
You are so right. Their only loss to any other team at Russian nationals -post 2010. The only time a mistake ever really hurt them at Russian nationals. And their SD score last season was 81! I think it’s all about preserving the work they did for them among the international judges and they don’t want s/k or s/b to go around saying their number one.S/K beat B/S in the SD at the 2015-2016 Nats I think.
I said what was on my mind.
But once again H/D juuuust missed the opportunity to step upSo as I already said, that bronze medal is up for grabs, and the shibs IMO just lost their chance.
Oh please. They just had a very uncharacteristic event. They never miss their twizzles. Whatever is off will be fixed by Nats. Who can predict the Olympics? But they certainly didn't just lose their chance.So as I already said, that bronze medal is up for grabs, and the shibs IMO just lost their chance.