IOC's decision: (clean) Russian athletes can compete under neutral flag at PyeongChang Olympics

[BittyBug]

I figure those folks were actually skating fans. We all tend to cheer for everyone don't we?! I've heard that a lot of the people at the arena in Sochi were not really skating fans, just there to cheer on their team. I mean, watch Yuzu's SP--some guy screaming Russia to screw with him while he gets into his starting position, and people cheer and hoot and holler and go with it. I've never seen such behavior before!

I attended the Torino OLYs and it was like being in the thunderdome with people screaming for blood. I have never heard such a deafening roar and noise from the crowd.

It was the antithesis of being at a typical skating event, likely because many in the audience were not skating fans but rather just there because it was the OLYs. Further, many are there as guests of a corporate sponsor and they treated the event as though it were background in a sports bar.

In fact, I had to reprimand some of the people next to me for talking through programs. They did apologize but seemed completely unaware of what was considered polite skating fan behavior.

 

[BlueRidge]

I attended the Torino OLYs and it was like being in the thunderdome with people screaming for blood.

this sounds like the one time I went to the baseball World Series. It was horrific as far as I was concerned. Crowds get scary at humongous sports events. I have no interest in ever again attending one.

 

[skatingguy]

I figure those folks were actually skating fans. We all tend to cheer for everyone don't we?! I've heard that a lot of the people at the arena in Sochi were not really skating fans, just there to cheer on their team. I mean, watch Yuzu's SP--some guy screaming Russia to screw with him while he gets into his starting position, and people cheer and hoot and holler and go with it. I've never seen such behavior before!

I attended the Torino OLYs and it was like being in the thunderdome with people screaming for blood. I have never heard such a deafening roar and noise from the crowd.

It was the antithesis of being at a typical skating event, likely because many in the audience were not skating fans but rather just there because it was the OLYs. Further, many are there as guests of a corporate sponsor and they treated the event as though it were background in a sports bar.

In fact, I had to reprimand some of the people next to me for talking through programs. They did apologize but seemed completely unaware of what was considered polite skating fan behavior.

I've heard that about many audiences at different Olympic events. People will take any tickets they can get their hands on, even if they're not fans of a particular sport, or have ever attended a live event before. The cheering in Vancouver was over the top for the Canadian athletes at times, people yelling at inappropriate times, and singing the anthem. It makes for a great fan atmosphere but a difficult atmosphere for the athletes.

 

[Willin]

@overedge @Rainbow @barbarafan Not to mention the whole decreased bone density problem and slowing the healing of any injury an athlete might have. And what happens if you stop taking them without tapering...

Looking at WADA's list, it looks like these aren't even the types of steroids that are banned - only anabolic ones are banned. Maybe the people like @lala who are upset about prednisone/prednisolone/methylprednisolone don't know the difference between anabolic steroids and "steroids" as in the medication?
Looking at the post Lala cited, let's consider the medications these people are complaining about outside of Ritalin, which has been argued to death on this forum.
-As said, prednisone, prednisolone, and methylprednisolone are NOT banned by WADA, and may hurt performance instead of enhance it.
-Triamcinolone is a skin cream to reduce itching - hardly a performance enhancing drug unless you are itching so much you can't move. It is also NOT banned by WADA.
-Opioids including Oxycodone/hydromorphine - Banned by WADA, but most athletes are likely able to get TUEs for them. These are medications you will get after surgery whether you want to or not. Probably 90% of all Olympic athletes have had to use an opioid at least once in their life due to injuries or surgeries they've had. Taking them longterm would also certainly harm athletic performance. Any athlete in any country could take these if they submitted the proper documentation of a reason to need them (ie. surgery or injury).
-Fermoterol - Banned by WADA unless the athlete has a TUE. Again, any athlete from any country who has undergone proper diagnostic testing is allowed to use this medication, so it's not unfair that an athlete took it with the approval of WADA.

So, four of the cited medications aren't even banned by WADA, and the other three are allowed to be taken if a TUE is approved. How is it unfair for athletes to use these?

Yes, so anti-doping and so pro-clean sport that you shamelessly had multiple convicted dopers - some caught more than once - running for you at the Olympics without a whimper of protest, and if they were clean I'll eat something inedible. Come on. This is the sort of hypocrisy that's pissing me off about this.

I- I just can't with you any more... Yes, the US has dopers, but Australia has their own as well. As does the UK. As does France. As does South Africa. As does Japan. As does China. As does Canada. There are literally no countries without athletes found to be doping. This does not mean they should be banned. If you're so upset about the US, why aren't you upset with every other country that has dopers (including your own)?



As for booing, somehow I doubt that a crowd of figure skating fans in South Korea is going to be nearly as drunk as the crowd at american football/soccer/baseball/hockey games, so I don't think you can use those sports to say fans outside of Russia boo people a lot. Yeah, maybe when drunk, but certainly not for a sport most people don't watch drunk.

 

[misskarne]

I- I just can't with you any more... Yes, the US has dopers, but Australia has their own as well. As does the UK. As does France. As does South Africa. As does Japan. As does China. As does Canada. There are literally no countries without athletes found to be doping. This does not mean they should be banned. If you're so upset about the US, why aren't you upset with every other country that has dopers (including your own)?

Yes, Australia has dopers, and yes, I get pissed off with them. The reason I keep returning to the US dopersprinters is because USADA and various US bodies have primarily been the ones firing their mouths off about the whole thing. A lot of the biggest protest has been from the US - the same US who has no problem with dopersprinters running for them. The hypocrisy reeks.

Hell, not two weeks ago a USADA official outright stated that Adelina had doped - and she was promptly cleared the next week. But if you're fine with that open slander, I guess that's on you.

 

[Bulletsdad]

Yes, Australia has dopers, and yes, I get pissed off with them. The reason I keep returning to the US dopersprinters is because USADA and various US bodies have primarily been the ones firing their mouths off about the whole thing. A lot of the biggest protest has been from the US - the same US who has no problem with dopersprinters running for them. The hypocrisy reeks.

Hell, not two weeks ago a USADA official outright stated that Adelina had doped - and she was promptly cleared the next week. But if you're fine with that open slander, I guess that's on you.

When the USADA runs the doping program, get back to me.

 

[VGThuy]

And when the USADA does it due to improper influence by the U.S. government.

 

[Willin]

@misskarne Has it ever occurred to you that the reason USADA is so upset is because they hate doping a lot? And that they called for harsher punishment of Gatlin? They literally went to court to uphold the punishment against Gatlin? I'm pretty sure that USADA wouldn't spend the time and thousands of dollars to go to court if they didn't want to punish Gatlin. And all the other court cases, bans, extra tests, and other forms of punishment? I'm also pretty sure they wouldn't randomly take him off a flight that just landed for a random test. And why would they show up at his house at random hours of the night for tests - usually they test with little warning, but they don't wake you up to do it.

Oh, and your statement that the US is more enthusiastic than other countries is definitely false. Yes, they're enthusiastic, but a lot of countries are. Let's just look at Australia. Here's their response to the ban for 2018, a former ASADA official's response to the Rio non-ban, the ASADA's official statement about Rio, and an athlete's reaction to the Rio situation. Oh. And Australia was one of 17 countries calling for an all out ban of Russia in Pyeongchang. All found with an easy google search. And where's your source that a USADA official said anything about Adelina recently? I couldn't find anything even mentioning USADA and Adelina in the same article published in the past month.

ETA: I did find something about the USADA CEO criticizing the lack of testing RUSADA did of their top athletes, but nowhere does he specifically call any of those athletes dopers.

 

[debo]

I attended the Torino OLYs and it was like being in the thunderdome with people screaming for blood. I have never heard such a deafening roar and noise from the crowd.

It was the antithesis of being at a typical skating event, likely because many in the audience were not skating fans but rather just there because it was the OLYs. Further, many are there as guests of a corporate sponsor and they treated the event as though it were background in a sports bar.

In fact, I had to reprimand some of the people next to me for talking through programs. They did apologize but seemed completely unaware of what was considered polite skating fan behavior.

Ugh. I went to sold out Worlds in Edmonton and Boston and the crowds were great, ecstatic skating fans that added so much to the event. I’ve heard this about Olympic audiences as well, but the audience in SLC 2002 sounded knowledgeable, at least.

 

[VGThuy]

Olympic audiences I hear are just different and they aren’t all skating fans so it changes the atmosphere a bit. That said, I’m sure many are enthusiastic and happy to be there and just want to be entertained. I hope they like Moulin Rouge, Swan Lake, and Romeo and Juliet. There will be a lot of them.

 

[puglover]

Aren't the true victims in this time and time again the athletes and their families who have sacrificed so much to get to the Olympics and compete cleanly and then they are beat by those who bend the rules and win medals unfairly? I hope all countries get the message that they are responsible for sending clean athletes to the Olympics and they need to do all in their power to clean house, constantly. This is truly sad for these innocent athletes and I think I would feel more at peace with this if I enjoyed one of the sports especially susceptible to drug advantages. I do feel, as in anything, the punishment has to act as a deterrent or it is useless. Will this be a wake-up call? Also, I doubt any athlete from any other country wants to compete against demoralized skaters. If they win - it would be a shallow victory.

 

[misskarne]

And where's your source that a USADA official said anything about Adelina recently? I couldn't find anything even mentioning USADA and Adelina in the same article published in the past month.

Oh so sorry, I suppose he didn't outright call them dopers, but [URL='https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/sports/olympics/olympics-figure-skating-doping.html']he came damn close enough[/URL].

Relevant section:

[QUOTE]
[Sotnikova] was 17 at the time. Would she have been aware of Russia’s scheme? Would she have had the power to say no?

“The problem is, it’s not being followed up on,” Tygart said. “There’s no evidence she’s been interviewed. There’s no evidence her coach has been talked to.”

Evgenia Medvedeva, already a two-time world skating champion at 17, would be Russia’s prohibitive favorite to win gold in South Korea. Has she faced regular drug screening? Tygart asked. How often?[/QUOTE]

I suppose that's this weasel's way of getting around it - casting aspersions and throwing shadows, but not outright saying it so he can't get sued.

 

[Sylvia]

ETA: I did find something about the USADA CEO criticizing the lack of testing RUSADA did of their top athletes, but nowhere does he specifically call any of those athletes dopers.

Was it this NYT article I posted with excerpts in this GSD thread? https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/olympic-skating-without-russia-‘like-a-meal-without-salt-and-pepper’.102093/

ETA: Yes, apparently so.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The people who ended up with curling tickets in Vancouver were far worse than the skating audiences. Lots of people who were clueless about how to act. Which you'd think would make people try to find out instead of acting like they we're at an outdoor football match, but it often doesn't, and that's what I find frustrating.

Curling fans are almost always willing to adopt newbies and to explain and re-explain everything. And the people on shot rock radio were excellent.

 

[Japanfan]

Well. I'm talking out of my ass here but since Med won the latest Worlds - and she's OAR, then OARs should get 3 ladies spots. Obviously back then she was from Russia, but I suppose some concessions to practicality and Earth logic wil, have to be made. If they're "athletes from Russia" then perhaps top 3 athletes from Russia as determined by Russian Nationals/ ISU World Standings/ISU Season Standings? (Personally and selfishly, I'm kinda hoping for World Standings because then Pogo would get to go, even though I'd have to suffer through Sotskova for sure).

It would seem logical that spots wouldn't be determined by OARs, because spots are for a country.

 

[Vagabond]

Well. I'm talking out of my ass here but since Med won the latest Worlds - and she's OAR, then OARs should get 3 ladies spots. Obviously back then she was from Russia, but I suppose some concessions to practicality and Earth logic wil, have to be made. If they're "athletes from Russia" then perhaps top 3 athletes from Russia as determined by Russian Nationals/ ISU World Standings/ISU Season Standings? (Personally and selfishly, I'm kinda hoping for World Standings because then Pogo would get to go, even though I'd have to suffer through Sotskova for sure).

I'm lobbying for applying #TTW standards, which would dictate spots for Leonova, Sakhanovich, and Fedichkina, with spots in the Men's competition for Aliyev and Voronov.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Of course they are happy to compete against Russian skaters that are demoralized, embarrassed, and very likely booed by the fans at the Olympics. If the GPF was anywhere outside of Japan, same thing could have happened but the Japanese are classy people.

Please take a valium.

It is clear Russians got off easy,they should not be competing in the Olympics. Outrageous decision!

-BB

 

[Japanfan]

Of course they are happy to compete against Russian skaters that are demoralized, embarrassed, and very likely booed by the fans at the Olympics. If the GPF was anywhere outside of Japan, same thing could have happened but the Japanese are classy people.

I don't think fans at the Olympics will boo Russian skaters, Vash01. Or I guess I should say skaters/athletes from Russia.

At least I hope that people aren't that mean spirited, as these skaters and other athletes haven't themselves done anything wrong.

 

[bbkenn]

Did you guys see this? US Athletes may be pulled from Olympics too?

https://twitter.com/marthamaccallum/status/938562978747748352

 

[Lanie]

Sounds like what everyone else has been saying--depending on the situation with NK. I doubt anything will happen. Things will go ahead.

 

[Coquelicot14]

Yes, the US has dopers, but Australia has their own as well. As does the UK. As does France. As does South Africa. As does Japan. As does China. As does Canada. There are literally no countries without athletes found to be doping. This does not mean they should be banned.

But, somehow the only country that gets banned is Russia. And don't give me that nonsence about the medical conditions. Sorry, I would have bought it, but then again Lence Armstrong.... don't tell me this whole thing is anything but politically motivated.

 

[IceAlisa]

But, somehow the only country that gets banned is Russia. And don't give me that nonsence about the medical conditions. Sorry, I would have bought it, but then again Lence Armstrong.... don't tell me this whole thing is anything but politically motivated.

You should educate yourself about the difference between drugs like anti-inflammatory and anabolic steroids. Then get self-righteous. What about Armstrong? He was disgraced, as is Russia.

 

[Coquelicot14]

You should educate yourself about the difference about drugs like anti-inflammatory and anabolic steroids. Then get self-righteous. What about Armstrong? He was disgraced, as is Russia.

Well, Armstrong used one drug to mask the other, why wouldn't others. Could easily be the case with others. But that's not going to be investigated is it?

 

[VGThuy]

Yeah last time I checked, Lance Armstrong's career was ruined.

Well, Armstrong used one drug to mask the other, why wouldn't others. Could easily be the case with others. But that's not going to be investigated is it?

This is why new drug tests are updated/created and new drugs are added to the banned list like drugs used to mask other drugs. I mean really, this is basic and covered a million times in this thread and all related threads on this forum.

 

[IceAlisa]

Well, Armstrong used one drug to mask the other, why wouldn't others. Could easily be the case with others. But that's not going to be investigated is it?

Cry me a river. This everyone-hates-us-it's-so-unfair song and dance is really tired. Even Putin isn't singing it. When there's a similar mountain of evidence against other state-sponsored doping, get back to us.

For the Russian speakers who are old enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59tu9QsKBEI

 

[VGThuy]

Cry me a river. This everyone-hates-us-it's-so-unfair song and dance is really tired. Even Putin isn't singing it. When there's a similar mountain of evidence against other state-sponsored doping, get back to us.

It is seriously tired. It's like people don't read posts in this thread or every other thread related to this that have already covered this and spoke about the very things certain people are using to deflect from the state-sponsored doping that nobody is denying anymore.

And of course it's political. When a state in involved with interfering with drug tests, the STATE gets implicated and if the evidence is there, then the STATE gets punished. When you are dealing with the state, it's political. When you have a competition every four years (or two) where athletes compete on teams created by geo-political boundaries, it's already political. When you have a Cold War being fought by super powers and their blocs through that same competition, it's already political. So no more boo-hooing about how politics is getting involved. How do you think this whole thing is being run? Who runs the world and decides which of our actions is ok and which gets us in trouble? Politicians.

Anyway, it's all really that simple. I feel like there's a real comprehension issue going on or willful ignorance or poor attempts to paint new enemies without even trying to defend what Russia did here. Notice how none of the deflecting tactics actually address the Russia improperly interfering with the drug tests and drugging athletes situation. It's like if they don't talk about it or mention it, then we'll all just forget about it. It's all let me spout some ignorance about medical conditions even though I obviously did not go medical school for this or studied psychology and psychiatry to understand how mental illness and conditions work, TUES, USA, how Russia is a victim of a concerted Western attack, and poor athletes who still get to compete anyway without actually recognizing that the IOC could not ignore the evidence any longer. Not even Putin and others are denying it anymore. That's the real issue and stop with the BS and admit that you think what Russia did is OK which means you don't even care about fair play (but of course nobody wants to admit that) because you care more about politicizing this even further and creating an "us v. them" narrative, are biased towards Russian athletes and think every little thing will hurt them, hate certain countries and their athletes, or all of the above.

 

[caseyedwards]

If Russia had just done everything it was told it wouldn’t have been banned!

1. Open close cities to doping officials no questions asked
2. Admit everything
3. Fire anyone Mclaren says
4. Recognize rodchenkov as hero
5. Recognize Stepanovs as heroes
6. Enforce bans on coaches
7. Test more frequently
8. Make every athlete sign anti doping pledge
9. Ban “Russia is being persecuted” comments Russia was ordered to remove “Russia is being persecuted” isanbayeva and it took months!
10. PRIVATIZE SPORTS! Why is there government involvement in everything? Why is deputy pm head of soccer? Stop all the interference!

 

[IceAlisa]

If Russia had just done everything it was told it wouldn’t have been banned!

1. Open close cities to doping officials no questions asked
2. Admit everything
3. Fire anyone Mclaren says
4. Recognize rodchenkov as hero
5. Recognize Stepanovs as heroes
6. Enforce bans on coaches
7. Test more frequently
8. Make every athlete sign anti doping pledge
9. Ban “Russia is being persecuted” comments Russia was ordered to remove “Russia is being persecuted” isanbayeva and it took months!
10. PRIVATIZE SPORTS! Why is there government involvement in everything? Why is deputy pm head of soccer? Stop all the interference!

11. Start caseyedwards on anti-anxiety medication

 

[Coquelicot14]

Cry me a river. This everyone-hates-us-it's-so-unfair song and dance is really tired. Even Putin isn't singing it. When there's a similar mountain of evidence against other state-sponsored doping, get back to us.

Get back to me when clean athletes from other countries are forbidden to perform under their own flag. How about when that much resources are thrown to "investigate" the other countries' dopers. I hardly think the prominent dopers such as Lence acted alone or with a small group, unbeknownst to all.

 

[IceAlisa]

Get back to me when clean athletes from other countries are forbidden to perform under their own flag. How about when that much resources are thrown to "investigate" the other countries' dopers. I hardly think the prominent dopers such as Lence acted alone or with a small group, unbeknownst to all.

It's Lance with an "a." No one cares what you hardly think. Provide evidence.